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Booley posted:Hopefully simple question here, I need to replace my hot water heater (it's getting on 15 years old and isn't working as well as it used to), and while the on/out lines are flexible the pressure relief (I think) line is hard PVC. Do I need to try to find something else exactly the same size, replace it with new PVC, or can I use some sort of flex line there? What jurisdiction is this? Because that looks really very much not to code.
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Feb 25, 2020 06:43
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Motronic posted:What jurisdiction is this? Because that looks really very much not to code. Seattle, WA
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Feb 25, 2020 06:55
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Booley posted:Seattle, WA Just doing a quick google check: https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=51-56&full=true#51-56-0500 quote:608.5Discharge Piping. The discharge piping serving a temperature relief valve, pressure relief valve or combination of both shall have no valves, obstructions or means of isolation and be provided with the following: Not sure any potentially referenced code or sane inspector would pass that based on the written text. Should have been down into a properly sized pan with an air gap.....i.e. pipe pointed at the pan. But jurisdictions are weird and what do I know other than my former one several years ago. Motronic fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 07:08
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I was assuming it went outside or similar and air gapped there. I don’t think that wording requires the air gap be in any particular proximity to the relief valve itself, and really only specifies that the pipe be non-blockable, and then some specs for the air gap itself. But yeah, it’d certainly depend on the inspector and possibly the weather and time of day. e: The most questionable bit I’d say is the “pointing down” bit, but it’s not clear if that means the entire discharge pipe has to be pointing down...which in this case would be literally impossible since the relief valve is on top of the unit. At best it could be sloped at least until it clears the tank. I’ve always seen units with the relief on the side, actually, in which case a strict “pointing down” option makes sense. I dunno. I hear inspectors love it when people try to rules-lawyer them 
Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 14:52
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Motronic posted:Just doing a quick google check: Your interpretation of this is incorrect and I only know this because I made the same assumption. The air gap can be on the outside where it terminates into a discharge pipe or along the side of the building. Draining into the pan is only allowed if you're on a slab and unable to otherwise drain it directly to another area for discharge. Also an important note is that the PVC is actually CPVC. CPVC is rated for pressure and high temperatures which is what you'll have if that valve ever blows, so make sure you get CPVC parts/pipe for it. It's not expensive and available right next to the PVC at big box stores. It's slightly yellowish compared to PVCs white color.
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Feb 25, 2020 15:05
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SpartanIvy posted:Your interpretation of this is incorrect and I only know this because I made the same assumption. The air gap can be on the outside where it terminates into a discharge pipe or along the side of the building. Draining into the pan is only allowed if you're on a slab and unable to otherwise drain it directly to another area for discharge. Granted I didn't dig into it - but in jurisdictions where this is allowed I've always seen a limit on both the length and especially the number of bends. Whatever is going on there doesn't look great in that respect if we make the assumption there is at least another 90 on it outside.
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Feb 25, 2020 17:28
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Motronic posted:Granted I didn't dig into it - but in jurisdictions where this is allowed I've always seen a limit on both the length and especially the number of bends. Whatever is going on there doesn't look great in that respect if we make the assumption there is at least another 90 on it outside. There are almost certainly at least 2 90s inside the wall, that's an interior wall that's parallel to unit exterior walls. Could it maybe feed into bathroom plumbing? Either way, it sounds like I should hire a plumber to make sure it's up to code. If it was a normal setup without that weird pipe I'd be perfectly happy to replace it myself, but if that's confusing people in here then I don't want to try to puzzle it out.
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Feb 25, 2020 17:56
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Gin_Rummy posted:Apologies if this doesn’t QUITE belong here... but I haven’t been able to get an answer from anywhere else: Self-quoting for context... I spoke to my contractor and he says the best option is to level out the drain with one more pour. Is it ok to just pour as-is, or do I need to etch/score the existing material at all? He says if his crew does it, they won’t do any prep work at all, which concerns me... would you not want the next layer to adhere/mix, rather than just sit on top?
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Feb 25, 2020 20:13
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Gin_Rummy posted:Self-quoting for context... That depends on the product they are using. Shower bases are made with portland mix, which is usually for 2" or thicker. For thinner surfaces, you will need something different. The adhesion should be okay, since your current wetbet is fresh enough and rather porous. Booley posted:Either way, it sounds like I should hire a plumber to make sure it's up to code. If it was a normal setup without that weird pipe I'd be perfectly happy to replace it myself, but if that's confusing people in here then I don't want to try to puzzle it out. Nitrox fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 04:17
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Booley posted:There are almost certainly at least 2 90s inside the wall, that's an interior wall that's parallel to unit exterior walls. Could it maybe feed into bathroom plumbing? And you don't see any type of 90-deg bend outside anywhere nearby? The downward discharge is generally just at the very end when present, to direct any discharge directly to grade to avoid/minimize scalding to anyone who would be (unfortunately) nearby. Usually they'll plumb it so the 90-deg bend is as close to grade as possible, and the 6" min height is pretty typical. Also, if you're getting a plumber, just have them install copper. While CPVC is technically acceptable, you won't go wrong having the high pressure relief discharge via copper piping, at least for the segment(s) that are exposed. Nitrox posted:You need to hire a plumber because you live in a condo and I bet you dollars to donuts, you signed a contract that stipulates that. It's mandated by every condo insurance I've ever seen. Check with your association. Bad water heater install has potential for tens of thousands in immediate water damages. God help you if your installer isn't properly insured to handle that.
