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TheKingslayer posted:Lemme tell you the tale of a man that came down from the beanstalk named Stefan Struve. Dirty Bob Schrijber telling a 6'4" 13-year old Struve "let's teach you grappling" was such a terrible thing.
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Feb 28, 2020 05:51
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Idahoant posted:Yeah, I feel like he breaks the weight classes with his size. A fight against a 225 lb fighter is like man vs giant. Deontay is at least close but basically I think most people that tall and athletic will be scouted for basketball these days. If you took some of these nba power forward prospects and taught them to box maybe one of them could take him... Honestly hard to see him lose to anyone who fought before around 1990, and even Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield were too small to handle him. Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, Vitali Klitschko - guys like that could have potentially beaten him, but before those guys - superheavyweights themselves - it's very hard for me to see previous generations of heavyweights winning. Even Muhammad Ali was "only" 6'3 215 pounds in his prime. That's Steve Cunningham basically. Obviously Ali was a much better boxer, but it's hard to see Ali having that much more luck against someone who's 6'9 270 and can move and box so well. He would go 12, but could he land enough punches to win? Doubtful. Larry Holmes is in the same boat. Even prime George Foreman was only 6'3 220, though Foreman had Wilderesque power and could have KOed Fury if he was sloppy or out of shape. But before the 1990s, guys were just too small across the board, and once you get earlier than the 1970s, guys were comparative midgets. Joe Louis was 6'1 205. Jack Dempsey was 6'1 190. Rocky Marciano was 5'10 185. Today's cruiserweights are bigger than that. Fury's such an enigma though that it also wouldn't surprise me to see him have an off night and get starched by B level guys like Shannon Briggs, Oliver McCall, Andrew Golota, Ray Mercer, Tony Tucker, Corrie Sanders, etc.
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Feb 28, 2020 07:04
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Why are heavyweight boxer such giants now compared to even twenty-five years ago?
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Feb 28, 2020 07:18
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punk rebel ecks posted:Why are heavyweight boxer such giants now compared to even twenty-five years ago? If there was such a thing as two boxers of exactly equal skill, the larger one would always beat the smaller one, so being bigger is an innate advantage. Also, it’s easier to teach a huge guy to be a good boxer than to teach a small guy to be bigger. Probably people like spectacle too, so a chungus like Valuev gets a lot of viewers even though he couldn’t really fight.
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Feb 28, 2020 08:39
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Torquemada posted:If there was such a thing as two boxers of exactly equal skill, the larger one would always beat the smaller one, so being bigger is an innate advantage. Also, it’s easier to teach a huge guy to be a good boxer than to teach a small guy to be bigger. Probably people like spectacle too, so a chungus like Valuev gets a lot of viewers even though he couldn’t really fight. That's only true up to a certain point. Diminishing returns is a very real thing and overcoming that is part of what makes Fury impressive. I think the evolution of sports medicine and modern training methods partly explains why a man his size can now dominate his division, but if you were to transport a young Fury back in time to the 40s-70s, I think he'd struggle. Fury is undoubtedly very good, yet despite being undersized, I could see an elite bob and weaver like a prime Tyson or Frazier beat him, if (and that's a big if) they could handle the clinch.
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Feb 28, 2020 09:10
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Wilder has knocked out plenty of bigger guys before, they were just fat lumps of poo poo who stood right in front of him.
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Feb 28, 2020 13:58
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Freudian slippers posted:I could see an elite bob and weaver like a prime Tyson or Frazier beat him, if (and that's a big if) they could handle the clinch. I agree and think the size differential would lead to refs breaking it up earlier and more often.
