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is pepsi ok posted:Games that do this and pair it with a crafting system where you melt down the 10 random pieces of garbage you picked up into something useful are the worst. Just give me the useful thing as loot and have it drop less often. What am I getting out of this intermediary step?? Crafting in general is just awful.
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Mar 1, 2020 18:38
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William Henry Hairytaint posted:Crafting in general is just awful. Except in the Atelier games, and then it's the best part
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Mar 1, 2020 19:12
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Crafting is cool if it is streamlined and has notable effect on the gameplay. For example,The last of us has great crafting. You can do it on the fly without even going into the menus and there are only a handful of resources. Crafting usually boils down to choosing to make more offensive gear or health. It's quick and compliments your own play style. Resident Evil is similar. Just a couple of resources and you pretty much use them for bullets or health. Having a massive inventory of crap for crafting sucks and is just a symptom of the time wasting design so many games have how. If I pick up something off the ground in a game I should, A. immediately know what it does and B. be happy I found it. Not sitting there going "allright wtf does whisperleaf do? Let me just scroll down to the W's in my inventory and read what 5 things I need to combine it with to make a buff that lasts 30 seconds"
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Mar 1, 2020 20:16
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I do think it's kind of funny that crafting/survival has become so pervasive throughout game design that it's even in a wildly popular Zelda game. I remember like a decade ago I played some free game called Survival 2 where you wake up on a deserted island. You have to find food and water, and you could craft tools and build stuff and I was like "wow this is really interesting, I wish more games did this" and I guess right when I said that a monkeys paw somewhere curled a finger.
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Mar 1, 2020 21:41
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Also crafting mechanics made me give a poo poo about lovely items that I would normally never care about in Fallout 4. I was hunting for screws like they were made of gold
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Mar 1, 2020 21:43
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I think there's two different things that get lumped together when they're really different There's Last of Us/Far Cry style crafting where you have a very small number of distinct crafting elements to worry about gathering And then there's like, full blown JRPG style, DQ11 or whatever, mega in depth crafting The former is obviously way easier to get right
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Mar 1, 2020 21:54
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veni veni veni posted:Crafting is cool if it is streamlined and has notable effect on the gameplay. For example,The last of us has great crafting. You can do it on the fly without even going into the menus and there are only a handful of resources.
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Mar 1, 2020 21:56
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The only good crafting is in Baldur's Gates.
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Mar 1, 2020 22:00
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PinheadSlim posted:I do think it's kind of funny that crafting/survival has become so pervasive throughout game design that it's even in a wildly popular Zelda game. Metro Exodus struck a pretty good balance with it's hilariously simplistic crafting system. Junk and excess ammo automatically break down into the two universal materials, metal and chemicals, when you pick them up. You can carry an infinite amount of these things, and turn them directly into ammo and medkits in the field quickly via a menu with no progress bars or dragging materials to slots. It serves the purpose of allowing you to resupply yourself without blanketing the world with ammo of every type or forcing you to backtrack to an NPC to trade, and doesn't really waste your time about it poverty goat fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Mar 1, 2020 |
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Mar 1, 2020 22:10
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The reason crafting sucks is because ideally when you drop down, I don't know, into a hidden dwarven cave or post-apocalyptic elevator shaft into a lift suspended by a wire, you want to find a cool unique axe or shotgun or something, not another pack of machine washers and elastic bands (24). I think people romanticize older games though, because while in the old days you might find that axe or gun, it would most likely be one that's findable in at least a dozen other places.
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Mar 1, 2020 22:15
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Disco Pope posted:The reason crafting sucks is because ideally when you drop down, I don't know, into a hidden dwarven cave or post-apocalyptic elevator shaft into a lift suspended by a wire, you want to find a cool unique axe or shotgun or something, not another pack of machine washers and elastic bands (24). In the old days trash loot was just "non-unique weapon or armor" and good loot was "unique weapon or armor". Then we got into a period for a while where like everyone was designing loot systems filled with auto-generated or level matched stuff or whatever, so all usable equipment was bland and samey, and crafting systems tried to fill the void. Basically 90's and early 00's games be like...  While late 00's and 10's games be like... 
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Mar 1, 2020 22:52
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A Way Out is one of the best games this generation
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Mar 1, 2020 23:40
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is pepsi ok posted:Games that do this and pair it with a crafting system where you melt down the 10 random pieces of garbage you picked up into something useful are the worst. The worst of the worst are games that do that and also have inventory limits. So once you hit max capacity you have to sift through everything and decide what garbage is the least useful with pretty much nothing to go on.
