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. Edit: 127 days to the coronavirus apocalypse. Z the IVth fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Feb 27, 2020 |
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Feb 27, 2020 12:08
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Communist Thoughts posted:Yeah I mean we can't trust a lot of the people behind him, though there are notably also good labour folk behind him too. But I don't think kier is the apocalypse. He's not running on a blairite platform and people itt going "the worst thing is he might win!" that would be good FFS the tories are killing people by the thousand, otherwise we're just being spiteful because we're disappointed in our performance. If he can be prevented from doing that, it's not the end if he wins, but it's still a lot worse than someone who wants to actively keep pushing for a more open party.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:13
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Guavanaut posted:The worst thing is he might win and immediately start realigning the party towards councillors or other reactionary elements, or shrug sadly as the Overton window continues careening right. The Overton window is arguably still moving left. His platform is WAY to the left of pre Corbyn labour. I agree with whoever posted that it's gonna be the job of the left to keep him to that. It's entirely possible posters ITT are right and he's an evil turbo Blair shark man who cannot be negotiated with, but it also might not be the case and if so we don't want to take our ball and go home we want to keep working.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:17
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Mad fudge alchemist.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:19
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Guavanaut posted:We're still far more likely to die at the hands of our own government than through corono trigger, so I'm worrying about that first. I'm not particularly worried about myself, my wife however is quite vulnerable to respiratory infections which is a major reason for said paranoia.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:23
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Whole Milk Alchemist: Brotherhood
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Feb 27, 2020 12:23
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OwlFancier posted:Tempura Fudjit. Now I want to try battering fudge. Genius, madness or something in between?
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Feb 27, 2020 12:31
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Communist Thoughts posted:The Overton window is arguably still moving left. His platform is WAY to the left of pre Corbyn labour. It's still worth fighting, and we still have a lot of the NEC on side. Miftan posted:Mad fudge alchemist.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:32
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Guavanaut posted:It's more possible that he's an eminently reasonable centrist who will prioritize said reasonableness based on who has access to him. That's more worrying than your scenario, given how Miliband came across in triangulation mode compared to being himself, but it's also worrying in that a lot of the people with access to him regard the whole of the past 5 years as evidence that plebs should not be allowed near the levers of power, which drastically reduces the likelihood of the next Labour leader after him being a newer better Corbyn. Yeah agreed. I'm just trying to regain some of that sweet, sweet 2019 optimism and extend a fraction of the benefit of the doubt I (perhaps mistakenly but I'd do it again) gave Corbyn for the last 5 years to other elements of the party that haven't burnt all the bridges between us. It might be naive but its good for my brain health.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:37
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Yeah, my read on Starmer is that he's a party-line windsock - if we can keep him toeing the line that the actual party sets, he might do OK, but it's far more likely he'll be led by the PLP and the central party beauraucracy, which is way more likely to lead him to Sensible Centrism.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:38
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Having never joined the Labour Party I really can't be hosed waiting around to see whether the left can reclaim the leadership and clear out the rightwingers properly this time when I can be spending that energy and attention on necessary struggles now. Good luck and all but don't get so obsessed with infighting that you forget there's capitalism as a system in general to overthrow.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:44
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Z the IVth posted:. Can't believe Jeremy Corbyn invented the coronavirus and accidentally dropped it on China on his way to Israel Edit: Jeremy Covid
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Feb 27, 2020 12:50
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namesake posted:Having never joined the Labour Party I really can't be hosed waiting around to see whether the left can reclaim the leadership and clear out the rightwingers properly this time when I can be spending that energy and attention on necessary struggles now. If you can offer practical suggestions for a better way, we're all ears.
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Feb 27, 2020 12:52
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namesake posted:Having never joined the Labour Party I really can't be hosed waiting around to see whether the left can reclaim the leadership and clear out the rightwingers properly this time when I can be spending that energy and attention on necessary struggles now. Tired: dying before capitalism ends Wired: voting and infighting to pass the time before dying before capitalism ends As an aside I've been watching the dem primaries as a balm and its kinda embarassing but I think nearly every one of their candidates is more impressive or charming than any of ours, even the Klob. Apart from bloomburg lol. All but one of them wants to stop sick people from getting treatment though so I guess that's the trade off.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:01
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thespaceinvader posted:If you can offer practical suggestions for a better way, we're all ears. There's a really really strong case to make that legislation is not what leads society, instead it lags behind the power struggles in society which then legislation eventually updates to reflect the expectations and needs of the society - I.e. organised working class movements came together and made demands of their employers and fought against them which then eventually let to the legal recognition of trade unions and then eventually the Labour Party, gay rights groups organised and campaigned for the legalisation of homosexuality, environmental groups tried to save the planet long before there was a environment section in party manifestos. So if you care about something then go out into the world and build a strong movement demanding it happen on your terms, letting some political groups come and associate themselves if they want and then whenever some electoral thing comes around use the movement and power it has to demand that all participants promise to support your cause and if they turn out to be poo poo then keep using the power the movement has to wreck them, either by entryism or outright replacing them.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:05
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Camrath posted:To cut across all the serious talk, may I just interject with this- there’s nothing for making a business feel real like receiving your first proper business cards. Is this in London?
