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Hypnolobster posted:This is impressive as hell but everybody is ignoring this Perfectly valid form of birth control
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Mar 5, 2020 06:09
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I've got a device that uses a proprietary LiPo battery that's not made anymore and can't run off the AC adapter alone. I've been reading up on what I'd need to know to safely replace it with either a different LiPo with the appropriate connector wired on, or a circuit capable of regulating input such that the battery is no longer needed for operation, either from the original proprietary ac adapter or otherwise. And while I've found a number of resources, none of them fill me with enough confidence to risk this device just going at it, though I'm not sure at all if this is because they're incomplete or I'm just overthinking this. Do any of y'all have any resources I could look at to accomplish this in a well-informed manner?
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Mar 5, 2020 17:41
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I'm finally diving into electronics soldering, putting through-hole parts n header pins randomly all over some protoboard. any general tips for soldering iron best practices & care? I have years of soft/hard metal soldering experience- exclusively with a torch- so I'm immediately comfortable with the thermodynamics/solder n flux behaviour, but an electric iron is new to me. How often should i be wiping and re-tinning the tip? is using a sponge for that actually horrible for the tip? I don't have any brass wool on hand, are there any other acceptable non-sponge substitutes (i'm assuming steel wool is a no-go for abrasion/contamination reasons)? Should I get a lil solder vacuum or is solder wick sufficient for most purposes? Any tricks for fitting components up, aside from a third-hand tool or sticking them in a breadboard?
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Mar 5, 2020 19:57
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ItBreathes posted:Do any of y'all have any resources I could look at to accomplish this in a well-informed manner?
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Mar 5, 2020 20:07
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evil_bunnY posted:What's the device? What does the lipo look like? The WiiU Gamepad. It's a 3.7 V 1500mAh battery in a hard plastic shell, with four wires attaching to PCB, but form factor is less important than just keeping these things functional safely. They also sold a 3.6 V 2550 battery in a larger but otherwise similar shell. This Amazon listing has a pic of the OEM battery, but as they've been out of production for years it's likely just one of many no-brand replacements that'd get shipped.
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Mar 5, 2020 20:21
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Ambrose Burnside posted:I'm finally diving into electronics soldering, putting through-hole parts n header pins randomly all over some protoboard. any general tips for soldering iron best practices & care? I have years of soft/hard metal soldering experience- exclusively with a torch- so I'm immediately comfortable with the thermodynamics/solder n flux behaviour, but an electric iron is new to me. Sponge is fine. Brass wool is super cheap too though, and doesn't require frequent hydration.Your tip should be shiny when you're soldering, not oxidized or covered in gunk. Desoldering pumps are like, $10 and not optional for clearing out holes. Not the same use-case as wick, which is for wicking away bridges in SMD pins mostly. Cover the shiny part in a large glob of solder when the iron is sitting unused for more than a few seconds. Protects the tip from oxides Watch a bunch of YouTube videos. Edit: https://youtu.be/ANBAOv78uKM ante fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 5, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 20:39
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Ambrose Burnside posted:I'm finally diving into electronics soldering, putting through-hole parts n header pins randomly all over some protoboard. any general tips for soldering iron best practices & care? I have years of soft/hard metal soldering experience- exclusively with a torch- so I'm immediately comfortable with the thermodynamics/solder n flux behaviour, but an electric iron is new to me. If you're already comfortable with the feel of solder, solder wick is just plain better than the suckers
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Mar 5, 2020 21:13
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Splode posted:If you're already comfortable with the feel of solder, solder wick is just plain better than the suckers Hard disagree for through holes, for the reason ante mentioned. Having access to both shouldn't be cost prohibitive, and IMO you will eventually need both.
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Mar 5, 2020 21:57
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A decent chinese soldering kit (anything that comes with an iron that controls temp) is going to come with solder wick and a solder sucker.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:10
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Cojawfee posted:A decent chinese soldering kit (anything that comes with an iron that controls temp) is going to come with solder wick and a solder sucker. Nope, just the iron and a spare tip. I'm cobbling the rest together as I go.
