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LinYutang posted:Building a support base that has some people over 50. That's a goal, not a strategy. Try again.
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Mar 10, 2020 18:59
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Angry_Ed posted:If Elizabeth Warren and her supporters are supposed to get over themselves and how they feel they were treated by a small number of Bernie Sanders' supporters and support Bernie, then you can get over yourself about random neoliberals blaming you for 2016.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:00
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I had a horrible thought: if Biden gets the delegates and dies before the convention, they would definitely nominate Clinton again...
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Mar 10, 2020 19:02
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Raenir Salazar posted:I do not believe this is something the Establishment(tm, OC do not steal) can reliable do forever going forward and that there are mitigation strategies Bernie's successor can pursue. what are you talking about? it's so loving easy for the democratic party to perpetually go on forever unless if there's a dramatic change (e.g. - it gets destroyed from the inside via a bernie takeover, or it gets destroyed from the outside via an embarrassing loss). here's the cliff notes: 1. run a corporatist hack with woke credentials and win on "going back to 5 years ago" 2. get hamstrung by congress then get demolished in the midterms 3. lose to an even more fascist republican 4 years later who correctly identifies that everything isn't sunshine and rainbows 4. run a corporatist hack with work credentials and win on "going back to 5 years ago" 5. get hamstrung by congress then get demolished in the midterms 6. lose to an even more fascist republican 4 years later who correctly identifies that everything isn't sunshine and rainbows 7. run a corporatist hack with work credentials and win on "going back to 5 years ago" do you see the loving pattern now?
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Mar 10, 2020 19:03
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Random Stranger posted:I had a horrible thought: if Biden gets the delegates and dies before the convention, they would definitely nominate Clinton again... They absolutely will not
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Mar 10, 2020 19:03
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Halloween Jack posted:It wasn't "random neoliberals" though, it was people who get paid to repeat those lies all day. People get paid to repeat lies all the time, why should I care. I cannot bring myself to give anything approaching a poo poo in regards to someone trying to blame me or the rest of the left for 2016 regardless of if it's some random twitter account or some talking head. My anger and my effort are better spent elsewhere.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:03
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Random Stranger posted:I had a horrible thought: if Biden gets the delegates and dies before the convention, they would definitely nominate Clinton again... They wouldn’t be that dumb, but I honestly think Hillary would push for it.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:04
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Angry_Ed posted:People get paid to repeat lies all the time, why should I care. Because it shapes the public narrative and makes it more difficult to advance leftist candidates and aims. I mean, it's good if you can not be angry and instead channel it into focus, but you have to understand who your enemies are. The Democratic and media establishment are the left's enemies, and we need to be on the same page on that going forward.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:06
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Majorian posted:Because it shapes the public narrative and makes it more difficult to advance leftist candidates and aims. The media isn't going to change for you, figure it the gently caress out. EDIT: Seriously I've seen people on this forum complaining about the media for at least a decade now. At no point does anyone think "maybe if we started our own news media we could counter this bullshit". Instead I just see continued complaining. It's pathetic, really. You think AOC, Omar, Tlaib, etc. got where they got by despairing about the media? No.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:07
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Angry_Ed posted:The media isn't going to change for you, figure it the gently caress out. I never said anything of the sort, and I'm not sure why you think I did.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:08
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Nazzadan posted:Question, am I allowed to support Bernie until it is no longer possible, then vote blue no matter who, and then hate anyone and everyone that forced me to do so for possibly the rest of my life? That’s pretty much my plan
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Mar 10, 2020 19:08
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+1 vote for Bernie in Michigan
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Mar 10, 2020 19:10
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I refuse to vote for Biden, but I'm in Tennessee so my vote in the general is meaningless anyways. Even if it did matter, I'm not sure I could bring myself to do it. I'm really not. I'm so loving fed up with this party.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:11
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kidkissinger posted:such as... I talked about this at length in previous posts. Here's the cliff notes: -Actually be a life long democrat. -Build more bridges with minority communities. Work hard to not give off the false impression you support the utterly tonedeaf notion of "no war but the class war". This probably didn't significantly cost any votes but it probably didn't win any over either. -Build bridges with subsets of the establishment and congressional democrats outside the squad while working to elect more people to the squad. Build up a trove of favours that people will owe you, make politicians in debt to you to sway them away from the reactionary subsets of the establishment. Make it so that the media and establishment can't just rally behind one candidate, actually drive a wedge there. No I don't believe this is impossible or you shouldn't do this if it turns out you can, get out of here. In short, be willing to participate in the game, while taking every effort to still maintain a reputation of integrity. None of this requires accepting lobbyist cheques.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:11
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Raenir Salazar posted:I talked about this at length in previous posts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0
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Mar 10, 2020 19:12
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Honestly, I hope the Bernie wing rides with him to the very end. Full-on Bernie or Bust. Then, when Biden wins, his administration will owe absolutely nothing to them and we’ll see smart politicians no longer trying to appeal to their losing formula. Then we can actually start pushing forward effective programs that make people’s lives better without worrying that a few dozen trust fund commies and podcasts running off patreon donations call it bad praxis. (Remember when we almost had a $12/minimum wage that would have been pegged to inflation back in 2010? But the “fight for 15!” people helped kill it. Now we might get $15 a decade later when that initial $12 would be worth $15 already...)
