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Chill la Chill posted:Trading promise cubes to force opponents' people to retire might be neat. Definitely not your own and it should be a high cost. Forcing a retirement reroll with a severance package of favor cubes would be appropriate. "We the people have strongly demanded Sir Alabaster Upton Downton Smithe-Higgins to step down as executive officer *slips a burlap sack with a pound sign under the table*"
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Feb 26, 2020 18:19
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Played Quacks of Quedlinburg the other night. Had never heard of it, friend brought it over. Considering it's mostly random with a sprinkling of decision making about whether to push your luck, it's actually pretty fun. Has sort of a Dominion-like element of observing the recipe books in use for the game, and then forming an overall strategy of what you are going to buy, and improving your bag over the course of the game. I managed to tie and then win the tiebreaker after being behind midgame on a mostly chaining blue 4 (first set - draw 4 tiles and may play one of them) strategy. The last round I got to the end of the track. I don't know about the name. They should have named it "Strange Brew." Not really a lot of player interaction, but simultaneous play is always a plus. Also, the "Cherry Bomb" tiles should be like... bright red or something (I know there is a red tile, use something else for that). Having them be the least visually striking tile in the set is kind of eh, considering they are the ones that blow up your potion. Oh yeah, and it does have one of those all-icon game flow reminders on the main board... Elysium fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 19:01
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Lord Of Texas posted:Beginner mode is relative, and plenty of people throughout history have played and enjoyed chess without even knowing what an opening is. I personally tend to agree, but the problem is (and this goes to Silvergooses point above) is that if you go to Reddit and ask what a heavy game is you get a mix of 'lots of rules' and 'lots of strategic depth' Similarly my crack about beginner mode was getting at something else. Family game of Agricola is actually a decent game I think, but when we discuss the weight of Agricola noone talks about family mode. Logically when we consider chess' 'weight' we are discussing the full version of the game, which means opening book. Same for 18xx: 1830 or 1889 has beginner modes and we never discuss those. They are very interesting because they distribute the privates without an auction which fundamentally changes the game and removes a lot of strategy I don't actually think that the Gallerist (the only Lacerda I've played more than once) actually has that deep a decision space. I think it's just obfuscated by a ton of rules and interlocking mechanisms which makes it very hard to parse the relationship between action and reaction. Cthulhu Dreams fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 23:17
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:I don't actually think that the Gallerist (the only Lacerda I've played more than once) actually has that deep a decision space. I think it's just obfuscated by a ton of rules and interlocking mechanisms which makes it very hard to parse the relationship between action and reaction. This is what put me off Gallerist in the end - it felt like the amount of 'work' you had to do to parse the way the mechanics interacted and eventually led to points was too much for the amount of actual decisions to be made. I think for me when I think of 'heaviness' in games, a lot of it comes down to the amount of analysis I have to do when comparing options with different mechanisms, or which have different but potentially equally valuable impacts on the game state. A game that has a lot of options on any given turn but all of which use roughly the same mechanisms to advance my position/earn points feels 'lighter' than a game where the reverse is true, so a game like chess (or to go into a different space, Cthulhu Wars) feels light in the sense that although it might be strategically very deep, and I have a huge range of options on my turn, essentially I am trying to attain a similar outcome from the result of my decision - greater board presence etc. By contrast, something like Brass feels heavier - even though on some turns my options might actually be fewer, it feels like a heavier decision to weigh up because of the total asymmetry between the approaches I could take: taking a loan to improve actions on future turns, vs developing my own infrastructure, vs improving my board position through immediate placement of maybe suboptimal buildings or links just to claim territory - and then the impacts that layer on top of that, i.e. how each of these decisions will affect the turn order for the next round. This is probably the wrong definition of heaviness when it comes to interpreting the heaviness rating on BGG, but for some reason it's how it works in my head.
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Feb 26, 2020 23:56
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That's why I don't like Lacerda games either. Small decision space with massive fallout of sub systems that serve only to obfuscate the player's ability to affect the board state. Combined with the small amount of actions you actually take and it just feels like way too much work for way too little payoff.
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Feb 27, 2020 00:05
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Once you understand that The Gallerist is about raising the prices of paintings, getting rep tiles, and fulfilling your curator card I find it's a fairly brisk medium weight game. The presentation suggests a lot of moving parts and complexity, but really all you're considering in the long term is how to get your next piece of art and how to raise the prices of the art that you already have, which isn't a lot of work to understand at all. In the short term, the big decision points are how to use your free actions, which I think is a bit of a weakness since that takes up other people's turns.
