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Tiggum posted:This show really seems to love splitting up the crew. That book was pretty wild - the main bad guy was a normal dude who got caught in a Reality Quake and mutated into a horrible monster and was banished because of it, and there's like 3 different Space Mysticisms going on at the same time. Coville wrote some crazy stuff, his short horror story collections had some genuinely creepy/disturbing stuff in there (not all written by him I guess though). Plus the My Teacher Is An Alien series was literally about aliens deciding if the Earth is too hosed up to allow to exist; at one point the alien teacher takes the 2 kid main characters to Africa and they literally watch a person starve to death  RE: the age scanner technology, I assumed it was some sort of radioisotope analyzer - isn't that how they do super-accurate dating nowadays? also lol at Picard being an old man on the internet 
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Feb 28, 2020 15:26
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Oh one neat detail, when they're looking for Soji we see things from Hugh's point of view for like half a second and everything is overlaid with borg AR.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:32
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MikeJF posted:Oh one neat detail, when they're looking for Soji we see things from Hugh's point of view for like half a second and everything is overlaid with borg AR. It would be interesting if you never quite got rid of that, and it just made less "sense" like a phantom limb. You're just taking a sonic shower and it's like GERANIUMS SEVEN METERS HOUSECAT ALERT RADIATION LEVELS AT HOT DOG SCAN RESULT BLUE RED YELLOW ACTIVATE SWITCH? ACTIVATE SWITCH? DOMESTIC EQUINE 30 METERS Also just this chatroom full of "people" all made up by an aimless chip butting against neurons.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:38
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Seriously, watching that Raffi scene again, it's really REALLY hosed up. She's clutching a booze bottle, hitting the snake leaf, fucks over an old friend, burns the friendship, falls out of her chair afterwards and needs to be carried back to her bunk. Elron looks concerned, Jurati looks disturbed (but then she always looks disturbed,) and there's JL, clapping, happy as a pig in poo poo that he's getting what he wants, while the music triumphantly swells into the TNG fanfare. And then, THEN, a good chunk of the second half of the episode is dedicated to him facing his trauma and being helped through it, entirely unlike he just completely ignored Raffi's trauma.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:43
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TheCenturion posted:Seriously, watching that Raffi scene again, it's really REALLY hosed up. She's clutching a booze bottle, hitting the snake leaf, fucks over an old friend, burns the friendship, falls out of her chair afterwards and needs to be carried back to her bunk. Elron looks concerned, Jurati looks disturbed (but then she always looks disturbed,) and there's JL, clapping, happy as a pig in poo poo that he's getting what he wants, while the music triumphantly swells into the TNG fanfare. Everything surrounding Raffi is very weird, I don't know what the show is going for - which is disappointing as the actor seems to really care about it.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:44
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Picard gets a little Ahabby around Borgs
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Feb 28, 2020 15:48
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Yeah the musical cues have have been baffling at times. From overpoweringly saccharine to bringing in classic themes at really inappropriate points. Whoever's getting the final say on these moments (probably not the individual episode director unless they're using those cues as temp tracks too) is kind of tone deaf.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:51
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Thom12255 posted:Everything surrounding Raffi is very weird, I don't know what the show is going for - which is disappointing as the actor seems to really care about it. The actress is fantastic. Then there's the whole part where JL shows up on the cube, reunites with Hugh, wants something from him, and Hugh, despite literally owing his existence to Picard and being 100% willing to help him, still can't help but throw in a little 'you know, fellow person who was reclaimed after being assimilated, having somebody with your name and reputation advocating for XB rights would have been nice. Anywho, who did you say you were looking for? Not going to lie, I'd watch Star Trek: Hugh, basically Hugh as a kinder House, helping reclaim Borg.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:53
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Thom12255 posted:Everything surrounding Raffi is very weird, I don't know what the show is going for - which is disappointing as the actor seems to really care about it. She’s the worst character by far, even if the actress is trying. I’m not sure at all what they are trying to do. Like it goes from one scene where she is drunk and high and there is borderline comedy music to another where she is crying in bed about her estranged son.