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Mar 5, 2020 22:22
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Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Mar 6, 2020 |
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Mar 5, 2020 23:22
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I wipe and re-tin the tip before every new joint if it's been more than like 30 seconds since the last one. It takes 5 seconds to do so whatever. Turn it off if you're going to be leaving it alone for more than a few minutes. If you have a variable temperature iron, use the lowest temperature setting that is reasonable for the work you're doing. For small electronics, 650-700F should be more than enough. Going too hot drastically decreases tip lifetime. Clean up small blobs of solder with the braid, large blobs with the pump. Both are required and they aren't interchangeable.
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Mar 6, 2020 00:50
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Stuff I actually end up using: - Good tweezers, bent pointy tip ones + flat chisel tip ones - Soldering iron+brass wool+flux pen: adding small numbers of parts, removing chip resistors and caps - Hot air: removing anything with more than one pin that's big enough you can't touch both sides simultaneously with an iron - Magnifier - 30/32AWG solid wire with teflon insulation (high temp) for jumpering stuff - Kapton tape for holding down jumper wire - Flat top hot plate: can use it as a preheater to make working on pads connected to copper planes way easier, or to reflow solder paste when first assembling a board - A couple of PCB-thickness plastic blocks with a right angle cut into them: Taping stencils to them for applying solder paste I basically never end up using braid. I find it easier to clear solder bridges by either fluxing them and reflowing, or pulling the excess solder onto a cleaned iron tip. Solder sucker I barely ever use, but it's cheap and makes clearing through holes way easier when that comes up. Third hand mostly only gets used for butt solder splice on wires or to hold a PCB vertical when clearing a through hole. You want one with not-sharp teeth, alligator clamps will wreck wire insulation or scuff through soldermask.
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Mar 6, 2020 08:35
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I use a Proxxon PM40 steel vice for holding parts instead of a third hand. The integrated V-groove in the fixed jaw holds thicker wire really well. It's amazing how versatile that thing it. Desoldering braid is really good for almost everything but there's a huge difference in quality between the normal cheap stuff and the finely braided stuff with a lot of flux in it. It does kind of suck for cleaning through holes though. For butt splices I usually wrap the joint in thin copper wire first to make one of those soldering collars, it also holds the wires together pretty well before soldering. Especially useful when joining multiple wires at the same time. Tinned copper wire is best but kind of expensive so at home I just strip some cheap coarse multi-stranded wire and use one of the cords.
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Mar 6, 2020 09:46
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Oh yeah, that's another thing. For most things, the cheapest poo poo on aliexpress is fine, but not so with braid! The MG Chemicals flux-impregnated stuff is (approximately) ten million times better than the cheap stuff, it's fuckin' magic
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Mar 6, 2020 10:03
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I use a solder sucker pretty often, but most of the time I need to desolder something it's because I'm fixing some crusty old bit of radiation detection hardware and it's a good bet that if it's radiation detector related it's through hole because it's old or it's an old design that's still in production. I'm sure you're not necessarily helpless at desoldering through hole components without one, but in my experience it's so much faster and easier I wouldn't want to go without one. ante posted:Oh yeah, that's another thing. For most things, the cheapest poo poo on aliexpress is fine, but not so with braid! The MG Chemicals flux-impregnated stuff is (approximately) ten million times better than the cheap stuff, it's fuckin' magic I've used over a dozen MG Chemicals products and I've not been disappointed with any of them. Totally not shilling for them though. I'll shill for Apiezon, though. Their products saved my master's thesis
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Mar 6, 2020 11:58
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How does the thread feel about tip tinner? I’d never used it before I started at my current job and now I use it religiously, but I cobbled together most of my soldering knowledge from bits and pieces and random advice so I don’t know what’s considered universally good
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Mar 6, 2020 15:59
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csammis posted:How does the thread feel about tip tinner? I’d never used it before I started at my current job and now I use it religiously, but I cobbled together most of my soldering knowledge from bits and pieces and random advice so I don’t know what’s considered universally good I've never used it, because my understanding is that it's geared more towards rehabilitating abused tips rather than routine use.
