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Aramoro posted:Wasn't this exactly the line of reasoning people in this very thread went down when it was said Corbyn wasn't electable? 'But he won the leadership election!' 'But he won his seat every year!' If those argument apply to Corbyn then they equally apply here. No. You've conflated two different arguments and decided they are the same.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:32
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Azza Bamboo posted:I don't think it ever specified that Mohammed's cat was domesticated. He may have petted the farm cat. There's a story that he cut a piece out of his cloak rather than move the cat that was snoozing on it.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:32
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Yeah, the cat definitely felt entitled to live and sleep in his house and all over his clothes, which is about as domesticated as modern cats get.
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Feb 26, 2020 18:40
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thespaceinvader posted:Pets are family too. Hope you're OK. The Deleter posted:Sorry to hear, Mrs A. I'm sure he was a fantastic catto, and I hope you're okay. Appreciate it, and yeah we're doing okay, it's just pretty raw today. Mam's got the worst of it by far, he was absolutely her cat, and holding her as tight as I could through her primal howls of grief and wracking sobs was all I could do. Mackarel tabbies are very cute, Murphy was one of those, I liked his big M! Also the store of Muhammed cutting the fabric out is the most Cat_Person.txt story in all of religion, I've always liked that tale 
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Feb 26, 2020 18:50
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Communist Thoughts posted:I do get the slight vibe from my fellow corbnists that all our friends just died charging into machine gunfire so now if we don't keep charging into machine gunfire then it was a waste Do you think we were wrong to back the mild social democracy of 2019 and that we should concede all power to the melts so that 2024 Labour can run on a platform of "hang some of the foreigns"?
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Feb 26, 2020 18:52
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I'm just not convinced we can draw too many concrete lessons from 2019 aside from "People really loving wanted Brexit". Which isn't to say we can just replace Corbyn with another person of similar views and expect a win next time around. Far from it - we need to do hard work to make sure we know what policies are popular and to emphasize them and do our best to get everyone informed about the truth of them despite the media. We shouldn't abandon our core principles though, nor should we simply assume that some position or another is a non-starter purely because of an election which was heavily influenced by a very unique issue.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:05
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Also, critically, we have tried their way, it doesn't work even when they win. Everything worthwhile about the blair government has been undone by the tories and everything bad has been expanded upon, and it lost millions of voters, what is the point in that approach for either our own lives or the future of the place we live?
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Feb 26, 2020 19:08
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Apparently I can vote for the WEC (Welsh 'NEC'). Any recommendations? First I heard about it was just received email from Welsh Labour.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:09
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People did really want Brexit to be done, and another year of arguing and another referendum was never going to be popular. People eventually bought into the various poo poo thrown at Corbyn. In retrospect it would have been great to build on the limited success of 2017 under another figure, but who? And we did throw too many policies out there, to the point where it looked desperate. Focus harder on the priorities next time. Extras can come later. Nobody who's not convinced by "nationalise trains" will be pushed over the line by "also broadband"
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Feb 26, 2020 19:13
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The broadband policy especially went down really badly with the public, people laughed at it.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:18
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Next time Labour shouldn't promise so many good things, the manifesto being 'unrealistic' was a very effective talking point for the tories.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:20
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marktheando posted:The broadband policy especially went down really badly with the public, people laughed at it. I think many people have no idea how dependent they are on it, nor that for those on benefits or job hunting it is crucial to have broadband access these days. The 'I'm alright Jack' brigade still fondly think people can just fetch up at their local library and get online, clueless about life for many, especially if you don't live in a city or large town.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:21
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The biggest obstacle being the notion that libraries still exist.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:22
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marktheando posted:Next time Labour shouldn't promise so many good things, the manifesto being 'unrealistic' was a very effective talking point for the tories. Promise the most important and extremely popular stuff up front, do all the other great stuff in years 2/3/4 once you've convinced people that spending money on stuff is not terrible.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:32
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next leader should run on a more negative, hate filled platform. DOn't talk about helping the poor, talk about hurting the rich.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:34
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Broadband was a good policy but yeah I have to agree it wasn't going to win anybody around who wasn't already voting Labour, and people who weren't already voting Labour laughed at it. It still should have been policy but making a big announcement about it was a misstep IMO.marktheando posted:next leader should run on a more negative, hate filled platform. DOn't talk about helping the poor, talk about hurting the rich. 