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Feb 26, 2020 08:11
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BubbaGrace posted:I know I'm probably too late for this but you want a slip joint tee, not a wye. We don't use ABS piping around these parts, but I am sure they make a comparable one like below for you. Thanks for the response! I was hoping to avoid a tee with the interior baffle because our current setup has a baffled tee, and it's pretty common for suds and sometimes water to back up into garbage disposal/connected sink (and often vice versa). Due to how it was installed by whoever remodeled it several years before we bought the house, the connection to the garbage disposal actually slopes down to the disposal from the slip joint tee, because the flipper shoved it together as fast as they could and didn't really give thought to it. My hope was to basically force the flow down via a full-diameter connection instead of the half size area that's present due to the baffled tee.
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Feb 26, 2020 08:16
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Nitrox posted:The adhesion should be okay, since your current wetbet is fresh enough and rather porous. Does your opinion here change if I say the pan was poured and shaped in like November/December?
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Feb 26, 2020 14:21
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Gin_Rummy posted:Does your opinion here change if I say the pan was poured and shaped in like November/December?
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Feb 27, 2020 04:22
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SourKraut posted:Thanks for the response! I was hoping to avoid a tee with the interior baffle because our current setup has a baffled tee, and it's pretty common for suds and sometimes water to back up into garbage disposal/connected sink (and often vice versa). Due to how it was installed by whoever remodeled it several years before we bought the house, the connection to the garbage disposal actually slopes down to the disposal from the slip joint tee, because the flipper shoved it together as fast as they could and didn't really give thought to it. I've been in thousand of homes and a tee has worked in all of them just fine. If you are having issues with standing water in the your sink basin then either you have back-pitch as you stated or you have a partial blockage in the waste arm from that sink to the stack/main.
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Feb 28, 2020 03:41
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Cross post from the Fix-it-fast thread: I want to add a utility sink to my garage and I have a few questions. There's already water access because the hot water tank is located there. There's also a drain next to it that would be easy to connect to that luckily has had the drywall stripped back because of another project. Can I make a T off of the input side of the hot water heater to get cold water to the utility sink? Can I also T off for hot water or does that create some weird pressure thing if I try to use mixed hot and cold water? Drain bottom right  Valve above cold water inlet to water heater 
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Feb 28, 2020 04:37
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oXDemosthenesXo posted:Can I make a T off of the input side of the hot water heater to get cold water to the utility sink? Can I also T off for hot water or does that create some weird pressure thing if I try to use mixed hot and cold water? That would be fine, after all, that's what the plumbing is doing anyway further down the lines. Those lines look like 3/4, so you'd be running a 1/2 pipe from a 3/4-3/4-1/2 T to a 3/8 compression valve. edit: just clarifying, you'd be making the T connection after the tank and the flex line, not from the tank's nipple.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:01
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Question: When connecting PVC drain pipe to existing threaded metal pipe, can I use a flanged tailpiece in any orientation? I need to replace a sink drain. The existing drain pipes are chromed brass and connect at the floor to a heavy metal pipe -- ~1.9" OD so I think that's schedule 80 1.5" galvanized pipe? The galvanized pipe goes straight down into the basement and connects to cast iron. I can't muck with that. The brass is a plain s-trap with no venting. I want to replace all that and add a air admittance valve, which would be easiest to do with all PVC. But I'm not sure about the connection from pvc to the metal pipe on the floor. The brass appears to just slide inside the iron pipe.
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Feb 28, 2020 21:41
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Klyith posted:Question: When connecting PVC drain pipe to existing threaded metal pipe, can I use a flanged tailpiece in any orientation? Post a picture. Flanged tailpieces are either for the first sections off a sink drain or coming out of a disposal.
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Feb 28, 2020 23:51
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kid sinister posted:Post a picture. Flanged tailpieces are either for the first sections off a sink drain or coming out of a disposal. They also work for connecting slip joint traps to an old style threaded brass tub waste and overflow tee if you cannot replace all of it due to accessibility issues.