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Feb 27, 2020 00:35
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I rate a game's heaviness by play time with some consideration given to rules burden. Under an hour is light, between 1 and 2 hours medium, 2 hours and above heavy. Eldritch horror, though it is simple turn by turn, is heavy to me because it would require a significant investment from the players to play. I would also consider Root heavy because although the play time is short, getting the game rolling requires a lot.
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Feb 27, 2020 00:40
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Shadow225 posted:I rate a game's heaviness by play time with some consideration given to rules burden. Under an hour is light, between 1 and 2 hours medium, 2 hours and above heavy. Uhhh Monopoly ain't heavy.
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Feb 27, 2020 00:44
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A co-worker helped me remember the name of a game today that I played play-by-post on here years ago: Cash or Crash. I remember being quite fond of it and wanting to eventually get a hard copy, but I can't find any information on it outside of a barebones BoardGameGeek entry. fake edit: A quick search of the forums/archives reveals it was designed by xopods and it's been brought up a few times by folks also looking for a copy in some form, including a potential print & play. Any leads on that? I regret not picking up a copy years ago.
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Feb 27, 2020 00:45
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Baron Fuzzlewhack posted:A co-worker helped me remember the name of a game today that I played play-by-post on here years ago: Cash or Crash. I remember being quite fond of it and wanting to eventually get a hard copy, but I can't find any information on it outside of a barebones BoardGameGeek entry. Xopods is canadian iirc and it was only small print runs and didnt distribute outside CA. I have the distribution of the cards in my google drive somewhere as I ran those games a few times
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Feb 27, 2020 00:47
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Jabor posted:Is Fischer Random more or less heavy than traditional chess? At grandmaster level its probably less heavy since you wont have the hours of preparation for a novel opening, prior to a game even happening. At lower levels its probably more since you cant rely on studying an in-depth analysis of something like the London System where key concepts and outcomes are thoroughly explained, and you just have to rely on tactical calculation and general opening principles.
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Feb 27, 2020 00:58
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For my personal taste heaviness is overall irrelevant, the question is how good is the games ratio of depth:complexity. If your game is on the Pareto frontier of depth to complexity while having great thematic integration then you have a good game.
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Feb 27, 2020 01:00
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silvergoose posted:Uhhh Monopoly ain't heavy. Monopoly is a sub-60 minute game if you play by the correct rules, so that's right by play time. On the other hand you have Bomarzo, which is the crunchiest 60-75 minutes you will ever play.
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Feb 27, 2020 01:09
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Also since Im a Big Chess Fan, I just want to clear the record and say that if you just memorize an opening book, youll get destroyed every time by someone who memorizes a few key opening principles and does some tactics training
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Feb 27, 2020 01:13
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Control Volume posted:Also since Im a Big Chess Fan, I just want to clear the record and say that if you just memorize an opening book, youll get destroyed every time by someone who memorizes a few key opening principles and does some tactics training Also endgames can lift you from mediocre to winning.
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Feb 27, 2020 01:16
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:For my personal taste heaviness is overall irrelevant, the question is how good is the games ratio of depth:complexity. Pareto frontier implies that you have a max complexity with nearly-zero depth. In here we’d say those games might be CFNA and Lacerda, but I’m sure plenty of those complex subsystems euros are down there somewhere.
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Feb 27, 2020 01:39
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Sounds like a minis dicechucking wargame
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Feb 27, 2020 01:41
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Control Volume posted:Also since Im a Big Chess Fan, I just want to clear the record and say that if you just memorize an opening book, youll get destroyed every time by someone who memorizes a few key opening principles and does some tactics training Yeah opening book is just one element of good play. Chess is very heavy.
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Feb 27, 2020 01:49
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Root just showed up finally. Fuckers.
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Feb 27, 2020 05:40
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Finally tried Founders of Gloomhaven. I have thoughts that may have to wait until the morning.
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Feb 27, 2020 05:49
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Played the first two games of Machikoro Legacy. It’s everything I could have wanted.
