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New video about the terrain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT2hLlCj5z4 Key points I took from it: - it pretty - you can name some features if you're the first to find them - control of natural wonders/landmarks will be quite important for your economy - it pretty - a few more different biomes than what you get in Civ. Taiga and savanna for example - from one screen that flashed by, it looks like each tile will have only one yield type. Not sure how I feel about that
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Feb 20, 2020 18:45
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webmeister posted:Yes, but it also works such that for each era or age you play as a new culture, while retaining the bonuses and abilities from all previous cultures you’ve played. So you could pick a couple of early food/economy cultures and aim to crush your enemies in the mid game with a military culture. Or just go straight diplomatic with every pick. This sounds like something that cannot possibly be balanced, at all.
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Feb 20, 2020 18:47
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Cythereal posted:This sounds like something that cannot possibly be balanced, at all. It won't be. The optimal path of cultures to take will be solved pretty quickly, I think.
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Feb 20, 2020 19:09
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:New video about the terrain. Geysers seem to give both industry and science while rivers give industry and food.
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Feb 20, 2020 19:25
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That video also indicates that they've got a province system similar to Endless Legend, predefined areas to be settled in. There's a nice clear shot of it around 2:35.
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Feb 20, 2020 22:07
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Det_no posted:Geysers seem to give both industry and science while rivers give industry and food. Oh! Yeah, you're right, I thought those were separate tiles. I must say I find the FIDSI overlay in Endless Legend way more difficult to read than the yield overlay in Civ5/6. Krazyface posted:That video also indicates that they've got a province system similar to Endless Legend, predefined areas to be settled in. There's a nice clear shot of it around 2:35. Yeeeeeaah I'm really not a fan of this. The provinces barely make sense and you can end up with some really ribbony ones. It also seems so much more restrictive than Civ's plonk-cities-anywhere approach.
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Feb 20, 2020 23:29
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Krazyface posted:That video also indicates that they've got a province system similar to Endless Legend, predefined areas to be settled in. There's a nice clear shot of it around 2:35. Lame.
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Feb 20, 2020 23:32
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Yeeeeeaah I'm really not a fan of this. The provinces barely make sense and you can end up with some really ribbony ones. It also seems so much more restrictive than Civ's plonk-cities-anywhere approach. This right here is why I eventually stopped playing EL. It's super annoying to random into a lovely zone and have neighboring zones also have bad yields. I really disliked that system for expansion.
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Feb 21, 2020 00:10
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I've never minded it. It makes the AI spread their cities out sensibly, I guess. Anyway, it's nice to see the game's using small tiles; all those zoomed-in screenshots made me think they were going for a scale more like Civ V.
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Feb 21, 2020 00:25
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The region system in EL never bothered me much. It's a decent answer to many AI problems. And it allows for armies in the field instead of 100% of battles being sieges.
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Feb 21, 2020 01:45
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endless legend was the best civ game anyone has made in like two decades so this should be good
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Feb 21, 2020 02:21
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:New video about the terrain. There's a little more information here as well: https://www.games2gether.com/amplitude-studios/humankind/blogs/722-humankind-feature-focus-02-reimagining-terrain?page=1
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Feb 21, 2020 03:57
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The only input I have to give here is that those cities sure look good!
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Feb 24, 2020 19:32
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Map looks gorgeous, but worried about few things: Tactical combat - On Endless Legend it was a chore and here it looks to have the same tiny battlefield that doesnt give room for manouver. Good to have autoresolve.. Different civs for every era - Looks good on paper, but I like how in Civilization you stick to the civ you choose and it's unique abilities that might be better in certain eras. And I dont want to wait for medieval(?) or industrial era to play as England for example.. I got bored of Endless Legend and it's a.i. pretty soon but I'm cautiously looking forward to HS. I just hope it doesn't feel too stripped down after being used to Civ 6 and 5 mechanics.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:31
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The Human Crouton posted:It won't be. The optimal path of cultures to take will be solved pretty quickly, I think. I hope not. One of the benefits to this not being made by the Civ folks is the hope that actual balance passes and effort will be put into this.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:49
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Beamed posted:I hope not. One of the benefits to this not being made by the Civ folks is the hope that actual balance passes and effort will be put into this. It's reaching Beyond Earth levels of "Customize your civ however you want! Win however you want, whenever you want! You can win in the middle ages, or in the space age, or in the classic age!" poo poo. And no, that is not going to be balanced by any realistic means. The more options you give players, the more likely it is that some of them will be clearly better than others and the more likely that people are going to figure out how to optimally play the game within hours of release.
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Feb 24, 2020 20:56
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amplitude is terrible at balance so im not expecting anything
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Feb 24, 2020 20:56
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Good balance in a situation like this revolves around identifying several "winning combos" and making sure THOSE are competitive at even the highest levels, rather than trying to make every option balanced. You just want to avoid one single dominant strategy, you don't have to account for every possibility.
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Feb 24, 2020 21:55
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Cythereal posted:This sounds like something that cannot possibly be balanced, at all. Correct, it is an Amplitude game.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:15
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Chomp8645 posted:Correct, it is an Amplitude game. I haven't played enough Amplitude games to know.  Bounced pretty hard off Endless Legend, and Endless Space wasn't much better. Pretty looking games that completely baffled me as to how to actually play them, so never bought any of the expansions or DLC.