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Feb 27, 2020 13:05
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Starmer will be somewhere between a Milliband and a Kinnock. Also lol at someone who never joined the biggest hope the left had in the past 30 years smugly sitting out and saying there's more important poo poo to do.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:06
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namesake posted:There's a really really strong case to make that legislation is not what leads society, instead it lags behind the power struggles in society which then legislation eventually updates to reflect the expectations and needs of the society - I.e. organised working class movements came together and made demands of their employers and fought against them which then eventually let to the legal recognition of trade unions and then eventually the Labour Party, gay rights groups organised and campaigned for the legalisation of homosexuality, environmental groups tried to save the planet long before there was a environment section in party manifestos. Ah yes. Build a movement. Why didn't I think of that? It's all very well to offer big-picture ideas, but I'm one person doing the best I can in a system that built itself to prevent people building movements. So this isn't really a practical suggestion, is it?
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Feb 27, 2020 13:10
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someone in yospos linked a site, which has this fine gif:
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Feb 27, 2020 13:10
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sinky posted:someone in yospos linked a site, which has this fine gif: Fine #86/68 energy there
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Feb 27, 2020 13:13
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Communist Thoughts posted:The Overton window is arguably still moving left. His platform is WAY to the left of pre Corbyn labour. He's saying what he needs to say to get elected but if you'd not trust a used car salesman blindly I don't know why you'd trust someone who quit over the chicken coup.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:15
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sinky posted:someone in yospos linked a site, which has this fine gif: thespaceinvader posted:It's all very well to offer big-picture ideas, but I'm one person doing the best I can in a system that built itself to prevent people building movements. You can do that alongside caring about the state of left politics though, so it's not an either-or thing. It's also pretty bad at influencing macroeconomic or macrosocial effects unless the movements get very big.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:17
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forkboy84 posted:He's saying what he needs to say to get elected but if you'd not trust a used car salesman blindly I don't know why you'd trust someone who quit over the chicken coup. I don't really trust him, but Id hope kiers team knows that whatever they do they need the left on board as well as the centre. I'm sure that there are a LOT of plp types that want to roll back the membership participation stuff but it would be a really really bad move right now and kier doesn't strike me as reckless and stupid, I could deffo be wrong though. The large, engaged membership is arguably the one good thing to come out of the last 5 years so it'd be stupid to get rid of it and they must know that. Since I'm not going to vote for him, and otherwise I can't have any further effect on his chances, I'm gonna hope for the best if he does win anyway. E basically atm I don't think this is the doom death of labour scenario that, say, a jessflaps win woulda been
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Feb 27, 2020 13:30
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Nothingtoseehere posted:Also lol at someone who never joined the biggest hope the left had in the past 30 years smugly sitting out and saying there's more important poo poo to do. Don't be ridiculous, i was a supporter, I went canvassing for him and actually ended up getting interviewed by AFP in support of him because I can see the benefits of the Corbynist project but there's no parliamentary road to socialism. Guavanaut posted:It's also pretty bad at influencing macroeconomic or macrosocial effects unless the movements get very big. Nothing has ever had a big movement appear overnight, Corbyns support had centuries of labour activism and radical politics and theory all combine in a freak event. You build power where you are and you make changes when you start to use it.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:32
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That's why it's more important to look for existing movements that are closely aligned with what you want to achieve, rather than pulling movements fully formed from the seafoam.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:48
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namesake posted:Nothing has ever had a big movement appear overnight, Corbyns support had centuries of labour activism and radical politics and theory all combine in a freak event. You build power where you are and you make changes when you start to use it. You want us to stay put and start the centuries long process of starting to do socialism? Was hoping for a little more ambition.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:53
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Chuka Umana posted:Is this in London? Yup.
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Feb 27, 2020 13:56
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Camrath posted:Yup. If you see an American walk in with giant dark circles under their eyes and looking like they just got back from putting their dog down it's me. Too bad with the coronavirus I probably won't be able to get to London until late spring/summer.
