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Wolfsbane posted:It feels like simultaneous turns in magic would work pretty straightforwardly. The only difference between platers' turns would be who gets priority first in each phase. Trying to do simultaneous combat would be a bit tricky, but alternating attack/defence would double the number of card draws per attack step. This is what DBZ/GT and the original VS System did.
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Mar 1, 2020 16:03
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Has anyone made a simultaneous-turns Magic variant Magic already has simultaneous turns, that's one of its fundamental tenets. You're the one who gets to decide how much of a turn you get on defense with how many instants you have in your deck
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Mar 1, 2020 16:15
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So I made Golgari Soulflayer, played it a couple times at FNM, and then I was looking on mtggoldfish to see if the deck had evolved any, and it basically fell off the meta list and nobody's playing it anymore. I guess I'll make another deck, I do really like combos. Anyone have any experience playing Lotus Breach? I was a little worried about it getting banned, but they said they don't have any plans to ban anything currently. How does the deck work, what kind of hate do people bring in against it, how do you play against hate etc.
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Mar 1, 2020 16:46
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The Clowner posted:Magic already has simultaneous turns, that's one of its fundamental tenets. You're the one who gets to decide how much of a turn you get on defense with how many instants you have in your deck well it was a fundamental tenet until war of the spark
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Mar 1, 2020 16:49
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Yawgmoth posted:correcting someone's word usage: the biggest evil in the world as long as its understandable, word choice doesnt matter, so yes, yes it is evil
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Mar 1, 2020 17:12
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So what's the word on Pioneer? Is it a fun / diverse format? I've got the itch to play paper Magic again after a long hiatus and I'm trying to decide between dipping a toe back in Standard or trying out Pioneer, since there seems to be support for both locally. I'd be playing on a budget but a few of the decks like Mono-R and Auras look pretty fun and cheap.
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Mar 1, 2020 17:13
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:So what's the word on Pioneer? Is it a fun / diverse format? I've got the itch to play paper Magic again after a long hiatus and I'm trying to decide between dipping a toe back in Standard or trying out Pioneer, since there seems to be support for both locally. I'd be playing on a budget but a few of the decks like Mono-R and Auras look pretty fun and cheap. It’s kind of combo hell right now.
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Mar 1, 2020 17:14
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Sickening posted:It’s kind of combo hell right now. Except not actually.
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Mar 1, 2020 17:25
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Sickening posted:It’s kind of combo hell right now. At the very highest levels of tournament play. At the LGS or even on MTGO it's by far the best format.
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Mar 1, 2020 17:39
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ShaneB posted:At the very highest levels of tournament play. At the LGS or even on MTGO it's by far the best format. Not even at the highest levels. Bant Spirits, Mono-Black Aggro and Sultai Delirium are all able to meaningfully interact with Inverter, and the Lotus Breach deck isn't actually good.
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Mar 1, 2020 17:56
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Brownhat posted:Not even at the highest levels. Bant Spirits, Mono-Black Aggro and Sultai Delirium are all able to meaningfully interact with Inverter, and the Lotus Breach deck isn't actually good. Breach is already dead until people stop packing 2-3 spheres. As is mono black IMO, people just keep playing a deck with like a 48% WR because it has thoughtseize and a history.
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Mar 1, 2020 18:11
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ShaneB posted:At the very highest levels of tournament play. At the LGS or even on MTGO it's by far the best format. The format is some really easy bans away from being pretty special.
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Mar 1, 2020 18:19
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ShaneB posted:Breach is already dead until people stop packing 2-3 spheres. As is mono black IMO, people just keep playing a deck with like a 48% WR because it has thoughtseize and a history. Mono-Black just put two people in the top 8 of the Pioneer Classic last weekend?
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Mar 1, 2020 18:46
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ShaneB posted:At the very highest levels of tournament play. At the LGS or even on MTGO it's by far the best format.
