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Grouchio posted:Watch let's plays, music videos, stuff that somewhat often gets copyright stricken in the us? Think twice about immigrating. Then rethink it a few more times. Having gone through it I do not easily recommend it to people. If you don't really need to immigrate you're usually better off where you are, because the EU does not want you and they are not shy about letting you know. And I'm from the US so I obviously have an easier time of it but even then. I won't drag it out but if you're serious PM me and I'll explain some more stuff but if you are considering it then I hope you're a steadfast person who's patient and pretty self-confident because the process will try to break you and it will break anyone less than desperate or less resolute. Unless you're rich, then do whatever the gently caress you want.
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Mar 4, 2020 07:33
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The EU is the European Union, not EUrope. 
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Mar 4, 2020 09:15
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Grouchio posted:Super Tuesday is currently sucking balls; where would be the best place to move to in the EU? Germany or Switzerland? stay home
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Mar 4, 2020 09:37
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Grouchio posted:Super Tuesday is currently sucking balls; where would be the best place to move to in the EU? Germany or Switzerland? Hope you've got a serious, well-paid job and German language skills at the ready if you're coming from outside the EU. Doubly so for Switzerland - it's eyewateringly expensive and really only affordable if you're working for a big multinational or are being paid in Swiss francs.
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Mar 4, 2020 10:26
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You could try and live close to the swiss border, go to work there and come back at night. Heard about it in Austria.
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Mar 4, 2020 10:31
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mike12345 posted:You could try and live close to the swiss border, go to work there and come back at night. Heard about it in Austria. Lotta people do that, but that's because they're paid in Swiss Francs and living in Austria/Germany/France just over the border lowers their cost of living something hilarious so they make loving bank.
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Mar 4, 2020 10:34
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yeah oc that's the thought. I mean otherwise why deal with the swiss
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Mar 4, 2020 10:35
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mike12345 posted:yeah oc that's the thought. I mean otherwise why deal with the swiss It's an insane racists hellhole of a tax dodge country. Otoh my fiance lives there and I'm moving over soon. It's also a magical place where everything works, is shiny clean, they care for the environment and have amazing mountains. ymmv
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Mar 4, 2020 10:39
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Owling Howl posted:You're not going to convince the north, Germans or otherwise, to pursue a policy that will erode their savings. Evidently the south can't be convinced to run economies that doesn't require perpetual high deficits. As such we're at an impasse and we ought to go our own ways. Lol I wonder what happens to savings when interest rates are negative. In wonder what happens to investment when even with negative rates they refuse to spend. I wonder if this will impact a economy that has grown on free trade when that free trade framework is coming apart. I wonder what will happen to german companies, who have grown on the backs of investing on oher EU countries and getting rate of returns of investment by 10-15% year over year. I wonder if that happens, if the German economy will grow at a slower pace than the rest of the EU.even enter a recession. those savings tho
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Mar 4, 2020 10:40
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:Lol I wonder what happens to savings when interest rates are negative. That's part of the history of the Eurocrisis anyway; part of the reason the Sparkasse and Deutsche were so heavily exposed to Greek debt is that it offered marginally better rates of return than German debt does (which was already near-zero before the crisis), and they had a ton of pension liabilities to cover. It's why right now the tech bubble is so insanely hyped you get poo poo like WeWork - a lot of it is giant retirement funds screamingly looking for the returns they promised everyone in an economy with no real, sustained growth.
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Mar 4, 2020 10:55
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Grouchio posted:Super Tuesday is currently sucking balls; where would be the best place to move to in the EU? Germany or Switzerland? Do you do computer stuff? Do you like winter? Come to Finland. All sorts of companies are hiring IT people and since no-one outside Finland speaks Finnish most people not deep in the sticks or over 60 speak English, at least to a degree. Pay isn't as big as in the US, but healthcare expenses aren't either. Especially in the IT sector most companies offer a variety of health services for free for employees.
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Mar 4, 2020 11:09
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Polish Law and Justice MEP: https://twitter.com/D_Tarczynski/status/1234508356968157186?s=20
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Mar 4, 2020 11:38
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Squalid posted:wouldn't it be effectively impossible for both regions to try and do those things independently? Yes, but for that you'll need to disband the Eurozone. The Euro was introduced by France to not have a unified German currency, which would (and did suck) for every country that isn't Germany. In particular, it makes France very much not the leader of the continent, which isn't really compatible with their ego either. Without the Eurozone, countries are free to run deficits. Of course they can't really afford their EU-level spendings either, because interest rates will likely go back to the 15-20% they were before the Euro was introduced. That's also why Greece never quit the Eurozone, despite it seemingly making sense. Essentially, the reality will still be similar to now, except you can afford less poo poo. And you can't blame it on anyone else. Germany will, by the way, still milk other countries dry, even (and especially) by having the most trade and its own currency. That's scenario A. In scenario B, the new Mark just increases in value until Germanies economy collapses entirely. Which would be fine for the South, except it'll also sucks. So everything sucks.