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Mar 6, 2020 16:32
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Yeah from my understanding it's to re-tin a tip that you've significantly messed up, not use it constantly since it's somewhat aggressive. If it works for you though then 
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Mar 6, 2020 17:12
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Sagebrush posted:Turn it off if you're going to be leaving it alone for more than a few minutes. Um... totally not necessary. My FX888D stays on for 10+ hours most days, and I've gone through exactly 2 tips in the past 12 months. When I worked as a tech for a robotics company, our irons were on 10 hours a day, every day. Hell, occasionally they'd get left on overnight with no ill effects. It's also not necessary to blob the tip when it's in use, but it's not a bad idea to do so when you shut it off for the day. I turn the iron off, then feed ~3-4" of solder onto it as it cools... when I remember. Don't use tip tinner and don't use knockoff tips. If your iron takes the Hakko-style tips, just spend the money on Hakko ones. You don't need a Hakko iron, although I have few complaints about mine. I've also got a Pace multi-handpiece station, and have used Weller and Metcal gear in the past. They're all similar, although Metcal's tip system is pretty neat for production work. Hot air is incredibly useful, even if it's just for heatshrink or softening plastic. I've got a cheap Chinese hot air station, and I don't see the need for anything nicer for hobbyist stuff. Get a fan set up to blow the flux fumes away, and wash your hands when you're done. Oh yeah, and get several kinds of flux. I've got a pen-style applicator for the liquid stuff, and little plastic flip-top containers for gel. Get a Menda bottle with IPA in it for cleaning, and maybe one for acetone if you're doing a lot of cleaning... I use the hell out of them and they're great. Anti-static mat is useful even if purely to keep from scorching your benchtop. The silicone soldering mats are kinda nice too. BattleMaster posted:I've used over a dozen MG Chemicals products and I've not been disappointed with any of them. Totally not shilling for them though.
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Mar 7, 2020 03:07
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Oh yeah! Good tips! You'll figure that one out eventually on your own, though. I posted this image, back in July:  We were going through a $2 tip every two weeks - Just melting right through. Got an $8 tip from Digikey, and it's just starting to dissolve away a little after 7 months. Usually 4-ish hours per day of use
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Mar 7, 2020 03:36
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I'm looking at replacing an old clock generator card in a radio receiver with a new design (to add some new features like external 10 MHz and change some of the output frequencies). The card is a 1970s design using 74xx logic to divide an 8 MHz clock down to a couple of pulse-outputs. There's some uncertainty with the exact requirements of the output waveform (it's driving transformers that then drive various mixers in the insanely complicated synthesizer in this thing). If I start replacing parts with faster equivalents I'm concerned that it won't work in some subtle way. I've been thinking of adding CPLD programming to my skill-set anyway, and it looks like a MAX V CPLD will cost less than buying equivalent 74(HC/LS) circuits since some of these parts are getting pretty obscure now. CPLDs could solve a lot of other problems I run into later, even if I don't break even on this project. From quickly looking over it, it seems like Intel CPLDs are the cheapest and easiest to get into, Quartus Lite is free and I can program it with a Terasic USB Blaster adapter. Microchip/Atmel stuff seems barely maintained, and Lattice dev tools seemed to be all over the place with licensing but maybe ok. Any strong opinions on Intel vs. Lattice for amateur CPLD dev? (Not too keen on getting into FPGA dev for now, before anyone suggests it  )And I'm sure I'll figure it out when I start developing, but 4xdecade counters (7490), a 4 bit ripple counter (7493), and some (read: 4) NAND gates shouldn't require a very large CPLD right?
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Mar 7, 2020 17:00
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I bought a lattice card to check it out but their website never sent me a license to actually use their software. So I returned it and night a different thing.
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Mar 7, 2020 19:03
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Lattice machxo and machxo2 have been good for me. Xilinx XC9572 is last thing I've used that was labelled CPLD, but machxo has built in flash so it mostly feels like a bigger CPLD (XC9572 is EOL for awhile now but I have a bunch if you want a few let me know) taqueso fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 20:02
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Those old-school Microchip PLDs are really intriguing to me. Quite cheap, OTP, and possibly good for one dedicated task without me feeling wasteful. Their programming strategies are pretty special though, so it seems like it might be a ton of work to get up to speed on how to use them, for minimal benefit.
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Mar 7, 2020 20:40
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sharkytm posted:Don't use tip tinner and don't use knockoff tips. I mean...this is the kind of pronouncement with no followup doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence that it's the Right Thing. Don't use tip tinner because it's bad for the tips? It's not necessary? I'm really looking for the why. FWIW I've got a Weller iron and am using Weller tips. Generally I run at 680F. My cleaning routine when I start and stop work is to roll the hot tip through the tinner and scrape it off with brass wool. Between joints if I notice the solder beading to the tip instead of the pad or component then I'll give it a swipe through brass wool.