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Mar 1, 2020 18:51
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Brownhat posted:Mono-Black just put two people in the top 8 of the Pioneer Classic last weekend? Stopped clock, etc. It's not a great deck, statistically. Don't cherry pick results. It's 47.4% over 700+ tournament matches on mtgmeta.io
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Mar 1, 2020 18:54
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Yeah Inverter is a really powerful control deck with a combo lock finish, Breach is just a linear combo deck that folds immediately to interaction. I’m playing Sram Auras and doing very well in my local meta.
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Mar 1, 2020 19:31
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ShaneB posted:Stopped clock, etc. It's not a great deck, statistically. Don't cherry pick results. It's 47.4% over 700+ tournament matches on mtgmeta.io It's not cherry picked results. Mono-black keeps getting a slot or two into the top 8 at big shows, whether it's vampires or just raw aggro- it also had representation at the top 8 of both Brussels and Nagoya. Gary's kinda vanished as the decks have streamlined their plans, but black beatdown with Thoughtsieze and Push seems to be able to strap in some work. The deck's overall win rate isn't amazing but it keeps showing up at the top tables regardless of how the field overall does with it- usually the sign of a deck with a high skill requirement to pilot, which is usually not what I think of with decks running Bloodsoaked Champions or Knight of the Ebon Legion, but Thoughtsieze might just be the biggest knowledge test in the budding format.
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Mar 1, 2020 19:32
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Mr. Locke posted:It's not cherry picked results. Mono-black keeps getting a slot or two into the top 8 at big shows, whether it's vampires or just raw aggro- it also had representation at the top 8 of both Brussels and Nagoya. Gary's kinda vanished as the decks have streamlined their plans, but black beatdown with Thoughtsieze and Push seems to be able to strap in some work. The deck's overall win rate isn't amazing but it keeps showing up at the top tables regardless of how the field overall does with it- usually the sign of a deck with a high skill requirement to pilot, which is usually not what I think of with decks running Bloodsoaked Champions or Knight of the Ebon Legion, but Thoughtsieze might just be the biggest knowledge test in the budding format. I don't understand the defense of a deck that, statistically, is not tier 1 power level. This is my only contention. It's not absolute poo poo but it's not one of the best decks in the format by a decent margin. It also doesn't keep getting a slot into tier 1, it got into a classic where SCG grinders who didn't make day 2 can steamroll chumps like me. Drake Sasser and Daryl Ayers could make the top 8 of a classic with a pile of poo.
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Mar 1, 2020 19:47
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Pioneer has been fun for me but my LGS is cancelling its next Pioneer FNM to do a Mystery Booster draft so maybe no one else around here likes it?
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Mar 1, 2020 20:07
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A Moose posted:So I made Golgari Soulflayer, played it a couple times at FNM, and then I was looking on mtggoldfish to see if the deck had evolved any, and it basically fell off the meta list and nobody's playing it anymore. I guess I'll make another deck, I do really like combos. Anyone have any experience playing Lotus Breach? I was a little worried about it getting banned, but they said they don't have any plans to ban anything currently. How does the deck work, what kind of hate do people bring in against it, how do you play against hate etc. Don't build Breach. It got pushed out of the meta really fast.
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Mar 1, 2020 21:44
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LifeLynx posted:This thread's so sensitive to the high roll debate that I could spark a three page discussion by being excited I could finally pick up the RPS creatures. When do Ikoria spoilers start again? All I did was mention I've really liked the art of Magic since I was a kid and it prompted a multi-page argument on art direction with a suspension and mod reply  Thanks whoever replied earlier I forgot I posted here.
