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evilmiera posted:I like this anime about vampires it is good. Unlike many other vampire animes, which are bad. NightWalker is fun. Bonus points for its theme song by Buck-Tick.
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Mar 10, 2020 02:38
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twistedmentat posted:I forget that this is intended to take place in the real world, which the show doesn't seem to forget. Carmilla straight up says they can't expand to the west because there are too many strong nations. This is what, the 15th century I think? So even if France and England are in the middle of the hundreds years war, a bunch of Vampires invade with monsters and that's it. They might be able to defeat petty nobles and kings in the less united east, but a large army of mixed units including archers and heavy infanty and cavalry lead by experienced battlefield tacticians, yea you're funky monsters probably wouldn't do so well. Plus it seems like Night Creatures are pretty well known and the ways to counter them would exist. That's one of the things that did annoy me this season. Isaac arrives with a small horde and every city just meets him with a dozen guards? Like what about reinforcing that with archers or even cannons? Or hell, just pining him in place on the dock and throwing down a wall of burning pitch? It's like the opposite of plot armor where the opponent just lose half their brain cells for an easy win.
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Mar 10, 2020 03:10
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maybe a dozen guards is all they have. those places didn't look that big, probably don't have cannons and i doubt archers would have actually helped much. a lot of those beasties can fly.
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Mar 10, 2020 03:13
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Heavy Metal posted:NightWalker is fun. Bonus points for its theme song by Buck-Tick. Luckily I hedged my bets by saying many, not all. There's room for more than one good vampire anime!
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Mar 10, 2020 03:14
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punk rebel ecks posted:So I understand why Isaac wants to kill all humans due to him being a slave in the past, but why does Hector hate humans so much? Hector doesn't hate people. He sees them as animals, and he likes animals. It's just that they're dangerous and unpredictable animals that he doesn't wholly understand, and he thinks it'd be better for them and everything else if they were properly domesticated like his pets. An almost-complete lack of positive human contact may have contributed to this.
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Mar 10, 2020 03:14
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Comedy option, Hector's just kind of completely into the whole thing. And I get the impression Isaac is more the case where he simply doesn't care, and anyone dumb enough to pick a fight with all his monsters is barely going to be a threat to him unless they're a Belmont or an army big enough to see from a while away. It is established that you need specific tactics and equipment to get a bunch of town guards to be any use against night creatures. Setting stuff is a bit tricky given it's easy to forget that the Belmonts at least are supposed to be based out of Wallachia, and I think a lot of people aren't at all familiar with medieval history there except in broad strokes. And pretty much all of Europe was a stinking backwater for a long time from the rest of the world's perspective, I think around this time the more advanced civilisations are likely the Middle East and China.
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Mar 10, 2020 04:03
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Thundercracker posted:That's one of the things that did annoy me this season. Isaac arrives with a small horde and every city just meets him with a dozen guards? Like what about reinforcing that with archers or even cannons? Or hell, just pining him in place on the dock and throwing down a wall of burning pitch? I chalk that up to the guards just mustering who's around at the time, it's not like they had a lot of warning he was coming. The first town where he got a gift and sailed from, yeah those guys have no drat excuse beyond not knowing what his monsters could do since he literally just told his monster crew "hang here for a bit while I go chat in a shop for awhile." That's plenty of time to get some proper battle lines drawn with good equipment, though I don't see normal arrows being too effective on night creatures. I also got a vibe that the places he was visiting early on hadn't really seen them before.
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Mar 10, 2020 04:04
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I don't remember either of their names but I hope Alucard takes their bodies down and buries them before Trevor and Sypha come back.
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Mar 10, 2020 04:17
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Now I’m just imagining him deciding that maybe impaling them was a bad idea, he gets them down... and then Trevor and Sypha show up just then, and he gets into a whole routine of Weekend-at-Alucard’s where he awkwardly attempts to pretend that everything’s alright with them, despite the blood and obvious rotting.
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Mar 10, 2020 04:29
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Not sure if I said before, but still the massive irony is that the twins used their charm and his emotional vulnerability to get him into bed and let his guard down- they used the classic vampire move on him, juxtaposed with an actual vampire doing almost the exact same thing. I think you couldn't get much clearer hammering home the theme that there's not a thing vampires do to people that humans don't at some point.
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Mar 10, 2020 04:32
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I thought it was more to suggest that it's Alucard's humanity that people find attractive, both to characters in the show and us viewers at home, but it's also his greatest vulnerability.
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Mar 10, 2020 04:52
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I thought it was his hair.
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Mar 10, 2020 04:57
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The action choreography (?) in this show is very good. Sypha's stuff reminds me very much of ATLA, which is about the highest praise I can give to animated action. Not only is the action dynamic and well directed, but her clever use of powers is fresh as hell. I was impressed by her stuff in last season's climactic fight, I loving love everything she did this season. I also love how much fun she has being a badass, usually characters in her role in the narrative end up being wet blanket scolds. They don't put that on Trevor either, it was cool seeing two protagonists in perfect sync just continuously killing it rather than getting in each other's way. Also Trevor's whip stuff generally and his little Spike Spiegel routine vs the alley monks specifically were excellent. All the new voice cast is great. Jason Isaacs always brings 110% to every role, Nighy is great playing against type, Jessica Findlay Brown and the other vampire sisters were excellent too. When Warren Ellis is fully powered up, his storytelling and dialogue is as good as it gets
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Mar 10, 2020 05:12
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Yeah, at times this show feels like Avatar if it was allowed to show blood and more mature themes, especially when Sypha takes the stage. Trevor’s almost Grimdark Sokka.
