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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


KS posted:

I'm sitting on the sidelines because I refuse to go back to the bad old days of chipset fans. I'd buy an x470 -- it's not PCIE 4.0 that's stopping me, but I really want a USB-C header for a front USB-C port. That doesn't seem to exist, especially in an ITX format. Maybe I'm just misinformed.

Yeah, the biggest thing that's kept me from moving in and building a new computer is motherboard selection. I want to go ITX, but none of the motherboards seem that compelling or are reviewed well.

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orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe

Nomyth posted:

Was the arrangement to use the old GloFo process for the chipset just temporary? I have to believe the x670 or whatever won't consume as much power
The next mainstream chipsets are supposed to use ASMedia's own designs again, no info on X670 but IIRC the point of X570 was harvesting Zen 2 IO dies so I guess it will depend on the details of Zen 3 (design/process of the IO dies and their yields). A purpose-built chipset in 12 or 14nm should be more efficient, but if they keep the IO dies on an old process for cost reasons, and reuse them again for the next chipset, they're probably not going to consume much less power.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

Paul MaudDib posted:

x264 doesn't make huge use of AVX-512 as I recall but if they can run the 512-bit units as 2x256b units like Skylake-X can, then that would probably be another 30%-ish real-world boost. The numbers will be higher for x265 since that does use AVX-512 heavily, I'd even believe more than 50% speedup on that.

Another possibility is that AMD does a half-step and implements AVX-512 on top of 256-bit units, since AVX-512 added a bunch of useful new instructions on top of AVX2 in addition to doubling the width.

Malcolm XML
Aug 8, 2009

I always knew it would end like this.

repiv posted:

Another possibility is that AMD does a half-step and implements AVX-512 on top of 256-bit units, since AVX-512 added a bunch of useful new instructions on top of AVX2 in addition to doubling the width.

this seems likely. lacking AVX-512 is a pretty advantage if you need it. HPC, even general purpose code can use it with some effort

straight 2x gain if the unit is 512 bits. I expect them to have it for all the HPC clusters they announced

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week
I doubt the process is why the chipset consumes so much power -- Intel went back to 22nm for chipsets for a while there, and were still able to passively cool the things.

I suspect the power issue is:

orcane posted:

IIRC the point of X570 was harvesting Zen 2 IO dies
they didn't have enough engineering time to make the x570 chip power efficient. It was a fast and dirty remake of the IO die into a chipset because AMD had PCIe 4 ready and asmedia didn't. The rush to be first on the market with PCIe 4 was a marketing thing, AMD was beating Intel so they wanted to keep getting in wins. People who bought x570 because PCIe 4 fell for it.


(Also x570 chips aren't literal harvested Zen 2 IO dies. Not sure if that's what you actually meant, or just that they took a bunch of the IO die's layout and copied it. X570 is on 14nm and the zen2 IO chip is 12nm.)

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

Klyith posted:

(Also x570 chips aren't literal harvested Zen 2 IO dies. Not sure if that's what you actually meant, or just that they took a bunch of the IO die's layout and copied it. X570 is on 14nm and the zen2 IO chip is 12nm.)

I think that slide was confirmed wrong at this point, they're both 12nm.

Possibly a brain fart from the engineer doing the slide since 12 is really a 14+ anyway. It's a 14nm class node, as opposed to a 7nm class node or whatever.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

x570 basically functions as a PCIe switch. All of the PCIe 4.0 switches capable of lots of throughput ive seen are actively cooled and pretty dang big, like the one from Microsemi thats used in some server backplanes and stuff. Moving all that data around is apparently pretty intensive.

peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

        PEEP THIS...
           BITCH!

Paul MaudDib posted:

Zen1/Zen+ run 256-bit operations on 128-bit units taking two cycles. Zen2 has 256-bit units and runs 256-bit operations in one cycle.
Ah, right, thanks for clarifying. I had some nagging feeling as I was writing that, but couldn't remember the details.

I guess the other big tweakable parameter would be # of AVX execution units per core, since its not necessarily 1:1.
Seems hard to find much details on those sort of specs though even for existing CPUs though.

90s Solo Cup
Feb 22, 2011

To understand the cup
He must become the cup



sincx posted:

Wow Microcenter has the 3900X for $400.

Wait for Zen 3 or upgrade now? Tough call. If the B550 was available, it would be an easier decision.

Still couldn't justify the extra $100 for four extra cores, so I went with the 3800X. Besides, it feels like an absolute beast compared to the 2700X.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


I remember old Intel 775 mobos having massive heatsink assemblies with heatpipes connecting the VRM to the northbridge to the southbridge. I know the 90nm integrated graphics northbridges back then were 25-30W and they were almost all passively cooled.

So idk what AMD is thinking

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

FuturePastNow posted:

I remember old Intel 775 mobos having massive heatsink assemblies with heatpipes connecting the VRM to the northbridge to the southbridge. I know the 90nm integrated graphics northbridges back then were 25-30W and they were almost all passively cooled.

