CanPol 2020 - Programmable Hydraulic Guillotines

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol 2020 - Programmable Hydraulic Guillotines

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Utgardaloki posted:

I don't genuinely think Jagmeet is playing 4D chess or anything, but honestly I'd probably say the same thing in this situation.

It puts pressure on all of the other enemies of the protest to not advocate for reactionary solutions, frames his most obvious enemies in a similar and unpopular light and doesn't really leave any room to fire back without revealing yourself to be an Albertan.

It's true in as much as the CEOs do want a peaceful solution, they want the Wet'suwet'en to gently caress off, peacefully, so they can have their pipeline.

Either these are part of a new era of Nation to Nation negotiations, or they're not, but so long as we're rolling in with the RCMP, they're not.

infernal machines fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Feb 29, 2020

# ? Feb 29, 2020 04:38

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# ? Jun 13, 2024 03:08

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

Yeah everything had been "we can only hold so much dialogue before we ignore it and proceed"

Someone upthread posted the pipeline maps that go around Wet'suwet'en territory but we're supposed to accept " :qq:

too expensive" as a valid response

Living CPC ghoul Rachel Curran was arguing on TV today that you can't change the route of the pipeline because that means you'd have to consult more FN bands and haven't we consulted with them enough.

less than three fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Feb 29, 2020

# ? Feb 29, 2020 04:43

supersnowman: Oct 3, 2012

Furnaceface posted:

Holy poo poo boomers are broken. We had at least a dozen seniors call in today to order 3-12 months of their prescriptions because CORONAVIRUS IS GOING TO CAUSE ALL OUR DRUGS TO VANISH Im assuming because FOX News said something about it and they cant separate America from Canada.

I feel compelled to tell all of you to avoid becoming pharmacists if you value your faith in humanity or soul.

I'm so happy I only do IT work for a pharmacy chain because I know it will be a shitshow in the stores soon with those messages of stocking up on meds in advance.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 05:34

TrueChaos: Nov 14, 2006

less than three posted:

Someone upthread posted the pipeline maps that go around Wet'suwet'en territory but we're supposed to accept " too expensive" as a valid response

From what I remember (I looked into it ages ago) alternate routes around the Wet'suwet'en territory were significantly riskier environmentally, which is a valid reason not to go along those alternate routes. Much like the Wet'suwet'en saying no is a completely valid reason it shouldn't go through their territory.

Down with pipelines

# ? Feb 29, 2020 05:38

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

TrueChaos posted:

From what I remember (I looked into it ages ago) alternate routes around the Wet'suwet'en territory were significantly riskier environmentally, which is a valid reason not to go along those alternate routes. Much like the Wet'suwet'en saying no is a completely valid reason it shouldn't go through their territory.

Down with pipelines

Well realistically if they were forced to take that route it would just de facto kill the project, because they wouldn't want to pay the extra cost. They know this perfectly well which is why they are insisting that the government use the RCMP to just force the Wet'suwet'en off their own land.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 05:40

Jehde: Apr 21, 2010

TrueChaos posted:

From what I remember (I looked into it ages ago) alternate routes around the Wet'suwet'en territory were significantly riskier environmentally, which is a valid reason not to go along those alternate routes. Much like the Wet'suwet'en saying no is a completely valid reason it shouldn't go through their territory.

Down with pipelines

The main reason CGL claimed it was more environmentally damaging is because it goes closer to towns like Smithers, Houston, and Terrace, rather than over lands used by indigenous people.

It's all about being on time, on budget, on scope. An extra year is too late to sell LNG to China, 89 extra kilometres of pipeline is too much cost, 4 more first nations consultations is too many to bother with.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 05:49

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

vyelkin posted:

One thing I enjoy about being an academic: no one cares what hours I work ... it's virtually impossible to keep 40-hour workweeks and still get everything done so I keep having a job.

Who doesn't love the flexibility of working 60 hours whenever you want to avoid risking losing your job!

# ? Feb 29, 2020 06:32

Alexithymia: Dec 7, 2019

Because the Greta Thunberg Rape in Effigy Decal wasn't classy enough...

https://twitter.com/gnelsonII/status/1233238552625831937

Was Alberta always this much of a cesspool?

