CanPol 2020 - Programmable Hydraulic Guillotines

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol 2020 - Programmable Hydraulic Guillotines

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

infernal machines posted:

Bombardier's problem, at least regarding their rail stuff, was that they just weren't manufacturing it in Canada to begin with. The did some assembly here, and that went poorly for some time.

Yeah, but on the whole Canada doesn't have any major notable corporations that make things. Our R&D spending both private and public is laughable. It's bullshit and FIRE all the way down.

(does someone have HAL's infamous list of "successful" Canadian companies)

less than three fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Feb 25, 2020

# ? Feb 25, 2020 03:41

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 22:59

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

The economy is like 90% scams now

# ? Feb 25, 2020 03:44

Classon Ave. Robot: Oct 7, 2019; by Athanatos

Manufacturing doesn't fit in in a country where people are supposed to have human rights. You can degrade the working conditions of people as much as you want, you can destroy the middle class and the last vestiges of workers rights, but you'll never ever compete with the prices that slaves in China or Bangladesh can offer. Especially so when your country's values demand that any possible profit must be directed to the investors and corporate management rather than the workers.

Guess global capitalism isn't meant to serve the interests of the working people who actually live in any given country. Who coulda guessed? Fake bullshit FIRE economics serve the interests of capital just fine, no need for a real economy.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 03:46

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

less than three posted:

(does someone have HAL's infamous list of "successful" Canadian companies)

That was absolute gold, if only for the number of them that had outright gone under or were in the process of going under at the time he posted it.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 03:49

half cocaine: Jul 22, 2019

Classon Ave. Robot posted:

Manufacturing doesn't fit in in a country where people are supposed to have human rights. You can degrade the working conditions of people as much as you want, you can destroy the middle class and the last vestiges of workers rights, but you'll never ever compete with the prices that slaves in China or Bangladesh can offer. Especially so when your country's values demand that any possible profit must be directed to the investors and corporate management rather than the workers.

Guess global capitalism isn't meant to serve the interests of the working people who actually live in any given country. Who coulda guessed? Fake bullshit FIRE economics serve the interests of capital just fine, no need for a real economy.

What about Germany?

# ? Feb 25, 2020 03:49

Classon Ave. Robot: Oct 7, 2019; by Athanatos

Yeah it's weird how a country where housing is a given and unions are powerful and respected can do things that this pathetic country can't. I just can't figure it out.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 03:58

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

Baronjutter posted:

I was going over some investment poo poo the other day and asked to avoid Canadian investments as much as possible. She asked why, like that was a very strange request, "many clients specifically ask for mostly Canadian investments!" and I told her I had zero faith in the long term for the Canadian economy. She was surprised and showed me a chart of how various Canadian index funds and poo poo did over the last 15 years. Yes there's up and down but look, it's overall good! I explained that in my opinion our economy is totally unsustainable. No one wants our garbage tar, our manufacturing is dead, natural gas is at rock bottom prices world wide, what do we have? Housing? She told me "ah well good news, they're lowering the stress test! That'll help the housing sector!"

Lot of words when you could have just pulled this up on your phone, using their own app, subbing in for their flavour of TSX ETF. Or their TSX mutual fund, which is what you were most likely being pitched and would have an even more lol-worthy comparison when the fees are factored in.

Also keep in mind that unless you are dealing with a very significant sum in your investment accounts (I'd say at least a mil or two minimum), there is no reason to be allowing the low level bank people, who work on commission and sell what they are directed too, to manage them for you. You're throwing money away.

It's literally free to do yourself. Everyone go read the BFC Canadian Finance thread. Unless you do it yourself or love fighting with sales people for no reason, you are just wasting money.

The Butcher fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Feb 25, 2020

# ? Feb 25, 2020 04:01

Coxswain Balls: Jun 4, 2001

I think New Flyer makes something like half the buses in North America, and MacDon makes agricultural equipment that gets shipped worldwide. I know they send stuff out to Russia because the plane people here get excited whenever those bigass Antonovs show up at the airport to pick up machinery from them.

Manufacturing here seems possible, but it's not going to happen for things at the consumer level until everyone starts getting paid more and people become okay with purchasing the more expensive option because it's not made with slave labour. Both of which seem pretty unlikely in the near future.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 04:03

half cocaine: Jul 22, 2019

Isn't Toronto a smart AI city? Maybe we can export it too.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 04:05

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

less than three posted:

Even Bombardier for all their faults is now being dismantled. Canada doesn't produce anything of value any more and I don't know what the solution is.