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Mar 2, 2020 00:27
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I like that in New Vegas you can just play a character that doesn't like crafts and completely disregard that system.
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Mar 2, 2020 00:34
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Jerry Cotton posted:I like that in New Vegas you can just play a character that doesn't like crafts and completely disregard that system. The crafting in that worked well, too. It was mostly crafting ammo, food, or drugs. You didn’t have a ton of resources you had to juggle, and most everything you would use to make stuff was either weightless (lead/gunpowder, for example), or had some use on its own (most food/drug ingredients). You could get some nice bonuses, or make some cool ammo (I loved shooting coins out of a shotgun), but it stayed far away from the loot table.
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Mar 2, 2020 00:39
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the worst thing in all games ever is durability and degredation the only time it ever worked was in old squaresoft games where breaking your equipment actually rewarded you, and the SaGa games where the whole point was to hold onto your one or two incredibly powerful weapons to use on bosses and the game just threw fairly good equipment at you regularly anyway so the idea was to treat them like consumables imo the only acceptable equipment decay is purely cosmetic battle damage
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Mar 2, 2020 00:44
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The White Dragon posted:the worst thing in all games ever is durability and degredation Far Cry 2’s weapon degradation was by and large pretty good. There were some weird edge cases like the insanely fragile dart rifle, but typically, any purchased weapon would last drat near forever. If you picked up an enemy’s gun because you were out of ammo, a lot of the time it would be a piece of poo poo that would jam on you or kind of just fart out a rocket instead of launching it.
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Mar 2, 2020 00:48
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The White Dragon posted:the worst thing in all games ever is durability and degredation Agree with this. Love to cut short playing the actual game to go back to town/base/whatever to do the video game equivalent of pointless bookkeeping. When I've got six Greater Assdestroyers bearing down on me and I lose the fight instantly because my sword breaks I'm left feeling satisfied and happy that the game understands how to build tension and reward the player for the important choices they make.
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Mar 2, 2020 00:53
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is pepsi ok posted:Games that do this and pair it with a crafting system where you melt down the 10 random pieces of garbage you picked up into something useful are the worst. Just give me the useful thing as loot and have it drop less often. What am I getting out of this intermediary step?? It's one of the main reasons I stopped playing Witcher 3 after the first area
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Mar 2, 2020 07:12
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Disco Pope posted:The reason crafting sucks is because ideally when you drop down, I don't know, into a hidden dwarven cave or post-apocalyptic elevator shaft into a lift suspended by a wire, you want to find a cool unique axe or shotgun or something, not another pack of machine washers and elastic bands (24). It's that, but also more than that. For instance crafting Witcher 3 does a good job of frequently giving you cool armor or weapons or whatever when you finish quests, so the crafting system is basically just superfluous busy-work. Like how great it would be if upgrading your bombs in that game entailed completing a quest that upgraded them on the spot instead of having to enter the crafting system after you find the necessary reagents in some random basket somewhere?
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Mar 2, 2020 07:25
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Like a lot of things, crafting systems are the worst in games where the devs clearly don't really understand what they're meant to be for or how they fit into the game, they just have to have them for a bullet point on the box.
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Mar 2, 2020 08:26
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I play most games on easy so busywork crafting systems in games are mostly ignorable
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Mar 2, 2020 08:30
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Far Cry 2’s weapon degradation was by and large pretty good. There were some weird edge cases like the insanely fragile dart rifle, but typically, any purchased weapon would last drat near forever. If you picked up an enemy’s gun because you were out of ammo, a lot of the time it would be a piece of poo poo that would jam on you or kind of just fart out a rocket instead of launching it. look if it does something funny that both the player and the enemies have to be careful for then that's cool! if you see some punk with an rpg but then wonder why the rocket fell on his buddies instead of propelling itself at you then you know not to touch it i guess the other game i consider to have good durability is Monster Hunter. i know the series isn't for everyone but sharpening your weapon takes all of two seconds, no menus, and it's really part of the tempo of the game anyway--if your weapon is running ragged, there's a good chance you're also hungry and your buff potions are about to expire, so it's just a good pacing indicator that you should probably zone somewhere safe, re-up everything, and catch a mental breather yourself. and then you can jump right back in the poo poo in top form in the space of ten seconds. Ghost Leviathan posted:Like a lot of things, crafting systems are the worst in games where the devs clearly don't really understand what they're meant to be for or how they fit into the game, they just have to have them for a bullet point on the box. suikoden has the best crafting, you just have to find the guy with the right level of training, or the smith's hammer he needs, and he'll linearly increase your weapon's power, and sometimes its name/title, for an increasingly unreasonable price im not just saying this because it's easy to rip off and means i dont have to deal with coding an equipment swapping system Fur20 fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Mar 2, 2020 |
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Mar 2, 2020 09:22
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I think the potion and poison crafting in Witcher is okay for the most part, because it supports the whole conceit of Geralt being a knowledgable and well prepared hunter poisoner trapper, but I don't feel like my random JRPG teenager should be a blacksmith or whatever.