# ? Feb 29, 2020 06:44

Hexigrammus: May 22, 2006; Cheech Wizard stories are clean, wholesome, reflective truths that go great with the marijuana munchies and a blow job.

Alexithymia posted:

Was Alberta always this much of a cesspool?

Judging by my family history research, yes.

Mental illness doesn't run in that branch of the family, it stampedes.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 06:54

Professorjuggalo: Oct 22, 2019; by Cyrano4747

Currently on a Calgary train, it�s way worse than words can describe and there�s actual neo nazis everywhere now

# ? Feb 29, 2020 08:54

James Baud: May 24, 2015; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Furnaceface posted:

Actually Im at Pharmacy Y. Jokes on you.

Called in for a snow day for the first time in my life today. Drove in yesterday in treacherous weather for a 10 hour shift and its even worse weather today. On the way home last night, as I was dodging pickup trucks sliding sideways through 4-way stops, it really hit home that this poo poo aint worth my life. I know I probably cant really afford the lost shift but this aint the USA and I still have a tiny bit of dignity left dammit.

e: Snow plow is stuck in front of my house. I think I made the right call.

Awesome re: plow.

Re: Coronavirus panic, though, lol @ these international stories from Feb 29th that might make it to local news by Mon/Tue.

Two cases of patients who had already been infected and supposedly fully recovered apparently getting re-infected:
https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Third-person-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-in-Israel-619215
https://m-en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20200228009700320

Note that Korea went from ~30 to 3000 confirmed cases in a week thanks to their recent policy of testing everybody who reports flu symptoms (10k+ per day), not like good 'ol North America where the CDC had tested like 500 people nation-wide and Canada's at maybe a couple thousand total.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 12:46

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Alexithymia posted:

Was Alberta always this much of a cesspool?

I read once but can't find it now that Social Credit, which was originally a pretty radical anti-capitalist but also anti-Marxist theory of economics, turned conservative in Canada not because the ideology itself was conservative, but because the place it found a foothold was Alberta, and the preexisting social conservatism of Albertans made the party turn into basically a right-wing populist party in like the 30s and 40s, even before they found significant oil there.

So basically, yes.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 13:21

Math You: Oct 27, 2010; So put your faith
in more than steel

People are really taking the push to buy seriously. Our GTA locations have like a 500% increase in sales on rice and pastas over last week. It would be higher if we weren't struggling to keep it in stock.

Definitely not a bare shelves scenario yet, but some fairly thin aisles. At least we are not Hawaii
https://youtu.be/vtcv24BacUA

# ? Feb 29, 2020 13:24

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

vyelkin posted:

I read once but can't find it now that Social Credit, which was originally a pretty radical anti-capitalist but also anti-Marxist theory of economics, turned conservative in Canada not because the ideology itself was conservative, but because the place it found a foothold was Alberta, and the preexisting social conservatism of Albertans made the party turn into basically a right-wing populist party in like the 30s and 40s, even before they found significant oil there.

So basically, yes.

The SoCreds stayed pretty far left in BC. WAC was nationalizing banks and railways in the fifties, not even the NDP would consider that today.

And then the party collapsed and took over the BC Liberals in the 90's lol.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 14:12

upgunned shitpost: Jan 21, 2015

you can track the moral and intellectual collapse of the bc socreds through the bennett bloodline. like the hapsbugs!

# ? Feb 29, 2020 14:36

apatheticman: May 13, 2003; Wedge Regret

https://twitter.com/doniveson/status/1233789538444533760?s=20

# ? Feb 29, 2020 19:07

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

If the food situation gets too dire, I've always figured I could just eat geese for awhile.

Hundreds of the plump fuckers, just sitting out there. Walk up, pop one with a 2x4, done.

Sure, other people will figure it out eventually as well, but I figure there's at least a good week of easy pickings there while people are still waiting in line/devouring eachother at Costco.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 19:40

MA-Horus: Dec 3, 2006; I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

The Butcher posted:

If the food situation gets too dire, I've always figured I could just eat geese for awhile.

