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It's still not clear to me what exactly happened in regards to Ash becoming a Klingon.
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Feb 25, 2020 19:32
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kidkissinger posted:It's still not clear to me what exactly happened in regards to Ash becoming a Klingon. The Ash we have now was originally a Klingon named Voq. There was a real Ash Tyler who was captured and then had his body and memories transformed to turn Voq into a sleeper agent who would appear anatomically human. Ash as he exists now has both his Klingon memories and the real Ash’s human memories. I guess he’s also still genetically human? In the end it doesn’t matter because that character sucked and we probably won’t see him again until the Section 31 show starts 
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Feb 25, 2020 19:38
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Yeah Discovery must have been really popular I'm sure that's why they pivoted towards a bunch of fanservice halfway through its first season and literally made the ending an unconnected cliffhanger where the Enterprise shows up for no reason, that certainly smells like confidence in their creative approach The Star Trek MMO is still running and presumably generating money, we have a long way to go before they shut this poo poo down for lack of interest. Voyager and Enterprise together ran for over a decade because they were on UPN, I guess we'll find out how much Trek material they are willing to spam for their streaming service because as we all will know these things are decided purely based on pragmatism and logic
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Feb 25, 2020 19:41
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Was Disco the first show with a major romance subplot like that? I guess Worf/Dax, but that never seemed obtrusive. But I liked them also soTighclops posted:Yeah Discovery must have been really popular I'm sure that's why they pivoted towards a bunch of fanservice halfway through its first season and literally made the ending an unconnected cliffhanger where the Enterprise shows up for no reason, that certainly smells like confidence in their creative approach Hey, the other guy said no one was making these arguments even implicitly so pay attention please.
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Feb 25, 2020 19:41
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I think you could argue Worf/Troi as the starting point but that's more of a prototype for Worf/Dax I think.
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Feb 25, 2020 19:45
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Riker/Troi kinda even if both of them spent the majority of the show seeing other people.
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Feb 25, 2020 19:48
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Imzadi... I don't recall melodramatic tear filled capital-C Conversations in those, like they'd be on a date in the cold open or something. https://i.imgur.com/Na814Hz.mp4 What was the first episode where Worf and Troi were even hinted at being a thing? It wasn't Parallels was it?
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Feb 25, 2020 19:50
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zoux posted:We're talking about this because you guys are doing some sort of epistemological stoner "what can we really know about anything man" thing without offering a shred of counter evidence. But if you want to say that streaming show viewership numbers are opaque, yes they are, on purpsoe, and these arguments apply to every streaming show ever made. Is the Mandalorian popular? Well, Disney says so, but they would wouldn't they. Stranger Things? Who can say? Both of those things have overwhelmingly positive user scores and are cultural phenomenons approaching Game of Thrones levels. Discovery's with it 42% audience score can only reliably be described as mixed. Again to stress, this does say anything about the quality of any of them. zoux posted:Hey, the other guy said no one was making these arguments even implicitly so pay attention please. I never said this, I was referring to the five or so people on that page (well before our friend Mr Tighclops showed up) who were discussing streaming platform models. You're being disingenuous. I'm going to stop arguing with you. Feel free to have the last word.
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Feb 25, 2020 19:55
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Riker/Troi kinda even if both of them spent the majority of the show seeing other people. Early Riker/Troi feels extremely Decker/Ilia. I'm assuming if Phase 2 had been a thing, their romance would have been a big part of the show.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:00
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zoux posted:What was the first episode where Worf and Troi were even hinted at being a thing? It wasn't Parallels was it? I think it was Parallels and Eye of the Beholder which started it, but both of those were alternate realities or something 'fake'. IIRC the first episode when it was a proper thing was Emergence and then followed up in All Good Things (more so in the alternate future where Worf and Riker were sulky with each other because of her death).