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Mar 2, 2020 10:03
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My favorite crafting systems exist to enforce certain item acquisition behavior in players and do not compete or intermix with other two barrier progressions system. I.e, these craftables only make passive bonus items money is for gear youll toss away or this pool of craftables makes ammo this makes curatives so you, the player, must have both. The further you get from this the less likely your crafting system is doing what its supposed to other than "waste the players goddamn time" or going the other way like God of War PS4, "why is there crafting at all"
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Mar 2, 2020 10:14
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I dislike the term gameplay. Gunplay is even worse. I think it just seems weird to have the verb tacked on like that. Like "hey, did you enjoy that filmview or that foodeat?" Maybe I'm old and pedantic.
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Mar 2, 2020 11:29
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vudan posted:I dislike the term gameplay. Gunplay is even worse. 
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Mar 2, 2020 11:37
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I also don't like the term but there's no great alternative
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Mar 2, 2020 11:37
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I don’t really have a problem with the phrase ‘gameplay’ but I’ll always use ‘mechanics’ to mean the same thing bc it sounds fancier
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Mar 2, 2020 12:02
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Caesar Saladin posted:I think the potion and poison crafting in Witcher is okay for the most part, because it supports the whole conceit of Geralt being a knowledgable and well prepared hunter poisoner trapper, but I don't feel like my random JRPG teenager should be a blacksmith or whatever. In Witcher 3 they only make you craft new things just once and then Geralt auto-crafts them from then on, and that's almost perfect; making you craft potions or bombs over and over would be stupid as hell so it's good that they don't make that mistake. But making you go into a menu to click a Craft button isn't good. And Geralt probably shouldn't be a blacksmith, either
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Mar 2, 2020 12:49
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The best part about Witcher 3 crafting was playing on easy and ignoring it, just like oil, bombs and all that other busywork Nothing confuses me more than people who dont rush through all games as quickly as possible.
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Mar 2, 2020 12:56
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JollyBoyJohn posted:The best part about Witcher 3 crafting was playing on easy and ignoring it, just like oil, bombs and all that other busywork The combat is really easy and dodge-dodge-stabby to start with (is w3 a soulslike??) & I don't think you're going to make the game better by removing the only thing remotely strategic about its 10,000 swordfights
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Mar 2, 2020 14:46
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You could go into the menu every fight and apply your necrophage oil or you could do it once and hit easy and feel joy at the 20 hours you've saved
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Mar 2, 2020 14:59
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if you really wanna save time, just don't play the video game, it is inherently timewasting
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Mar 2, 2020 15:41
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Caesar Saladin posted:if you really wanna save time, just don't play the video game, it is inherently timewasting I think video games that people play to relax should feature even MORE busy work, personally. Okay, your character needs to eat, but I think they should also have to wash, dry and store the dishes they use before any combat ot exploration can take place.
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Mar 2, 2020 15:45
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Caesar Saladin posted:if you really wanna save time, just don't play the video game, it is inherently timewasting This is true but i do want to play the games! I just want to do it as quickly as possible to move onto the next one
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Mar 2, 2020 15:47
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Disco Pope posted:I think video games that people play to relax should feature even MORE busy work, personally. Okay, your character needs to eat, but I think they should also have to wash, dry and store the dishes they use before any combat ot exploration can take place. Some people loved the animations in rdr2
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Mar 2, 2020 15:48
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I'm glad that our inclusive hobby includes super easy settings now for dads and small children and m,aybe like busy business executives who don't have the time or skill to play them properly
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Mar 2, 2020 15:48
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poverty goat posted:I'm glad that our inclusive hobby includes super easy settings now for dads and small children and m,aybe like busy business executives who don't have the time or skill to play them properly I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but I like to play inappropriate games with steering wheels or plastic guitars to show people on YouTube on random but skilled and elite I am.
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Mar 2, 2020 15:51
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it's kind of like a tee ball league for 30-somethings
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Mar 2, 2020 15:54
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