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Mar 10, 2020 05:33
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They definitely show that Sypha is a real threat because of her creativity and skill, not just raw magical power.
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Mar 10, 2020 05:49
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Ghost Leviathan posted:They definitely show that Sypha is a real threat because of her creativity and skill, not just raw magical power. She chumped two vampire lords pretty effectively last season- Cho tried pulling her mist trick and Sypha just loving froze and shattered her (which uh, okay they can turn into millions of particles of water and coalesce back because of *magic* but flash freezing them does them in?) and one of the Indian vampires was dumb enough to walk along her ice wall and got bisected. Sypha vs Lenore would be a cool match up to see, if because Lenore also threw out a bunch of vampire powers in a short span of time to flex that she's capable of a lot of things. Ghost Leviathan posted:Not sure if I said before, but still the massive irony is that the twins used their charm and his emotional vulnerability to get him into bed and let his guard down- they used the classic vampire move on him, juxtaposed with an actual vampire doing almost the exact same thing. I think you couldn't get much clearer hammering home the theme that there's not a thing vampires do to people that humans don't at some point. Remember the twins literally grew up observing Cho do vampire stuff, so it makes sense they would model their social behavior accordingly. They're also cynical in a way that contrasts Lenores behavior- you can't get something for nothing and people that are eager about altruism have an agenda. So the twins probably suspect Alucard himself is playing them like everyone else did. And Lenore understands she can't force Hector to do something he doesn't already want to do, which is why he earns his red wings.
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Mar 10, 2020 06:16
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large_gourd posted:maybe a dozen guards is all they have. those places didn't look that big, probably don't have cannons and i doubt archers would have actually helped much. a lot of those beasties can fly. Wasn’t it mentioned that those places were Tunis and Genoa? Hector’s story was visually amazing and fun to watch, but didn’t make any drat sense at all.
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Mar 10, 2020 06:35
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Thundercracker posted:That's one of the things that did annoy me this season. Isaac arrives with a small horde and every city just meets him with a dozen guards? Like what about reinforcing that with archers or even cannons? Or hell, just pining him in place on the dock and throwing down a wall of burning pitch? That's the entire season's plot, though. Nothing makes sense and every character does the dumbest thing possible because nothing would happen if they didn't. What's that? Creepy cultish religious guys carving mysterious evil hell symbols across town? Better just, you know. Ignore those and then be shocked when magic happens. Strangers show up to your place and insist they want to hunt and kill vampires, then constantly ask you where your magical castle's magical movement machine is and get weirdly upset that you aren't "showing them enough" after you already cook for them, teach them how to fight and give them magical stuff from your armories? Better trust, then gently caress, them! Meet some nice people for once, including one guy who makes a pretty convincing argument about maybe not all of humanity deserves wiping out? Well those guards were rude. Better gleefully murder all humans.
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Mar 10, 2020 07:15
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https://mobile.twitter.com/Jazuchanrio/status/1237214857100840962
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Mar 10, 2020 07:54
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So does the knife sometimes make hellbeasts but other times just stab dudes?
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Mar 10, 2020 08:23
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Making hellbeasts is a kind of magic spell that Isaac casts using the knife. It just depends on what he wants to do.
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Mar 10, 2020 09:01
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Bip Roberts posted:So does the knife sometimes make hellbeasts but other times just stab dudes? Yes it has a bright red flowing aura around it when it makes hellbeasts
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Mar 10, 2020 09:10
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Bip Roberts posted:So does the knife sometimes make hellbeasts but other times just stab dudes? He stopped making hellbeasts just halfway through the fight and, like most of the characters, became a ninja instead.
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Mar 10, 2020 09:48
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It was pretty obvious early on that once the wizard started to have his zombies actually fight back, Isaac wouldn't be able to replace his creatures faster than they got taken out, so rather than spend effort on it, he just focused on getting to the wizard asap to gank him in person.