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Mar 1, 2020 23:32
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Let's post playing tips! When should I do instant speed actions? Instant speed actions are anything that happens at instant speed. This means casting instants, activating instant speed abilities (either on cards in your hand or permanents on the field). This is something that new players can initially have some trouble with - often they look over their hand, identify they things they can do, and then simply do them, without knowing when it is best to do them. There are generally two best times to do thing at instant speed. During your opponent's end step Let's say you have Chemister's Insight in your graveyard. You also have Sinister Sabotage in your hand. You have four untapped islands on the battlefield. It is your first main phase. You could definitely cast Chemister's Insight right now. However, if you do, you lose the option to cast Sinister Sabotage if you really need it. Instead, you pass and it is now your opponent's turn. They draw a card and move to their first main. They play a land, then play Jace Beleren. Fortunately you have creatures on the battlefield that can kill Jace, so you choose not to counter it with Sinister Sabotage. Instead, your opponent passes. On their end step, you now cast Chemister's Insight, discarding a card from your hand to do so. This has several advantages. The first is that you could have, at any point, used the Sinister Sabotage. The second is that now you know more. Chemister's Insight forces you to make a choice to Jump-Start it - of the cards in your hand, which do you discard? It's possible that you could have discarded something that would have been useful against something your opponent would do on their turn. By waiting until the end, you have gathered the maximum information possible to make the best decision. Magic is often a game of information - that's why it's important to do things like keep track of which cards your opponent has in hand, if you have bounced a card back or revealed their hand at some point. By waiting to do your instants later, you can get more information and therefore make better decisions. Sometimes you will even see players do things like take a hit from a creature they can kill at instant speed, because of information - if they use the kill spell before the end step, their opponent might cast a second better creature. In this case you are trading life for information, which shows how valuable it is. But the end step isn't always the best time. Here's the second time slot: During your opponent's upkeep Counterspells are a bitch. Often you will see players pass their turns with mana open, because they believe that whatever they play will simply get countered. This applies just as much to instant speed as it does sorcery speed. What if you have a Lightning Bolt in hand and your opponent has Edric, Spymaster of Trest on the battlefield. You feel it is likely that your opponent has a counterspell and they have GUU available, so you pass on your turn. As soon as your opponent hits their upkeep and passes priority, before they draw, now is the time to bolt. There are two possible outcomes here. One is that the bolt resolves and Edric is killed. Your opponent won't get to draw the extra cards that they very much need. Alternatively, your opponent counters it with Disallow. Let's follow the counter path. First, you are lowering the probability that the Bolt gets countered at all. By doing it before the draw, you give them one fewer card to find the counterspell that they need. Second, if they do have the counterspell, you are making them cast it at the worst possible time. Think back to the example with Sinister Sabotage. The player doing the countering wants that valuable information - what will they draw? Will they have a land to play? How will attacks go? What else have you got besides the Bolt? If Edric hit, what would they draw off that? The other piece of it is the opportunity cost. They only have UUG available. The are spending it all on Disallow. At most, they will have one mana available going into your turn. Yes, they counter your lightning bolt. But they can't counter the next thing you play, and you can either play more instants on their turn (if you have them) or big powerful sorcery speed stuff (like big creatures or planeswalkers) that they are helpless against, because they just spent all their mana at the beginning of their turn. They also can't cast any of their own sorcery speed stuff, or anything else on their turn. Imagine the alternative - you try to bolt during your main phase, it gets countered. They then untap on their turn and can do whatever the hell they want. Those are the big two and I think they represent the best time to use instant speed tools for the most common use cases. There are sometimes cases though where it does actually make sense to cast instants on your main phase. Here's a couple. You are playing an opponent with counterspells and they are tapped out This is strongly related to example above. Your opponent is tapped out because of the whole Bolt/Disallow situation. You have a Fact or Fiction. This is a powerful and expensive instant, and it can net you multiple cards. These are all things that an opponent playing counters hates to see. If they are tapped out and you have four mana, this is probably the best time to cast this. It will resolve, when otherwise it would probably get countered. If you let your opponent go to their turn and untap, you most likely won't get to FoF. You need something right now Let's say you are still playing the deck with Fact or Fiction, but you are now facing an opponent who has not shown any counters. It's in your hand and you have the four mana. You haven't played a land drop yet this turn and you don't have one in hand. It may be right to cast the FoF main phase in order to find the land and keep hitting your land drops. I think this one might be more debatable though - most of the time it's right to FoF on end step. So that is a short view into why, if you can do something at instant speed, you should do it on your opponent's turn most of the time. Did I miss anything key? Was I wrong? When should you FoF main phase?
