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Source your, uh, quotes? Screeds? My taint is reaped from reading those Namaste الله أكبر
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Jan 17, 2020 04:44
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:simply being able to avoid ALL PLAYER INTERACTION simply by looking at a chat window is absolutely awful game design and balance. You keep saying this but it's entirely untrue, ganking happened before blackout just fine. But like I say, please feel free to let this awful mechanic keep you from multi-boxing this mobile game, maybe try Second Galaxy?
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Jan 17, 2020 13:08
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:First of all, all these assumptions are incorrect: you can easily fit a ratting ship to survive pvp encounters, but GOD FORBID ratters hurt their efficiency by 20% to do so! This is a classic carebear highsec pubbie argument- I should be able to fit all the PvE modules I want and should never have to plan around PvPers, and for the most part everyone is able to do this because local existed. Also, god forbid people cooperate and work together to accomplish their goals instead of being able to avoid 100% of interaction simply by looking at a window that alerts them the second a threat presents itself. Your post strikes me as a person who has a brief understanding of eve online but who has actually never hunted in nullsec- I'd like to see your killboard of your massive fleet engagements and a handful of solo pvp kills that are almost exclusively throwaway frigates. My killboard is easily available just search for Skex on zkill. Interestingly while I don't know your EvE character's name(s) I did take a gander through CODE.'s (that's your crew right?) killboard and I'm not seeing a bunch of challenging fights where any real risks were taken, all I see are a bunch of lopsided ganks and concordorking, tell me again how exactly does a Covetor fit to fight off a PVP fit ship again? Exactly how challenging is it to gank a ratter in a pirate battleship? As far the "assumptions" they aren't incorrect, your own arguments support them you just argue that people should nerf their own efficiency at their chosen activity in order to accommodate yours by demeaning the idea that someone might want to maximize their efficiency which is the very definition of an emotional appeal. Tell me in what way do you have to gimp your PvP fit to gank ratters? Do you have to run specialized fits for that compared to your other PvP activities? There is nothing wrong with my assumptions you just have an emotional argument against the conclusion because it's inconvenient to your position. Let me make it easier for you, just think of local as an automated constant limited d-scan of the system. All it tells you is if there is someone else in the system and if they are an ally or not, it doesn't tell you whether or not there is anyone next door waiting to jump in. it doesn't tell you what kind of ship they are in, it just tells you their name and standings the most important bit of which is whether or not they are blue so it's also an IFF. Further it's only useful if someone is paying attention to it, plenty of ratters die because they weren't paying attention to local because there were busy concentrating on something else during those critical moments, there's a nice thread in the goonfleet forums devoted to cap pilots who managed to get their shinies killed because they were idiots who couldn't be bothered to follow some basic instructions. Any additional utility of local comes from using intel channels by *Gasp* interacting and cooperating with other players. It's also kind of  that you dismiss fleet and gang warfare experience while whining about people trying to avoid player interaction, Shooting people isn't the only way to interact with other players in this game. Joining fleets, gangs, corporations, alliances and sharing information are as well, in fact they are the main way to interact with other players. You want delayed/no local because it gives the aggressor an additional advantage, which is stupid because most the advantages are already given to the aggressor in PvP. the window of warning that local gives the prey is the only advantage that they have during said engagement. that short window where if they are paying attention and react quickly enough they can escape your clutches and you want that removed so that you have an even bigger advantage. And no D scan isn't an answer, even a lovely prober like myself can scan a ship down in less than a minute and a good one will have you pretty well locked down well before a combat probe shows up on dscan. I was able to catch and kill plenty of victims with local available in EE and I didn't need an eight ship fleet to do it so I guess I just don't view it as the same handicap that you do. Skex fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 19:30
