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Gene Hackman Fan posted:hey. so as a still-unaffiliated leftist looking to learn more theory so that i'm not metaphorically wandering aimlessly trying to achieve praxis, i'm trying to read "what is to be done?" most of what is to be done focuses on the question of building a revolutionary socialist party. there's more contemporary and shorter essays and pamphlets that help summarize the ideas and give historical examples. this is a link to judy beishon's "the role of a revolutionary party" which helped me understand better how the party functions http://www.marxism.org.uk/pack/party.html, and it also references some other shorter but older works you could follow up on like "the class the party and the leadership" by trotsky which touch on similar ideas an older one but still somewhat relevant is cannon's "the revolutionary party and its role in the struggle for socialism" https://www.marxists.org/archive/cannon/works/1967/party.htm there's other essays and works out there that touch on and summarize the same ideas but those and some other works which unfortunately aren't available online anywhere are what helped me understand the role of the revolutionary party. always happy to talk more about it here or in pms too.
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Mar 10, 2020 23:17
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i've been working through some of richard lewontin's stuff, which is a dialectical take on evolutionary biology. it's great, and there's not too much maths.
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Mar 11, 2020 05:30
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A4R8 posted:Don’t get me wrong, I much prefer the Marxist intellectuals out there like Richard Wolff, et cetera; however, the Overton Window in this country has moved so far right it results in the Democratic Party standing for literally nothing but the further ideological entrenchment of inverted totalitarianism and social fascism within the body politic. It's not about whether one's marxist, I mean Harvey is definitely intellectually marxist, and Wolff IMO is less respectable than some (most? all?) of the stuff on your list, including Hedges now. I'd characterize it like, whether a leftist is a radical democrat or a radical socialist. For example Harvey openly says that as things stand, radical socialist action can only produce incredible tragedy, and it must first be made possible by first taking lots of little powers over how society is laid out from capital to the people. So he's a radical democrat and a soft socialist whose basic stance is to oppose radical socialism. The contradiction should be obvious: there's a line that can be crossed, after which Harvey would consider you an incredible danger to society, precisely for the intensity of your leftism. And so it goes more generally as well. But he and others can't present Karl Marx as having been a menace to society, so they must deradicalize him a notch. The radical democrats do produce actual radical concepts, like that totalitarization of society thesis is a moral and practical call to action. Lots of them do practical organizing or other activism, they're no joke. And they genuinely are by far the most known and liked section of the US radleft. But they are not radical because they're that anticapitalist, they're radical because they perceive their society to have fallen just that far from the ideals of something like 60's - 80's Sweden. Whether their actual methods are enough to radically change things for the better depends on what is possible right now. Sort of like how the Democrats claim Trump to represent fascism but nothing in their actual action makes them look like they're fighting fascists, the radical democrats also don't look like they're fighting something like that. Their best theoretical concepts are more radical, demand a higher level of practical radicalism, than they can find in themselves. So the stuff on your list is definitely very good recommendations, I just think they should be read from the perspective of radical socialism rather than that of their actual authors.
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Mar 11, 2020 05:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9YtXRXI7mU I enjoyed this interview with chris cutrone as it's p condemnatory of the dsa and the whole bernie thing. time for the left to stop being so naive.
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Mar 11, 2020 06:06
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Rated PG-34 posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9YtXRXI7mU got any bullet points?
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Mar 11, 2020 06:08
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Talking about leftist authors and no one has mentioned Michael Parenti? He's the only man who's overcame the disability of being Italian American to produce great writing.
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Mar 11, 2020 06:20
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zero books is trash
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Mar 11, 2020 06:21
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Here's Cutrone's essay referenced in the video. https://chriscutrone.platypus1917.org/?p=2848 Spoiler: It reads like satire of fatalist accelerationism where the accelerationist declares themselves forced to make a hard turn to the right and call it the new left because anything else would be in denial of the *material conditions*. Now I'm afraid to hear any more of this person in case he's gonna burst my denial-bubble where he's a satirist.
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Mar 11, 2020 06:58
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Cutrone is kind of infamous for being a troll and a provocateur, but he's relatively well behaved in that interview.Impermanent posted:zero books is trash It's gotten pretty bad with them recently, not gonna lie.