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Feb 27, 2020 06:11
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Played a 3p game of Reef Encounter tonight. It's about growing clusters of coral that you protect with shrimp, until they're big enough for your pufferfish to feed on. Players can interfere with each other's clusters by growing reefs of different colors, and there's a dominance system that determines which colors can grow over each other. The game is pretty good, but I had a bad experience early on, and it kind of soured my feelings for the game. I'd misjudged what one of the other players was going to do, and I overextended my reef, so he broke it up a turn before I could score it, completely shutting me down. My fault, of course, and in lots of games you learn from that and adjust your play in future games so you don't make the same mistake again. For this one, though, it seems like I've seen everything there is to see and I don't feel like additional plays will lead to new or more interesting outcomes. also the rulebook is written in comic sans and that's unforgivable
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Feb 27, 2020 06:26
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Phelddagrif posted:Played a 3p game of Reef Encounter tonight. It's about growing clusters of coral that you protect with shrimp, until they're big enough for your pufferfish to feed on. Players can interfere with each other's clusters by growing reefs of different colors, and there's a dominance system that determines which colors can grow over each other. My wife maintains this was the biggest bait and switch she's ever had in a board game. Hey look cute shrimp play this with us. Okay yeah this is oh god why is everything so mean.
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Feb 27, 2020 06:28
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Apparently my copy of Eclipse 2E arrived while I'm away for a work conference. Kinda had forgotten about it since it blew way past its original delivery estimate, but I guess we'll see if it's worth anything.
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Feb 27, 2020 06:38
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silvergoose posted:Finally tried Founders of Gloomhaven. I have thoughts that may have to wait until the morning. I'm keen to hear these thoughts. I like it despite it feeling unfinished and clumsy.
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Feb 27, 2020 09:03
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CommonShore posted:Root just showed up finally. Fuckers. I understand that delays happen and that a bunch of stuff occurred that's tough to predict. My biggest complaint is the constantly moving goal posts. I can deal with a train delay if they straight up say it'll be 30 minutes late and it shows up about 30 minutes later, things get irritating when they keep repeating that it will be 5 more minutes. The boat should've been on its way before LNY and then before the end of every week since then. Not a great look, especially since this is apparently what happened with Vast and they still chose the same company. I'm done grumbling for a while now. Nothing more until the end of next week!
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Feb 27, 2020 09:15
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Mojo Jojo posted:I'm keen to hear these thoughts. I like it despite it feeling unfinished and clumsy. One of us! One of us!
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Feb 27, 2020 11:08
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Mojo Jojo posted:I'm keen to hear these thoughts. I like it despite it feeling unfinished and clumsy. Alright, bit o sleep. Played 3 player with a former coworker whose copy it was and my wife who is every bit into games as me albeit with less wargames/abstracts. Founders of Gloomhaven is a game with like seven mechanics glommed together, but not in a minigame sense. My thoughts aren't really on the game as a whole since it's really hard to gauge something like this after one play, but on the individual mechanics. The main one is the route building resource upgrading thing which I gather is similar in spirit to The Great Zimbabwe. Very interesting and led to some decent interaction with the sharing of resources. Someone who has played both, I'd totally appreciate hearing how tgz actually works and is similar or different. Concordia/Spice Road style hand management, play a card, or play the card that gets you your whole hand back. Love this, it's one of my favorite modern game innovations. Market row, gently caress market rows, even this one that you know everything's coming eventually. Hey my starting resource came right at the start, my wife's was three turns in, sure sucks for her! Blind bid lose everything auction holy poo poo this is my least favorite auction type why why. Why. Worker placement why was this even here? Just so people had a little extra to do with their "I can't follow" turns I guess? Action follow, like PR, race, eotvII, plenty of others. Worked fine. Asymmetric player powers, I'm including this because it did feel a bit like Cosmic or TM/GP. My wife was distinctly unhappy with the market row card associated with her starting resource since it felt actively worse than the base deck card, whereas mine seemed amazing. Having played a ton of GH, seeing various races was neat! Final scores I won with 45, my wife had 44, coworker who taught and has played with his kids at least a few times had 34. The game took almost 4 hours, because every tiny decision felt larger than it needed to. I'm interested as I said in hearing about tgz. I'd play founders again, probably, but I'm not really sure if my wife wants to, and it may be a pretty tough sell to anyone else. I don't think I'd push to teach it, especially if its playtime would be long with new players. I was surprised how cool it felt to play another game in the same universe, given that I'm not that into the universe of Gloomhaven. The buildings, the races.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:09
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Played Tang Garden tonight and it was one of those games that will probably be really exciting for the type of folks who absolutely adore the old fashioned full blown 'German Game' style euros, but it just felt tedious. For a game where you're primarily placing a tile a turn, it was so slow and so bogged down with different mechanisms and weird iconography. For something meant to be all chill and aesthetic, I was just flat out bored.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:32
