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Various Meat Products
Oct 1, 2003

Fire all your disagreeing councilors, replace them with people who will vote with you or are cheaply bought off, pass your vote, fire them all again and replace them with cranky vassals.

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Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice

Elias_Maluco posted:

Yep, once you got enough money to do that, the concil will barely be a problem anymore and elective becomes the best inheritance law.

In this aspect, conclave made the game easier (without favors, there's no sure way to force electors to support your heir, irrc)

Wait you can buy favors to pick your heir? Does this get expensive though in larger realms?

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

It's the same favor mechanic, you can either call in Council Support or call in Succession Support. Not mutually exclusive either, you can get both if you're willing to pay twice.

So yeah it can get expensive if you're buying off rich vassals, but if you have rich vassals odds are you're rich too.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

The entire college of Cardinals just vanished without a trace

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice

FreudianSlippers posted:

The entire college of Cardinals just vanished without a trace


Rapture came early.

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

Finally got Holy Fury but haven’t had a chance to play it yet. What’s a good start for getting a handle on the new mechanics?

Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:

Finally got Holy Fury but haven’t had a chance to play it yet. What’s a good start for getting a handle on the new mechanics?

any viking ruler in the early-mid time period. don't go full early as this is before the 'viking age' event fires so you'll spend a generation or two spinning your wheels, unless you want to start very small. all of the flagged interesting rulers are fun. you can play as other pagans but they don't get the full suite of fun stuff to do like norse characters. do sweden if you want to do nation building against other pagans, do norway (haraldr fairhair iirc) if you want to form a kingdom and do some raiding, or any of the vikings in the british isles if you want to invade christians

important raiding tip - you'll need to set your troops to the raid status in friendly lands, then move them elsewhere. you can raid counties that neighbor you directly without boats, you can raid overseas if there are adjacent boats - the loot will be dumped in the boats. you don't have to siege down a holding to scrape some loot away from the county, but if you do siege down and sack the holding you get a big dump of loot. don't be afraid to roam far from home to get loot, once you're big enough then sacking rome and looting the papacy is a bonanza of ducats. pick on merchant republics at every opportunity. raiding is an excellent way to kill time and stack gold/prestige while you're waiting for truce timers to cool down

Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Mar 3, 2020

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

What's the best way to get claims/war authorization against the Byzantines as a Catholic? I started a game as that Norman dude in Naples at the High Middle Ages start, and have managed to finish conquering Sicily and parts of Tunisia with holy wars, but I can't seem to do that to Orthodox rulers and the Pope doesn't seem interested in getting me a CB...

(Yes, I know that "how to get a CB" is half of the game, but I have never figured it out.)

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

Arcturas posted:

What's the best way to get claims/war authorization against the Byzantines as a Catholic? I started a game as that Norman dude in Naples at the High Middle Ages start, and have managed to finish conquering Sicily and parts of Tunisia with holy wars, but I can't seem to do that to Orthodox rulers and the Pope doesn't seem interested in getting me a CB...

(Yes, I know that "how to get a CB" is half of the game, but I have never figured it out.)

You can't. It's easier to get CBs against fellow Catholics than against Orthodox (or Miaphysite) Christians. They're neither heretics nor infidels, so you don't get any religious CBs against them at all. With the single exception of the pope calling a "Fourth Crusade" against the Byzantine Empire if you're lucky. Other than that, you're limited to forging claims, playing the marriage game to inherit claims/titles, and inviting and landing courtiers to press their claims. Or you can use the Jade Dragon "border conflict" CBs, but you can use them against everybody anyway.

Arcturas
Mar 30, 2011

Huh, that's frustrating. I lucked into the immortality chain so I figured I needed CBs that dodged the classic inheritance tricks. I guess inviting claimants, giving them conquered land in Africa, and then pressing their claims is the way to go.

fuf
Sep 12, 2004

haha
New dev diary on some of the CK3 UI:
https://www.crusaderkings.com/news/dev-diary-16-tutorials-and-tooltips-and-encyclopedias-oh-my

All good improvements imo

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

I approve of tutorial island/Ireland.

An in-game encyclopedia is a good addition. The other UI features also sound like they would be quite helpful for new players to penetrate the dense CK2 mechanics.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Raenir Salazar posted:

Wait you can buy favors to pick your heir? Does this get expensive though in larger realms?
Honestly it's not terrible, favors tend to range between 200-400 gold. It really helps in both the HRE and Byzantine election systems, because they weight their votes by things other than rank, so it's even easier and cheaper. In the HRE in particular, they've got 9 electors: the Kaiser, 4 dukes, and 4 bishops -- and the bishops get 2 votes each, so all you have to do is bribe 3 bishops and you have a guaranteed majority.

Plus, Call In Succession Support lasts for ten years. It's a ridiculously good bargain.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!
Probably Unpopular Opinion:

In CK3 raiding should be balanced so that it eventually becomes unprofitable and stops around the time it did historically.

Perhaps instead of simulating viking raids as 50,000 man armies roaming around burning down Europe you should just raise ships, set the ships (with no troops) to 'raid' and then they sit off the coast slowly gathering gold. As fort levels increase the profit you make decreases and eventually stops.