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Feb 26, 2020 19:35
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Unironically I would absolutely vote for the maximally spiteful communist party.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:38
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Honestly, at this point the single most important economic policy anyone could make is 'confiscate all money owned by any single individual in excess of £100m or non-government corporation in excess oof £10b or thereabouts', so yeah, direct policy of hating the rich and spending the money they stole from us would be good. Very difficult to actually persuade people of though, it's next to impossible to comprehend the scale of the inequality.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:42
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WhatEvil posted:Broadband was a good policy but yeah I have to agree it wasn't going to win anybody around who wasn't already voting Labour, and people who weren't already voting Labour laughed at it. It still should have been policy but making a big announcement about it was a misstep IMO. It was a fantastic policy that was IMO let down by being put out as a headline policy as "free broadband" rather than put in with the other good stuff in the GIR as "nationalise Openreach, update baseline standards for USO*, roll out fibre" with maybe a footnote of "make line rental and basic connectivity free". * Universal Service Obligation - BT** are required to provide a phone line to anyone who asks for a fixed monthly cost. This was last updated in the late 90s, where BT grudgingly revised the minimum data standard a line could carry from v.29 (the minimum required for an analogue fax, 9.6 kbps) to the much more 21st-century-ready v.34, a blistering 28.8kbps. BT massively opposed an attempt to update this in 2005 to 33.6kbps analogue, let alone allowing even the by then almost decade-old ADSL to be part of the minimum. ** Also Kingston Communications in Hull because Hull is loving weird.
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Feb 26, 2020 19:54
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https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1232723122400452609?s=19 Oof
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Feb 26, 2020 20:05
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Feb 26, 2020 20:05
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Labour fill my inbox with shite on the daily and yet have not managed to send my ballot. I don't really get why it would take up to a week to press Send to a list of e-mail addresses. Is anyone else still waiting for the electronic version? Quite looking forward to posting my tear-stained, cut up membership card on Twitter in about a month tbh. Very retro.
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Feb 26, 2020 20:10
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 ed: with column headers (source) CGI Stardust fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 20:12
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It's okay to give up on this country
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Feb 26, 2020 20:19
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Shogi posted:Labour fill my inbox with shite on the daily and yet have not managed to send my ballot. I don't really get why it would take up to a week to press Send to a list of e-mail addresses. Is anyone else still waiting for the electronic version? Because it's not just pressing send on a mass email blast, it's generating half a million individual logins for a specific secure site and sending out half a million individual personalised emails.
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Feb 26, 2020 20:21
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I do hope that even with Starmer in charge we can change things.
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Feb 26, 2020 20:21
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Ash Crimson posted:It's okay to give up on this country Is it a feature of your specific brain problem that you have to keep posting the same dumb poo poo every two days or so?
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Feb 26, 2020 20:28
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goddamnedtwisto posted:It was a fantastic policy that was IMO let down by being put out as a headline policy as "free broadband" rather than put in with the other good stuff in the GIR as "nationalise Openreach, update baseline standards for USO*, roll out fibre" with maybe a footnote of "make line rental and basic connectivity free". Hard agree. Broadband is an essential service these days that really should be government run, but they screwed the messaging on this completely with free at the point of use. I honestly think it was one of the key things that tipped people into thinking the entire manifesto was an unrealistic grab-bag. Five more years until we can actually get a semi thought through green policy, assuming Boris doesn't use his Coronavirus granted emergency powers to declare himself perpetual godemperor. Yeah pretty much everyone in my London based office has moved to 'welp, we're probably all infected already'. Long, asymptomatic incubation period combined with the American CDC saying 'when, not if' and poo poo coming out of Germany like this: https://www.rt.com/news/481749-germany-coronavirus-epidemic-beginning/ (Yes, yes, I know, RT as a primary source). Anyway, stay safe Jaeluni and other older goons 
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Feb 26, 2020 20:28
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Josef bugman posted:I do hope that even with Starmer in charge we can change things. Same, buddy. But I'm not optimistic.
