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Tree Bucket posted:There are no ants in Dune. This is weird. Eripsa, is that you?
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Feb 25, 2020 08:01
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priznat posted:Sci fi used to be so horny, what happened?!? the 'moral majority' happened.
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Feb 25, 2020 08:31
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So spice is somehow produced by sequestered water + whatever the sandtrout/sand plankton do to reproduce?
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Feb 25, 2020 09:16
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Heather Papps posted:the ancillary books have a fair amount of horniness. Tree Bucket posted:I honestly have no idea. The puffball idea makes a LOT of sense though, and I don't think I've seen it anywhere before. And it's not like there are only sandworms on Dune - there are other species there, and nowhere is it said that they were brought there, iirc? Ghost Leviathan posted:I got the impression the sandworms are more a case where their various stages of their life cycle are so different they manage to occupy completely different environmental niches. BeanpolePeckerwood posted:the 'moral majority' happened. Vlex posted:So spice is somehow produced by sequestered water + whatever the sandtrout/sand plankton do to reproduce? Sandworms are also responsible for much of the oxygen in the atmosphere, as they vent oxygen along with heat. The inner workings of a sandworm are an absolute mystery, though. EDIT: There is a book called The Science Of Dune which fully admits to being unauthorized and non-canon, but is a fascinating read. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 12:21
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Vlex posted:So spice is somehow produced by sequestered water + whatever the sandtrout/sand plankton do to reproduce? I think all stages of the worm's life cycle produce spice, the blows are just more concentrated. Leto mentions in emperor that water buffered with a poo poo ton of melange is not letal to him, but just water makes his cells freak out and produce spice essence.
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Feb 25, 2020 12:32
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I think it might be flat out said that sandworms are basically an ecosystem in themselves, yeah. And given Arrakis is gradually terraformed to be fully Earthlike over the millennia (and eventually changed back) it doesn't seem surprising it would have supported oceans and lakes if the geography welcomes them. The implication may be that the sandworms evolved under some conditions and ended up taking over the entire planet. (And I think there's some theories both in-universe and out that sandworms may have been deliberately engineered by some unknown creators; they're the only alien life that anyone in Dune talks about) I think Earth wildlife was introduced to Arrakis a long time ago, probably at least starting when the ancestors of the Fremen were put there, and what's survived has integrated into the ecosystem, an analogy not at all lost on the Fremen who are entirely aware of their origins and that they've adapted as their environment demands.
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Feb 25, 2020 13:23
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Also, all this talk about Dune's ecology made me remember the failson came up with the term ultraspice, which led me to the wiki pages of the forbidden books, which led me to the following sentences that I now inflict upon you:Failson posted:Adapting to their new environment, these "seaworms" quickly flourish, eventually producing a highly concentrated form of spice, dubbed "ultraspice". Failson posted:Waff resigns himself to failure and prepares to die; as the last of his sandworm specimens perishes, a dozen sandworms erupt from beneath the surface. Waff realizes that the pearl of Leto II's awareness that each sandworm carries had foreseen the Honored Matre attack on Rakis and buried themselves deep beneath the planet's surface. Failson posted:They are met by a party led by the ghola of Vladimir Harkonnen. Seeing the young ghola of Alia when he arrives, he immediately kills her; the original Alia had murdered his original self 5,000 years before. Failson posted:Victorious, Paolo takes the ultraspice; overwhelmed by the rapid onset of perfect prescient vision, he slips into a coma. Failson posted:When it appears that defeat at the hands of the thinking machine forces is imminent, the Oracle of Time appears with a thousand ships piloted by Guild Navigators and begins to attack the machines. Failson posted:Now that Paul is able to devote all of his attention to her, Chani remarks that he has finally learned how to treat his wife. Dune 8: Anime as gently caress
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Feb 25, 2020 13:52
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That child is an abomination!