We can blame Boeing and American corruption for that one. Airbus is doing just fine and dandy thanks to Bombardiers R&D spending. We can similarly look at how Huawei stole all of Nortels 4G & 5G tech, or the demise of our nuclear reactor program, and conclude that Canada has a long history of solid manufacturing and advanced research - which is thoroughly sabotaged by our government at all levels being a bunch of bootlicking milksops.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 04:14

cougar cub: Jun 28, 2004

The Butcher posted:

Also keep in mind that unless you are dealing with a very significant sum in your investment accounts (I'd say at least a mil or two minimum), there is no reason to be allowing the low level bank people, who work on commission and sell what they are directed too, to manage them for you. You're throwing money away.

It's literally free to do yourself. Everyone go read the BFC Canadian Finance thread. Unless you do it yourself or love fighting with sales people for no reason, you are just wasting money.

Truth. As well, the Canadian Couch Potato website outlines all the steps needed to setup and manage your investment accounts. It's super easy.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 04:19

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Rime posted:

how Huawei stole all of Nortels 4G & 5G tech

Lol whut?

Don't get me wrong, I know Nortel was hacked for like a decade by presumably Chinese interests, it's just what decade that was.

infernal machines fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Feb 25, 2020

# ? Feb 25, 2020 04:19

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

Yeah they hacked Nortel and Cisco, but it allowed them to catch up it was nowhere near the 4g/5g era but yes Huawei's stealing of trade secrets contributed to the downfall of Nortel.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 04:30

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

Coxswain Balls posted:

I think New Flyer makes something like half the buses in North America, and MacDon makes agricultural equipment that gets shipped worldwide. I know they send stuff out to Russia because the plane people here get excited whenever those bigass Antonovs show up at the airport to pick up machinery from them.

Manufacturing here seems possible, but it's not going to happen for things at the consumer level until everyone starts getting paid more and people become okay with purchasing the more expensive option because it's not made with slave labour. Both of which seem pretty unlikely in the near future.

Winnipeg's in somewhat of a unique place for manufacturing because it's +35 in the summer and cold as loving Siberia during the winter so it's an easy place to test for cold weather while still having access to a Western city's industrial space

TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Feb 25, 2020

# ? Feb 25, 2020 04:33

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

less than three posted:

Yeah they hacked Nortel and Cisco, but it allowed them to catch up it was nowhere near the 4g/5g era but yes Huawei's stealing of trade secrets contributed to the downfall of Nortel.

Nortel had "4g" adjacent patents, I don't think 5g was even on the horizon by the time they went under completely. They were being parted out by vultures 11 years ago. It contributed to their downfall in much the same way rust contributed to the sinking of the Titanic. They were on the ropes around the time the hack happened.

infernal machines fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Feb 25, 2020

# ? Feb 25, 2020 04:34

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

New Flyer and Nova Bus is a rare success story where a Canadian duopoly manages to secure a manufacturing domination in an industry on the continent.

less than three fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Feb 25, 2020

# ? Feb 25, 2020 04:35

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

Classon Ave. Robot posted:

Yeah it's weird how a country where housing is a given and unions are powerful and respected can do things that this pathetic country can't. I just can't figure it out.

The manufacturing industry has a skilled labour shortage and also complains that wages are too high and fights any unionization. Hmmm

# ? Feb 25, 2020 05:15

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

New Flyer is going to move the majority of their manufacturing to the states in the next five years

# ? Feb 25, 2020 05:46

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

DariusLikewise posted:

New Flyer is going to move the majority of their manufacturing to the states in the next five years

This is the actual reason Canada can't get anything of worth off of the ground and as long as the US is to the south it's never going to stop

# ? Feb 25, 2020 06:04

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

DariusLikewise posted:

New Flyer is going to move the majority of their manufacturing to the states in the next five years

It's okay by being based in Quebec Nova Bus will become the new Bombardier receiving endless bailouts. :eng99:

# ? Feb 25, 2020 06:14

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

DariusLikewise posted:

New Flyer is going to move the majority of their manufacturing to the states in the next five years

Isn't this because of the Buy America Provision Law that also lead to an A320/A220 factory in Mobile, AL.