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Mar 11, 2020 07:16
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apropos to nothing posted:most of what is to be done focuses on the question of building a revolutionary socialist party. there's more contemporary and shorter essays and pamphlets that help summarize the ideas and give historical examples. inspiring the thought of building an international workers party seems like a crushingly huge task
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Mar 11, 2020 08:08
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Hodgepodge posted:inspiring its a huge task but its what we have to do. hearing the perspectives of comrades in other countries with much harder and much more difficult conditions only makes you realize that as hard as it is to organize in the US, we're pampered and have it easy. the excuses of how hard it is to organize here fall flat when our comrades in nigeria werent even allowed ballot access and had members arrested, or comrades in china, hong kong, and taiwan who have to hide their identities because of state repression against socialists there. weve a world to win and nothing to lose but our chains.
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Mar 11, 2020 16:03
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I find maoists to have the most coherent conception of international organization tbh. For instance, that a party is fundamentally a national structure, and internationalism is not treating the global as if same rules applied as within the national sphere, but producing a different kind of organization between national parties. Like, for some reason I can't quite grasp, globalized parties, unions etc. just haven't been able to get off the ground as actual global organizations even though many have had aspirations. But for some reason, some types of global mass organization have been much more of a thing. Maybe it has something to do with discipline, like it's easy to be part of a global org when you just need to rock the name and subscribe to some vague points of unity, but not so when people actually need to take orders that they don't necessarily like.
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Mar 11, 2020 18:04
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people are saying dont read lenin first, but this is short, easy to understand and true: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1913/mar/x01.htm three component parts of marxism. good stuff
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Mar 11, 2020 22:22
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uncop posted:I find maoists to have the most coherent conception of international organization tbh. For instance, that a party is fundamentally a national structure, and internationalism is not treating the global as if same rules applied as within the national sphere, but producing a different kind of organization between national parties. Like, for some reason I can't quite grasp, globalized parties, unions etc. just haven't been able to get off the ground as actual global organizations even though many have had aspirations. But for some reason, some types of global mass organization have been much more of a thing. Maybe it has something to do with discipline, like it's easy to be part of a global org when you just need to rock the name and subscribe to some vague points of unity, but not so when people actually need to take orders that they don't necessarily like. The comintern, as flawed as it was, was probably the closest we have ever gotten to such an organization
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Mar 11, 2020 23:13
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is there a break down of the various socialist political parties in america vis a vis which branch of marxism they follow and which are 100% cops instead of merely 80%
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Mar 12, 2020 00:17
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if all the cops are in marxist groups, all the marxists must be in a pigsty
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Mar 12, 2020 00:26
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*nodding and smiling like what you said makes sense and is funny*
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Mar 12, 2020 01:47
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https://jacobinmag.com/2020/03/bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-results-joe-biden This article sucks loving rear end, imo. The plan is just... Keep trying to get elected, surely the democratic party won't keep stopping us! We don't loving have time to wait 4 more years every time we get hosed by the pmc. We didn't even have the last decade. Things have to change asap if we plan on stabilizing the planet. Actually that's not true. The planet will likely be fine. Humans won't
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Mar 12, 2020 05:29
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T-man posted:if all the cops are in marxist groups, all the marxists must be in a pigsty think of it as a conductors baton
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Mar 12, 2020 05:37
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Homeless Friend posted:think of it as a conductors baton ??? SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:https://jacobinmag.com/2020/03/bernie-sanders-democratic-primary-results-joe-biden My personal thought is that humans are pretty good at not dying, a few thousand of us will probably survive even in the +8C helltimeline. It's not an existential threat to us as a species. Happy ending!  (ignore the billions of dead)
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Mar 12, 2020 06:33
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https://twitter.com/viniciusbivar/status/1238115005956046848?s=21
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Mar 12, 2020 16:21
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plot twist is that it really was a Chinese bio weapon, and now China has saved the world
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Mar 12, 2020 17:56
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Lightning Knight posted:plot twist is that it really was a Chinese bio weapon, and now China has saved the world Ngl, I didn't think they'd do something like this Thank you President Xi, I'm sorry about the pooh memes
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Mar 12, 2020 18:09
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Lightning Knight posted:plot twist is that it really was a Chinese bio weapon, and now China has saved the world Thanks, China. Thina.