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Killing players who have literally no idea what they're doing isn't a sign of game balance, quite the opposite actually if skilled* people can manage 15+ accounts perfectly fine with zero losses for years (back before I was instantly rich I ratted with 20 characters, never had losses outside of times I literally went to subway to get a sandwich because i was bored). I'm not a fan of exclusively killing bottom of the barrel people, I want to be able to kill more than just newbies or AFKers, I want to actually be able to interact with the other 99% of players thank you.Skex posted:My killboard is easily available just search for Skex on zkill. you have exactly zero hunting kills, you literally cannot make this poo poo up Skex posted:I did take a gander through CODE.'s (that's your crew right?) killboard and I'm not seeing a bunch of challenging fights where any real risks were taken, all I see are a bunch of lopsided ganks and concordorking ah, i can see your constant misunderstanding, you've been told things about me that aren't true Skex posted:Let me make it easier for you, just think of local as an automated constant limited d-scan of the system. All it tells you is if there is someone else in the system and if they are an ally or not, it doesn't tell you whether or not there is anyone next door waiting to jump in. it doesn't tell you what kind of ship they are in, it just tells you their name and standings the most important bit of which is whether or not they are blue so it's also an IFF. Further it's only useful if someone is paying attention to it, plenty of ratters die because they weren't paying attention to local because there were busy concentrating on something else during those critical moments, there's a nice thread in the goonfleet forums devoted to cap pilots who managed to get their shinies killed because they were idiots who couldn't be bothered to follow some basic instructions. Any additional utility of local comes from using intel channels by *Gasp* interacting and cooperating with other players. thanks for local: 101 the system that instantly tells you whenever hostiles are present in your system which allows the operation of quite literally thousands of bots and thousands of multiboxed alt farms. Skex posted:It's also kind of I never dismissed fleet and gang warfare experience as being a good or legitimate thing, I'm saying that you have -zero- actual experience hunting in nullsec as a hunter, and as such should probably be less vocal about systems you know nothing about. Skex posted:You want delayed/no local because it gives the aggressor an additional advantage, which is stupid because most the advantages are already given to the aggressor in PvP. the window of warning that local gives the prey is the only advantage that they have during said engagement. that short window where if they are paying attention and react quickly enough they can escape your clutches and you want that removed so that you have an even bigger advantage. And no D scan isn't an answer, even a lovely prober like myself can scan a ship down in less than a minute and a good one will have you pretty well locked down well before a combat probe shows up on dscan. The defender has a far superior advantage that isn't fully realized because- guess what- local exists and makes any other form of defense obsolete because 99% of ratters NEVER DIE while actually playing the game. Imagine not thinking the 20 people in system aren't capable of helping each other when a single or small group of hostiles enters the system, there are already groups in eve which excelled in environments where local is diminished and it's because players worked together and participated on comms with each other. Even if local was diminished, the defenders still had a large advantage over the attacker. Think about it like this: A ratting myrm costs about 20 million ISK after insurance at worst, and can make that up in about 20 minutes of ratting. It's quite literally pure profit, and the chance a hunter actually comes around to the vast majority of systems in eve is rare. There are programs that are widely used in eve that scan the local window and immediately notify the pilot of the threat, allowing him to not even have to pay attention to be completely safe. I myself had an isboxer plugin where not only did notify me, it would maximize the clients in the effected system and right click in space, opening the menu for me. I was never at any threat at any point in my management of 20+ accounts. Try and play eve online and hunt ratters, go for it. It will be frustrating seeing that 99% of ratters immediately warp off, and the ones you do catch are straight up newbros who didn't understand the game, or people eating their mcdonalds burger in their living room with their family not realizing that one of the six people hunting ratters currently in the game happened to be in his system during his 20 minute food break. I'm telling you as someone who has extensively hunted, cloaky camped, and metagamed groups- local is a total cancer that causes people to not play when they see a threat, instead of play the game. A simple 60-180 second delay would fix the majority of these problems, and a buff to the PvE to make it more rewarding would make it more enticing for plebians to participate in.
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Jan 17, 2020 20:16
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in CODE lol ok boomer
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Jan 17, 2020 20:18
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Aramoro posted:But like I say, please feel free to let this awful mechanic keep you from multi-boxing this mobile game, maybe try Second Galaxy? this is the second nonsensical post you've made in the last couple pages, maybe proof read what you post?
