|
Colostomy Bag posted:Ok honey, just wrote a check for a couple hundred K. Wanna walk down a few feet for lunch at Buffalo Wild Wings to celebrate? ugh can't we drive over there and park closer?
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2020 14:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 03:37 |
|
|
Colostomy Bag posted:Ok honey, just wrote a check for a couple hundred K. Wanna walk down a few feet for lunch at Buffalo Wild Wings RAAAAAAARGH to celebrate? FTFY
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2020 18:29
|
|
|
Powershift posted:
Holy poo poo I love it. Genuinely surprised that isn't an Oregon plate. Not that it's out of place in Washington, but it just screams Oregon to me. Needs more moss growing on it to be an Oregon franken-van-car-truck, though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2020 20:01
|
|
|
If it was in Oregon it would have scavenged firewood strapped to the roof and the owner would be digging through garbage cans at rest stops for soda cans to return to recover the deposit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 03:23
|
|
|
Welcome to the future of auto repair https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPYy_g8NzmI
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 15:07
|
|
|
Applebees Appetizer posted:Welcome to the future of auto repair This is why Right to Repair is critical. gently caress John Deere, and they were feeling the pain this year. Apple lobbies against it too. Diesel Dorks got sued for rolling coal. And they deserve it. https://jalopnik.com/discoverys-diesel-dorks-ordered-to-pay-850-000-fine-fo-1842250802 CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Mar 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 15:13
|
|
|
wow there are some stupid loving takes in the comments on that video
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 15:23
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:wow there are some stupid loving takes in the comments on that video The guy bitching about DPFs is a dumbass.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 16:15
|
|
|
Powershift posted:
Aren’t those extremely rare?
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 17:05
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:The guy bitching about DPFs is a dumbass. ha, that's exactly who i was referring to also "if the machine is too complicated to be used and repaired by its owner it is too complicated and should not exist" yeah ok man tell that to the farmers who have 30% higher yields due to precision farming
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 18:32
|
|
|
Yeah that's stupid, all the farmers need is the software to read codes and fix their poo poo without getting bent over. I had no clue John Deere was pulling this poo poo what a bunch of scumbags.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 19:10
|
|
|
Applebees Appetizer posted:Yeah that's stupid, all the farmers need is the software to read codes and fix their poo poo without getting bent over. It's not just pulling codes. It's replacing parts that need to be "paired", and replacing ECMs that come blank that need software loaded on them and configured. This is not a new problem. My skid steer is from the mid 2000s. The right side joystick went bad. I got a new one. It cost $300 to get Bobcat to plug their laptop in and "pair" the new joystick that I had already installed. Yes, I had to bring it to them. No, I didn't even bother taking it off the trailer nor was it necessary. Does it make sense for the joystick to require pairing in a technical sense? Maybe - I assume it's on a canbus or something similar, and perhaps there is no good way to identify it to the ECU without saying "use the device with ID number <blah>" as the right side stick". That could be technically reasonable, or it could be complete bullshit. If one could buy the interface cable and software for a reasonable price it wouldn't matter. But very often you can't buy either at ANY price as availability is limited to authorized dealership service shops only.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 19:35
|
|
|
Motronic posted:
No it absolutely does not You can go and replace entire engine control units plug and play in the 7th can bus hell that is a modern vehicle and the only ones that require any software mods are the ones that use ECU codes for immobilizer purposes. Indeed the immobilizer is the only thing at all that makes sense to have access restricted to a dealer network. There once was a time when you had to calibrate analog sensors (cheap XY joysticks for example) but that's generally done at the factory now if you have hardware that is doing digital communication. Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 11, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 20:02
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:ha, that's exactly who i was referring to I guess this person is posting comments on the internet via their home made semaphore, or they're in the incredible minority of people who can manufacture and repair their own electronics.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 20:19
|
|
|
Motronic posted:It's not just pulling codes. It's replacing parts that need to be "paired", and replacing ECMs that come blank that need software loaded on them and configured. I totally get that it's more involved and goes further down the rabbit hole, but for the most basic process of reading loving codes to be denied is bullshit. We can buy blue tooth code readers on Amazon for 15 bucks why can't the farmers do that? They should be able to read codes on their drat phones while they are plowing a field, it can be done, but John Deere and others decided to take advantage of the situation instead of building a trusting relationship with their customers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 20:52
|
|
|