But yeah for a while Vancouver's new buses are slightly built in Canada, sent down to USA to be completed and then driven back over.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 06:23

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

infernal machines posted:

That was absolute gold, if only for the number of them that had outright gone under or were in the process of going under at the time he posted it.

it's the closest thing CanPol ever got to the grover iraq war post

# ? Feb 25, 2020 06:31

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

I sadly lost the image on my last dead HDD (yes yes, backups) but I actually did a test portfolio on it and it was somewhere to like 60-70% loss over anywhere from a 5-10 year period.

You'd have done much better with even a TSX full index fund than those specific picks.

If anyone still has the post in question I can make a fresh really snazzy graph of the dumbest thing you could have possibly done with your money.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 07:14

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

This one?

Hal_2005 posted:

I too laughed at Nortel. Thread has def taken a turn into the surreal. Must be those ultra low rates on home loans goons must be tripping over themselves to take out to buy that 2-bed in Markham.

Can you remember any premier made in Canada products similar to BMW, Iphone or Google

Sure
- Pulse Seismic
- Medtronic DES stimulator
- Open Text
- ATI
- Corelle (and AIM instant messenger)
- Lotus 1-2-3
- Blackberry and SSH server systems
- Magellan Aerospace and half of the SpaceX parts
- Magna automotives, makers of nearly 50% of your mincome second hand Honda and GM poo poo-can compact.
- CGI, proud maker of 80% of the world's internet systems for forward facing gov & mainframes
- Precision drilling; most advanced oil rigs on the planet, no joke.
- Bioware
- Miranda
- Palantir (the master algos were built at Waterloo)
- padd drilling; google it.
- ganong
- cott beverage
- highliner fish products
- Ford escape and about 80% of Ford's R&D programs dating back to the Shelby push at Windsor special projects, including AWD and disc brakes
- Hatch engineering, the only company who you legitimately call when Bechtel or Haliburton fucks something up
- SNC
- lululemmon
- Canaccord
- Scotiabank, largest bank in Latin America by deposits and second largest bank in the entire latinos including mexico
- TD bank, second largest bank now in the US behind JP Morgan
- Manulife, one of the worlds largest underwriters of global risk next to Lloyds of London
- Power corp. If you dont know who the hell these guys are, I cant help you
- McCain french fries; legitimate good PEI oligarchs.
- Boardwalk. Again, if you dont know a gently caress about the largest commercial property manager in the world, I wonder how qualified you are to even post.
- Baurer
- Maple Leaf Foods
- Rexall
- Aliment Couche Tard; the largest kiosk and convenience store owner by footprint next to CVS Healthcare (yes, bigger than 7/11 now you sperglord)
- Bombardier: proud maker of useless make work projects for the redneck trash of Quebec, and giving Casse de Depot grey hairs since 1998. Worst trust fund kiddies on the planet, and that's including Oracle's estate fund.
- Saputo. Largest dairy maker in the public stock world. You cheese eating neckbeards literally consume 3 of their products every day, and the fact you have no clue they even exist is both the funniest thing I have read all week, and the most pathetic.
- Tim Hortons. You laugh, but then again, so did the shareholders who tendered their shares of Burgerking. More indians know what the hell a double double is according to the last trade mission than who barack obama was. Think on that while working your mincome job at Canadian Tire tomorrow.
- Globe & Mail. You laugh at this one, but nearly every editor from John at The Economist to half of Gawker got their start in that shithole. In journalism, Canadian free press and the publishing houses that are now Southham (old Hollinger) are tier one training centers & bull pens for aspiring editors and journalists.
- CP Rail. Want to know who literally moves 40% of the USA finished goods? from your fleshlight to the mountain dew you purchased at wallmart last week? A fat sperglord named Hunter accepts thank you pizzas. He really does too.
- Valiant Pharmaceuticals. I really hope I dont need to explain this one to goons.
- Princess Margaret Cancer Center: Your head would explode if you knew which celeb's, dictators and nearly everyone who the world would write an obituary on, if they died elect to get treated at The Princess vs. Hopkins or Harvard Med. U of T has the top program for emergency booking/100% treatment rates in the OECD for both neurology and onco.
- Onyx Corp. Gerald W. Schwartz. The joke of 'the Schwartz be with you?' its about this guy and how he and Frank Guistra nearly built Canada a entertainment industry.
- Lionsgate. Frank Guistra and Peter Brown. American Psycho is so close to 1980's mining industry reality, your head would again, explode.
- Barrack. Peter Munk.
- The NHL. You laugh about this one, but there is only 2 profitable sports in the world, hockey and F1. While total attendance is way behind FIFA and NBA viewership, a NHL franchise stake is one of the most coveted and lucrative deals in sports finance, with exception to the recent tech bubble bidding up of NBA stakes for marquee teams like the Clippers.