Raiding micro sucks on both sides and even if you reform Norse the idea of raiding continuing indefinitely despite increasing fortifications and defenses is just kinda silly.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo

Fintilgin posted:

Probably Unpopular Opinion:

In CK3 raiding should be balanced so that it eventually becomes unprofitable and stops around the time it did historically.

Perhaps instead of simulating viking raids as 50,000 man armies roaming around burning down Europe you should just raise ships, set the ships (with no troops) to 'raid' and then they sit off the coast slowly gathering gold. As fort levels increase the profit you make decreases and eventually stops.

Raiding micro sucks on both sides and even if you reform Norse the idea of raiding continuing indefinitely despite increasing fortifications and defenses is just kinda silly.

agreed

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

I love to send my 10k stacks of nomadic horse archers to raid while I wait for truces to expire

Kibbles n Shits
Apr 8, 2006

burgerpug.png


Fun Shoe
I like the "toasts". They could potentially help alleviate my biggest frustration in the game, which is keeping track of who to give a poo poo about after a couple of generations. Edit: not toasts but the one before that, that's what I get for studying the picture before actually reading the text.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


Fintilgin posted:

Probably Unpopular Opinion:

In CK3 raiding should be balanced so that it eventually becomes unprofitable and stops around the time it did historically.

Perhaps instead of simulating viking raids as 50,000 man armies roaming around burning down Europe you should just raise ships, set the ships (with no troops) to 'raid' and then they sit off the coast slowly gathering gold. As fort levels increase the profit you make decreases and eventually stops.

Raiding micro sucks on both sides and even if you reform Norse the idea of raiding continuing indefinitely despite increasing fortifications and defenses is just kinda silly.

That would be cool, raiding micro is the worst part of raiding.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

Fintilgin posted:

Probably Unpopular Opinion:

In CK3 raiding should be balanced so that it eventually becomes unprofitable and stops around the time it did historically.

Perhaps instead of simulating viking raids as 50,000 man armies roaming around burning down Europe you should just raise ships, set the ships (with no troops) to 'raid' and then they sit off the coast slowly gathering gold. As fort levels increase the profit you make decreases and eventually stops.

Raiding micro sucks on both sides and even if you reform Norse the idea of raiding continuing indefinitely despite increasing fortifications and defenses is just kinda silly.

Only if there is some way of fighting those ships. Unstoppable pirates stealing your poo poo is not fun

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


Kaza42 posted:

Only if there is some way of fighting those ships. Unstoppable pirates stealing your poo poo is not fun

Did they say anything about naval combat? It is extremely weird that CK2 is devoid of it.

CapnAndy
Feb 27, 2004

Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Eimi posted:

Did they say anything about naval combat? It is extremely weird that CK2 is devoid of it.
Naval combat was still at its embryonic stage of "ram the boats into each other and then do ground fighting, except standing on the boats instead", but yeah, its lack in CK2 has always been weird.

Everything naval in CK2 is weird and ahistorical, come to think of it. Your armies are untouchable when boarded and ships are ultra-fast troop carriers that happily cross oceans in any season and never ever sink, and suffice to say that putting men on boats was not actually the safest and fastest option in Medieval Europe.

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


CapnAndy posted:

Naval combat was still at its embryonic stage of "ram the boats into each other and then do ground fighting, except standing on the boats instead", but yeah, its lack in CK2 has always been weird.

Everything naval in CK2 is weird and ahistorical, come to think of it. Your armies are untouchable when boarded and ships are ultra-fast troop carriers that happily cross oceans in any season and never ever sink, and suffice to say that putting men on boats was not actually the safest and fastest option in Medieval Europe.

Yeah like even if you don't have the build specific naval buildings, being able to ram transports together would be ~something~. And naval combat was vitally important for the Byzantines at least.

And yeah basically attritionless super fast army teleporters mess with things a ton.

Lord Cyrahzax
Oct 11, 2012

CapnAndy posted:

Naval combat was still at its embryonic stage of "ram the boats into each other and then do ground fighting, except standing on the boats instead", but yeah, its lack in CK2 has always been weird.

Everything naval in CK2 is weird and ahistorical, come to think of it. Your armies are untouchable when boarded and ships are ultra-fast troop carriers that happily cross oceans in any season and never ever sink, and suffice to say that putting men on boats was not actually the safest and fastest option in Medieval Europe.

It also enables hideous map gore, which is the real crime

No more unions of England-Byzantium or Ireland-Jerusalem, please

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
The really weird bit is if you have a vassal with a duchy back home and a single county in the holy land, he can teleport his entire stack of vassal levies back and forth for you instantaneously.

Bloody Pancreas
Feb 21, 2008


I hope character art is moddable and intuitive. The design for the people feels a bit like something out of the early 2000's.