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Finished my solo game of clinic, had fun with it - things were a little fiddly, physically speaking, especially when it came to moving cars around or picking up nurses/patients from particularly busy rooms. Would've really liked some double-layered boards but that would've raised costs a whole lot. I ended with a halfway decent score (55 or so?), after I realized that the key is to wait until patients get really sick before you treat them. I mean, either you treat them this turn and get $20, or treat them next turn and get $32, so.... But yeah, I liked the decisions that needed to be made regarding taking up precious parking space, who to hire and when, which rooms should get built where, planning out layouts ahead of time so you don't accidentally gently caress yourself out of a park bonus, etc. I can't tell how much player interaction there is, but given that someone can snipe nurses, doctors, patients, and certain rooms out from under you, I can certainly see it being a little cutthroat, especially when you know your opponent has the same service hubs as you do (so, he's also focusing on cardiology patients, for example). And since you reveal your turn's actions simultaneously, it's a very real possibility that someone can simply steal all the things you wanted to get that turn, leaving you with little. Can't wait to try it multiplayer. Also, all the information regarding end-of-turn-admin, business stuff (like costs and such), building restrictions, etc, is clearly printed on the board, which I appreciated as it meant I almost never had to reference the manual.
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Feb 27, 2020 14:52
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I'm going to play Dominant Species tomorrow, with a bunch of experienced players. Any common mistakes I should avoid?
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Feb 27, 2020 15:31
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Fat Samurai posted:I'm going to play Dominant Species tomorrow, with a bunch of experienced players. Any common mistakes I should avoid? The only way the game moves forward is taking the domination action and it's a common mistake to be shy about doing this since it's the last thing to go off. Also drill in everyone's head the difference between the dominant species on a tile and the species with the most presence. Presence is what scores points, dominance is who gets to activate a card.
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Feb 27, 2020 17:00
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To second that point, in the (admittedly few) games I've played, it is not uncommon for the first action selected to be domination
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Feb 27, 2020 17:08
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Domination is how you primarily score points. If you're playing at a player count where a single player could conceivably Dominate more than once, make sure that person is you as often as possible. Controlling the board with Glaciate is also very powerful, so don't be scared at the fact there's a wait list to use it.
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Feb 27, 2020 17:13
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Initiative may seem useless on the last turn, but it lets you move last, which sets up dominations and dominance.
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Feb 27, 2020 17:14
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So I got 2 games of Spirit Island in yesterday that were on complete opposite ends, both were 2 players. I realize that after almost 20 plays I have been far to dismissive of innate powers instead foolishly choosing to focus on power cards for action so I decided to revisit some spirits and focus more on triggering their innate. The first game ended up being 4 rounds vs level 2 France with my friend playing Heart of the Wildfire and me playing Rivers Surges in Sunlight. Man did we just wipe the board with them. It was one of those games where I kept looking for a misplay/broke rule but couldn't find one. The second one had my friend as Spread of Rampant Green and me as Sharp Fangs Behind the Leaves. I really struggled with this game early on because of a combination of event cards and early blighting to a key land on my board preventing me from doing a lot in it. This game was actually won on fear card on three turns from running out of the invader deck. I'm just so amazed that after 20ish plays this game has so much content left for me to discover. Admittedly I was probably to hesitant to roll out adversaries (highest we've done was England at 3) and we still haven't tried scenarios or the thematic side, but even with the base box there is so much content left untouched.
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Feb 27, 2020 17:29
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Fat Samurai posted:I'm going to play Dominant Species tomorrow, with a bunch of experienced players. Any common mistakes I should avoid? You get cards by dominating and some of them are absolutely insane, giving you extra action pawns. Make sure you don't fall on the wrong side of them going off.
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Feb 27, 2020 17:37
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Shadow225 posted:I rate a game's heaviness by play time with some consideration given to rules burden. Under an hour is light, between 1 and 2 hours medium, 2 hours and above heavy. You’re literally describing length, not sure why you would also use that for “weight”. Especially when That leads to really weird results like Talisman and Lisboa both being “heavy” games.
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Feb 27, 2020 17:59
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The investment requested from the others in the activity.
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Feb 27, 2020 18:28
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My copy of Chinatown finally arrived  thanks random Australian ebayer!
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Feb 27, 2020 18:42
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