Applebees Appetizer posted:Welcome to the future of auto repair The article that goes along with it: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xykkkd/why-american-farmers-are-hacking-their-tractors-with-ukrainian-firmware And yeah, gently caress John Deere for that bullshit. The US Army is actually having the same problem, BTW. Oshkosh won't let them fix their trucks. https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/even-the-american-military-is-struggling-with-right-to-1841531517 CommieGIR posted:Diesel Dorks got sued for rolling coal. And they deserve it. Good. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:ha, that's exactly who i was referring to OK, smart rear end - fix your TV. Or MIG welder. OR, for the vast majority of people, your car/truck. Applebees Appetizer posted:I totally get that it's more involved and goes further down the rabbit hole, but for the most basic process of reading loving codes to be denied is bullshit. Because there are LAWS that force auto manufacturers to adhere to a standard for such things, and none such for tractors or really anything else.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 21:28
|
|
|
Your daily reminder that if an unethical practice isn't explicitly illegal, it will be used.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 22:35
|
|
|
Motronic posted:
Every time I learn something new about you, I wonder if you're three people sharing an account.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 23:09
|
|
|
Dave Inc. posted:Your daily reminder that if an unethical practice isn't explicitly illegal, it will be used. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 23:14
|
|
|
John Deere is making it near to impossible for farmers to maintain their equipment, which is lovely as hell, and most farmers cannot afford to trailer their equiment to their dealer which is likely 50+ miles away.Darchangel posted:The US Army is actually having the same problem, BTW. Oshkosh won't let them fix their trucks. More than that: Their not even being allowed to fix their own field computer systems anymore, many requiring them to ship them back to the US to get repaired.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2020 23:47
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:More than that: Their not even being allowed to fix their own field computer systems anymore, many requiring them to ship them back to the US to get repaired. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 00:09
|
|
|
john deere should be compelled by law to allow access to diag codes and other basic electronic stuff. i think one of the issues is that these guys do want to have their cake and eat it too. nobody's preventing you from running a 20 year old 200hp row crop tractor. the problem is that everyone wants the output of precision ag with 20 year old technology and that just can't really happen. even if they get access to software it's still going to be a lot harder to fix stuff with tier 4 and the amount of precision ag hardware on the machine. i mean you look at the videos and this poo poo is expensive and high value. it's not just a tractor anymore. looking at the vice video there's an S, which is like $460+k, there's a 8235R that is like $280k. plus probably 30% of the guys are trying to avoid tier 4 and tune their tractors because gently caress the environment am i right?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 00:21
|
|
|
Darchangel posted:
No prob! CommieGIR posted:Diesel Dorks got sued for rolling coal. And they deserve it. Good. gently caress em. Motronic posted:It's not just pulling codes. It's replacing parts that need to be "paired", and replacing ECMs that come blank that need software loaded on them and configured. Something like a joystick in my opinion shouldn't need that. loving thing should have a handshake with the controller and set it self up. Plug it in, run it through the min/max. It's not even hard to implement, but nope, gently caress the guy trying to fix his poo poo hisself. This is likely done from a liability perspective. If Joe Dingus blows his poo poo up he's likely gonna blame the manufacturer for his mistake. This is also not new at all. Laptops and dealer servicing are the modern equivalent of special sockets, wrenches, and other assorted tools to keep the average individual from digging in places they shouldn't. Software or hardware as a service isn't anything new. The issue comes from integrating one with the other in markets where it's completely unreasonable to do such. Like everything else goin' right now, this is driven by data. Not being able to fix it yourself is a byproduct of the advanced controllers on the machine gathering information and phoning it home. That said, it's all loving bullshit. I'm all for right to repair. If you can't fix it, you don't own it. This applies to a hell of a lot more than just Teslas and John Deeres.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 00:25
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:plus probably 30% of the guys are trying to avoid tier 4 and tune their tractors because gently caress the environment am i right? Even as a tree hugging, pinko-commine lie-beral, if I ever came to own a combine harvester, I'd want it to bellow smoke and sound like a pro level Tractor Pull every time I opened the throttle even a little bit
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 00:36
|
|
|
The Door Frame posted:Even as a tree hugging, pinko-commine lie-beral, if I ever came to own a combine harvester, I'd want it to bellow smoke and sound like a pro level Tractor Pull every time I opened the throttle even a little bit Good luck with the seized piston rings.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 00:40
|
|
|
StormDrain posted:Every time I learn something new about you, I wonder if you're three people sharing an account. It's only two. There's blue collar Montronic which is how I grew up and by luck got introduced to and interested in a couple things that made white collar Motonric, the tech nerd. White collar Motronic lets blue collar Motonics redneck tendencies come true.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 01:14
|
|
|
poo poo stuff like motronic's joystick is common on cars, i have to serialize the tail lights on my E39 which is 20 years old
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 02:07
|
|
|