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Feb 28, 2020 15:56
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FlamingLiberal posted:I cringe every time she shows up on screen How can you say that when we also have stupid sexy sister in the show?! I have to resist the urge to fastforward her scenes. Instead I play mental bingo for all her Cersei-light quirks. Raffi may be an unfocused mess of cliche and tonal dissonance, but poo poo at least there's some range.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:02
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Yeah but weirdly the tonal dissonance is mostly in how others react to her, she's been pretty steady on the "my life is a wreck/I'm giving it one last shot with my son/welp my life is still a wreck" path herself.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:07
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Now we know why they insisted on those transparent monitors, or we would never have gotten that shot!  Romulan world-building continues: Romulans don't even tell people their real name, and maintain 3 different identities, I mean of course they do that. Romulans getting very nicely fleshed out in Picard and it does a decent job of it (warrior nuns I'm still on the fence about)
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Feb 28, 2020 16:20
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TheCenturion posted:Seriously, watching that Raffi scene again, it's really REALLY hosed up. She's clutching a booze bottle, hitting the snake leaf, fucks over an old friend, burns the friendship, falls out of her chair afterwards and needs to be carried back to her bunk. Elron looks concerned, Jurati looks disturbed (but then she always looks disturbed,) and there's JL, clapping, happy as a pig in poo poo that he's getting what he wants, while the music triumphantly swells into the TNG fanfare. It strikes me that so much of this is about Picard's mistakes in overlooking the smaller experiences/lives in his larger-than-life, grand quests. When he's rebuked, when something doesn't go his way, he seems unable to let go of his vision of what must be done. He'll even quit entirely and fume rather than accept a diminished vision. And he hasn't left that in the past. The vaguest whiff of being a hero and protector, he's right on it but ignoring all the feet he's stepping on to get there in his quest. Hell, next season will just be Picard cleaning up the messes he made in this one, and then the next and so on.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:29
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We also got some old fashioned Star Trek morals on modern events in this episode refering to XBs not as monsters, but victims, which is going to be a reference to the current refugee crisis. It's easy to think that former Borg would absolutely face very uncomfortable racism, what with them being a lovecraftian level horror to the people of this galaxy. But it's a very important thing to point out with the Borg that's easy for the audience (and characters) to forget, every drone is a tragic victim. It's good of this show to make that obvious
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Feb 28, 2020 16:31
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After that episode I'm still pretty much on the 'the ex-borg are an analogy for the ex-ISIS detention camps in Syria'. There're full of people who used to be part of a totalitarian regime, the rest of the world wants nothing to do with them and certainly isn't interested in seriously rehabilitating them, and their prison guards are themselves internally displaced persons in a near-failed state.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:32
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NZAmoeba posted:Now we know why they insisted on those transparent monitors, or we would never have gotten that shot! Casting a Romulan character as a slimy boyfriend was a brilliant decision.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:38
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NZAmoeba posted:Romulans don't even tell people their real name, and maintain 3 different identities
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Feb 28, 2020 16:40
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Mooseontheloose posted:Casting a Romulan character as a slimy boyfriend was a brilliant decision. Can you imagine how hellish it must be to be a Romulan teenager?
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Feb 28, 2020 16:40
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Interesting to see that one of the few brands to survive the nuclear holocaust and not change in 400 years is the Jack Daniel's Corporation.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:49
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NZAmoeba posted:Now we know why they insisted on those transparent monitors, or we would never have gotten that shot! To be fair, that goes way back to the Enterprise Incident TOS episode. But I do feel like they're drawing on some of Diane Duane's EU take on Romulans; My Enemy, My Ally, The Romulan Way, Swordhunt, and I forget the fourth, off hand. Oh, and The Empty Chair.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:49
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Brawnfire posted:Can you imagine how hellish it must be to be a Romulan teenager? And yet they still seem like a healthier culture than the Vulcans.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:49
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The Bloop posted:This seems like the end goal of the series Really hope you're right. All the pieces are there for sure. Retrowave Joe posted:How many times in classic Trek did the plot involve someone being kidnapped off the ship and the computer never bothered to alert anyone that someone was no longer aboard? It's even more amazing because the computer seems to know! which is almost creepier. She's always watching, always knows, but she'll never act until explicitly asked. The computer could witness a murder, but unless someone actually thought to specifically ask "oy computah, didja see da murda?" it will just stay silent.