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Jan 17, 2020 20:19
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Good Dumplings posted:lol ok boomer zoom zoom
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Jan 17, 2020 20:19
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ok, to put this on a non suck-rear end topic - globby, if there was non-dogshit bumping in this game, how long would you estimate it'd take for the devs to begin persecuting gankers. alternately how long do you think it'll take for them to monetize ganking because that's the wave of the future right there
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Jan 17, 2020 20:22
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Good Dumplings posted:ok, to put this on a non suck-rear end topic - globby, if there was non-dogshit bumping in this game, how long would you estimate it'd take for the devs to begin persecuting gankers. alternately how long do you think it'll take for them to monetize ganking because that's the wave of the future right there there are no freighters, so bumping really has no place also the devs did already persecute gankers, the CEO called me out on discord via PM because i was suicide ganking via drones using a bug, and had me 'talk' to one of his buddies we truly are oppressed gamers
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Jan 17, 2020 20:29
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"I want to be able to interact with other people, which is why I multi-box 20 accounts"
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Jan 17, 2020 21:12
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Local is supported by the lore, that's all I need to know why it exists and I'm cool with that idea  it makes sense with the gate system
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Jan 18, 2020 06:47
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Skex posted:"I want to be able to interact with other people, which is why I multi-box 20 accounts" "I wish the meta wasn't mass multiboxing and botting in nullsec because that's trash gameplay that only exists because of local chat." you're just being dishonest now
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Jan 18, 2020 11:47
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Skex posted:It's also kind of The only gangs he's joining are his own multiboxed alts so that's why he doesn't count it as player interaction.
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Jan 18, 2020 12:52
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Aramoro posted:The only gangs he's joining are his own multiboxed alts so that's why he doesn't count it as player interaction. at least this is an actual sentence gj buddy
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Jan 18, 2020 19:31
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I think it's useful to look to Bartle's classification of MUD players here. He identified a distinction between people who primarily wanted to interact with other players (classifying them as "socializers") and people who primarily wanted to act on other players (classifying them as "killers"). The redtext dude that the rest of you have spent the last page arguing with is clearly in the latter category.
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Jan 18, 2020 20:23
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yeah but also globby dumb
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Jan 18, 2020 21:42
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EVE Echoes - Burn your phone with Jita
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Jan 18, 2020 23:42
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Burn EvE - Echoes your Jita with phone. This is the eve thread I know, this is the eve thread I love.
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Jan 19, 2020 01:54
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No PvP in highsec, completely busted warp core stabilizers, and no plans to change local chat i think this game is gonna be dead on arrival unless the sov system is killer
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Jan 19, 2020 22:59
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If you already hate the game so much, do us all a favour.
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Jan 21, 2020 18:40
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Evernoob posted:If you already hate the game so much, do us all a favour. i never said i hated it, please relax boomer
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Jan 23, 2020 08:40
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:No PvP in highsec, completely busted warp core stabilizers, and no plans to change local chat Whats the deal with local chat in the game?
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Feb 27, 2020 17:40
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Sneak Lemming posted:Whats the deal with local chat in the game? it exists
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Feb 27, 2020 18:26
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Is it even worth to check eve echoes out? I think it's quite hard to do fleet pvp on the smartphone. Sounds like solo pvp and solo crabbing to me.
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Feb 28, 2020 07:53
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Sneak Lemming posted:Whats the deal with local chat in the game? One of the biggest issue in eve online is the incredible access to information about the whereabouts and capabilities of other players (ie, you are ALWAYS aware of when a hostile is in system with you). This causes a meta of 'PvE while it's safe' and 'do nothing when it's not' and also has secondary effects of making botting and mass multiboxing super effective. Because eve is so massive (5000+ nullsec systems) it's generally not possible interdict the money making opportunity of even a small group and have it be worth it unless you yourself have dozens of alts to camp their space. It also skews the reward in such a way that it has to be incredibly low for a single account because it's really easy to have 20 accounts making money for you at the same time. This sucks for new players, active players, and players with a small number of accounts. The issue gets even further exacerbated by third party programs that communicate who and where every potential hostile is, so you can tell when an enemy is a couple jumps out from you giving you time to turn the TV off, take the pizza rolls out of the oven to cool, take a piss and warp your 20 accounts off to safety. A small fix, such as delaying local from showing players by a certain amount of time would be more than enough to fix this issue. I would propose delaying a person from appearing in local for 180 seconds after they jump in, and introducing structures that can reduce that time to 120/60/15 seconds depending on how heavily it is upgraded. This structure would also be relatively easy to kill with a small gang (3-8), forcing it to only really exist where there is a constant presence of defenders. Also, you'd be able to introduce meaningful rewards to nullsec now that it's not spam farmed by bots and multiboxers. Chalkece posted:Is it even worth to check eve echoes out? I think it's quite hard to do fleet pvp on the smartphone. Sounds like solo pvp and solo crabbing to me. Beta is over, Q3 release as long as corona virus doesn't delay it further.