Now lets get to the oft hated energy sector:

- Encana. Second largest natural gas producer in North America, 4th largest natural gas entity in the world. Yes, neckbeard thats 1 behind the much feared Gazprom.
- Cenovus, also known as the brains behind ConocoPhillips.
- Imperial Oil. Straight up known in Exxon Mobil as the training center for Exxon CEO's.
- Calfrac, next to Halliburton the largest and most regarded frac sand manager/completions specialist in the world. Yes, the saudi family personally asks them to come fix their wells for them, along with Precision Drilling. On a first name basis after Halliburton botched Gwar in 2005.
- Paramount Conglomerate.
- CNQ. Because Koch doesn't drill 50% of the US's global crude imports and that crude has to come from somewhere. Ditto all those plastic keyboard parts filled with cheetos dust.
- BP Canada. Now known as that piece of a joke called Talisman. Once upon a time, known as the place which discovered about 38% of the worlds hydrocarbons since 1985. Yes this includes most of the North Sea (Buzzard), the Moray Firth, lake Chad, Ethiopia's Rift basin, the Yemeni Grabbens, and pretty much the entire Java/Indochina basin (now known as Petronas when they nationalized it).
- Niko Exploration. Before Doc ran it into the ground, it was one of the largest discoveries of natural gas in Indian history, it also bailed out the richest family in India, twice. The current Indian "miracle"? due to cheap energy? Thank a furniture salesman from Estavan and a Croatian-Canadian geologist who owed him on a land deal.
- Waterous/Tristone/First Energy. Fun Fact, over 60% of the worlds Asset and Divestiture deals, where oil companies trade their land and production like you trade counterstrike skins? two groups of 28 nerds do that. That may not seem too impressive to your little nerdy worldview, but lets think about that for a moment. Every deal, from Talisman's sale to Repsol to the sale of a natural gas compressor likely went through that office, go get audited and sealed, and valued by every company in the world. Including Citgo.
- Sproule / GLJ Associates: Like the world A&D clearing house, Canada is like Zurich for oil reserve auditing. Yes, even the world bank, when they need to be 100% sure Russia or Argentina is not cooking their reserve books before they offer a bail out package, they call up Calgary. Want to know why Canada seems to punch above its weight in the G7? Its because when it comes to the worlds arguably most important audit, how much energy do you have in the "tank", Canada literally is the auditors seal.

Hope that post gave you a deep drive into Canadian corporate iconic brands. If you want to learn more, I suggest getting educated. Its hard, but way easier on everyone than posting ignorant comments about Nortel. Which was a great example of everything wrong with Ontario and Ontario based liberal corporate governance. John Manley alone is proof of this.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 08:44

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

That's the beaut, thanks. Chart time tomorrow.

Prepare to weep at your missed opportunities.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 09:46

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

You laugh at this one

# ? Feb 25, 2020 13:36

MA-Horus: Dec 3, 2006; I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

There's still quite a bit of manufacturing done in Canada, quite a bit of it is pretty sexy low-volume stuff. Honda and Toyota have massive plants in Alliston and Cambridge that tend to be among their highest-efficiency plants. Harris L3 is based out of Burlington, they make optics for everything from traffic choppers to drones to satellites. Collins Aerospace manufactures landing gear components for airbus and boeing. Husky in Bolton is without question the world leader in PET injection molding.

So yeah the days of Canada making washing machines and transistor radios are gone but a whole lot of very specialized, high technology work is still one here, and much of that is for a simple reason;
Anything made in a Chinese factory will have it's IP copied almost immediately. This is a well known fact in the manufacturing world.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 15:15

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Looks like they're starting small with the GO rail blockades

infernal machines fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Feb 25, 2020

# ? Feb 25, 2020 15:19

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Imagine if they occupied union station. Like the entire thing. Trains, bus, subway. It'd completely shut down the GTA.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 15:27

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Another Canadian biz sold, two bite brownies company sold to US co for $1.2billion

Godspeed lil brownies

# ? Feb 25, 2020 16:07

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

priznat posted:

Another Canadian biz sold, two bite brownies company sold to US co for $1.2billion

Godspeed lil brownies

You missed the important second bite:

quote:

...from its current owners, a Boston-based private equity group called Thomas H. Lee Partners.

