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The Bloop posted:I still think the Borg act like a collective of collectives. There doesn't seem to be a single borg mind that includes all drones on all cubes everywhere, there is probably a physical speed limit to communication even for them, so the borg is more a communal organism with parts able to act independently or reabsorbed into the whole, much like the great link. That's what I'm going for. I dunno if it's specified in Voyager or not, but I always kind of assumed that communication with the overall collective wasn't a constant thing. If some force powerful enough to destroy a Cube comes along, and they don't have realtime communication to see what's happening, they would want to be able to recover the data on who/what destroyed the Cube. "The Queen" is just a more exciting/recognizable anchor point than "this is the device the Borg use to send their Flight Data Recorder home if they need to" Again, I think this would have worked a lot better if using the Spatial Trajector used so much power it shut down the entire Cube for an extended period of time, just to immediately dismiss the "well why don't they just use the Trajector all the time" issue.
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Mar 6, 2020 17:59
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I was kind of hoping they would just ignore the Queen for the purposes of this show, but I didn't have a big problem with how it used that cannon element; it just felt like riffing on the established lore the same way they used plot points from Nemesis. It was dumb before, but for the purposes of this particular show, it's fine. And I have a hard time believing Borg Queens will have anything to do with the story (at least in any sort of overly-predictable way) because so far the show has demonstrated little interest in doing the sort of Voyager-esque plots fans keep wrongly predicting. I also have a feeling if Queens have anything to do with the story, it will just be like Spock in Discovery where everyone has a kneejerk reaction to go "that's so stupid," but then once it unfolds it's alright.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:01
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Guess it's just lucky then. What's the pixar adage, coincidences can get your characters into trouble but not out? Farce genre would be the exception to this.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:03
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Hey, maybe it was already discussed but did I miss a part of a previous episode where Seven's "calling card" was brought onboard the cube and dropped at some point? I felt like it was just there all of a sudden but couldn't recall why.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:05
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I was kind of hoping they would just ignore the Queen for the purposes of this show, but I didn't have a big problem with how it used that cannon element; it just felt like riffing on the established lore the same way they used plot points from Nemesis. It was dumb before, but for the purposes of this particular show, it's fine. Yeah no, it was definitely a one-off lore reference.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:06
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Hey, maybe it was already discussed but did I miss a part of a previous episode where Seven's "calling card" was brought onboard the cube and dropped at some point? I felt like it was just there all of a sudden but couldn't recall why. I don't think so. I just assumed Picard either dropped it or left it intentionally for Elnor and Hugh since they would probably need it more
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Mar 6, 2020 18:07
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Hey, maybe it was already discussed but did I miss a part of a previous episode where Seven's "calling card" was brought onboard the cube and dropped at some point? I felt like it was just there all of a sudden but couldn't recall why. To quote my very favorite line from Pinky and the Brain (can't find the video at the moment) What an incredible stroke of contrivance! 
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Mar 6, 2020 18:11
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Binary Logic posted:Mood watching this wonderful episode I...didn't know Frakes and Sirtis could actually act. This was the strongest episode for me, just for the cabin stuff. Still not hooked on any other part of the story, but I was entertained.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:15
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Lizard Combatant posted:Why would the Queen need to report back via her physical body? The rest of the band.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:19
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Bubbacub posted:I...didn't know Frakes and Sirtis could actually act. This was the strongest episode for me, just for the cabin stuff. Still not hooked on any other part of the story, but I was entertained. I do believe that a lot of our feelings is that we're seeing people that many of us grew up watching, and haven't seen for 18 years, acting like a long lost family. That said, I completely agree with you, and I wish we got more of it, with everyone. Possible spoilers for the countdown comic: I'm concerned about Geordi, though. Apparently he was the commanding officer of Utopia Planitia and personally led the charge for building/repurposing ships for the rescue armada, helping Picard, and was on the ground close to the time of the attack, according to those comics. I haven't read them, just getting recaps on youtube, but I'm assuming there's a strong possibility that he was killed in the attack, which could have led even more to Picard's 180 in attitude. Losing officers was always shown to hit hard, even though it's the nature of life on a starship, but Geordi is family. I could be completely wrong though.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:20
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MichiganCubbie posted:I do believe that a lot of our feelings is that we're seeing people that many of us grew up watching, and haven't seen for 18 years, acting like a long lost family. That said, I completely agree with you, and I wish we got more of it, with everyone. He's mentioned in the second episode of the show as alive though?