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Mar 2, 2020 05:05
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It can also be correct to play it on your main phase if you have a lot of mana and might want to play (at sorcery speed) the cards you draw off it. Similarly, it can also be good to play it during your first main phase if the cards you get might change your decisions about what attacks you make. Another possibility is on your own end step - if your opponent holds up mana (representing a likely counterspell), then on your end step taps out to activate a Castle Vantress - now's your opportunity to resolve an Instant while they can't do anything about it. E: one other facet that's specific to card draw spells - if you play a card draw spell on your own turn and draw yourself up to 8 cards, you'll have to discard at the end of your turn. If you draw up to 8 on your opponent's turn, though, you won't have to discard as long as you can play two cards before the end of your next turn. This is often relevant in Vintage, where the player on the play will cast Ancestral Recall in their opponent's first upkeep. Jabor fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Mar 2, 2020 |
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Mar 2, 2020 05:13
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Jabor posted:It can also be correct to play it on your main phase if you have a lot of mana and might want to play (at sorcery speed) the cards you draw off it. Isn't this the "brainstorm in your main phase" play that takes alot of newer players who have some experience time to understand. Its like "know nothing, know a little, know alot" things.
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Mar 2, 2020 05:20
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My son is really starting to get interested in Magic. He’s 7. I have a ton of cards from Lorwyn through Alara Reborn and I was thinking of making a little cube out of each set so we could practice drafting. I’ll start with Lorwyn since that’s a nice straight forward set. Any tips on cube construction (i’ve never built a cube). Was thinking 4x common, 2x uncommon and then 1x of whatever rares I have (I don’t have a complete 1x set). I think some of the other sets from Lorwyn thru Reborn are probably not good for drafting by themselves due to the amount of dual color or golden cards but I could add them to other sets. Thanks
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Mar 2, 2020 05:25
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Hey, my daughter is 7 too and I really should play with her more. Really good incentive for learning reading + some basic math. Is he into magic enough for cubing? I can barely get some of the FNM regulars to wrap their heads around it, so not to discourage you, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is a little beyond him for a while yet. If you haven't already, build him a green stompy deck to grind your wimpy blue deck into the table with. Then when he wants to try drawing cards and playing instants, trade decks.
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Mar 2, 2020 05:37
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Rhaegar posted:My son is really starting to get interested in Magic. He’s 7. I have a ton of cards from Lorwyn through Alara Reborn and I was thinking of making a little cube out of each set so we could practice drafting. I’ll start with Lorwyn since that’s a nice straight forward set. Any tips on cube construction (i’ve never built a cube). Was thinking 4x common, 2x uncommon and then 1x of whatever rares I have (I don’t have a complete 1x set). A set cube is usually 3/2/1. Lorwyn is fun, but I do believe what Wizards said about new players drafting it: it is very easy to screw up the board state with changelings and global effects.
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Mar 2, 2020 05:43
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I built my seven year old step-daughter a Cat deck (the ultra-budget version of the Pioneer deck here) but when we play card games we've mostly been playing Pokemon because it's easier and her friends collect the cards. I've been brainstorming some bad but fun decks to play against her Cat deck though.
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Mar 2, 2020 05:59
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LifeLynx posted:I built my seven year old step-daughter a Cat deck (the ultra-budget version of the Pioneer deck here) but when we play card games we've mostly been playing Pokemon because it's easier and her friends collect the cards. I've been brainstorming some bad but fun decks to play against her Cat deck though. I mean, obvious answer. Pioneer Rats. More seriously, I've seen Pioneer brews combining Pack Rat, Piper of the Swarm, some combination of Thriving Rats and Discard Rats backed by various mono-B support cards like Bontu's Monument and Grey Merchant to some success. Some spicy brews even pick up Ogre Slumlord and Ayara with the Monument to get to some real shenanigans, but even a low-power version of the deck filled with Rat Colonies could make a fun opponent for the cats that can be modified easily to present new challenges as she and her deck both level up. e: Not Crypt Rats- those are super not legal in Pioneer. Too many drat rats in Magic. Mr. Locke fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Mar 2, 2020 |
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Mar 2, 2020 06:17
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LifeLynx posted:I built my seven year old step-daughter a Cat deck (the ultra-budget version of the Pioneer deck here) but when we play card games we've mostly been playing Pokemon because it's easier and her friends collect the cards. I've been brainstorming some bad but fun decks to play against her Cat deck though. Mr. Locke posted:I mean, obvious answer. If you wanna go the same route but the other direction on the food chain, or play G(RW) instead of black: wolf tribal on a budget seems like it'd be fun but not so strong she can't win games.