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Feb 25, 2020 20:00
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Lizard Combatant posted:Again to stress, this does say anything about the quality of any of them. Nobody is saying that it does, people are just reacting against people who are convinced that Disco failed to meet expectations, against all the evidence we have.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:03
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I'm perusing the observations of minutiae for the new Picard episodes over at EAS. One of the many tiny details he spotted: Computer, zoom to grid 47 and enhance...  Should have known.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:03
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Zaroff posted:I think it was Parallels and Eye of the Beholder which started it, but both of those were alternate realities or something 'fake'. IIRC the first episode when it was a proper thing was Emergence and then followed up in All Good Things (more so in the alternate future where Worf and Riker were sulky with each other because of her death). Parallels had Worf married to Troi in an alternate reality, but he notices that she actually knows him quite well the end of the episode where she's just being thoughtful and nice and it was really sweet.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:04
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galenanorth posted:I am toward the end of Star Trek: Discovery's first season, and this show would be so much better without Ash Tyler, who is the worst character. All his scenes are boring, predictable, and gross for the sake of shock imagery. Star Trek should be amenable toward viewing with family, whereas this Trek has plenty of scenes where someone could walk past and you'd have to be like "I swear it's not like this all the time" or else they'd think you like to watch Klingon torture porn. Stametts is great, and Mirror Stamett's initial prank on his counterpart made me laugh out loud. Burnham, Tilly, and (Mirror) Lorca are all right, though it probably would have been better to have a season with Georgiou beforehand, for actual Star Trek instead of wartime corrupted-by-mirror-Lorca Star Trek. Lorca can be a good character while making the show worse, in a context where everyone is afraid the show has been taken over by millionaires who will give the show a neoliberal or even neoconservative voice. I was rewatching Nemesis not too long ago for the first time probably since I saw it in the theater. Of course my wife walks in during the Troi mind-rape scene instead of literally any other time of the movie. ... I got it in a bluray set with all of the other movies. It's not like I purposely bought that movie.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:05
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marktheando posted:Nobody is saying that it does, people are just reacting against people who are convinced that Disco failed to meet expectations, against all the evidence we have. Oh I know, I just don't want anyone to think I'm advocating for using review aggregators as an indication of worth. I really don't like how Rotten Tomatoes scores things but unfortunately in the absence of actual data it's really all we have outside speculation.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:06
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galenanorth posted:Star Trek should be amenable toward viewing with family, whereas this Trek has plenty of scenes where someone could walk past and you'd have to be like "I swear it's not like this all the time" What's the most embarrassing scene in each series to be caught watching? For DS9 it must surely be the scene from prophet and lace where they do a panning shot of quark's drag from foot to head
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Feb 25, 2020 20:11
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Jungle Gym fight in Code of Honor
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Feb 25, 2020 20:14
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:What's the most embarrassing scene in each series to be caught watching? "It's been a loooooong time... Getting from there to here..." I also accidentally used my friend's Netflix profile (we share accounts) to look up the Voyager episode with Ray Wise and he must have been logged in because I immediately got the most shame inducing text message that just said "voyager LC, really?" Most embarrassing scene out of context? God there's so many... But drag Quark is up there. Lwaxana in the tub maybe? e: \/\/\/ no, it's that Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 20:19
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:What's the most embarrassing scene in each series to be caught watching? For Enterprise I have to go with the decontamination scene with T'Pol and Phlox where she has her Ponn Farr and they have to massage the goop all over each others bodies.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:23
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Horizon Burning posted:People are going to look back on this little time period of media, where everything has to be super didactic and beat you over the head with a Very Important Message About Hope Because The Orange Man Won as one of the most embarrassing time periods in pop culture writing. It'll be up there with Post-9/11 Insanity and the 2007 Writer's Strike as having a deleterious effect on the stories people were telling. It's like people need their entertainment media to swaddle them in clothes and pat them on the back and tell them, hush hush, that it'll be okay. But like, not by creating new media - no, that'd be a financial risk. By taking old properties and twistin them so you can Make A Point. Media and art are supposed to reflect the times they were made in. Personally I think we'll be looking at these times very differently than you seem to imply, I think we'll see our past selves as destructively naive. The old properties thing is just simple capitalism. Profit motive means wringing the poo poo out of anything that ever appeared to be in any way profitable. Powered Descent posted:I'm perusing the observations of minutiae for the new Picard episodes over at EAS. One of the many tiny details he spotted:
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Feb 25, 2020 20:30
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That's a uniform isn't it?
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Feb 25, 2020 20:33
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zoux posted:That's a uniform isn't it? Yeah the network was really big on getting those repeating Starfleet arrows on the uniforms in Discovery, I think overruling Fuller when he wanted TOS style uniforms, so not surprised to see they are also on the uniforms in Picard. Khanstant posted:drat, that's a really cool pattern actually. Surprised we don't see more of things like that. Or maybe it's out there but just for rich people. Yeah IIRC the Disco uniforms cost a fortune.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:38
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The tiny logos all over the uniforms is such a bizarre thing. I really want to hear the production story behind it.