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Feb 28, 2020 16:56
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That's probably the only way to reconcile any sense of privacy with having a computer that instantly responds to voice commands. Those hard drives must be constantly writing over hundreds of hours of internal sensor logs and voice recordings.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:03
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Yeah but weirdly the tonal dissonance is mostly in how others react to her, she's been pretty steady on the "my life is a wreck/I'm giving it one last shot with my son/welp my life is still a wreck" path herself. I kind if like how Rios is treating her with compassion. Seems like he understands she is sick and treats her as such, which seems like a more 24th century attitude toward addiction.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:07
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I kind if like how Rios is treating her with compassion. Seems like he understands she is sick and treats her as such, which seems like a more 24th century attitude toward addiction. Yeah that's what I meant about Rios feeling like more of an actual character in the last episode.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:07
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Picard knew Raffi when she was a plucky Starfleet officer. Rios knew her for the aftermath. TBH I think Picard is being a little blind to how far-gone she really is; I wonder if the intention is that he expected her to light up with joy at the prospect of Doing Good again and doesn't realize the "I'm still planning on drinking myself to death" line wasn't just part of the performance. But again, we've been shown a few times already that he's imperfect and I wonder if they'll address this particular issue before the season is out. Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Feb 28, 2020 |
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Feb 28, 2020 17:09
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FlamingLiberal posted:I cringe every time she shows up on screen Something just struck me about how odd her whole character is. She's a former Starfleet officer living on a utopian earth with presumably universal healthcare. Everyone drinks synthahol* and seems to have no issue dealing with addiction (in the federation) anymore. There's presumably much better mental health resources 400 years in the future, and medical science has otherwise advanced to the point where broken bones can be instantly healed by waving a magic wand around for a few seconds. There are emergency psychiatric holograms in the same show. The basis for her character in the show seems to be at odds with the world she inhabits. With all of the amazing advances that have taken place over 400 years, she's still stuck as a 21st century-style addict. I'm imagining it in the same vein as an officer in Starfleet who is just randomly racist, like Lieutenant Commander Pisker, who is introduced to the audience by saying "hey it's great to be here, boy I sure hate black people, yeah I'm really racist and can't stand them. Anyway, can't wait to get to my post on this starship and meet the chief engineer", but this character trait existing in the same world where racism is repeatedly shown to be a thing of the past and this contradiction never being explored or elaborated on. * A few people try to find the real stuff for special occasions, but it always seemed like synthahol was the normal drink now, and alcohol is just seen as a historical oddity
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Feb 28, 2020 17:11
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Picard knew Raffi when she was a plucky Starfleet officer. Rios knew her for the aftermath. So you'd think seeing her in such a state would be even more upsetting to Picard. I can buy someone who's only ever known her like that being desensitised, so it's weird that Picard's the one being "hahah, that's our Raffi."
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Feb 28, 2020 17:13
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piratepilates posted:Something just struck me about how odd her whole character is. She's a former Starfleet officer living on a utopian earth with presumably universal healthcare. Everyone drinks synthahol* and seems to have no issue dealing with addiction (in the federation) anymore. There's presumably much better mental health resources 400 years in the future, and medical science has otherwise advanced to the point where broken bones can be instantly healed by waving a magic wand around for a few seconds. There are emergency psychiatric holograms in the same show. It's almost like she purposely cut herself off from society at large after losing her job and security clearance. Yes, she has all the resources needed to get help. No, she doesn't want any.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:15
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Lizard Combatant posted:So you'd think seeing her in such a state would be even more upsetting to Picard. I can buy someone who's only ever known her like that being desensitised, so it's weird that Picard's the one being "hahah, that's our Raffi." I think the overarching theme so far is that he's letting himself be blinded to certain realities in his quest to redeem himself. We saw it with Seven, we saw it with Raffi multiple times, and with his decision to just waltz into Starfleet and ask for a ship.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:15
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piratepilates posted:Something just struck me about how odd her whole character is. She's a former Starfleet officer living on a utopian earth with presumably universal healthcare. Everyone drinks synthahol* and seems to have no issue dealing with addiction (in the federation) anymore. There's presumably much better mental health resources 400 years in the future, and medical science has otherwise advanced to the point where broken bones can be instantly healed by waving a magic wand around for a few seconds. There are emergency psychiatric holograms in the same show. The thing is with addiction, you actually have to want the help before you get it. She doesn't seem to want to get treated yet. Who knows, maybe if she really did want to sober up, all it would take is a hypospray and some counseling.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:17