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Feb 29, 2020 01:22
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  kid sinister posted:Flanged tailpieces are either for the first sections off a sink drain or coming out of a disposal. Yeah. The pipe on the bottom is the same diameter as the threaded connection to the sink drain which is why I'm wondering if I can use it both ways. All the internet results for connecting PVC to galvanized pipe say to just use a fernco connector, but those aren't supposed to be used on threaded ends. Klyith fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 29, 2020 |
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Feb 29, 2020 03:03
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You can reuse that compression nut and replace all subsequent brass with a standard issue 1.5" s trap kit. Replace the tailpiece and washer that connects to the strainer while you there. May be a good time to upgrade to an actual garbage disposal whole you're at it.
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Feb 29, 2020 03:55
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Nitrox posted:You can reuse that compression nut and replace all subsequent brass with a standard issue 1.5" s trap kit. quote:Replace the tailpiece and washer that connects to the strainer while you there. May be a good time to upgrade to an actual garbage disposal whole you're at it. A garbage disposal is major lol not gonna happen.
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Feb 29, 2020 04:14
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I know you can put an air admittance valve under the cabinet in compression plastic, I just can't search right now. Somebody sells a kit, I've seen it.
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Feb 29, 2020 16:23
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Nitrox posted:I know you can put an air admittance valve under the cabinet in compression plastic, I just can't search right now. Somebody sells a kit, I've seen it. All the ones I've seen have a horizontal tee and not ideal for replacing S traps. What thread size is that pipe on the bottom? You might be able to put a female PVC adapter on there and build up a new drain pipe with AAV from there.
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Mar 1, 2020 01:04
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I caulked along where the tile meets the tub pan in my shower, but one of the challenges I'm having is that when you get in the tub it moves a few mm down, and moves back up when you get out of the shower. Since there is this constant flexing I'm concerned that over time any caulk I put in there will crack due to the flexing. Is there anything I can do to prevent this from cracking or should I plan on replacing the caulk somewhat regularly?
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Mar 1, 2020 17:53
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kid sinister posted:All the ones I've seen have a horizontal tee and not ideal for replacing S traps. I have a hard time getting an accurate measurement without taking off the nut, but it's about 3/8" for 4 threads -- which is close to the 11.5 threads per inch of PVC thread. So just directly mating it to the pipe is OK? edit: and some type of sealing compound probably, not just teflon tape? The Slack Lagoon posted:Since there is this constant flexing I'm concerned that over time any caulk I put in there will crack due to the flexing. You should use a silicone bath & shower sealer that says permanently flexible as a feature. Lots of movement will break the adhesion faster than decade advertised life, but you should get a lot of years out of it. Klyith fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Mar 1, 2020 |
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Mar 1, 2020 20:36
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Klyith posted:You should use a silicone bath & shower sealer that says permanently flexible as a feature. Lots of movement will break the adhesion faster than decade advertised life, but you should get a lot of years out of it. Awesome, that's what I used. Thanks. Tube said 4 hours until it can be exposed to water, but I'm going to try to give it 30 hrs
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Mar 1, 2020 22:24
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Klyith posted:I have a hard time getting an accurate measurement without taking off the nut, but it's about 3/8" for 4 threads -- which is close to the 11.5 threads per inch of PVC thread. So just directly mating it to the pipe is OK? See if there's a PVC female adapter that will fit those threads, one with threads on one end and a glue end on the other. If you can find one that does, then you can add pipes and pieces from there to build a proper drain with the correct tee, a marvel adapter and an AAV on top that is the necessary distance from the tee. I'd use pipe dope for the threads. The other option is to use a saw to cut the threads off and use one of those rubber couplers with the metal sleeve around it to attach new PVC pipe in line with the existing pipe.
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Mar 2, 2020 00:41
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I want to install a water filter / softener on my house but I have no idea how to pick one. Is there a goon consensus pick or is it a simple matter of figuring what you need to filter then getting what you pay for?
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Mar 3, 2020 05:56
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I have a quick question regarding putting in a bar sink. The previous owner of my house had illegally plumbed my sump pump into the sewer system, basically pressurizing my entire system whenever the sump pump ran (which is constantly, there's a spring under my house but that's a different issue.) Anyway long story short I fixed the sump pump and now have it going back outside, however the pipe he ran for the sump pump ends right below the room that I want to build a bar in. It would be an easy enough thing to drop a new drain through the floor to connect into the plumbing system, all I'd have to do would be to cut the cap off of the line and then install an elbow. My question that I took way too long to get to is I understand that S-traps are pretty much verboten at this point. There's no existing vertical stack in the wall to tie into, so is it possible for me to run this drain without having to have a vent pipe shot through my roof? Our building inspector wouldn't give any hints or advice as to the best way of doing this. 