Hundreds of the plump fuckers, just sitting out there. Walk up, pop one with a 2x4, done.

Sure, other people will figure it out eventually as well, but I figure there's at least a good week of easy pickings there while people are still waiting in line/devouring eachother at Costco.

How dare you

# ? Feb 29, 2020 20:02

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

vyelkin posted:

I read once but can't find it now that Social Credit, which was originally a pretty radical anti-capitalist but also anti-Marxist theory of economics, turned conservative in Canada not because the ideology itself was conservative, but because the place it found a foothold was Alberta, and the preexisting social conservatism of Albertans made the party turn into basically a right-wing populist party in like the 30s and 40s, even before they found significant oil there.

So basically, yes.

To reduce a whole bunch of history to a hot take, it's pretty much because of one charismatic preacher, Bible Bill. He had his own christian talk radio show that was wildly popular in alberta, and a lot of hare brained schemes about handing out cash to indivduals to stimulate the economy, and he hijacked the alberta social credit party to become this weird evangelical cult like party.

He started printing his own currency, and forced albertans to sign a pledge to his government to get it. He also made albertans apply to him for permission to travel out of the province. When he died he had his disciple ernest manning take over who was trained by bible bill's bible college. In conclusion, the poo poo about albert being founded by a unique culture of rugged individualists or some poo poo is bs, alberta politics is based around a history of charismatic evangelicalism.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 20:20

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

We've also got some lunatic mormons down in the south bit, and I think some literal klan rallies up near Rocky Mountain House or Caroline or some poo poo.

Rural Alberta is a horrific place. Calgary and Edmonton are okay on some level, but Red Deer and Medicine Hat and the like are just loving trash as well.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 20:39

Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

https://twitter.com/mbueckert/status/1233828479965286400

I'd managed to block the entire "Taliban Jack" thing out

# ? Feb 29, 2020 20:53

The Butcher: Apr 20, 2005; Well, at least we tried.; Nap Ghost

IMO we set a bad precedent with the prairies with the Dominion Lands Act.

It's been handouts all the way down.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 20:53

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

This passage kind of sums up a major hurdle for progressives in Canada:

quote:

When a settler reacts to be being called a settler by bunching up his or her guts and getting all worked up, he or she is betraying a guilt that proves just how useful the term is. Those with privilege don�t like to be called anything at all. They prefer to be neutral. They prefer to be the default. Calling someone a settler, however, has the effect of asking the person to recognize their power and position within a colonial state. The protestations raise the question, �Why do you assume the term is meant to be an insult?� It isn�t to me. It�s a way to describe what is happening between peoples. It�s meant to be a call to account. If being asked to accept your place within a system insults you, then it�s worth interrogating that feeling and trying to understand where it comes from and what it�s telling you.

This fetishization of making people uncomfortable, with the implicit assumption that people who are made to feel uncomfortable in this way will react by adopting more progressive attitudes, seems to have demonstrably failed as a strategy but it keeps getting trotted out by journalists and academics because frankly they do not have many other arrows in their quiver.

Progressives in Canada really seem to put too much stock in communication and education at the expense of organization and mobilization. The fact is that many, if not most, people who are confronted with their privilege will take steps to protect it. If you're an affluent member of the culture industry then you can make a career out of this kind of stuff but if your priority is actually winning political battles against high odds then this kind of priestly attitude, where inducing guilt seems to take precedence over any expectation of winning real material victories, is absolutely fatal. The people who espouse these attitudes are well intentioned but you don't seize political power by scolding the masses.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 21:11

Aces High: Mar 26, 2010; Nah! A little chocolate will do

the Don Iveson tweet sent me down a rabbit hole, but it was nice to at least see there being a few Albertans that are not consumed by oil and gas.

I'll take a little bit of good news considering what I have to hear every loving day, such as the RCMP not pursuing an investigation into the company with the rape decal because "well, the CEO said they didn't make it, so no harm, no foul here"

# ? Feb 29, 2020 21:19

Crow Buddy: Oct 30, 2019; Guillotines?!? We don't need no stinking guillotines!