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Mar 7, 2020 21:58
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csammis posted:I mean...this is the kind of pronouncement with no followup doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence that it's the Right Thing. Don't use tip tinner because it's bad for the tips? It's not necessary? I'm really looking for the why. Scroll up a little for the big blue picture on why not to use knock-off tips. That's not weird solder blobs on the tip, that's the actual metal of the tip, resulting from it dissolving into the solder. So, you can use cheap tips, and they will work fine, for a very short amount of time. That's not a dire pronouncement or anything - feel free to pick some up and watch it happen. They are cheap, and the process is interesting, so there isn't really any reason not too. Tip tinner is also really harsh on tips and will eventually do the same thing to even good quality tips. I've never used it, so I don't believe it's necessary, either.
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Mar 7, 2020 22:13
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I don't have any wick -or- a solder sucker on hand and won't for another week or so, so I've been doing that "bench-tapping" thing where you knock the board on a hard surface while the solder's still molten to fling it onto the bench as a quick-freezing bead or splat- aside from the fire risk, which I'm being mindful of, is there any reason I shouldn't be doing this, like idk I can see surface-mount components nearby that take some heat could potentially get dislodged or get shorted by dislodged solder? Is this a generally-accepted technique at all?
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Mar 7, 2020 22:39
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Ambrose Burnside posted:I don't have any wick -or- a solder sucker on hand and won't for another week or so, so I've been doing that "bench-tapping" thing where you knock the board on a hard surface while the solder's still molten to fling it onto the bench as a quick-freezing bead or splat- aside from the fire risk, which I'm being mindful of, is there any reason I shouldn't be doing this, like idk I can see surface-mount components nearby that take some heat could potentially get dislodged or get shorted by dislodged solder? Is this a generally-accepted technique at all? Sounds like a great way to get it to fling the solder onto your arms or into your face, both things I've done accidentally when a board wasn't held in place nearly as well as I thought it was. But you're like, a metalworker right? So I assume a few more arm burns won't even be noticeable 
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Mar 7, 2020 22:46
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a solder sucker costs $10 and a roll of braid is like $4. get both by tomorrow on amazon and quit pounding your circuit boards on the table like a caveman. if you're gonna keep doing i would strongly encourage you to wear safety glasses. i've had plenty of little burns from solder balls and i uh would not like to have that in my eyes
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Mar 7, 2020 22:47
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Tip tinner is great when you're at work and sharing a soldering iron with your barbarian colleagues. Ideally you don't really need tip tinner if you're remembering to turn your iron off and not abusing it, but when the industrial designers use it to melt plastic and the other engineer sets it to 500 C to brute force some big components it can help undo some of the damage
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Mar 7, 2020 22:55
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Wouldnt the tip gradually dissolving into your solder mean you've mismatched lead-free solder with a leaded tip?
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Mar 7, 2020 23:16
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Shame Boy posted:Sounds like a great way to get it to fling the solder onto your arms or into your face, both things I've done accidentally when a board wasn't held in place nearly as well as I thought it was. But you're like, a metalworker right? So I assume a few more arm burns won't even be noticeable Sagebrush posted:a solder sucker costs $10 and a roll of braid is like $4. get both by tomorrow on amazon and quit pounding your circuit boards on the table like a caveman. yyyyeah this is one of those things i kinda knew the answer to but needed to hear from someone else (IN MY DUMBASS DEFENSE i actually do have my workbench prepped for hotwork specifically inc. a Solder Catchment + wear safety glasses and fire-resistant outer clothes for this specific thing, i'm more worried about hurting the electronics than myself. esp b/c, yeah, solder burns on this scale are kind of a non-issue, i get firescale burns about once every 15 minutes in the forge, and those are much worse because they stick to you. flux is similarly very bad because it sticks and dumps heat into your tissue, but lil beads of molten metal skitter off your skin unless they land in a pocket, they ride on a cushion of Leidenfrost steam thanks to the heat flashing off your skin moisture + oils so the thermal transfer is quite limited, and generally solder doesn't 'wet' at all to skin and pops off once you flinch) (i'm fully aware that this isnt the sort of thing one should justify, and indeed the justification sounds p bad, but i cannot help myself)
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Mar 7, 2020 23:17