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Mar 12, 2020 18:12
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T-man posted:breadtube is all you need, anything beyond that is an unhealthy BDSM lifestyle expressed through forcing oneself to read terribly written books to make your brain suffer. Which, y'know, if that's your kink, just don't gatekeep over it. Sephiroth's got nothing on this next one, where I send the entire Oort Cloud careening into both Northwestern University and one of the houses of the person who decided that it was a good idea to volunteer to mod Natalie's Discord and then on myself, because obviously, look at all of that poo poo I just wrote, just gently caress
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Mar 12, 2020 18:28
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apropos to nothing posted:most of what is to be done focuses on the question of building a revolutionary socialist party. there's more contemporary and shorter essays and pamphlets that help summarize the ideas and give historical examples. This was helpful. Heavy on the Trotsky hagiography and war metaphors but useful.
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Mar 12, 2020 22:03
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Victory Position posted:Sephiroth's got nothing on this next one, where I send the entire Oort Cloud careening into both Northwestern University and one of the houses of the person who decided that it was a good idea to volunteer to mod Natalie's Discord why does it feel like i'm having a stroke reading this
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Mar 12, 2020 22:34
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T-man posted:why does it feel like i'm having a stroke reading this not everybody needs to know what turns you on, pal
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Mar 12, 2020 23:55
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apropos to nothing posted:most of what is to be done focuses on the question of building a revolutionary socialist party. there's more contemporary and shorter essays and pamphlets that help summarize the ideas and give historical examples. quote:Every member must have the right to oppose an idea or course of action during discussions inside the party, but once a decision by majority vote is made, that member should act according to the decision outside the party. This does not take away their right to continue to argue their point of view in party meetings and to seek to change a decision, organising a tendency or faction with others of similar view if felt necessary this is true and most important, yet the article offers no answers as to how this state of free debate is to be secured. it's not like i have any solutions to offer, but it seems that the aim of centralism, a central auktoritas that all lower levels of party hierarchy ought to submit to, appears in contradiction to dialectic discussion, and without resolution. and thus, stalin resolves the contradiction in violence.
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Mar 13, 2020 00:18
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https://twitter.com/anarkidd0/status/1238417738273415168 wasn't Chomsky's point here is that people shouldn't have been taking casualty figures at face value, given that the source was State Department people with a vested interest in making the Cambodian regime look as bad as possible? the fact that Pol Pot actually did kill all those people seems to be besides the point when you're writing a book about how the media can be shaped to provide a convenient narrative
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Mar 13, 2020 12:00
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It’s not a good look
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Mar 14, 2020 04:36
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If only there was an infinitely more successful revolutionary in South East Asia we could stan instead of pol pot...
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Mar 14, 2020 06:32
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folks,
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Mar 14, 2020 06:39
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/anarkidd0/status/1238417738273415168 there are valid criticisms of chomsky but this isn't one. chomsky's main point anyways was about the difference in how the media covered atrocities of enemies much differently than the atrocity of allies and themselves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8VWUV1S9yk also usually ignored context in these discussion is the probable and confirmed ways the US supported the khmer rouge. also ignored is the atrocities of the US in southeast asia that led to the creation of the khmer rouge. comedyblissoption fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Mar 14, 2020 |
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Mar 14, 2020 07:25
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Kurnugia posted:from the party.html, article It should be secured by necessity. Like, there are few enough people that want to work for the party that they need to be held onto regardless of how liked they are as long as they seem to be doing considerably more good than bad. Basically, Trotsky. The separation between public and private is important: public critique against the decided-on measures may hurt the practical application of the measures in unpredictable ways, but private critique should not as long as everyone is disciplined and keeps working together even as their opinions on the measures change. Things get more complex once you drop the assumption of hard discipline and accept that no, in fact even within the party not everyone is equally disciplined and putting yourself above your peers or leaders by throwing out offhand critiques of them in front of less disciplined cadres can hurt the collective efforts as well. So any presentation of factions as unproblematic is wrong: they are a sign of trouble. Of course, trouble needs to be confronted rather than swept under the mattress or it's just going to get worse. A persisting faction is a sign that one side cannot be satisfied without hurting the whole, either a legitimate issue is being persistently ignored by the leadership or the faction is obsessed with some detail that can't be satisfied without unjustified sacrifice. Suppressing a faction is the first case is bad (while the faction taking over the reins would be good), but in the second case it's good. The core dialectic isn't in the discussion -- we aren't Greek philosophers here -- but in the relation between the discussion and the collective action. They stand in contradiction: discussion can hinder getting things done in lots of ways, focusing on getting things done can hinder discussion in lots of ways. Yet if one side is allowed to be extinguished by the other, both are lost, since discussion is needed to provide direction to action and action is needed to provide the point and basis for discussion. Naturally, all that means that the right to debate things after the initial decision will not be easily secured in orgs that are not actually genuine or are very confused and do prioritize the short-sighted feelings of the leaders above practical effectiveness, and orgs that have supporters lining up to join and work for them uncritically. And it's easy to hide unprincipled suppression behind reasons that sound really valid and important.