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Turns out she's actually been drinking synthehol the whole time e: actually I wouldn't be shocked if that turned out to be the case and Picard gets confronted with a "well why the hell do you THINK she's intentionally keeping herself fall-down drunk"
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Feb 28, 2020 17:19
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zoux posted:Picard gets a little Ahabby around Borgs  Dietrich posted:Practically these scenes are meant to show the character researching the problem, to demonstrate both that the information is not widely known, some effort is required to get it; and that the character is intelligent and knows what they're doing. In TNG's days, creating a custom interactable interface would have been a big budget item, so they went with scripted interactions where they try query a, get a large number of results, slightly modify to query b to get fewer results, and then finally settle on query c, and get like 1 or 2 results. I don't mind them moving to a more physical representation of that sequence now that it's not as huge of a budget to do so, as it's more interesting to watch than a character talking vaguely into space. Yeah thanks for typing that up, that makes sense.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:23
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Drink-Mix Man posted:The thing is with addiction, you actually have to want the help before you get it. She doesn't seem to want to get treated yet. Who knows, maybe if she really did want to sober up, all it would take is a hypospray and some counseling. That's what's so odd about it, in the premise of the world of star trek she is playacting as an addict. Her life is a holodeck scenario of a 21st century person in need who is let down by the system. She can take that free Hypospray and be done with it, but instead she is choosing to be selfish and self-destruct. It's not that she can't get better or doesn't know how -- she doesn't want to, even when detrimental to the lives of those around her.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:29
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Would you force/trick someone into taking the anti-depression hypospray if they didn't want it, or even actively refused it? Some people definitely choose to wallow rather than seek help and I don't see why that would be different in The Future
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Feb 28, 2020 17:36
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piratepilates posted:That's what's so odd about it, in the premise of the world of star trek she is playacting as an addict. Her life is a holodeck scenario of a 21st century person in need who is let down by the system. She can take that free Hypospray and be done with it, but instead she is choosing to be selfish and self-destruct. It's not that she can't get better or doesn't know how -- she doesn't want to, even when detrimental to the lives of those around her. Like she’s not addicted to weed, it’s snakeweed. I would be more onboard if the writing was up to the task, but it clearly isn’t for the character. Which is odd to me because it feels like they have kept Picard consistent with his previous appearances pretty well.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:42
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Last time this came up some folks were either of the mind that "she specifically doesn't want help and on Earth she's free to do so if she chooses" or that "it adds to a general trend of using unimaginatively present day coding to sketch characters that could otherwise be done in ways less incongruous with the setting". As you can probably guess, I fell on the latter side but I do get the former's justifications. It's just... was it the best way to tell this story? Picard doesn't even seem surprised when they first reunite. Having a former friend now being a trailer living, meth head and pulling a gun on him would probably be a bit of a shock unless you're approaching the show with a 21st century mindset where that's almost cliche imagery for someone who's dropped out of society. Same with her talk about heirloom furniture (in a setting in which there's zero difference between his chair and a replicated copy) echoing contemporary resentment about class. Or Martian dock workers getting poo poo food and being casually racist about a synth as a stand in for immigrant labour. Of course there's virtually nothing you can't justify in-universe, and as you say she's play acting because she's self destructive. But eventually I think you start to erode the point of difference between our world and the established setting of the show. It's not that she's self destructive, I get that, it's the shortcuts taken to convey it. To me, world building needs a bit more imagination.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:43
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I'm sure you know this, but addiction isn't related to physical circumstances. In today's society, rich, successful people become addicts, and theres no reason to assume that's not true in the future either.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:44
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I think the overarching theme so far is that he's letting himself be blinded to certain realities in his quest to redeem himself. We saw it with Seven, we saw it with Raffi multiple times, and with his decision to just waltz into Starfleet and ask for a ship. The Bloop posted:Some people definitely choose to wallow rather than seek help and I don't see why that would be different in The Future
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Feb 28, 2020 17:45
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The Bloop posted:Would you force/trick someone into taking the anti-depression hypospray if they didn't want it, or even actively refused it? Because Gene Roddenberry had some dumb (but noble) ideas and in early TNG Wesley made a much maligned statement asking "why would anyone do drugs?!?!?!?" (Especially funny because of how much of a cokehead Roddenberry historically was) I think you can write it off in some sense in that drugs were there in the Federation but on official starships they were forbidden.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:49
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