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Feb 28, 2020 08:15
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Sneak Lemming posted:Whats the deal with local chat in the game? It's fine. Dude is just super mad that he can't multibox his way to easy ganks.
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Feb 28, 2020 08:50
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Hello Sailor posted:It's fine. Dude is just super mad that he can't multibox his way to easy ganks. has absolutely nothing to do with local lmao but nice try
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Feb 28, 2020 09:03
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Yeah, weird how absolutely no one is reading any of your manifestos about it to find out what your specific problems are, right? Take a loving hint.
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Feb 28, 2020 14:55
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Hello Sailor posted:Yeah, weird how absolutely no one is reading any of your manifestos about it to find out what your specific problems are, right? Take a loving hint. maybe you should take a chill pill friendo, i have no idea who you are but you seem awfully pissed off about well thought out discussion. you don't have to read my posts, in fact there are options available to you that let you never have to see them again if discussion of game mechanics is that infuriating to you
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Feb 28, 2020 15:31
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So even after changing local almost destroyed the playerbase of PC eve, you still think its a good idea? Crying about local is a years old tradition at this point. I actually thought the problem with local would be that it was delayed or worked weird. What you're describing is a non-issue.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:59
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Sneak Lemming posted:So even after changing local almost destroyed the playerbase of PC eve, you still think its a good idea? yes, EE doesn't have the cultural baggage and history of EO with regards to multiboxing and botting. cmon, there are tens of thousands of bots in EO, you're telling me a playerbase drop of 10% in a change that makes botting in nullsec infeasible wouldn't be expected? quote:It also skews the reward in such a way that it has to be incredibly low for a single account because it's really easy to have 20 accounts making money for you at the same time. This sucks for new players, active players, and players with a small number of accounts. The issue gets even further exacerbated by third party programs that communicate who and where every potential hostile is, so you can tell when an enemy is a couple jumps out from you giving you time to turn the TV off, take the pizza rolls out of the oven to cool, take a piss and warp your 20 accounts off to safety. 1001 Arabian dicks fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Feb 28, 2020 |
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Feb 28, 2020 17:04
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What I heard from Eve players who were playing during the Blackout, was that it was miserable and boring. Everyone likes to point to botters but from what I was told, it was non-bot players who dropped the game hard during that time. I don't think you can easily separate the Eve "baggage" with Echoes. The core players of Echoes will most likely be current or ex-eve online players. Think of all the people who quit eve proper and see this game as a way to casually join back in, fresh. Plus if the early numbers are accurate, then Echoes is going to attract a large audience at first. Problem is, mobile games have really bad retention issues. Lots of people play a little for a short period, few people play a lot for a long period. Changing Eve mechanics to be more punishing and hardcore isn't how to retain the thousands of people who will be going ankle deep. If Echoes is a success or turns into some cultural phenomenon, then sure, let them take the game to weird new places. The attraction for Echoes however, is that it's eve, but you can poop while playing.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:21
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Sneak Lemming posted:What I heard from Eve players who were playing during the Blackout, was that it was miserable and boring. The reaction to blackout was VERY positive accross the board (on reddit, on the official forums) and brought many players back to the game who haven't played seriously in years. The only people I really heard complaining were the mass multiboxers who relied on said multiboxing in nullsec for income, botters, alliance leadership noticing the dip in taxes, and people who don't play the game any more. Sneak Lemming posted:Everyone likes to point to botters but from what I was told, it was non-bot players who dropped the game hard during that time. It's pretty undebatable that the majority of the 'people' who 'quit' were botters or mass multiboxers. For a game that bans over 40,000 bots a year it's easily explainable that 1000 of the PCU was bots, which would account for a huge chunk of the drop, and this doesn't