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Mar 10, 2020 19:13
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Note that being DSA who are also Democrats counts as "being a Democrat" so I don't know what you're on about.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:14
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Angry_Ed posted:Seriously I don't give a gently caress if some centrist shithead thinks 2016 was my fault. LanceHunter posted:Honestly, I hope the Bernie wing rides with him to the very end. Full-on Bernie or Bust. Then, when Biden wins, his administration will owe absolutely nothing to them and we’ll see smart politicians no longer trying to appeal to their losing formula. Then we can actually start pushing forward effective programs that make people’s lives better without worrying that a few dozen trust fund commies and podcasts running off patreon donations call it bad praxis. Edit: I just want to thank you for this reply. Sometimes the conversation gets a little heated and it really helps when some absolute dolt wanders in so we can all dunk on them. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Mar 10, 2020 |
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Mar 10, 2020 19:14
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Raenir Salazar posted:
Bernie did this to the extent that he could, he literally passed legislation with Amy Klobuchar. I also don't see how you work with people who are openly opposed to your platform. This is some "we need to reach out to republicans" BS
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Mar 10, 2020 19:15
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kidkissinger posted:Bernie did this to the extent that he could, he literally passed legislation with Amy Klobuchar. I also don't see how you work with people who are openly opposed to your platform. This is some "we need to reach out to republicans" BS AOC literally proposed legislation with Ted loving Cruz so this isn't the killshot you thought it was.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:16
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kidkissinger posted:Bernie did this to the extent that he could, he literally passed legislation with Amy Klobuchar. I also don't see how you work with people who are openly opposed to your platform. This is some "we need to reach out to republicans" BS Bernie literally just went on Fox News to reach out to Republicans.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:16
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LanceHunter posted:Honestly, I hope the Bernie wing rides with him to the very end. Full-on Bernie or Bust. Then, when Biden wins, his administration will owe absolutely nothing to them and we’ll see smart politicians no longer trying to appeal to their losing formula. Then we can actually start pushing forward effective programs that make people’s lives better without worrying that a few dozen trust fund commies and podcasts running off patreon donations call it bad praxis. (Remember when we almost had a $12/minimum wage that would have been pegged to inflation back in 2010? But the “fight for 15!” people helped kill it. Now we might get $15 a decade later when that initial $12 would be worth $15 already...) I love that you think the playbook that the Democrats ran between 2010-2016 was successful.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:17
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Angry_Ed posted:AOC literally proposed legislation with Ted loving Cruz so this isn't the killshot you thought it was. And Bernie Sanders has a long record of working with moderates and republicans as well. The point the poster was trying to make was that he should do that if he wants to succeed.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:17
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kidkissinger posted:Bernie did this to the extent that he could, he literally passed legislation with Amy Klobuchar. I also don't see how you work with people who are openly opposed to your platform. This is some "we need to reach out to republicans" BS Other Democrats aren't Republicans. Co-signing legislation is trivial, just because they like working with you doesn't make them go to bat for you when things get tough. You want them to actually owe you and there's no indication Bernie put in substantial effort into this; his successor however probably can. LanceHunter posted:Honestly, I hope the Bernie wing rides with him to the very end. Full-on Bernie or Bust. Then, when Biden wins, his administration will owe absolutely nothing to them and we’ll see smart politicians no longer trying to appeal to their losing formula. Then we can actually start pushing forward effective programs that make people’s lives better without worrying that a few dozen trust fund commies and podcasts running off patreon donations call it bad praxis. This is your real enemy right here.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:17
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LanceHunter posted:Honestly, I hope the Bernie wing rides with him to the very end. Full-on Bernie or Bust. Then, when Biden wins, his administration will owe absolutely nothing to them and we’ll see smart politicians no longer trying to appeal to their losing formula. Then we can actually start pushing forward effective programs that make people’s lives better without worrying that a few dozen trust fund commies and podcasts running off patreon donations call it bad praxis. hell yeah, making kids in cages for being mexican official democratic policy, to own the bros
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Mar 10, 2020 19:17
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Angry_Ed posted:The media isn't going to change for you, figure it the gently caress out. There is actually a lot of decent independent media on youtube that isn't corporate owned. The problem is the boomers all watch cable and they are the ones that vote. Hopefully that will change as the millenials get older.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:17