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Feb 25, 2020 20:45
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skasion posted:The tiny logos all over the uniforms is such a bizarre thing. I really want to hear the production story behind it. "You know how every Star Trek show blew time and money on some detail nobody can see on their TV, yet left other elements glaringly unpolished?" "Yeah?" "Why don't we really lean into that tradition"
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Feb 25, 2020 21:09
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Setting Disco ten years before TOS, I have no idea why they didn't try to do an updated take on the 60s aesthetics. What we saw of the Enterprise bridge and unis looked pretty good, dunno why they went with the blue and gold jumpsuits. (It's fuller I'm sure)
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Feb 25, 2020 21:17
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I talked to somebody who worked on the sets shortly before the show premiered and they told me they were going for a 60's bond movie look. Personally I didn't see it
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Feb 25, 2020 21:27
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Brawnfire posted:"You know how every Star Trek show blew time and money on some detail nobody can see on their TV, yet left other elements glaringly unpolished?" They delayed production over these freakin things. I remember Harberts(?) talking about how they had to fly someone to Switzerland to pick up the material
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Feb 25, 2020 21:30
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skasion posted:They delayed production over these freakin things. I remember Harberts(?) talking about how they had to fly someone to Switzerland to pick up the material Someone at CBS must have had a hard-on for them, Fuller just wanted TOS style uniforms for his season 1 pitch. But he also wanted an anthology style show that told radically different stories in different times each season with creative directors to helm the pilots and set the tone. I've gotten different mileages out his other shows, but that sounded like a fantastic idea.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:34
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zoux posted:Setting Disco ten years before TOS, I have no idea why they didn't try to do an updated take on the 60s aesthetics. What we saw of the Enterprise bridge and unis looked pretty good, dunno why they went with the blue and gold jumpsuits. (It's fuller I'm sure) Nah, Fuller talks about what his original vision for Discovery was in this article- https://ew.com/tv/2017/07/28/bryan-fuller-star-trek-discovery/ quote:Some of Fuller’s ideas were tossed — from the more heavily allegorical and complex storyline to his choice of uniforms (a subdued spin on The Original Series trio of primary colors). Someone else really wanted those uniforms. I like them, but it's weird they went to so much effort and expense over them.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:37
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Tighclops posted:I talked to somebody who worked on the sets shortly before the show premiered and they told me they were going for a 60's bond movie look. Personally I didn't see it I guess I can see it, knowing that, but it's not executed well. The Incredibles nails that aesthetic. marktheando posted:Someone else really wanted those uniforms. I like them, but it's weird they went to so much effort and expense over them. Does anyone know the whereabouts of one Rick Berman
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Feb 25, 2020 21:39
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Lizard Combatant posted:
Fantastically expensive too. The first things that people who sign budgets would gasp at is constructing all new sets each year.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:45
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piratepilates posted:Fantastically expensive too. The first things that people who sign budgets would gasp at is constructing all new sets each year. No doubt. But they did that anyway. They built new sets for the Enterprise, made new costumes for Disco and Enterprise (including the needlessly expensive jumpsuits) and spent a gently caress load on vfx. And that's just Discovery. Then they made Picard with new costumes, sets, etc... It's basically the same cost outlay over three seasons. You don't have to be Berman/Braga levels of cheap, but there's plenty of ways to reduce cost by redressing existing sets, etc... e: it seems like a lot of what lost him the project was scheduling and the push to launch the platform with Discovery. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 21:50
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I noticed that they covered up the side cockpit windows on Picard show's ship so they wouldn't have to VFX in space outside just like they did with the extra windows on ds9's runabouts
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Feb 25, 2020 21:54
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I like Disco, but I still wonder if Fuller’s The Cage-inspired aesthetic and anthology structured version of the show would have been better or worse.
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Feb 25, 2020 21:58
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I like Disco, but I still wonder if Fuller’s The Cage-inspired aesthetic and anthology structured version of the show would have been better or worse. It's hard to say. He can get really self indulgent but maybe having to start fresh each season and have a tight self contained story would have tempered that.
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Feb 25, 2020 22:00
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I like Disco, but I still wonder if Fuller’s The Cage-inspired aesthetic and anthology structured version of the show would have been better or worse. Well it would’ve had an amazing first season and then he would’ve gotten bored/mad and quit.
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Feb 25, 2020 22:06
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Anthologies are expensive, so I have no doubt Fuller still would have been fired after 1.5 seasons for eating up six seasons worth of budget and delaying each season by two years.
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Feb 25, 2020 22:15
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Anthologies are expensive, so I have no doubt Fuller still would have been fired after 1.5 seasons for eating up six seasons worth of budget and delaying each season by two years. They are, but Discovery is reportedly over $8 mill per episode. Which is a lot but also lower than other services flagship shows. The Expanse seems like an obvious comparison in terms of the amount of sets needed for an anthology style trek since they have a ridiculous amount of locations built ground up (though they're smart and reuse things) including extensive sfx rigs for weightlessness and space (seriously how the gently caress did this show ever get made?!) There's no official figures, but estimates hit around the $5 mill average ep cost (some say lower, and higher estimates have been rejected by people in the show). I don't fully buy that the anthology idea was nixed for budget reasons (it's your flagship show, go big or go home and they're clearly willing to spend a lot), it was probably a part but Fuller’s idiosyncrasies, the desire to make a safer, traditional show and the insistence on a release date coinciding with their planned platform release seem more plausible to me. Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Feb 25, 2020 |
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Feb 25, 2020 22:34
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More Chabon on what he's going forquote:Concerns about the level violence in Picard: Also Frakes says Riker was added in later in the writing process 
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Feb 25, 2020 23:10
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I get what he's saying but I can't be the only person that read that whole thing and got douche chills
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Feb 25, 2020 23:47
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