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Feb 24, 2020 22:38
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If I wanted to try one of their games, would people recommend Space or Legends as a better jumping in point?
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Feb 25, 2020 01:48
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GlyphGryph posted:If I wanted to try one of their games, would people recommend Space or Legends as a better jumping in point?
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Feb 25, 2020 01:54
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GlyphGryph posted:If I wanted to try one of their games, would people recommend Space or Legends as a better jumping in point? I'd say Legends. The opponents hit you in the face a bit faster and force you to learn the mechanics a bit. Space let's you dick around for so long before anything matters that you can't be sure if you're playing the game correctly or not.
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Feb 25, 2020 01:56
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Legends will also be much more relatable to what end result Humankind ends up being than Space, I’m expecting this to basically be Legends but with a giant coating of Civ palettes.
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Feb 25, 2020 02:01
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...Hold up, the Zhou's bonus building is...Confucius? He very specifically doesn't show up until after the Zhou collapse! Geez! Geez!
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Feb 25, 2020 05:50
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ProfessorCirno posted:...Hold up, the Zhou's bonus building is...Confucius? The Zhou were still around! Technically!
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Feb 25, 2020 07:37
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I think if I want them to change one thing, it would be the happiness system. Probably they won't, but playing the harder AI levels in Endless Space/Legends just feels terrible because the AI expand like viruses and blow through their city/colony cap like 5x over picking every garbage tile/planet in sight, while you have to actually be selective in your approach.
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Feb 25, 2020 11:34
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To be honest, I don't understand why balance is ever an issue in a single player game in which you can choose your own difficulty level. It can be fun to play as a country/character/whatever that you know is (supposed to be) less strong, just like it can be fun to give yourself an extra challenge by increasing the AI bonusses.
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Feb 25, 2020 13:00
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Walh Hara posted:To be honest, I don't understand why balance is ever an issue in a single player game in which you can choose your own difficulty level. It can be fun to play as a country/character/whatever that you know is (supposed to be) less strong, just like it can be fun to give yourself an extra challenge by increasing the AI bonusses. Two factors, only one of which actually applies here: 1. Gamers have no self-control. (This is the one that doesn't apply.) 2. Games like this are symmetric-design; that is, the player and the AIs play by the same rules (with adjustments for shortcomings on the AI's end). Consequently, an imbalance which favours a particular civilisation gives whoever picks it an unfair advantage over someone who picks a different one. or unfairly penalizes the rube who picks it , if the imbalance is the other direction.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:53
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Aerdan posted:Two factors, only one of which actually applies here: Sometimes it's good to make in-game decisions other than 'do i want this game to be harder or easier'.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:07
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Panzeh posted:Sometimes it's good to make in-game decisions other than 'do i want this game to be harder or easier'. I don't think I understand the distinction you're trying to make here, because literally every decision in a game boils down to precisely that.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:11
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Aerdan posted:I don't think I understand the distinction you're trying to make here, because literally every decision in a game boils down to precisely that. "What colour will my character's hair be" "What sort of graphical display will I have" as a general thing.
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Feb 25, 2020 16:12
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:New video about the terrain. The way I'm seeing the terrain system you can quite literally lay an ambush for an army passing through a valley because of how cliffs can have directional movement and sight blocking.
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Feb 25, 2020 16:22
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Jeza posted:I think if I want them to change one thing, it would be the happiness system. Probably they won't, but playing the harder AI levels in Endless Space/Legends just feels terrible because the AI expand like viruses and blow through their city/colony cap like 5x over picking every garbage tile/planet in sight, while you have to actually be selective in your approach. I seem to recall this was a problem in Civ 5 at some point, where AIs had such ridiculous happiness bonuses that they could just spray cities everywhere without a care in the world
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Feb 25, 2020 16:26
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:I seem to recall this was a problem in Civ 5 at some point, where AIs had such ridiculous happiness bonuses that they could just spray cities everywhere without a care in the world Yeah, it feels pie in the sky, but I do hope one day that higher levels of difficulty in big 4x games means that the AI is smarter rather than obscenely handicapped.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:42
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Oh, absolutely. It felt really disappointing that Civ 5 had that really interesting intertwined ideology-happiness-culture system, which the AI totally ignored. I always wanted to see bloated AI empires disintegrating under their own weight- it would have been so much fun to engineer!- but it never really happened.
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Feb 26, 2020 04:44
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Second classical era civ: Carthaginians https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1232342031873298432
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Feb 26, 2020 11:37
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The only way forward for strategy game AI is machine learning - there’s only so much you can code in through decision trees. Consequently, only a few devs are in a position to do this, as it’s kinda tricky to hire this kind of specialist into strategy game dev.
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Feb 26, 2020 12:20
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Mokotow posted:The only way forward for strategy game AI is machine learning - there’s only so much you can code in through decision trees. Consequently, only a few devs are in a position to do this, as it’s kinda tricky to hire this kind of specialist into strategy game dev. I've not been that impressed with the results of machine learning, especially in the context of games as complex as Civ.
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Feb 26, 2020 12:28
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Panzeh posted:I've not been that impressed with the results of machine learning, especially in the context of games as complex as Civ. Have that been tried yet? I vaguely remember some project was going to try it on Civ 5, but I dont know if it ever got done
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Feb 26, 2020 12:37
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