It seems to be accepted wisdom that selling out good national champions to foreign ownership is a terrible calamity that results in offshoring, headquarters relocation and so on, but is there actually credible research showing that?

# ? Feb 25, 2020 16:29

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Oh dang I had just heard on the radio �toronto based � and found a link.

I had no idea they were canadian at all they are just something lazy people bring to potlucks.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 16:31

Starks: Sep 24, 2006

eXXon posted:

You missed the important second bite:

It seems to be accepted wisdom that selling out good national champions to foreign ownership is a terrible calamity that results in offshoring, headquarters relocation and so on, but is there actually credible research showing that?

Canadian and American investors constantly flip each other�s companies and freaking out over �the americans are buying our national treasures!� is boomer poo poo. They are constantly trading execs too and being owned by Bain is no worse than being owned by Onex. They�re all vultures.

Also when you look at the numbers Americans invest a lot more per capita in Canada than we do in the United States

# ? Feb 25, 2020 16:53

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; I stumbled ass-backwards into a comfortable, easy life for reasons beyond my comprehension and now I think I'm better than you for it.

https://twitter.com/stevenmazie/status/1232323002739691522

Cool and good that these guys carry weapons on Canadian soil

# ? Feb 25, 2020 17:38

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

If all goes well maybe I'll start up a tax free savings account sometimes in a year or so.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 18:17

Lassitude: Oct 21, 2003

Another Bill posted:

https://twitter.com/stevenmazie/status/1232323002739691522

Cool and good that these guys carry weapons on Canadian soil

Always fun to be adjacent to a fascist country.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 18:28

CRISPYBABY: Dec 15, 2007; by Reene

My entire (very small, started in July) TFSA currently is 1/3 a Canadian index, 1/3 SP500, 1/3 a non-NA index. I mostly just have the Canadian stuff on the assumption that it'd take the edge off of any weird currency fluctuations, but it's certainly the part that I value to the least. I definitely just kinda tossed it in there as a 'well I guess I should have something Canadian cause I live here, right?' thing.

There's probably a more optimal balance but I try to put as little effort into thinking about this stuff as possible, other than not doing anything too dumb. And it's pretty hard to gently caress things up on year 1 of a 40 year timeline, it'd be different if I was looking to raid it in the coming years.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 18:32

DrBox: Jul 3, 2004; Sombody call the doctor?

MA-Horus posted:

There's still quite a bit of manufacturing done in Canada, quite a bit of it is pretty sexy low-volume stuff. Honda and Toyota have massive plants in Alliston and Cambridge that tend to be among their highest-efficiency plants. Harris L3 is based out of Burlington, they make optics for everything from traffic choppers to drones to satellites. Collins Aerospace manufactures landing gear components for airbus and boeing. Husky in Bolton is without question the world leader in PET injection molding.

So yeah the days of Canada making washing machines and transistor radios are gone but a whole lot of very specialized, high technology work is still one here, and much of that is for a simple reason;
Anything made in a Chinese factory will have it's IP copied almost immediately. This is a well known fact in the manufacturing world.

Yeah I thought the whole "manufacturing is dead in North America" idea was a misrepresentation. Manufacturing is up, it's just done with less people on the assembly line due to automation. I'm not sure how that impacts the total number of people employed though in that sector. Trying to find manufacturing sector numbers on the Stats Can website on my phone sucks.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 19:28

Indolent Bastard: Oct 26, 2007; I WON THIS AMAZING AVATAR! I'M A WINNER! WOOOOO!

How we haven't done better leveraging weed tourism is beyond me.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 19:42

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# ? Jun 12, 2024 22:59

CRISPYBABY: Dec 15, 2007; by Reene

Tourists need functioning stores and cafes. We've got....uh, randomly situated, poorly stocked, overpriced stores across Ontario. Nailed it.

# ? Feb 25, 2020 19:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol 2020 - Programmable Hydraulic Guillotines

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