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

I'm looking for a new LP to have on the other monitor at work. Any suggestions for a good CK2 series? Preferably from someone who plays on the slower side, roleplays a bit and isn't a weird alt-right mapgamer.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo

Anno posted:

I'm looking for a new LP to have on the other monitor at work. Any suggestions for a good CK2 series? Preferably from someone who plays on the slower side, roleplays a bit and isn't a weird alt-right mapgamer.

shamelessly stolen, these days this is my go-to for second monitor:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_monitor_Parna%C3%ADba_(U17)

Anno
May 10, 2017

I'm going to drown! For no reason at all!

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

shamelessly stolen, these days this is my go-to for second monitor:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_monitor_Parna%C3%ADba_(U17)

How boring it must be to serve on that ship. But it's a cool tidbit of useless information!

Technowolf
Nov 4, 2009




Anno posted:

I'm looking for a new LP to have on the other monitor at work. Any suggestions for a good CK2 series? Preferably from someone who plays on the slower side, roleplays a bit and isn't a weird alt-right mapgamer.

Aravingloon streams paragames weekly and uploads the streams to YouTube and hits all your checkboxes. He's even streaming the original Europa Universalis boardgame on Mondays.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

It also enables hideous map gore, which is the real crime

No more unions of England-Byzantium or Ireland-Jerusalem, please

You can take my Norway-Egypt when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

Honestly they should rip out raiding as it currently exists and think of a better way to implement it. Maybe incorporate it into a larger border/limited war mechanic. As it is it's basically rebel whack-a-mole but even less interesting and controllable.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

Eimi posted:

Did they say anything about naval combat? It is extremely weird that CK2 is devoid of it.

There has yet to be a Paradox game with enjoyable naval anything so it's for the best that CK doesn't have any.

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!
CK2 is a step up from CK1 where embarking would just cost a bunch of gold. SO maybe they will move into naval combat! They did say they didn't want the focus to move to that (and recognised it's quite bad in other games) but paradox is a very different company from back then.

Absolutely agree about the raiding thing. It's just boring, so many little armies in my land stopping me getting my own armies together for no reason. Get lost.

Taear fucked around with this message at 11:49 on Mar 4, 2020

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Going by sea being a lot faster than land is pretty accurate for a lot of places.

Before the 20th century it was faster for someone who wanted to go from eastern Iceland to the west, or vice versa, to take the next boat to Copenhagen and then catch a ship from there to their final location than to go by land.

As a sidenote one of the biggest battles of the Age of Sturlungs, the 12th to13th century civil war in Iceland, was a naval battle which was basically just a bunch of dudes in boats throwing rocks and burning wood at each other. A feature that should be added to CK3.

FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Mar 4, 2020

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
Funny that the thread is discussing raiding right now. Because in my current game, starting as Dyre the Stranger, I eventually finagled my way into starting a prepared invasion of Sicily. After winning that, I founded the kingdom of Sicily, and made it my primary. And then I requested the Byzantine Emperor to sponsor my conversion. Now I'm sailing around the Mediterranean Sea, raiding all those Catholic holdings, because I can always raid as a Norse, and because Catholics might be fellow Christians, but they're not Orthodox. And the best part is that they can't do jack poo poo about it, because they have no CBs against me, and the pope cannot excommunicate me. I massively enjoy my 10000 raiders burning down Rome every decade, and Venice, and Genoa, etc.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

FreudianSlippers posted:

Going by sea being a lot faster than land is pretty accurate for a lot of places.

Before the 20th century it was faster for someone who wanted to go from eastern Iceland to the west, or vice versa, to take the next boat to Copenhagen and then catch a ship from there to their final location than to go by land.

As a sidenote one of the biggest battles of the Age of Sturlungs, the 12th to13th century civil war in Iceland, was a naval battle which was basically just a bunch of dudes in boats throwing rocks and burning wood at each other. A feature that should be added to CK3.

It was faster, but certainly it was also not so safe

To be able to sail from Denmark to Rome in a few months with no risks involved, not a single death, is what makes it overpowered and very unrealistic

Dwesa
Jul 19, 2016

Maybe I'll go where I can see stars

Elias_Maluco posted:

It was faster, but certainly it was also not so safe

To be able to sail from Denmark to Rome in a few months with no risks involved, not a single death, is what makes it overpowered and very unrealistic
Naval transport could perhaps use some events like storms and such.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Dwesa posted:

Naval transport could perhaps use some events like storms and such.

Maybe attrition too

As it is, troops are safer inside a boat then on the land

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Yeah I like that they added scurvy to make it less feasible to just park armies in boats off shore but boats should be much more hazardous particularly in winter when some sea areas in the north should just become inaccessible or at very least much slower and more dangerous.

Anyone whose ever been on a ship in a storm knows that even with big modern ship it's no picnic. I can't imagine how unpleasant it is on a comparatively tiny wooden sailboat.

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PastaBakeWizard
Mar 4, 2020
My current goal is to turn my home county in England into the biggest empire I can. Cornwall's not the strongest petty kingdom about but eh. With a small Catholic blob, how do I survive a pagan prepared invasion? They outnumber me something ridiculous like 8 to 1 if they decide to show up, and the pagans in their court rarely want to throw their lot in with the filthy Catholics for an assassination.

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