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Feb 25, 2020 13:59
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Without thinking about it too hard I gained the impression that the sandtrout's job was to gather water and encapsulate it somehow with a mass of their bodies under the sand and keep doing that until the planet was dry enough for some of them to become worms.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:06
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Bubblyblubber posted:Also, all this talk about Dune's ecology made me remember the failson came up with the term ultraspice, which led me to the wiki pages of the forbidden books, which led me to the following sentences that I now inflict upon you: Rakis 
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Feb 25, 2020 14:28
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yaffle posted:Without thinking about it too hard I gained the impression that the sandtrout's job was to gather water and encapsulate it somehow with a mass of their bodies under the sand and keep doing that until the planet was dry enough for some of them to become worms. leto getting soundtrouted is this, again, i thought. the sandtrout do the water pocket thing, and i wouldn't be surprised if that was the metamorphic stage between trout and worm. like a reverse cocoon where the water catalyzes spice production and whole body integration of separate jellyfish into a manowar, or voltron. the life cycle of crustaceans is like the real world analogue i think. for most of the history of biology scientists were like, "yeah this is a free floating bug thing, this is a crab, we don't even know what this is." and eventually they realized they were looking at one animal over it's life cycle, and that the various stages could be drastically different in both form and function.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:33
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Heather Papps posted:Rakis I'm sure that was already a thing in Heretics or Chapterhouse.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:40
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THE BAR posted:I'm sure that was already a thing in Heretics or Chapterhouse. Heretics, yeah, same planet, different name.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:41
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still don't like it e: in a post apocalyptic setting i like this trope. novac and the like from fallout, or whatever. however, the idea of a planet just... dropping a letter, just cause time? place names don't change gradually, they happen for a reason, and i don't remember getting a good reason for it. maybe if languages change the pronunciation of a place name changes and the spelling would change to reflect it? i don't know. i love frank very much but dude wasn't perfect. just say "rakis" out loud versus "dune" or "arrakis" Heather Papps fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 14:44
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Kis, snappy planet.
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Feb 25, 2020 14:44
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Heather Papps posted:however, the idea of a planet just... dropping a letter, just cause time? place names don't change gradually, they happen for a reason Tell that to Worcester
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Feb 25, 2020 14:56
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The Bloop posted:Tell that to Worcester i am reading about this and there seem to be reasons for the name changes. i am also just justifying a visceral reaction i have to the sound "rakis" when i subvocalize it.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:04
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I think it's a well established phenomenon that human languages drop or merge specific sounds over long enough times in a consistent manner, enough so that specialists claim to have a good idea of what Indo-European would sound like. And since dune is nothing if not a long rear end time between miscellaneous fuckery going abouts, I'd buy that Arrakis looses the vowel over however many thousands of years. Paolo.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:15
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Frank also did it with Geidi Prime and Caladan. It made no sense
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Feb 25, 2020 15:45
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The names of places change. Sometimes they change only a bit as language evolves (Aurelianorum->Orléans), sometimes they change entirely (Lutetia->Paris). Among all the weird poo poo in 5 & 6 it barely registers.
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Feb 25, 2020 16:11
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i just don't like how it sounds. it reminds me of "ronto" which is what some fallout sourcebook says toronto is called post apocalypse. i fully accept there is likely a good in universe reason for the name changes, and caladan being called dan doesn't really bother me at all. also i'm pretty sure that one of the duncan gholas notices how the language has shifted around him when he awakens his memories, maybe? or is it just that he notices he's not a good fighter anymore as directed breeding makes people faster and stronger.
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Feb 25, 2020 16:18
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New Rakkis was Dune, Desert Planet Now it's New Rakkis, not Dune, Desert Planet Why did Dune, Desert Planet get the works? That's nobody's business but this jerk's:  Even spooooky IX was once just Planet 9 Why they changed it I can't say people just liked it better that way
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Feb 25, 2020 16:24
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Heather Papps posted:also i'm pretty sure that one of the duncan gholas notices how the language has shifted around him when he awakens his memories, maybe? or is it just that he notices he's not a good fighter anymore as directed breeding makes people faster and stronger. Ghola Duncan is such a dweeb, his train of thought in Emperor goes "ok what did I miss in these millennia until my ghola awakening oh great huge human worm hybrid, alright, oh he speaks with the voice of my dear friend Paul, neato, hey is this forest thing all over dune the desert planet? far out man ahaha that river's named Idaho, that's like, my name dude, rad WOAH WOAH WOAH HOLD UP MONEO ARE THOSE TWO LADIES KISSING??????" And it takes a superhuman spice infused god to go "jesus christ Duncan chill out let the ladies do their thing the gently caress is wrong with you?", the very same entity that goes "hehehe Imma build a big old donger to shock peeps" In conclusion, Dune is a land of horny contrasts.