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Feb 27, 2020 14:03
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Guavanaut posted:That's why it's more important to look for existing movements that are closely aligned with what you want to achieve, rather than pulling movements fully formed from the seafoam. Yeah of course but you can't just say "Well that's the Labour Party then." and devote all your energy into clearing out the right wing because at best all you've done is set the stage for what you actually need to do - convince the public that what you're trying to do is good and get them to support that. You're allowed to go directly to the people and allow the working class to organise and hold power themselves.
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Feb 27, 2020 14:09
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Guavanaut posted:Halloween decorations sorted. It's almost like I was responding to someone rather than suggesting something. I'm a member of several organisations that campaign for the kind of things I want (hell, I'm starting work for one of them in three days), but namesake was suggesting that those movements (or at least, one major one) aren't worth joining and we should build a different one. I get supremely frustrated when I ask for practical solutions and I get big ideas, making GBS threads all over existing mechanisms, and proposing pie-in-the-sky new ones, without an actual, practical thought in sight. namesake posted:Yeah of course but you can't just say "Well that's the Labour Party then." and devote all your energy into clearing out the right wing because at best all you've done is set the stage for what you actually need to do - convince the public that what you're trying to do is good and get them to support that. You're allowed to go directly to the people and allow the working class to organise and hold power themselves. Again, HOW?! What actual, practical THING are you suggesting that people should do? Becasue 'go directly to the people and allow them to organise and hold power' isn't a specific, practical thing I can put on some shoes, step outside my door, and do, is it?
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Feb 27, 2020 14:10
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thespaceinvader posted:Again, HOW?! I can't be precise because I don't know anything about you, where you are or what specifically you care about. Think about some injustice in the country or issue in your area, talk to people you know about it, go and join a pre existing organisation with a focus on tackling it directly rather than electing officials or start one of your own if there isn't one, think about what needs to change and who can change it and then go and start being a pain in their lives until they do what you want.
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Feb 27, 2020 14:25
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Camrath posted:To cut across all the serious talk, may I just interject with this- there’s nothing for making a business feel real like receiving your first proper business cards. No ring. I wish I liked fudge, but find it way too sweet normally.  In other news we just got asked to confirm who can work from home; I'm guessing it was a management cascade rather than just querying our team. I admit I have a twinge of concern because I had bronchitis as a baby and my lungs have never been great.
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Feb 27, 2020 14:26
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Camrath posted:Now I want to try battering fudge. Come to Scotland. We'll not just batter it, we'll deep fry it as well.
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Feb 27, 2020 14:33
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Jedit posted:Come to Scotland. We'll not just batter it, we'll deep fry it as well. And then just throw it in the bin and give you tablet instead
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Feb 27, 2020 14:35
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I follow Jonathan Cook and he's posting links to Craig Murray's reporting on the Assange trial. I haven't read any yet. I note to myself that I have been thinking of Assange as 'a bit of a twat'. When I asked myself why I think this, it is purely from what I have absorbed from headlines and snippets in MSM and I've never really read in any detail. It may be that he really is a bit of a twat but my opinion on him - which I now realize is worthless - is based on practically nothing. I feel like that talking bomb in Dark Star (and the guy talking to him - simultaneously). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h73PsFKtIck
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Feb 27, 2020 14:38
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Jedit posted:Come to Scotland. We'll not just batter it, we'll deep fry it as well. Lived in Aberdeen for the first half of my twenties, and aside from deep fried steak and gravy pies from one of the chippers on King St, I manifestly failed to try any deep fried obscenities. I was a fool. forkboy84 posted:And then just throw it in the bin and give you tablet instead Oddly, while I was experimenting with vegan recipes I managed to create vegan tablet without intending to. I guess it’s down to using milk (or equivalent) rather than cream. Camrath fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Feb 27, 2020 |
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Feb 27, 2020 14:40
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I follow Jonathan Cook and he's posting links to Craig Murray's reporting on the Assange trial. I haven't read any yet. I mean, he's probably a sex pest, so it's understandable. The vast majority of the discussion I've seen abotu him has hinged on whether it's appropriate to extradite him to Sweden to face charges around that, or whether that risks him then subsequently being sent to the US where he will be tried, convicted, memory holed, and tortured for releasing documents proving that they're war criminals.
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Feb 27, 2020 14:42
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In extremely important news, the UK's Eurovision entry is...a song of some kind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iS-lV909T4 I'm quite fond of the video though. Clearly wasn't filmed in the UK, but it does have a dog.
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Feb 27, 2020 14:49
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Currently watching Snackmasters on C4, y'all should watch the second episode to see how Monster Munch is made, interspersed with chefs completely failing to recreate it. Good watch.
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Feb 27, 2020 14:58
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Tablet is awful, like yeah I want really brittle, dry fudge that tastes like wethers original.
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Feb 27, 2020 15:03
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