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Biden has FL ge in play & Mayor Pete on trade. Also, now looks like he can win w/ Harris @ the VP slot in the Midwest! Best-case scenario: Polls hold up & Bernie drops out so we don't have to deal w/ another debate & can move on to VP conjecture until July.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:18
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LanceHunter posted:Honestly, I hope the Bernie wing rides with him to the very end. Full-on Bernie or Bust. Then, when Biden wins, his administration will owe absolutely nothing to them and we’ll see smart politicians no longer trying to appeal to their losing formula. Then we can actually start pushing forward effective programs that make people’s lives better without worrying that a few dozen trust fund commies and podcasts running off patreon donations call it bad praxis. (Remember when we almost had a $12/minimum wage that would have been pegged to inflation back in 2010? But the “fight for 15!” people helped kill it. Now we might get $15 a decade later when that initial $12 would be worth $15 already...) Biden isn’t winning the general election.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:18
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Raenir Salazar posted:Other Democrats aren't Republicans. Co-signing legislation is trivial, just because they like working with you doesn't make them go to bat for you when things get tough. You want them to actually owe you and there's no indication Bernie put in substantial effort into this; his successor however probably can. how exactly do you exert power in a way that you get the people in control of the party to owe you?
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Mar 10, 2020 19:18
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LinYutang posted:Bernie literally just went on Fox News to reach out to Republicans. How mature of you to admit that fox news republicans are more receptive than establishment democrats to policies that will make things better for ordinary people.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:18
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kidkissinger posted:how exactly do you exert power in a way that you get the people in control of the party to owe you? What kind of word salad is this. Nonsense posted:Biden isn’t winning the general election. He polls just as well as Bernie does.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:19
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Then again lol https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1237442130844495872?s=20
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Mar 10, 2020 19:20
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Raenir Salazar posted:He polls just as well as Bernie does. That's gonna change really fast and really soon.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:20
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Raenir Salazar posted:What kind of word salad is this. how do you make the democrats "owe you" ?
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Mar 10, 2020 19:20
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ManBoyChef posted:There is actually a lot of decent independent media on youtube that isn't corporate owned. The problem is the boomers all watch cable and they are the ones that vote. Hopefully that will change as the millenials get older. I mean, I wasn't exactly worried about millenials here, but yeah I could've made my point better.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:21
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Lol this idiot is going to beat Biden, that's how bad Biden is
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Mar 10, 2020 19:21
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LanceHunter posted:Honestly, I hope the Bernie wing rides with him to the very end. Full-on Bernie or Bust. Then, when Biden wins, his administration will owe absolutely nothing to them and we’ll see smart politicians no longer trying to appeal to their losing formula. Then we can actually start pushing forward effective programs that make people’s lives better without worrying that a few dozen trust fund commies and podcasts running off patreon donations call it bad praxis. (Remember when we almost had a $12/minimum wage that would have been pegged to inflation back in 2010? But the “fight for 15!” people helped kill it. Now we might get $15 a decade later when that initial $12 would be worth $15 already...) Bullshit
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Mar 10, 2020 19:22
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Skyarb posted:Lol this idiot is going to beat Biden, that's how bad Biden is Yeah, this election should be easy for the Dems, but, welp, better to lose to the dumbest president in history than win with someone who will make Neera Tanden irrelevant.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:22
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LanceHunter posted:Honestly, I hope the Bernie wing rides with him to the very end. Full-on Bernie or Bust. Then, when Biden wins, his administration will owe absolutely nothing to them and we’ll see smart politicians no longer trying to appeal to their losing formula. Then we can actually start pushing forward effective programs that make people’s lives better without worrying that a few dozen trust fund commies and podcasts running off patreon donations call it bad praxis. (Remember when we almost had a $12/minimum wage that would have been pegged to inflation back in 2010? But the “fight for 15!” people helped kill it. Now we might get $15 a decade later when that initial $12 would be worth $15 already...) what are you smoking because apparently it isn't mids
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Mar 10, 2020 19:23
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Biden is the kind slavemaster, and therefore in the long run much worse than Trump.
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Mar 10, 2020 19:24
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