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Feb 28, 2020 14:43
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Speaking of Mike Tyson, just how good was he in boxing relative to other greats? Pop culture seems to rank him just behind Ali.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:12
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punk rebel ecks posted:Speaking of Mike Tyson, just how good was he in boxing relative to other greats? Pop culture seems to rank him just behind Ali. he looked like the greatest boxer of all time and no-one could last a round with him and then he went to jail so who knows
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Feb 28, 2020 17:33
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punk rebel ecks posted:Speaking of Mike Tyson, just how good was he in boxing relative to other greats? Pop culture seems to rank him just behind Ali. He had some great attributes (speed, power) and some bad attributes (height). Within that combination, he achieved an amazingly effective style is his prime. That style would not be able to answer every great HW out there, but it ate up all the lackluster ones of his generation. Speed goes first, and when Mike's speed went, he was toast. This is what I'd expect him to try against Fury:   Just get insanely low and force Fury to punch straight down and miss or get warned for hitting the back of the head.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:43
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kimbo305 posted:Speed goes first, and when Mike's speed went, he was toast. I assume this is why Mike had to bow out of boxing in his mid-thirties, yet George Foreman was champ in his mid-forties.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:48
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anyone who doesnt think late 80s tyson was the greatest of all time needs to give their head a wobble. its a legit surprise he didnt kill anyone in the ring
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Feb 28, 2020 17:51
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I can’t think of a more aggressive fighter. He also had a lot of gifts: compact and hardy, low centre of gravity, quick hands, great head movement and picked his shots really well.
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Feb 28, 2020 17:57
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I also find it odd that there was controversy for when Douglas beat him. People don't seem to know that a ten count isn't a count to ten seconds.
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Feb 28, 2020 18:02
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https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Fu1vkAjdS/?utm_source=ig_embed
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Feb 28, 2020 18:03
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Word on the street is Fury may have used loaded gloves? Just heard about this from a guy at work.
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Feb 28, 2020 18:20
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The Ninth Layer posted:Word on the street is Fury may have used loaded gloves? Just heard about this from a guy at work. at this rate Wilder is going to outdo Cain Velasquez for most pathetic/hilarious excuses following a loss
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Feb 28, 2020 18:43
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punk rebel ecks posted:I also find it odd that there was controversy for when Douglas beat him. People don't seem to know that a ten count isn't a count to ten seconds. At the elite level of the sport, being able to administer consistent timings for counts would be more fair, which is why there's a popular expectation that counts are exact. It wouldn't be hard to give references a stopwatch gadget that starts counting when they see a fighter hit the floor, but there would still be plenty of controversy over when they fire off the first count.
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Feb 28, 2020 19:47
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The Ninth Layer posted:Word on the street is Fury may have used loaded gloves? Just heard about this from a guy at work. Yeah... loaded with cash!!
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Feb 28, 2020 21:17
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If Mikey loses to Jesse Vargas tomorrow hopefully he doesn't blame the loss on a 15 lb cowboy hat or something as ridiculous
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Feb 29, 2020 01:48
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The SituAsian posted:If Mikey loses to Jesse Vargas tomorrow hopefully he doesn't blame the loss on a 15 lb cowboy hat or something as ridiculous that would be sick
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Feb 29, 2020 04:10
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Freudian slippers posted:That's only true up to a certain point. Diminishing returns is a very real thing and overcoming that is part of what makes Fury impressive. I think the evolution of sports medicine and modern training methods partly explains why a man his size can now dominate his division, but if you were to transport a young Fury back in time to the 40s-70s, I think he'd struggle. Fury is undoubtedly very good, yet despite being undersized, I could see an elite bob and weaver like a prime Tyson or Frazier beat him, if (and that's a big if) they could handle the clinch. kimbo305 posted:He had some great attributes (speed, power) and some bad attributes (height). In my personal opinion, I'd say a key point about Tyson is that one of his great strengths was his defense. Sure, he hit like a truck with both hands, but on top of that was the defense that D'Amato drilled into him every day for years, and that Rooney continued drilling him on. His opponents knew not only that they could be knocked out with either hand, but that they had little chance of landing anything solid on his head. Those videos linked above illustrate this beautifully, especially the bottom one against Reggie Gross. However, once Tyson and Rooney parted ways (after the Spinks fight), Tyson's head movement became less and less apparent, as he slowly morphed into a fighter who lumbered straight in looking for killing shots. This was most evident after prison, but if you watch his first pre-prison fight after Rooney's departure from the corner (Frank Bruno), you will see him take a lot more shots that he had previously in his career. Now, as it turned out, Tyson had a great chin, but still, he was getting hit a lot more. I do think if you take the Tyson from 6/27/1988 (arguably the most ferocious he ever looked) and put him in the ring against anyone, he would be a problem for his opponent. However, there was a sort of template emerging, used against him by fighters who were taller, with longer reach. Prior to the Spinks fight, which I think of as his peak, Tyson had fought 6'4" James Bonecrusher Smith, 6'5" Tony Tucker, and 6'5" Mitch Green, all of whom had reaches of 80" and longer (Tyson's reach was about 72" if I remember correctly) All three of these fights went the distance, although the Green fight wasn't close--Green was running and clinching the whole way. But the other two (and Green to a much lesser extent) were using the template of keeping Tyson at bay with the jab, and when he did manage to work inside, as he had to against taller/longer-armed opponents, to not only clinch but to lean down on him constantly, trying to wear him out. Post-prison, you can really see this against Lennox and Holyfield. I could see Fury doing the same to prime Tyson. As always, the danger factor is the dynamite Tyson had in both hands, so if he did manage to get inside unimpeded one or two punches could dramatically change the whole fight, if not end it. But Fury looks to me to be a good enough boxer that I think Tyson would have trouble getting inside, where he needs to be, without being clinched.