Well that is where the KKK is, so they would rally there.

When I was a kid Edmonton was �fine� if you could chase the skinheads out of the bar.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 21:24

Classon Ave. Robot: Oct 7, 2019; by Athanatos

Helsing posted:

This passage kind of sums up a major hurdle for progressives in Canada:

This fetishization of making people uncomfortable, with the implicit assumption that people who are made to feel uncomfortable in this way will react by adopting more progressive attitudes, seems to have demonstrably failed as a strategy but it keeps getting trotted out by journalists and academics because frankly they do not have many other arrows in their quiver.

Progressives in Canada really seem to put too much stock in communication and education at the expense of organization and mobilization. The fact is that many, if not most, people who are confronted with their privilege will take steps to protect it. If you're an affluent member of the culture industry then you can make a career out of this kind of stuff but if your priority is actually winning political battles against high odds then this kind of priestly attitude, where inducing guilt seems to take precedence over any expectation of winning real material victories, is absolutely fatal. The people who espouse these attitudes are well intentioned but you don't seize political power by scolding the masses.

Um actually I think you'll find that Niki Ashton is the one who is going to mobilize the left and produce positive chance in this country for the first time in decades.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 21:28

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

Classon Ave. Robot posted:

Um actually I think you'll find that Niki Ashton is the one who is going to mobilize the left and produce positive chance in this country for the first time in decades.

I missed you too CI.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 21:33

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

Furnaceface posted:

I missed you too CI.

No that's Chairmaster.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 21:35

Hexigrammus: May 22, 2006; Cheech Wizard stories are clean, wholesome, reflective truths that go great with the marijuana munchies and a blow job.

RBC posted:

To reduce a whole bunch of history to a hot take, it's pretty much because of one charismatic preacher, Bible Bill. He had his own christian talk radio show that was wildly popular in alberta, and a lot of hare brained schemes about handing out cash to indivduals to stimulate the economy, and he hijacked the alberta social credit party to become this weird evangelical cult like party.

He started printing his own currency, and forced albertans to sign a pledge to his government to get it. He also made albertans apply to him for permission to travel out of the province. When he died he had his disciple ernest manning take over who was trained by bible bill's bible college. In conclusion, the poo poo about albert being founded by a unique culture of rugged individualists or some poo poo is bs, alberta politics is based around a history of charismatic evangelicalism.

Oh boy, more reading to add to the list! I knew Bible Bill was weird but not that weird.

Nice to have an overview of provincial politics to go along with the stories my elderly aunts tell of not getting caught alone in the barn with certain creepy old evangelical paedophile neighbours.

# ? Feb 29, 2020 22:35

MA-Horus: Dec 3, 2006; I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

BIBLE BILL ABERHART!

25 DOLLARS A MONTH FOR EVERY ALBERTAN!
also had more than a passing interest in Nazi Germany

(I played bible bill in a high school production of the aberhart summer and won a provincial award I am not proud of this fact)

# ? Feb 29, 2020 23:37

Furnaceface: Oct 21, 2004

Hexigrammus posted:

Oh boy, more reading to add to the list! I knew Bible Bill was weird but not that weird.

Nice to have an overview of provincial politics to go along with the stories my elderly aunts tell of not getting caught alone in the barn with certain creepy old evangelical paedophile neighbours.

IIRC there is a significant connection between Alberta's crazy Evangelical swing and the American deep south. A few years back (I think the year the NDP got elected there) vyelkin or Helsing recommended a book that went over that part of Alberta's history but now I cant find the link.

e: I think it was called God's Province?

e2: Yeah that might have been it. There was a second one that covered the more modern history of Alberta's religion merging with the oil industry and Stephen Harper's rise in that cult.

Furnaceface fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Mar 1, 2020

# ? Mar 1, 2020 00:29

folytopo: Nov 5, 2013

Helsing posted:

This passage kind of sums up a major hurdle for progressives in Canada:

This fetishization of making people uncomfortable, with the implicit assumption that people who are made to feel uncomfortable in this way will react by adopting more progressive attitudes, seems to have demonstrably failed as a strategy but it keeps getting trotted out by journalists and academics because frankly they do not have many other arrows in their quiver.