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Mar 4, 2020 12:14
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Hence I propose the following: Take all EU money, every single cent, given to Poland and Hungary and their friends, and give it all to Greece, Spain and Portugal. In fact, throw Poland out of the EU entirely. It sucks, but its gotta be done.
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Mar 4, 2020 12:15
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I'm not sure poland is the problem with the EU.
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Mar 4, 2020 12:37
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Haramstufe Rot posted:
FYI Germany has completely integrated its production processes, especially for cars, into Poland, Romania, Hungary and a whole lot more of eastern Europe. In your weird scenario of punishing Germany, you also break the East even more.
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Mar 4, 2020 12:41
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure poland is the problem with the EU. Which is why Poland will not be removed from the EU.
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Mar 4, 2020 12:42
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Guavanaut posted:The EU reaction to Poland compared to Portugal is good proof that liberals will tolerate fascists more than socialists though. Unlike Portugal which was removed?
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Mar 4, 2020 12:56
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Haramstufe Rot posted:Yes, but for that you'll need to disband the Eurozone. The Euro was introduced by France to not have a unified German currency, which would (and did suck) for every country that isn't Germany. In particular, it makes France very much not the leader of the continent, which isn't really compatible with their ego either. Seems to me there's no way to avoid suckage, so might as well push through to the other side. Once you've got a task to do, it's better to do it than live with the fear of it.
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Mar 4, 2020 13:10
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is there even a mechanism for kicking states out of the union
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Mar 4, 2020 13:19
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also even if you purged visegrad, the EU would still be constitutionally bound to a completely discredited ideology
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Mar 4, 2020 13:21
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Cerv posted:Unlike Portugal which was removed? So as Portugal was not removed, there's no way that Poland will for their quasi-fascist antics.
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Mar 4, 2020 13:23
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I am saying we SHOULD throw out or sanction Poland: whilst it potentially provides great value and labor to Germany, everything they do goes completely against decency and moral values. In contrast, Portugal is doing the right thing, but doesn't matter for our economy so we gently caress them. It's clear what is going on. If we really did give a poo poo about our values, we would slap Poland down so hard you'd hear the bang back in Moscow. We don't we do not give a poo poo about our "values" ourselves. Poland and Hungary know this now. They know they will receive funds no matter what they say and do, because we like their cheap labor force essentially. I know y'all know this. I didn't want to propose a plant to hurt the Polish people or something like that. I am just saying we are showing how inconsistent we are each day, and it leads to all this. Same with Erdogan in Turkey. We built this fucker with our bullshit. Us.
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Mar 4, 2020 13:32
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V. Illych L. posted:is there even a mechanism for kicking states out of the union Nope, none. They gotta leave of their own volition, it's part of the reason why Greece was such a pain for the Northern countries. If they could've kicked them out after they elected Syriza, they would have.
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Mar 4, 2020 13:33
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I mean I didn't build it and unless some of you work in the high levels of the EU or respective govenrments etc I don't think anyone here did either. The wealthy and their polticians built it.
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Mar 4, 2020 13:48
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OwlFancier posted:unless some of you work in the high levels of the EU Well, only medium-level i'd say 
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Mar 4, 2020 13:49
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Meanwhile the Polish and Hungarian banks are actually rather healthy. Unlike Deutsche Bank which according to their own balance sheets is bankrupt and they will need to provide some new numbers on March 20th. I kinda expect a meltdown to be honest.
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Mar 4, 2020 13:56
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Who owns Deutsche nowadays anyway?
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Mar 4, 2020 14:11
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Randler posted:Who owns Deutsche nowadays anyway? Big investment corporations like BlackRock etc, and also a chunk is held by the Qatari royal family. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-deutsche-bank-investor/deutsche-bank-shares-soar-after-new-shareholder-steps-in-idUSKBN2000V0
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Mar 4, 2020 14:14
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Junior G-man posted:Nope, none. They gotta leave of their own volition, it's part of the reason why Greece was such a pain for the Northern countries. If they could've kicked them out after they elected Syriza, they would have.