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Mar 6, 2020 18:22
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evilmiera posted:The rest of the band. That be Björg, Borgy and Borgetha?
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Mar 6, 2020 18:24
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Mokinokaro posted:It was fine when she was just an avatar for the collective (as Locutus was also) but then Voyager had her acting as an actual commander. Locutus was still very much a Borg, the Queen acted just like a normal human lady with hosed up skin Queen was a huge mistake, probably added in because Hollywood execs are the type to get nervous when there isn't a clear bad guy doing clearly bad guy things.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:26
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Bubbacub posted:I...didn't know Frakes and Sirtis could actually act. Siritis had a bit part on Orville and it was really, really nice to see her and she was also actually good
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Mar 6, 2020 18:29
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Nichael posted:He's mentioned in the second episode of the show as alive though? I missed that/forgot that. That's good!
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Mar 6, 2020 18:30
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MichiganCubbie posted:I missed that/forgot that. That's good! Be thankful he's not in it, or that'd mean his family exploded in a sentient phase inducer accident or something.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:32
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They already killed his mom in TNG Did any character have both parents alive? Very Marvel.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:34
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The only main cast member that has not been mentioned at all is Beverly
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Mar 6, 2020 18:37
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zoux posted:Locutus was still very much a Borg, the Queen acted just like a normal human lady with hosed up skin Yeah I meant that Locutus was obviously meant to be a mouthpiece for the collective and the Queen sort of worked similarly in First Contact.
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Mar 6, 2020 18:40
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zoux posted:They already killed his mom in TNG Worf has two alive parents. 
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Mar 6, 2020 18:45
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Bubbacub posted:I...didn't know Frakes and Sirtis could actually act. You have clearly not watched Gargoyles then 
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Mar 6, 2020 18:59
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MorgaineDax posted:Worf has two alive parents. But also a dead Dad. Mom. Two loves of his life. And a brother who had to have all his memories erased to avoid suicide. Worf really got hosed over in retrospect. Poor Worf.
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Mar 6, 2020 19:03
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Still holding out hope that it’s not a direct line from Romulans to Borg unless they really stick the landing with regards to what that means for Romulan / Vulcan / Borg history. Everything else is so scattered, it seems like the next episode has to reconcile some of what the Romulan synth issue is, and how Oh has seen a synth apocalypse. My long shot theory is that it IS really a few independent AI problems: * Oh (and Federation conspirators) knows about the Control future from Discovery, via someone melding with Spock, giving them reason to ally with anti-AI conspirators * the Borg are a semi-active cybernetic threat that the Romulans are intentionally feeding mind-corrupted operatives, to cause the cubes to collapse; Romulans didn’t make them, they just hate them because... * the proto-Romulans/Vulcans created AI, the AI took over and tried to optimize their society, to the point of genetically engineering their own creators’ species into having super strength, logically-ordered brains and a psychic interface with both machines and living creatures. The AI was defeated but the unmodified Romulans were driven off the planet by the now uncontrolled, dangerously violent AI-designed augments. Hundreds of years of war later, the Vulcans mastered their logical nature and became a functioning civilization again.
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Mar 6, 2020 19:10
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Longbaugh01 posted:But also a dead Dad. Mom. Two loves of his life. And a brother who had to have all his memories erased to avoid suicide. Also his son is a wiener
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Mar 6, 2020 19:11
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zoux posted:Also his son is a wiener He really is, but apparently comes to fill a very important role on Klingon warships. That of comedic relief.