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Mar 14, 2020 08:13
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every academic lives in a society, ergo every academic has some lovely hosed up opinions and takes literally everyone is cancelled for, like, at least something in their IAT tendencies. If you didn't you'd have to have been raised in a literal tank raised by a robot. (which sadly I have yet to source funding nor an infant to confirm) e: uncop posted:It should be secured by necessity. Like, there are few enough people that want to work for the party that they need to be held onto regardless of how liked they are as long as they seem to be doing considerably more good than bad. Basically, Trotsky. The separation between public and private is important: public critique against the decided-on measures may hurt the practical application of the measures in unpredictable ways, but private critique should not as long as everyone is disciplined and keeps working together even as their opinions on the measures change. how do you feel about struggle sessions because I'm getting the feeling that you're gonna start screaming about unpure antiparty tendencies and beating people until they agree T-man fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Mar 14, 2020 |
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Mar 14, 2020 08:29
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Cutrone is kind of infamous for being a troll and a provocateur, but he's relatively well behaved in that interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZgCmQBEv9E
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Mar 14, 2020 08:36
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T-man posted:how do you feel about struggle sessions because I'm getting the feeling that you're gonna start screaming about unpure antiparty tendencies and beating people until they agree Depends on what we're talking about in concrete terms. The struggle sessions of maoist cults like the Japanese one that killed lots of its members through them are hilariously bad, flagellation-esque purifying rituals. Generally speaking, if that's the kind of communication you need to resort to, your org is seriously hosed up. But more importantly, the idea that they're for the improvement of the target is just an ideological story, they're for bonding together the accusers at the expense of traumatizing the target regardless of whether there's any physical contact involved. The threat of social exclusion is enough. In a 20th century Chinese context, people reacted to this kind of humiliation-trauma by falling in line more often than people here and now would, so it was less immediately destructive and did damage in more complex ways that were probably useful in the same way that military-drill humiliation is for all armies. There may be some special cases where they can have a positive purpose in the sense of producing enthusiasm for some self-sacrificing decision through participation in the theater against its opponents that would have to leave anyway, but it definitely wouldn't be a good sign to have many of those kinds of decisions in the first place. But beginning engagement in a revolution is definitely one of them, it's the "oh poo poo, it's a 50-50 chance I get killed if I agree" moment. Struggle sessions organized to help people stop fearing and unduly respecting their old social superiors are good by default, like helping peasants organize public humiliations of their old landlord. They empower people while probably reducing killing and torture because that's often done out of pent-up rage over unanswered injustices or even instinctive fear that people try to keep in check through violence against those who represent their fear. Struggle sessions organized for people to confront public officials probably make no sense in our social context, but coming from a tributary society it's probably hard to get people to dare to make demands of their officials. Theatrical public critique sessions of party members seem like they can have a positive purpose, although they obviously signal that something's wrong with the relationship between those people and the masses.
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Mar 14, 2020 09:27
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Our government's response to this pandemic has placed our lives at stake. Our government's response to handling the economy has placed our livelihoods at risk. Therefore, the government as it currently stands is illegitimate.
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Mar 17, 2020 07:06
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https://twitter.com/unormal/status/1239103140412227584
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Mar 17, 2020 07:59
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