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Mar 2, 2020 07:12
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odiv posted:Hey, my daughter is 7 too and I really should play with her more. Really good incentive for learning reading + some basic math. Yeah we have been playing Pokémon TCG for 3 years now, Netrunner for about 18 months or so and Magic for about 6 months now so I think he’s ready. I’d like him to start really reading the cards and trying to understand what makes a card good in a certain deck rather than just knowing what a card he has been playing for awhile does.
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Mar 2, 2020 07:33
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So just casually I went to go check the price of the secondary market for the new unsanctioned set that came out a few days ago. Turns out you can buy the whole set without land cards for $5, bizarre. Wotc is selling a introductory stand alone set full of 5 cent cards for $50, just because they put some expensive lands in there.
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Mar 2, 2020 08:31
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2nding that Llorwyn draft is not a great starting point for a kid. The games regularly get into super complicated states with lots of onboard abilities (static, triggered, and active, with Xs) to keep track of. You might be able to build a cube that avoids it, but it's probably simpler to do something else.
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Mar 2, 2020 08:34
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Nolgthorn posted:So just casually I went to go check the price of the secondary market for the new unsanctioned set that came out a few days ago. Turns out you can buy the whole set without land cards for $5, bizarre. Wotc is selling a introductory stand alone set full of 5 cent cards for $50, just because they put some expensive lands in there.
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Mar 2, 2020 10:48
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I mean they're not tournament legal, they were never going to have any value. Say that to my gold-bordered ancient tomb <  >e: hell, non-tournament versions of gaea's cradle start at 40€, timetwisters at 300€ junan_paalla fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Mar 2, 2020 |
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Mar 2, 2020 11:02
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junan_paalla posted:Say that to my gold-bordered ancient tomb < This is because for many EDH players, a sleeve playable proxy that is indistinguishable from a legal magic card is worth the money. I have a proxy gaea’s cradle in my elf deck because I didn’t feel the need to own both my foil and a non-foil, and while I’ve never used it to cheat, I can always tell exactly when I’m drawing it simply by touching the card. It sucks. If they ever printed a good gold bordered mana crypt Id value it at $20 easy
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Mar 2, 2020 14:30
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Nolgthorn posted:So just casually I went to go check the price of the secondary market for the new unsanctioned set that came out a few days ago. Turns out you can buy the whole set without land cards for $5, bizarre. Wotc is selling a introductory stand alone set full of 5 cent cards for $50, just because they put some expensive lands in there. This is a good thing and I'm off to buy the first $5 set I find. I wanted to have a copy of this because dumbass $50 price aside this was supposed to be a p good "magic as a board game" experience that I would enjoy playing at home with non grognards.
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Mar 2, 2020 15:07
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I got mine for $30, and took out the 10 basics, and will leave the Un-Decks unopened until such time that I can either sell them or more likely simply make an Un-Cube for drunk drafting. Also if history is any indication I’ll probably be able to sell the foil plains in a year for more than I paid for it.
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Mar 2, 2020 15:10
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Bust Rodd posted:I got mine for $30, and took out the 10 basics, and will leave the Un-Decks unopened until such time that I can either sell them or more likely simply make an Un-Cube for drunk drafting. If drunk drafting is your thing the booze cube is amazing if also a terrifying weapon against sobriety. I watched two nerd get passed out drunk trying to win by creating combos that assumed they had infinite alcohol tolerance (they did not) but it was a good time that I'm glad happened in a house I don't own
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Mar 2, 2020 15:20
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My LGS is selling them for 60 bucks lmao
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Mar 2, 2020 15:46
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