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Mar 6, 2020 19:26
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I have a feeling the Romulan/synth mystery won't have anything to do with the Borg or any other established lore and will just be its own thing. Chabon seems to only care about established canon to the extent it allows him a jumping off point for something new. He doesn't seem interested in the beta canon-style "this is how the lore all ties together" sort of stuff. Drink-Mix Man fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Mar 6, 2020 |
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Mar 6, 2020 19:27
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IIRC, individual Borg ships need to communicate with The Collective at regular intervals, likely via subspace or mini-transwarp relay conduit, or they go dormant. So, if you're sending a sphere back through time where there weren't yet relays in that quadrant, you'd need some sort of plug-in, smaller version of the Collective to keep everything running smoothly. Thus, the Borg Queen. It's also why, failing the assasination of Cochrane and destruction of the sphere, their next move was to build a relay on the E to call in reinforcements. Falls apart from there, though, as why not just go back to The Collective of Cochrane's time and swoop in with a fleet of cubes? Anywho, queen makes sense in that context. If that's true, then good news for Seven fans as that means she can reconnect with The Artifact and not lose her individuality as the Cube's relay is busted. Descent had Rogue Borg...why not Borg Rangers? Yee haw.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:09
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zoux posted:Also, you think anyone ever chooses life? 
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Mar 6, 2020 20:11
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SpeakSlow posted:
Some sort of big bad beetle Borg?
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Mar 6, 2020 20:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMd4S-LkywI
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Mar 6, 2020 20:14
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Really hope the whole Romulan thing is some hilariously stupid overreaction, like v'ger clowned on a warbird once on its way to earth and getting owned so casually just completely broke their cultural opinion of robots
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Mar 6, 2020 20:17
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Imagine having Lwaxana as your grandmother.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:19
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I really enjoyed that, but then I'm someone spending his Friday evening posting in a Star Trek thread on an Internet forum in the year 2020. It's yet another episode where nothing really happens, mind. It certainly doesn't suggest an uptick in the show or anything, all the problems are still there, but this episode was written specifically for people who've watched every episode of TNG numerous times, and I'M NOT CRYING IT'S THE PLANTS DAMMIT. I wouldn't blame anyone less invested in it for not enjoying it, and it was pure nostalgia bait, but it got me. Holy poo poo the chemistry between those three actors. It also sorta unveils something interesting about why TNG did so much better than DS9 or Voyager at the time - as much as I loved DS9 in particular, I can't see me ever welling up at 'Sisko see's Kira again'. That said, the warm fuzzy reunion is a card this show can play exactly once. The show has to live and die on it's own. It's modern 'prestige' TV and therefore needs a surprise hook to get you to watch season two. My money was on them saving the android planet, Picard beaming down, and then OH poo poo DATA TURN TO CAMERA CUE CREDITS based on the line in the second episode about being able to reconstitute Data from a single neuron, but the line about Riker still being a reservist was such an obvious Chekov's gun, I'd be amazed if we don't now get a 'It's the Enterprise!' moment in the final battle that is blatantly obviously coming.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:19
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Really hope the whole Romulan thing is some hilariously stupid overreaction, like v'ger clowned on a warbird once on its way to earth and getting owned so casually just completely broke their cultural opinion of robots "Our uniforms do not look like they came off the beds at a bad motel six you robot bastard, we'll never forget this"
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Mar 6, 2020 20:21
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Carbon dioxide posted:Imagine having Lwaxana as your grandmother. 
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Mar 6, 2020 20:21
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They finally get to the planet and... IT'S PALPATINE! PALPATINE'S BEHIND IT ALL
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Mar 6, 2020 20:23
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 Commence  (not really)
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Mar 6, 2020 20:32
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Is LeVar directing any eps, I know he's directed 29 ST episodes across all the series.
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Mar 6, 2020 20:41
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Just out of curiosity, was the cure for Troi and Riker's kid supposed to be an embryonic stem cell analogy? Cause it seems pretty draconian and more like not allowing medical isotopes because of a general nuclear ban. Are the Federation kicking down the doors on non Federation worlds to enforce this?
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Mar 6, 2020 20:47
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Lizard Combatant posted:Just out of curiosity, was the cure for Troi and Riker's kid supposed to be an embryonic stem cell analogy? Cause it seems pretty draconian and more like not allowing medical isotopes because of a general nuclear ban. Are the Federation kicking down the doors on non Federation worlds to enforce this? I think it was a not-well-thought-out attempt to remind the viewers of the synth ban. It's clumsy, but it'd be like going "we abolished nuclear enrichment in all forms on our planet but this cure can only be grown in an active reactor."
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Mar 6, 2020 20:49
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