even get into mass multiboxers yet. Sneak Lemming posted:I don't think you can easily separate the Eve "baggage" with Echoes. The core players of Echoes will most likely be current or ex-eve online players. Think of all the people who quit eve proper and see this game as a way to casually join back in, fresh. Eve players were a minority of the beta, they had polls and it was something like 22% of the players played eve online beyond 'trying it once'. Sneak Lemming posted:Plus if the early numbers are accurate, then Echoes is going to attract a large audience at first. Problem is, mobile games have really bad retention issues. Lots of people play a little for a short period, few people play a lot for a long period. Changing Eve mechanics to be more punishing and hardcore isn't how to retain the thousands of people who will be going ankle deep. All the more reason to not have gameplay be relegated purely to timer battles and "OH BOY I HOPE THAT AT LEAST ONE PERSON IN THE ENEMY SPACE IS AFK SO I CAN GET A KILL". There needs to be meaningful non-consensual content in nullsec or you're going to end up with the same status quo of eve online being cloaky campers, multibox ratters, and new players literally only existing because they're given handouts because nullsec is so horribly unprofitable for a normal individual. You should want a living breathing universe, not a 'this is when i can play because trying at any other time is pointless unless my opponents are literally out getting icecream when i attempt to kill them.' There are ways you can make it less hardcore but give agency to an attacker.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:50
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globby is basically colonel kurtz from apocalypse now but for freighter bumping, it be like it do
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Feb 28, 2020 18:41
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Personally, I liked being able to poop while playing this and that the lasers went *pew* and the missiles went *woosh*
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Feb 29, 2020 03:06
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PathAsc posted:Personally, I liked being able to poop while playing this and that the lasers went *pew* and the missiles went *woosh* there's a new thread title in there somewhere... but yes.
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Mar 2, 2020 20:36
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:Eve players were a minority of the beta, they had polls and it was something like 22% of the players played eve online beyond 'trying it once'. Yeah I heard from a lot of eve players who started with eve echoes and now wanna try eve for the pc. Feels like we need a xbox and PS4/5 version of the game. But I think they will never do it because of the ugly controls.
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Mar 3, 2020 13:31
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Delayed Local is not really an option for echoes, as long as we don't have a directional scanner. I am also wondering : what is the different between lowsec and nullsec without Security Level hits? If the only different is gate/station guns, I'm actually pretty fine with it. Oh yeah, I suppose Nullsec will pretty much be an extension of NPC nullsec? Can't claim Sov in Nullsec in Eve:O, right?
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Mar 6, 2020 11:43
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Evernoob posted:Delayed Local is not really an option for echoes, as long as we don't have a directional scanner. how do you figure?
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Mar 6, 2020 11:56
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1001 Arabian dicks posted:how do you figure? Without a d scanner you have literally zero way to counter play someone who is roaming via staying on your toes. Sitting alts on gates does not protect you from people who log in inside your system. What exactly would be the point of doing anything if you could be poo poo on by someone who login bombed your rear end even though you had the gates locked down by alts because they moved in during your off TZ? In wormholes you can crit the wormholes and remove spurious that aren't your static connections to increase your safety when you're not online, but in k-space you can't do that, and are vulnerable to whatever someone can get through on you. I get that you are psychologically incapable and of seeing the other side of someone who might want to do something other than be poo poo on by someone who poop socks harder than them, but if they want echoes to have any sort of viability and make money, they're going to be keeping poo poo that allows more casual players to engage in a meaningful way that is something other than being meat. However, from what I experienced in the beta, most pubbies in echoes are incredibly, unimaginably dumb, and local or no local you can just loving murder them on undocks while they scream obscenities at you. orange juche fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Mar 6, 2020 |
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Mar 6, 2020 12:41
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