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Mar 10, 2020 09:53
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Should be noted that most of the action-y characters in this show are directly based on protagonists, party members and/or antagonists of Castlevania games, where being able to kick rear end in various ways is a requirement. Although apparently Isaac is portrayed a lot more formidable while Hector is... not. Also that the fight with the wizard plays to Isaac's strengths, since he's fast, smart and knows a lot about monsters, vampires and magic. It's hammered home a lot in the show that to effectively fight monsters and magic you need to know what you're up against and have countermeasures for it, which is the Belmonts' whole thing, and it's surprisingly plausible to even the odds once you do- most night creatures aren't very smart (most, of course, the philosopher aside), and fight with very little sense of self-preservation, and vampires probably aren't used to humans who know what they're up against. The wizard seems like a generic villain, but I feel he's played pretty well- why bother talking to people or explaining your plan when you can just make them your mind slaves? He strikes me as an old man who studied all his life until he mastered exactly one trick (well, maybe a few given Legion) and that was all he needed, until someone who actually knew what he was up against came along. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Mar 10, 2020 |
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Mar 10, 2020 10:08
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Bip Roberts posted:So does the knife sometimes make hellbeasts but other times just stab dudes? it seems like he has to intentionally imbue the knife with demon-turning powers, and he can control how much energy he wants to put into that. like when he summons up the gigantic demon to fight legion, he takes a lot longer to summon/forge that one that he does with the others which only take a moment. i wonder if it's just that knife or if he could imbue any object with the effect that being killed with it turns you into a demon large_gourd fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Mar 10, 2020 |
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Mar 10, 2020 10:21
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Bip Roberts posted:So does the knife sometimes make hellbeasts but other times just stab dudes? I just assumed Isaac ran out of MP after making the big hell beast and that’s why he switched to only stabbing people with the knife in the final ascent.
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Mar 10, 2020 10:40
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Isaac’s Dagger is the arcane focii of his magic. It’s also a very sharp piece of metal. Both can be effective in different ways. Jesus I was not ready for that LMAO
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Mar 10, 2020 12:16
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 I assume the Issac wizard fight was an homage/reference to this.
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Mar 10, 2020 14:31
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Pretty clearly yeah, been referenced a lot under its better known name as Legion.
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Mar 10, 2020 14:54
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Well I'm afraid that Granfalloon kicks the poo poo out of the other name. Warren Ellis does pretty famously not give a poo poo about "established Castlevania lore" so when I see something that's supposed to be a nod to the video games (something more subtle, like Trevor grabbing the axe with his whip and using it to kill the dude in the air) or even huge rear end bosses I wonder if that's coming from the art and animation department, or Ellis saw a picture of the giant ball of dudes and was like, oh that I can use. Like I said, whatever term is analogous to fight choreography in animation in this show is outstanding, and I don't know how involved Ellis is in that and how much comes from the people actually putting pen to paper. I appreciate that they give all the night creatures unique and hosed up designs, rather than a horde of the exact same monsters, but I don't know if the art style matches up with it. Of course, imo the final word in infernal imagery is Wayne Barlow so I'm going to be biased. Feels like they were going for a similar aesthetic, especially clear in their depiction of Hell itself, but like I said, I don't know if the anime style works with it as well as it could. zoux fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Mar 10, 2020 |
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Mar 10, 2020 15:01
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Choreography and even what monsters to use for what scenes is almost all entirely up to the directors to guide, not the writers. You'll notice that almost all monsters are called night creatures even if they're a well established folk lore being like werewolves.
Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Mar 10, 2020 |
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Mar 10, 2020 15:15
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IIRC apparently the way Forge Masters work is they create monsters based on human imagination. Either way, Castlevania lore is vague and contradictory, and Ellis is apparently advised by fans of the games and I imagine not holding the series in contempt, just taking the characters and ideas available to him.
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Mar 10, 2020 15:24
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They say in the show the demons he summons are specific damned souls from hell so I assume their shapes are already defined. We see in Isaac’s Granfaloon fight he summons a huge giant boss monster, which indicates that he knows what specific type of demon he needs for any given situation (electric powers, a horse to ride, flying guys, Etc)
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Mar 10, 2020 15:28
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Ghost Leviathan posted:IIRC apparently the way Forge Masters work is they create monsters based on human imagination. Oh I'm not saying that at all. That he's still on CV after this many episodes indicates that a) they're letting him do whatever the gently caress he wants (and you can see how bonkers it's getting) and b) that he finds the setting and characters interesting. Also probably Netflix is handing him a sack full of cash. It is very rare for Ellis to spend a long time on a single project, especially one he didn't create. Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Choreography and even what monsters to use for what scenes is almost all entirely up to the directors to guide, not the writers. You'll notice that almost all monsters are called night creatures even if they're a well established folk lore being like werewolves. BTW Trevor killing that werewolf with his bare hands was so cool. I thought this season did a better job by interspersing action scenes into the episodes rather than backloading them into basically one.
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Mar 10, 2020 16:03
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Legion is a lot cooler in the video games because it's not controlled by a wizard but rather a weird squiggly thing, and all the corpses are Fully Nude.Ghost Leviathan posted:IIRC apparently the way Forge Masters work is they create monsters based on human imagination. I don't think Ellis has ever worked on anything without holding the source material in contempt, and I'm including his original works.
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Mar 10, 2020 16:38
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He’s simply a contemptuous person. that’s, if we’re being honest, the anchor of his charm
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Mar 10, 2020 16:40
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All the great British comic book writers are irascible as all hell
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Mar 10, 2020 16:51
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zoux posted:All the great British comic book writers are irascible as all hell ^^^^^^ It’s their absolute contempt for humanity that makes reading their work so much fun!
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Mar 10, 2020 17:04
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I just genuinely wish it didn’t also make them irreparably horny
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Mar 10, 2020 17:05
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