So idk what AMD is thinking

1. a fan is cheaper than a heatpipe

2. they might have needed to make major changes the PCB layout from previous x470 boards to make room for a heatpipe to snake around and go somewhere useful, which would have been expensive


Seriously the mod to fix this on your own mobo if you have a fan that stays on all the time is the easiest mod in the world. A $5 heatsink and some thermal tape is all you need.

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING

Mobile Navi is coming, and the rumormill says it's looking good: https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-ryzen-7-4800hradeon-rx-5500m-laptop-30-faster-than-intel-i9-9980hknvidia-gtx-1650-3dmark/

I'm pretty stoked about this wave of Ryzen 4000 APU + dGPU laptops in general, whether they be Radeon or Nvidia.

EmpyreanFlux
Mar 1, 2013

The AUDACITY! The IMPUDENCE! The unabated NERVE!
Zen3 is starting to show up in the Linux kernel. When previous Zen iterations came to market the release followed about six months later. So an August-October release is looking like a strong bet. That and recent deals and drops in price for Zen2 seems like a setup for an imminent release as well. I could see the entire 4000 series dropping at once, 6 months is pretty good space to dedicate Renoir chips to mobile exclusively while they build stock of all the leaky functional ones.

So uh, rip Comet Lake, caught between Zen3 release and crazy good Zen2 and AF series processor prices.

Actually, I wonder how the APU stack is going to look like, like will there be a 4700G or will AMD reserve all functional 8C Renoir's for mobile and we only get a 4600G? 229$ for 8C/16T 8CU, 159$ for 6C/12T 8CU, 99$ for 4C/8T 6CU? Maybe Athlon 4000G 4C/4T 4CU for 59$?

Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013

Oh Boy Desert Map
I've been meaning ask ever since it was discovered that AMD's "7nm+" wasn't actually TSMC's 7+ EUV process - is AMD even going to be able to get something done on partial EUV? Is it even a good idea to do so (since processes optimized for low power aren't ideal for high perf chips)?

K8.0
Feb 26, 2004

Her Majesty's 56th Regiment of Foot
That is most likely AMD's reason for sticking with 7nm. My immediate assumption on hearing that news was that AMD is likely betting that with process evolution and updated design it will give them higher performance than the first-gen 7nm+ EUV process.

Availability is also probably a large concern. The mobile market will really want 7nm+ for the lower power consumption, so if the two are more or less equal in total performance, it makes sense for AMD to stick with 7nm and benefit from increased volume while Intel is at a weak point.

god this blows
Mar 13, 2003

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15615/amd-kicks-off-3rd-generation-desktop-ryzen-promotions-up-to-50-off

The prices don’t look any different than we’ve already seen.

sincx
Jul 13, 2012

furiously masturbating to anime titties
.

sincx fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Mar 23, 2021

mdxi
Mar 13, 2006

to JERK OFF is to be close to GOD... only with SPURTING

sincx posted:

Does this mean Microcenter prices will drop even more?

code:
                Old SEP  New SEP  Discount  Amazon.com   Microcenter  
Ryzen 9 3900X	   $499     $449       $50        $419          $399
Ryzen 7 3800X	   $399     $359       $40        $340          $299
Ryzen 7 3700X	   $329     $304       $25        $290          $279
Ryzen 5 3600X	   $249     $224       $25        $200          $179
Ryzen 5 3600	   $199     $174       $25        $175          $159
(source)

god this blows
Mar 13, 2003

mdxi posted:

code:
                Old SEP  New SEP  Discount  Amazon.com   Microcenter  
Ryzen 9 3900X	   $499     $449       $50        $419          $399
Ryzen 7 3800X	   $399     $359       $40        $340          $299
Ryzen 7 3700X	   $329     $304       $25        $290          $279
Ryzen 5 3600X	   $249     $224       $25        $200          $179
Ryzen 5 3600	   $199     $174       $25        $175          $159
(source)

They’ve been this price all week.

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH
Only a $20 gap between the 3800x and 3700x at microcenter tilts the balance toward the 3800x but everywhere not so much...

Xaintrailles
Aug 14, 2015

:hellyeah::histdowns:
I just got a 3600 and anything you've heard about the stock fan being annoying is an understatement. I was going to give it a few months but it's not going to last a week.
It was really easy to fit at least.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Seamonster posted:

Only a $20 gap between the 3800x and 3700x at microcenter tilts the balance toward the 3800x but everywhere not so much...

In all the benchmarks I've seen it gets like 1-4% higher scores in synthetics and no higher in real life workloads, all while sucking a bunch more juice. Even a $20 jump isn't worth it.

orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe
Yeah at same $ it would be a "why not" deal (you can set both CPUs to run identically to each other so the only advantage the 3800X would have is very slightly better binning) but whatever the 3800X is more expensive is better spent on a coffee or on a different part of the computer.

peepsalot
Apr 24, 2007

        PEEP THIS...
           BITCH!

Hey so I know 2700X can be kinda a power hog, and Zen 2 improved efficiency significantly over Zen+.

I'm considering upgrading mine, just curious where the 2700X fits in terms of MAX power draw(thermal load) compared to the 3000 series. (don't quote me marketing TDP BS)
Like I assume its more power than 3700X/3800X at same core count.
Is it still more power than 3900X with 50% more cores? 3950X?