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Feb 26, 2020 20:32
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OwlFancier posted:Is it a feature of your specific brain problem that you have to keep posting the same dumb poo poo every two days or so? Because it's goddamn true
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Feb 26, 2020 20:40
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The cuts to farming assistance begin https://www.fwi.co.uk/business/payments-schemes/defra-confirms-reductions-in-support-for-farmers quote:Basic Payments will be reduced by 5-25% next year for farmers in England, the government has confirmed. Harsh as it is, it's really hard to feel sorry for the stupid fucks. It's only the start too, the intention is to phase it out completely by next year. Don't worry if you're a Farmer it's being replaced by a vague promise of a new system, something that Tories have never hosed up before. Fans fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 20:42
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sebzilla posted:Same, buddy. But I'm not optimistic. Even if we cannot change too much with the world, we can still be better people. We can also try and make sure that other Leftist causes see increasing power over the years.
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Feb 26, 2020 20:57
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Ah well it was a nice change to have actual hope for a few years, I'll just go back to being politically unaffiliated and abjectly voting Green every election
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Feb 26, 2020 21:04
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Wow, Corbyn can't even win a leadership election anymore.
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Feb 26, 2020 21:09
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https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/status/1232641618320281600
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Feb 26, 2020 21:20
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wonder how many of those 18 replies are just "lmao"
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Feb 26, 2020 21:21
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About half of them. I can't imagine being as boring as that guy lol.
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Feb 26, 2020 21:23
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Fans posted:The cuts to farming assistance begin Abolish hill farming and let our uplands revert to forest imo.
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Feb 26, 2020 21:25
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RockyB posted:Hard agree. Broadband is an essential service these days that really should be government run, but they screwed the messaging on this completely with free at the point of use. I honestly think it was one of the key things that tipped people into thinking the entire manifesto was an unrealistic grab-bag. I thought this at the time, but pushed through in a spirit of optimism. It may have been a policy too far (albeit a good one in isolation) but repeatedly branding it as 'Free Broadband!' really just played directly to a common right-wing criticism that the left just want to have 'free stuff'. Same with the WASPI pensions announcement - a perfectly good and right policy but it came after Labour's costing plan had been published and adding a few extra £billion to your manifesto that wasn't in your carefully-balanced grey book just makes a mockery of the whole thing. We all know that government budgeting is largely limitless and that policies don't have to be £s In/£s Out, but if you're producing a costed manifesto as a sop to your critics then at least stick to it during the campaign. Or just promise nebulous spending commitments with only the vaguest idea of whether/how you're going to pay for it and let a pliant press not ask any awkward questions...works for the Tories!
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Feb 26, 2020 21:34
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BalloonFish posted:I thought this at the time, but pushed through in a spirit of optimism. It may have been a policy too far (albeit a good one in isolation) but repeatedly branding it as 'Free Broadband!' really just played directly to a common right-wing criticism that the left just want to have 'free stuff'. No one EVER asks the tories how they're going to pay for anything regardless. How will they pay for this wretched bridge from Scotland to Northern Ireland? Not one journalist appears to have been bothered to ask. On the one hand I feel sorry for people who are going to be screwed over by the tories, all the 'little' landlords being taxed out of the market so the big landlords can pick up more properties for their portfolios on the cheap, the people low down the food chain who are about to see tax rises, the cuts to pension tax relief, the farmers who will lose their subsidies, all the other losses that will come from brexit, but on the other hand, I think f*k 'em how anyone could be so stupid as to trust a tory when the most cursory glance at political history shows they don't give a toss about 'the little people', wreck the economy every time they are in power, and lie lie lie - they deserve everything that's coming. (Shame about the rest of us who will be caught up in it).
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Feb 26, 2020 21:42
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