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Feb 29, 2020 05:00
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It's crazy that in the span of a year and a half of starting boxing, Deontay Wilder got on the US Olympic Boxing Team and performed better than anyone else: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2dKtzwqbzM&t=610s
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Feb 29, 2020 08:27
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Wilder is what you'd find in the dictionary under no technique, but incredible power and fight IQ.
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Feb 29, 2020 09:48
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He should jab with the jabber: https://twitter.com/LennoxLewis/status/1232141253141127168?s=20
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Feb 29, 2020 10:07
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punk rebel ecks posted:Speaking of Mike Tyson, just how good was he in boxing relative to other greats? Pop culture seems to rank him just behind Ali. Tyson was very, very good, but he was also champ at a time where the talent pool really started to dwindle. A big fish in a small pond. Styles makes fights and I think both Foreman and Liston would have chewed him up. P4P best ever can of course be debated forever, but in my opinion, it'd come down to Floyd jr or Robinson. I don't mean to rag on Tyson because he was loving awesome, but he didn't fight that much elite competition. E: I don't think it's up for debate that Ali fought a much higher tier of competition.
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Feb 29, 2020 10:48
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Tyson ducked Lennox forever too.
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Feb 29, 2020 10:53
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The "long count" was some bullshit excuse Don King cooked up to deflect from the embarrassing loss, exactly like Wilder and his team are doing now
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Feb 29, 2020 14:53
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This DAZN card has been out of this world with amazing fights. Eddie Hearn sure is putting on some shows in 2020.
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Mar 1, 2020 04:18
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War Chocolate Tito! Just beat the hell out of and knocked out unbeaten Kal Yafai
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Mar 1, 2020 04:48
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Chocolatito looked great. So happy he did well. Loved his mouthpiece, FSLN!!! Edit: What a year to be a boxing fan.
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Mar 1, 2020 04:55
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https://twitter.com/DAZN_USA/status/1233963178863874050
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Mar 1, 2020 04:58
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My brother told me that Deontay Wilder comes off a bit like a bully. Where does he get this from? I've seen a few interviews of him and he seems like a reasonable dude.
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Mar 1, 2020 05:02
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Mikey can't compete at welterweight. He's getting shut out on my card through 4.
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Mar 1, 2020 05:39
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Well okay looks like I spoke too soon.
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Mar 1, 2020 05:43
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I mean you're right in that he's physically always going to be outmatched but his timing is so good that he can mitigate that against all but the elite at the class
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Mar 1, 2020 05:52
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Vargas has some of the gnarliest bacne
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Mar 1, 2020 06:04
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Glad Vargas got to stick it out after seeing those jelly legs. Mikey and Choco are faves of mine. Feels great seeing them both come back and win big tonight.
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Mar 1, 2020 06:14
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It would be a financial boon for DAZN and the parties involved if they could do the Pacquiao fight but failing that I would like to see him against the winner of Prograis/Hooker
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Mar 1, 2020 06:25
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Man what a great night of fights. The Harris undercard fight was great.
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Mar 1, 2020 07:11
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