AFewBricksShy fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Mar 3, 2020 |
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Mar 3, 2020 15:26
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AFewBricksShy posted:My question that I took way too long to get to is I understand that S-traps are pretty much verboten at this point. Since that's exactly what I'm dealing with and have spend a bunch of time researching: the solution to venting when you don't have a vent line to the roof is an air admittance valve, which lets air in to break the siphon. Seems also to be called a "studor" by a lot of plumbers after the main company that makes them. However, AAVs are not code in some locations so this may be no improvement as far as the code situation. By building inspector, do you mean that this is a condo or something where improvements has to be signed off on? Or just the inspector when you bought the house and you're free to DIY whatever you want? (Also while s-traps are not good, they're in existing plumbing all over the place and mostly work. Something like a wet bar that's not going to see heavy use is the lowest offender. Also how badly a s-trap will siphon depends on a lot of variables. In my case I'm dealing with a kitchen sink that really needs an AAV because it's used lots and the drop between the trap and the main stack is like 5' so it pulls a lot of negative pressure.)
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Mar 3, 2020 16:03
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Klyith posted:By building inspector, do you mean that this is a condo or something where improvements has to be signed off on? Or just the inspector when you bought the house and you're free to DIY whatever you want? By inspector I mean the township building inspector. I had him out when I put bilco doors in my basement and was picking his brain about different poo poo I wanted to do. Thanks for the link, I'll definitely look into that and see if he'd be cool with it.
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Mar 3, 2020 16:08
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explain this negative pressure / siphoning thing. S traps are in most of the houses I've seen.. generally in my area houses built in teh 50-70s and you generally have 1 main stack all the pipes run to. without vents. Is there a way to remedy this without throwing a stack to the roof in there? tater_salad fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 3, 2020 |
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Mar 3, 2020 16:08
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tater_salad posted:explain this negative pressure / siphoning thing. S traps are in most of the houses I've seen.. generally in my area houses built in teh 50-70s and you generally have 1 main stack all the pipes run to. without vents. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2o8upCxcqA edit: I think the main reason s-traps worked ok in all old houses built up until the 70s is that houses were smaller and everything was clustered real close to the stacks. Bathrooms were small, people didn't do silly things like island kitchen sinks or 10' long his & hers vanities that cause problems. tater_salad posted:Is there a way to remedy this without throwing a stack to the roof in there? For remedies, you can add in a horizontal vent line to the plumbing stack if you're doing major renovation to a bathroom or kitchen so you're opening up the walls anyways. Or there's the AAV thing, but that's less ideal than proper venting. Disclaimer: I am not a plumber, just a guy who has watched a lot of TOH. Klyith fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Mar 3, 2020 |
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Mar 3, 2020 16:12
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Serenade posted:I want to install a water filter / softener on my house but I have no idea how to pick one. Is there a goon consensus pick or is it a simple matter of figuring what you need to filter then getting what you pay for? What problem are you trying to solve? Smell/taste/hardness? Silt/clouding? Or do you have concerning results on a water test? Definitely start with a water test, even if all you're trying to solve for now is a smell/taste/hardness issue. You may have more issues that can all be solved with the right device/filter.
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Mar 3, 2020 16:33
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I don't understand what is the issue with s traps here. They work perfectly fine and are perfectly code compliant when you adhere to proper venting distances.
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Mar 3, 2020 17:23
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Nitrox posted:I don't understand what is the issue with s traps here. They work perfectly fine and are perfectly code compliant when you adhere to proper venting distances. I'm not a plumber, but s-traps being against code in all states is pretty easily verified. quote:1002.3 Prohibited Traps Klyith fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Mar 3, 2020 |
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Mar 3, 2020 17:54
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I'm going to look into why we've been passing inspections with s traps. I have a feeling, because most of my work is remodeling, they allow it. I'm also a GC, not a master plumber. Thanks for clearing it up, I genuinely didn't know.
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Mar 3, 2020 18:20
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Mar 3, 2020 23:19
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Motronic posted:What problem are you trying to solve? Smell/taste/hardness? Silt/clouding? Or do you have concerning results on a water test? Hardness and smell/taste. I notice the hardness in cleaning, on appliances and maybe skin. Others notice taste and smell. I have lived here for years so if there is a taste, I may be overlooking it. I grabbed a water test from Lowes: Total hardness: 100ppm (5.8 gpg) Total Chlorine: 2ppm Alkalinity: 50 ppm Ph: 7-8 Nitrite and Nitrate: 0 - 0.5 ppm Copper: less than 1.0 ppm Iron: 0.3 ppm, but this one was hard to read. Lead and pesticide negative There is a coliform bacteria test included that takes 48 hours that has not yet been run.
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Mar 4, 2020 03:14
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