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Feb 25, 2020 17:20
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skasion posted:The names of places change. Sometimes they change only a bit as language evolves (Aurelianorum->Orléans), sometimes they change entirely (Lutetia->Paris). Among all the weird poo poo in 5 & 6 it barely registers. That's all true, but how can you go from Geidi Prime to Gammu, which is stupid poop
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Feb 25, 2020 17:48
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Failson is going to read this thread and write another book and in another 5000 years it will be Akis
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Feb 25, 2020 18:18
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I think it might be flat out said that sandworms are basically an ecosystem in themselves, yeah. That is a good paraphrase of everything Liet-Kynes reveals. Anyone trying to make sense of Dune's ecology really needs to stop at the level of "what do the books say" and not try to make sense of it. Frank Herbert made a really cool universe in broad strokes but it really doesn't hold up in fine detail anywhere. Worms are their own parents and food and they also make a poison capable of causing the genocide of their entire species instantaneously and they also manipulate the desert ecology that made themselves possible and (bong rip) it's like what is causality even, man? And yes, the puffball analogy is apt. I just finished Dune again. What happens is that when there's a spice blow most of the sand plankton are murdered, but a small number survive to grow into worms. Worms only eat sand plankton so far as anyone knows, and remember all sand plankton are murdered every time there's a spice blow. So by the time there's enough of them to feed a giant sand worm they all die so no this doesn't make any sense. Jack-Off Lantern posted:That's all true, but how can you go from Geidi Prime to Gammu, which is stupid poop Literally Everything in Dune is how things undergo weird mutations over vast distances and time. Saying the author should be limited to only newspeak like making "Geidi Prime" into "Gepri" or whatever doesn't work. If you just think the name and how it's handled is dumb, I agree, but language evolving in unexpected ways is totally normal. Just look at the history of English. It makes lots of anti-sense all over. Why is it Gammu? I don't know, how did the sandworms evolve to eat themselves for food? That's just how it ended up, man.
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Feb 25, 2020 18:18
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I mean, isn’t it sort of implied that that SOMEBODY probably engineered Sandworms? I think kid Leto II says it to Ghanima at some point.
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Feb 25, 2020 18:41
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Their scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should. Cleanse their passing.
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Feb 25, 2020 18:44
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Joke Miriam posted:I mean, isn’t it sort of implied that that SOMEBODY probably engineered Sandworms? I think kid Leto II says it to Ghanima at some point.
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Feb 25, 2020 18:55
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human centipede scientist guys ultimate goal: poo poo-huma'an, the gross man of the desert
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Feb 25, 2020 18:56
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kiimo posted:Failson is going to read this thread and write another book and in another 5000 years it will be Akis 
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Feb 25, 2020 19:15
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Wrong, it'll be "Kiss" and a hair metal planet
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Feb 25, 2020 19:49
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Paul contemplating the conditions on Salusa Secundus 
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Feb 25, 2020 20:03
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I think it was implied that Geidi Prime was renamed by it's Caladanian settlers, rather than linguistic drift
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Feb 25, 2020 20:58
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exmachina posted:I think it was implied that Geidi Prime was renamed by it's Caladanian settlers, rather than linguistic drift ultimate alpha move: take over your enemies planet, and give it just the dumbest name
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Feb 25, 2020 21:02
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Heather Papps posted:ultimate alpha move: take over your enemies planet, and give it just the dumbest name I mean this poo poo happens all the time. It's Istanbul not Constantinople or Byzantium now for instance. Places changing names over centuries is more common than them not.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:41
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I still love the idea of Galactic culture forgetting that Roman numerals are a thing, and thinking the ninth planet in a system is called Ix.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:55
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Tree Bucket posted:I still love the idea of Galactic culture forgetting that Roman numerals are a thing, and thinking the ninth planet in a system is called Ix. Weirder things have happened in 10,000 years.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:58
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Tree Bucket posted:I still love the idea of Galactic culture forgetting that Roman numerals are a thing, and thinking the ninth planet in a system is called Ix. It doesn't take nearly that long, there's a (tiny) town near me named Clio that began as an unincorporated logging camp next to the tracks. As the 10'th stop on the atlantic coast line RR it was labeled simply "CL10" on the maps and history took its course.
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Feb 25, 2020 22:06
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shame on an IGA posted:It doesn't take nearly that long, there's a (tiny) town near me named Clio that began as an unincorporated logging camp next to the tracks. As the 10'th stop on the atlantic coast line RR it was labeled simply "CL10" on the maps and history took its course. And there's examples of this happening the other way. During World War Two the British crew of the lend-lease tanker Ohio nicknamed her O.H.10.
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Feb 25, 2020 22:12
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