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002

by Fluffdaddy

Xaintrailles posted:

I just got a 3600 and anything you've heard about the stock fan being annoying is an understatement. I was going to give it a few months but it's not going to last a week.
It was really easy to fit at least.

Thats a little odd. I got a 3800x and it was running REAL hot. Ended up manually setting voltages and that made temps go WAY down. Maxing out with normal loads around 70C.

Drakhoran
Oct 21, 2012

peepsalot posted:

Is it still more power than 3900X with 50% more cores? 3950X?

No:

[img[[/img]

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Newegg has what look like some decent combo deals on Gigabyte motherboards and AMD processors... I wasn't planning to build something new right now but it is very tempting.

GruntyThrst
Oct 9, 2007

*clang*

Got all my hardware up and running so doing the detail work now. Should I be using the AMD Ryzen windows power plan thing I keep reading about? It's from 2017 AFAICT so maybe it's unnecessary now?

orcane
Jun 13, 2012

Fun Shoe

GruntyThrst posted:

Got all my hardware up and running so doing the detail work now. Should I be using the AMD Ryzen windows power plan thing I keep reading about? It's from 2017 AFAICT so maybe it's unnecessary now?
They updated the power plan for Ryzen 3000 again. It still gives you a miniscule performance boost by having the cores be more "alert" - the CPU puts cores into deep sleep modes when idle, then wakes them up rather aggressively under any sort of load, which can lead to annoying noise from the fans revving up for a few seconds every time eg. Windows tasks take a tiny bit of effort, or some hardware monitoring program polls the CPU (Ryzen 3000-aware programs shouldn't do that, but some old/bad ones still do). On average it also takes a bit more power and your cooling solution/fan curves have to be tweaked if the noise is an issue. To most people that tradeoff isn't going to be worth it and the Windows power plan is completely fine.

uhhhhahhhhohahhh
Oct 9, 2012
There's also the 1usmus Power Plans that seem to work better for some people's setups, and with no real harm to you if it doesn't.

sincx
Jul 13, 2012

furiously masturbating to anime titties
.

sincx fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Mar 23, 2021

Setset
Apr 14, 2012
Grimey Drawer

sincx posted:

I bit the bullet and bought a 3900X along with a Asus Prime Pro X470 board that has a sticker saying it already has a Ryzen-3000 compatible BIOS.

Given I don't need PCIe 4.0 and that this particular X470 board seems to have decent VRMs, it seemed worth it to give up PCIe 4 to avoid the fan and save $50+ to boot. I particular like that this board has a Type E header for front panel USB C, which is missing on a bunch of X570 boards.

X470 is fine for 8 core..but 12 core might be pushing its VRMs.

Maybe don't enable PBO just to be safe

Regrettable
Jan 5, 2010



FuturePastNow posted:

Newegg has what look like some decent combo deals on Gigabyte motherboards and AMD processors... I wasn't planning to build something new right now but it is very tempting.

I've been waiting for a sale like this but they didn't include the x570 Aorus Elite in any of the combo deals so I'm not biting. I want that USB C front panel connector and I'm also not willing to take my chances with the Asus TUF considering their RMA in the US is a nightmare and I've had several bad experiences Asus boards.

ufarn
May 30, 2009

Lube banjo posted:

X470 is fine for 8 core..but 12 core might be pushing its VRMs.

Maybe don't enable PBO just to be safe
Prime Pro seems to be OK, although I don't know what the exact cut-off point is. PBO is a mess anyway.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post

ufarn posted:

Prime Pro seems to be OK, although I don't know what the exact cut-off point is. PBO is a mess anyway.

It will be totally fine.

Paul MaudDib
May 3, 2006

TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE
It will absolutely be fine. It’s the same power pulled by a 2700X. People freak the gently caress out about VRMs way too much. You’re not doing LN2 runs or prolonged prime95 runs on it, just make sure there’s some airflow over it and it’ll be fine.

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!
I have an MSI X570 board, is it better to use the MSI driver packs or should I get the ones off the AMD website? The AMD ones look newer.

Malloc Voidstar
May 7, 2007

Fuck the cowboys. Unf. Fuck em hard.
I always use the newest drivers I can get, rather than MSI's drivers (which are often very outdated)

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

Drakhoran posted:

No:

[img[[/img]

Keep in mind that the 2700x has a decent amount of overclocking headroom (which zen 2 lacks). I suspect that if you take full advantage of PBO, it’s push the curve up closer to the 3900x.

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OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

sincx posted:

I bit the bullet and bought a 3900X along with a Asus Prime Pro X470 board that has a sticker saying it already has a Ryzen-3000 compatible BIOS.

Given I don't need PCIe 4.0 and that this particular X470 board seems to have decent VRMs, it seemed worth it to give up PCIe 4 to avoid the fan and save $50+ to boot. I particular like that this board has a Type E header for front panel USB C, which is missing on a bunch of X570 boards.

Just a note on these stickers. It's important to also check the date of manufacturer.

I got a B450 mobo that had Ryzen-2000 compatible sticker, but worked with my 3600 without updating the BIOS first because the board was manufactured a month or so after the necessary BIOS update was released.

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