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Mar 4, 2020 14:56
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What options are there for making a member hurt? Specifically one that's a net recipient of funds. Hungary in particular seems to get a ton of money from the EU. Well during the Eurocrisis the ECB and Eurogroup found all sorts of ways to make the economy scream (to borrow a phrase) but that's more difficult given that Hungary is not in the Euro. You could see about withdrawing funds - there are (I think?) some measures to do that, especially when it comes to corruption, which isn't too hard to prove in Hungary. Problem is that you'd have to pass it through Council and they'd never do it; they would all worry that they would be next. Poland, Hungary, maybe even Austria and a few others will always hang together there.
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Mar 4, 2020 15:43
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure poland is the problem with the EU. Poland and Hungary are both ruled by populist authoritarians who have seized control of all the state institutions. It's a pretty major issue and it's happening in democracies around the world. Kicking Poland and Hungary out would be too extreme though. Withholding developmental aid that they funnel to their cronies would be a better first step. Junior G-man posted:Nope, none. They gotta leave of their own volition, it's part of the reason why Greece was such a pain for the Northern countries. If they could've kicked them out after they elected Syriza, they would have. If the northern states wanted to kick Greece out after SYRIZA gained power, they could have simply withheld the 3rd bailout. Greece would have crashed out of the Eurozone and burned without it.
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Mar 4, 2020 18:46
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What options are there for making a member hurt? Specifically one that's a net recipient of funds. Hungary in particular seems to get a ton of money from the EU. You could rescind voting rights, but that requires unanimous consent from all other members, and since Hungary and Poland have eachothers backs that's uhh yeah.
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Mar 4, 2020 20:19
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Pretty sure they can also levy considerable fines, but then the other states would have to be subject to the same rules themselves and, well.
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Mar 4, 2020 20:34
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Factor_VIII posted:If the northern states wanted to kick Greece out after SYRIZA gained power, they could have simply withheld the 3rd bailout. Greece would have crashed out of the Eurozone and burned without it. Yeah but again, that's the eurogroup, which isn't the same as kicking people out of the Union. Also you can't kick people off the Euro either, as we also discovered during the Greek crisis. Deliberately crashing someone out of the Eurozone still needs the consent of the Member State, and even if they left the Euro it would not have been a guarantee that the Greeks would have left the Union too. The Eurozone is the big San Andreas Fault underlying the whole European project anyway, but again there's no hard mechanisms to kick people out who don't wanna go.
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Mar 4, 2020 20:50
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Junior G-man posted:Yeah but again, that's the eurogroup, which isn't the same as kicking people out of the Union. Also you can't kick people off the Euro either, as we also discovered during the Greek crisis. I think you mixed up the Eurogroup and the Eurozone. If Greece defaulted it wouldn't have been able to pay state salaries and pensions so it would have had to leave the Euro and start printing its own currency (that would have almost immediately become worthless) in order to have something approximating an economy. I never said that Greece would leave the EU entirely. Technically there's no way for a state to leave the Eurozone without leaving the EU, but the EU had come up with a legal fiction that Greece was only leaving the Eurozone temporarily in order to justify keeping it into the EU. However, considering that Greece would have gone through chaos similar to that suffered by Eastern Bloc countries when communism collapsed, it's quite possible that Greece would have gotten kicked out of the EU due to what would follow the loss of the Euro. E.g. kicking it out in order to keep millions of Greek migrants from flooding into Western Europe or if the power vacuum left after the collapse of government were filled by a dictatorship.
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Mar 4, 2020 21:06
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The MFF negotiations haven't concluded yet, and that's where countries can be hurt because the UK is no longer here to contribute. And there's a pretty huge chasm between the requirement by the "Frugal Four" that not one cent more should be paid by them so the EU budget should be shrunk to account for the UK's departure, and the EU's ambitions wrt.
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Mar 4, 2020 21:31
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Rappaport posted:The purpose of the EU, aside from being the most neo-liberal poo poo-show known to man, is keeping Jerry relaxed. As it turns out, Jerry as a nation is still traumatized not by them electing an Austrian chancellor but by the inflation that happened a decade before him. Therefore, the eurozone is a massive funnel of money from the outside to the pockets of Germans! Isn't that swell. At least no one has invaded Belgium lately?
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Mar 4, 2020 22:32
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What options are there for making a member hurt? Specifically one that's a net recipient of funds. Hungary in particular seems to get a ton of money from the EU. They could always flail their arms impotently and back down after a few months like they did with Austria.
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Mar 4, 2020 23:06
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| # ? May 23, 2024 02:34 |
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:Thanks for reminding of the reason I shouldn't read this thread. have you figured out whether gay people can love each other yet
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Mar 5, 2020 06:04
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