Progressives in Canada really seem to put too much stock in communication and education at the expense of organization and mobilization. The fact is that many, if not most, people who are confronted with their privilege will take steps to protect it. If you're an affluent member of the culture industry then you can make a career out of this kind of stuff but if your priority is actually winning political battles against high odds then this kind of priestly attitude, where inducing guilt seems to take precedence over any expectation of winning real material victories, is absolutely fatal. The people who espouse these attitudes are well intentioned but you don't seize political power by scolding the masses.

I think it is that communication and education are not necessarily opposed to organizing per se. But the problem is that they are not practiced in a way that is about organizing groups and getting them doing productive things. You need to train your members in tasks and ideas that are critical to the goal they are organizing for. For example, union members need to know what to do to prepare for a strike, and how to get your household ready for that. Or if you are communicating with random citizens, you should probably frame your message in a way that either persuades them as far as possible to your side or moves them to action. I actually think that the tasks of mobalization is done okay by at least some left groups. Some groups can get people out consistently and a lot of the woke language speaks to committed activist okay. It is just inefficient for people taking the first few steps away from Canadian orthodoxy.

# ? Mar 1, 2020 03:38

Rime: Nov 2, 2011; by Games Forum

Furnaceface posted:

IIRC there is a significant connection between Alberta's crazy Evangelical swing and the American deep south. A few years back (I think the year the NDP got elected there) vyelkin or Helsing recommended a book that went over that part of Alberta's history but now I cant find the link.

e: I think it was called God's Province?

e2: Yeah that might have been it. There was a second one that covered the more modern history of Alberta's religion merging with the oil industry and Stephen Harper's rise in that cult.

I just read a really great longform article in slate about this "Oil Bible" scam church down in Georgia, which touched on the biblical significance of "oil" as symbolism. It got me wondering what stage of contraction / economic irrelevance will cause the yellowvest types to merge with evangelicals and turn the O&G industry into an actual religious cult citing the Bible as a reason to keep drilling wells.

# ? Mar 1, 2020 05:39

littleorv: Jan 29, 2011

I like that Leah Gazan

# ? Mar 1, 2020 06:14

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

Furnaceface posted:

I missed you too CI.

Jenny Kwan Jenny Kwan Jenny Kwan Jenny Kwan Jenny Kwan Jenny Kwan JENNY KWAN JENNY KWAN JENNY KWAN JENNY KWAN JENNY KWAN JENNY KW

# ? Mar 1, 2020 06:24

Weird BIAS: Jul 5, 2007; so... guess that's it, huh? just... don't say i didn't warn you.

Since socred came up just gonna quote my post from the map thread.

Weird BIAS posted:

Don�t normally phone post images and sorry for the white section on the side but I�m enjoying Alberta and Quebec on this map.

# ? Mar 1, 2020 06:46

Horatius Bonar: Sep 8, 2011

Simple solution: propose a bike lane run the length of the pipeline. I think that would be a project that 100% of Canadians could unite against.

# ? Mar 1, 2020 14:28

Another Bill: Sep 27, 2018; I stumbled ass-backwards into a comfortable, easy life for reasons beyond my comprehension and now I think I'm better than you for it.

Horatius Bonar posted:

Simple solution: propose a bike lane run the length of the pipeline. I think that would be a project that 100% of Canadians could unite against.

lol Stealing this joke fyi

# ? Mar 1, 2020 17:32

Femtosecond: Aug 2, 2003

Man so, so many red flags here. Wet'suwet'en governance seems in a really bad state.

quote:

Open letter to Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs after Tsayu clan meeting

...

As the General Manager of Kyah Resources, I am for the project. I see that our house chiefs and our elected chiefs are divided, with some for, some against, and some recognizing the importance of the words that came from their house members and doing as instructed by their house.