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brand engager posted:Wouldnt the tip gradually dissolving into your solder mean you've mismatched lead-free solder with a leaded tip? No, it just means it's super cheap. All good quality soldering iron tips don't care if you're using leaded or lead-free solder. Lead solder is about 60/40 tin/lead; lead-free is about 95% tin, 3% copper, 2% lead. So from a chemical reactivity standpoint there's not that much of a difference. A proper soldering iron tip is pure iron, because iron is one of the few (common, suitable) metals that doesn't dissolve in molten lead or tin. Cheaper tips might be iron-plated copper, and once the plating is worn through the copper will start to dissolve surprisingly quickly. If the plating is done poorly, there might be pinholes in it allowing the process to start immediately. Note that acid-core solder, as you might get at a plumbing store, will still chew through an iron tip (as well as component leads and the copper traces on a circuit board), so make sure you aren't using that stuff. FWIW we buy cheap tips for the irons at school because the students inevitably crank the temperature up and leave them on all day long and use them to poke holes in plastic and stuff. Replacing the tip once a semester is just part of our normal maintenance. My Hakko 936 at home, I have three tips (broad chisel, narrow chisel, fine cone) and I've never had to replace any of them in like 15 years of ownership. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 23:24
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Interesting. Why are cheap tips copper? Isn't copper more expensive then iron, normally?
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Mar 7, 2020 23:34
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Oh, I had heard not to mix leaded with non-leaded and thought it meant the material from a leaded tip would leech into the solder
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Mar 7, 2020 23:37
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VictualSquid posted:Interesting. Why are cheap tips copper? Isn't copper more expensive then iron, normally? Yes, but it's quicker and easier to machine and it doesn't wear out tooling as fast. The cost of the metal is small compared to the cost of manufacturing. Hell, some really cheap tips might be die-cast, which is far cheaper than machining; you can do that with a low-melting-point metal like copper but not with iron. e: VV yeah pure iron as e.g. stock bar is a lot less common than mild steel, too, so that'll drive the cost up somewhat
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Mar 7, 2020 23:43
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Excellent heat transfer is the main one- you want most of the same traits in an iron tip as you do in a heatsink. A high melting point and low metal reactivity are the other big ones. Aluminium can't take the heat, other industry-standard base metals dissolve readily in molten solder, and precious metals like platinum or gold (on paper probably better tip choices than copper) are too expensive. IRT cost- you need to compare copper and pure iron, for which I'm almost certain the iron is significantly more expensive. Pure, ductile iron is actually a specialty product with very little use nowadays, the Bessemer process directly produces steel without having to make iron first, and steel is stronger than iron + useful for a lot more, so pure iron is actually a niche industrial product made in small quantities with expensive processes . it's surprisingly hard to source. lord how i've tried. Iron isn't a great heat transfer material by metal standards, I don't actually know this but I suspect quality tips would use a composite construction to improve usability without having to crank the heat. An outer iron body with a copper "hot finger" running up the middle to help move heat, sth like that that still takes advantage of copper's thermal qualities. The cheap, easy-to-manufacture version of a composite tip would look like... a solid copper tip with a thin electroplated iron layer. Plating metal thickly takes a lot of time and electricity so they cut corners there, and then you get a plating with porosity/defects right from the plating bath, and which is easily cut through by foreign objects on impact. Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 23:43
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 Soldering irons are complex technology So, in summary: Looks like cheap soldering irons will neglect the iron, and just go straight tin coated copper, which only lasts as long as the micron-thick coating doesn't wear away
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Mar 7, 2020 23:50
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Well no, they can't do that because solder won't stick to chrome plating. That's what "wettable area" means. In the image you posted it's a copper core with a thick layer of iron plating and then chromium plating at the bottom. At the tip the iron is left exposed and the tin layer is constantly refreshed from the solder. I had thought that better tips used solid iron at the point but maybe they are all plated. In any case, the cheap tips have a very thin layer of iron plating (thick layers take time to build up) so they wear through quickly and start eroding. e: I saw your ninja edit. it's not just tin-coated either because tin melts off at soldering temperature. it's just a really thin cheap iron layer Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Mar 7, 2020 |
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Mar 7, 2020 23:54
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