cursedshitbox posted:... This is likely done from a liability perspective. If Joe Dingus blows his poo poo up he's likely gonna blame the manufacturer for his mistake. ... I don’t know how much the liability aspect is balanced with trying to make more money, but it’s something they are very concerned about.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 02:43
|
|
|
david_a posted:I can tell you this is one of the reasons Deere is so locked down. When your quarter-million dollar tractor is autonomously driving with a 120 foot planter and it clips a tree or runs into something and damages people and/or property, the legal mess that would come from a user-serviced or replaced part in the mix would not be pretty. Perhaps some laws for who is to blame in a self-driving car accident would clarify the situation, but it might just mean that everyone follows Deere’s lead and only lets the self-driving functions work in the most absolutely locked-down environments with paper trails for every component. I might believe this narrative if I could just replace the loving joysitck on my skid steer, which has no autonomous functions at all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 02:56
|
|
|
KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:poo poo stuff like motronic's joystick is common on cars, i have to serialize the tail lights on my E39 which is 20 years old There's a computer in your taillight that communicates with your ECU? WHY?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 03:13
|
|
|
Motronic posted:I might believe this narrative if I could just replace the loving joysitck on my skid steer, which has no autonomous functions at all. What I want to know is if they're going to use that kind of architecture, how come there isn't a software library onboard the skid steer that you use to upload the ops and config DB files to the joystick module?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 03:52
|
|
|
Finger Prince posted:What I want to know is if they're going to use that kind of architecture, how come there isn't a software library onboard the skid steer that you use to upload the ops and config DB files to the joystick module? The cruelty is the point.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 04:09
|
|
|
ugh.  edit - not terrible is the thing I was driving. Who can identify?!
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 04:54
|
|
|
xzzy posted:ugh. Some kind of kei van or truck?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 05:05
|
|
|
Wipers say LHD. But I'm at a loss beyond that. Shot in the dark guess is an Isuzu cab-over with an LS.KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:motronic's joystick 
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Mar 12, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 08:05
|
|
|
lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 08:18
|
|
|
KillHour posted:There's a computer in your taillight that communicates with your ECU? WHY? To turn on an LED on the dash to say to refill the blinker fluid. The John Deere situation and many other companies involved shits me. I am a massive supporter of Right to Repair but have also been a service agent for appliances/TVs and all sorts of industrial control units. I see the liability fears as I have seen some complete loving idiots try to fix something and damage stuff more. One kind of solution I see for that is allow the unauthorized repairs but have a flag in diagnostics of what/where/when was changed or fiddled with. Don't limit any functionality at all. Then if Farmer McDickhead does misalign his GPS for his autoplower then insurance etc can say - you dun hosed it up yourself. That was Farmer McGoodfella CAN get that emergency widget part overnighted and keep to the deadline. Then for insurance/liability reasons Goodfella can request a certification of the repairs at a more convenient time. Something like a roadworthy report/pits like here in Australia. Dunno, just stream of thought there, hope it makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 09:28
|
|
|
Humphreys posted:One kind of solution I see for that is allow the unauthorized repairs but have a flag in diagnostics of what/where/when was changed or fiddled with. Don't limit any functionality at all. Then if Farmer McDickhead does misalign his GPS for his autoplower then insurance etc can say - you dun hosed it up yourself. This makes sense. ALTHOUGH the system can gently caress up on the dumbest poo poo: I got given a new iphone at work, I set it up and everything and all is great. One day it decides that the charging cable that I pulled out of the sealed box with the phone isn't legit and doesn't want to charge using it. Everything is great until the computer decides that a 1 is now a 0 but because 'computer says...' it's taken as gospel.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 10:38
|
|
|
xzzy posted:ugh. Terrible car stuff is not paying more for your vehicle registration?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 12:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 03:37 |
|
|
Humphreys posted:The John Deere situation and many other companies involved shits me. I am a massive supporter of Right to Repair but have also been a service agent for appliances/TVs and all sorts of industrial control units. I see the liability fears as I have seen some complete loving idiots try to fix something and damage stuff more. generally agree with this but even if Farmer Mcknobhead fucks with his Deere and breaks it, he's still gonna blame John Deere so there's some brand harm being done there. not that this necessarily outweighs mcknobheads right to get in to some systems, but just making it a total free-for-all doesn't really benefit anyone. KillHour posted:There's a computer in your taillight that communicates with your ECU? WHY? its separate from the ecu (it's the LCM, light control moduel) i think but yeah it has to be correctly coded. why? germans man, fuckin germans. i saw some kid with a late 80s JDM soarer here in ann arbor the other day it was pretty rad
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2020 14:09
|
|