I am Witsuwit�en, matrilineally descended from Na�Moks Lucy Holland in the Tsayu clan, with my father clan being Laksilyu. As a young teen I had the chance to sit at our kitchen table with my great-grandmother Lucy and my mother, listening as they discussed the business in our territory and what it could mean. At the time I didn�t recognize the importance of the discussions taking place. Not being brought up in Witset, I admit that I don�t speak the language or understand all the terms Lucy used as she bounced between speaking English and Witsuwit�en. What I do recall was that there was a court case, and it was necessary to gain access to our territory to provide for the people, and that�s why it was taking place. Being an entrepreneur, my mother understood the importance of Witsuwit�en having access to the general economy, and my mom supported her grandmother when she came to visit, or we visited her in Witset (formerly Moricetown).

I heard discussion of the laws from my great-grandmother, and while I�m not an expert, I did learn the basics. I am still learning from the chiefs I talk to, from my clan and my father clan. Unfortunately, I see our laws being changed or cast aside during this event in our territory, mostly to justify the actions of some of our house chiefs, who act to make the outside environmental activists that have come into our territory happy. It seems they have been manipulated to fight their fight.

We have seen three female chiefs being stripped of their name because they don�t agree with the �Hereditary Chiefs� within the society that is the Office of the Wet�suwet�en. This stripping was not done following our law. We have seen individuals be given Chief�s names that then flout our Law on many fronts. A newly named chief can�t speak for a year, yet these new chiefs have been vocal in the media. We have seen a chief break our Law by claiming a name from another house. We have seen a chief name be given to some whose parents sit together in the feast hall. We have seen adoptions across clans take place without merit or proper transfer.

Our Law states that guests have no say in �our business,� meaning the things that are taking place on our territories. This continues to be observed by many, but some guests, whether born in Wet�suwet�en territory or adopted into a house, forget that they are guests and can observe but not speak. Guests are permitted to live in the territory and take advantage of the resources provided by the territory, but they have no say on what happens within the territory. This has not been followed by some and they need to be reminded by our house chiefs that they have no say, public or private. If they want to have a say on territory, they should follow their matrilineal lines back home and conduct business at home.

Growing up, I don�t recall seeing my great-grandmother Lucy wear her regalia outside the Feast Hall. It was never seen in Fort Nelson or Vancouver at a protest. Regalia was certainly never given to a non-chief to parade down the street in protest. It was sacred, and was treated in a proper manner, not as a costume to make a dramatic impact. In the past, Dick Alec, a well-respected house chief, also did drumming and singing, while performing around the world. His proper regalia was never worn outside the feast hall, with another set of regalia designed for performing only.

The decisions seem to be taking place in Smithers at the Office of the Wet�suwet�en, a registered society created to negotiate treaty following the SCC victory. Our laws dictate that the feast hall is where decisions are made. This has not been followed, with the OW acting like a government, which they are not. Our chiefs are to meet with their house groups and do as the house group decides; they are not the decision makers. In the past the Tsayu clan representative has set up Tsayu clan meetings on a near monthly basis, and our chief has only ever showed up to the first meeting, never to meet with his clan again. How does he speak on behalf of a house group he doesn�t have time to meet with? Then the clan representative was changed, and the meetings became exclusive, with very limited notice to times and dates.

Last week, I see my house chief proclaiming in the media that an All Clans Meeting was called for the next day, and only certain people could speak. This is not our Law, our house chiefs are not our dictators. Each house chief is supposed to do what the house members agree upon and tell him through our matriarchs, elders, and wing chiefs, not tell us what we are going to do. Some chiefs have not been holding house meetings open to all, so the decision made in these meetings do not hold weight. Our chiefs don�t get to hand pick who they invite to house meeting. Each chief holds equal power in the hall, and this has been forgotten. Being the clan spokesperson doesn�t give more power over the other chiefs, and this has been forgotten.

...

The Office of the Wet�suwet�en was started with 19 seats, thirteen for our house chiefs and six for the elected chiefs. Delgamuukw-Gisday�wa was successful in court because all our chiefs sat at the table and agreed on the necessary actions. To ensure unity for looking after our people the house chiefs and elected agreed they must act in unison to provide for the people. This has been forgotten with some house chiefs trying to extinguish the relationship with the elected chiefs.

In Delgamuukw versus British Columbia, the Supreme Court ruled the territory was unceded, governance was never established, and that the land was held for the Witsuwit�en people for when governance was established, and title and rights could be negotiated. The people are the owners, not the chiefs, whether house chiefs or elected council chiefs. Our ancestors, elders, and matriarchs fought the case to gain access to the resources so that our people could make a living of the resources from their territory.

It seems strange that the house chiefs that did most of the logging off this ruling, and are now retired from the industry, are now against a new industry helping the next generation. It is noticeable that these same house chiefs have the most educated and successful children. It proves that having good employment provides a multi-generational benefit. The elected chiefs recognize this and are pushing for employment knowing that the biggest benefit will be for the children of those working on the pipeline.

One chief complaint of some house chiefs has been that industry and government won�t talk to the OW. Now that they have been offered the opportunity, they have not taken advantage of the offer. The elected councils of Witset, Nee Tahi Buhn, Wet�suwet�en First Nation (Broman Lake), Skin Tyee, and Ts�il Kaz Koh (Burns Lake Band) all signed agreements with industry and government to provide a step to further discussions with government. The Office of the Wet�suwet�en also entered negotiation with industry and government over pipelines, but were removed by Witset because of internal disagreements over how the negotiations took place, and who was to benefit from any agreement reached. Even when Witset took over negotiations, Witset council invited the house chiefs to attend all negotiations to provide advice and counsel. The OW has prevented the chiefs from attending the negotiations under threat of removal from their paid positions.

I speak outside the Feast Hall now because some of our house chiefs have decided that only their voice matters and they are expressing it in the public. I call on all Witsuwit�en to talk to their elders, matriarchs, wing chiefs, and house chiefs to remind our house chiefs of their duties to uphold our Law, and for our house chiefs to listen. They must understand that they are chiefs so that they can carry our voice and do our bidding, they are not our dictators. They need to be reminded that they carry the name of someone who was remembered, and if they tarnish this memory, it will not be forgotten.

All Wet�suwet�en communities fought the Northern Gateway project, which was a bitumen line, and we were successful. We have been successful in Delgamuukw as well, but both of our successes come when the house chiefs and elected chiefs work together for a common goal.

United, we have an opportunity to negotiate for what we want:

� Land, title, rights, responsibilities;

� Reserve lands restored in Houston, Telkwa and Smithers;

� PNG natural gas line settlement;

� Rail line settlement;

� Alcan / Rio Tinto Kemano Reservoir settlement;

� Mine sites cleaned up throughout the territory;

� and other outstanding issues.

Witsuwit�en have wanted to get government talking, and now that the opportunity is here, some would sooner go to court. This makes no sense when we have the ability control how we negotiate; be we lose control if we let a court decide.

We have all talked about self-reliance and the need to control our future. Industry is paying our communities for access to the territory, with no control over how the money gets spent. Our leaders get to control the funds coming in to spend as their members wish, not at the behest of INAC agents. This is an important step, not having an overseer is admirable.

To be successful, we need our house chiefs and our elected chiefs to work for the betterment of all Witsuwit�en � our children, our elders, our chiefs, our matriarchs.

Mussi,

Troy Young

Tsayu Clan

# ? Mar 1, 2020 18:43

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# ? Jun 13, 2024 03:08

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

Good news everyone.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wetsuweten-agreement-reached-1.5481681

quote:

Wet'suwet'en chiefs, ministers reach proposed agreement in pipeline dispute

Wet'suwet'en hereditary leader says proposal represents an important milestone

A Wet'suwet'en hereditary chief and senior government ministers say they have reached a proposed arrangement in discussing a pipeline dispute that has prompted solidarity protests across Canada in recent weeks.

Federal Crown-Indigenous Relations Minister Carolyn Bennett and British Columbia Indigenous Relations Minister Scott Fraser would not give details on the proposed agreement, saying it first has to be reviewed by the Wet'suwet'en people.

Chief Woos, one of the Wet'suwet'en hereditary leaders, says the proposal represents an important milestone.

The announcement comes as talks between the hereditary chiefs and the ministers entered a fourth day.

# ? Mar 1, 2020 19:31

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