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Terra-da-loo! posted:I think I'm starting to see some of the complaints about the AI. I've had both Hungary and Korea declare surprise wars in me, and then because I wound up taking cities they hit me with a ton of grievances. Like, I get that it's pretty realistic, but I didn't ask to go to war with you dipshits, and don't think I can be blamed too badly for wanting to neutralize the cities closest to me borders. You know, where the threats were coming from. I don't think that's really an AI problem in the same sense as their stupidity in combat. That's more getting used to the way grievances work. It is still pretty janky though. If you take a bunch of cities you can diffuse the grievances by just giving Korea back one of the cities closest to your borders and most affected by you culturally. Then when it rebels, recapture and return it to them. Do that twice and they'll probably become your allies.
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Mar 11, 2020 21:36
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Terra-da-loo! posted:I think I'm starting to see some of the complaints about the AI. I've had both Hungary and Korea declare surprise wars in me, and then because I wound up taking cities they hit me with a ton of grievances. Like, I get that it's pretty realistic, but I didn't ask to go to war with you dipshits, and don't think I can be blamed too badly for wanting to neutralize the cities closest to me borders. You know, where the threats were coming from. It feels like the game was supposed to have military and civilian targets, and cities weren't meant to be both. It'd make sense that people would get angry if you start molesting cities, when blowing up airfields and military installations would win the war for you.
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Mar 12, 2020 08:40
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Yea, it's a topic that's been hashed over many times in the thread. If the AI comes at you with full intention of murder, players rightfully feel that a small amount of turnabout is fair play. I agree with that, it's a game and players play it as such. The other side of the argument is that IRL two wrongs don't make a right and then edgy comparisons to Palestine start to show up. Personally, I'd be ok with fighting a defensive war with no retaliatory conquests, if there was some diplomatic sanctions after the fact. But there isn't; if a war breaks out and a bajillion combat units die on both sides, but the borders stay the same, then all 3rd parties shrug and act like nothing happened. No war reparations for the defender to recover with, nada. This is Civ, after all. So gently caress them. AI comes at you with a knife, you pull out a bigger knife and take their stuff, end of story.
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Mar 12, 2020 09:30
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Reparations are already in the game as far as they can go: in one side's offer of gold per turn and the cession of cities. Much further consequence for war would be a bad idea: players enjoy taking revenge for wars declared against them, especially unjust ones, and would not enjoy further sanctions for defensive wars they lost (or fought to a near-standstill, but came out slightly worse in).
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Mar 12, 2020 17:43
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I dont have any problem with that except that the AI seems to mostly get away taking cities and city-states and even destroying entire civilizations, while the player is gonna be hated forever for taking just 1 on a defensive war It might just be my impression, though In any case I usually avoid wars and will just defend myself until late game when Im bored and then I start acting like a imperialist bastard and gently caress the consequences
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Mar 12, 2020 17:56
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Elias_Maluco posted:I dont have any problem with that except that the AI seems to mostly get away taking cities and city-states and even destroying entire civilizations, while the player is gonna be hated forever for taking just 1 on a defensive war I have no idea whether that's true, but it may well be. There's no alternative in easy reach though: every penalty the AI actually suffers makes it harder for it achieve its goals. I know for sure you're not saying you need the AI to be less able to achieve its goals. Grievances -- an excuse to retaliate with fewer consequences -- are probably the best idea on paper. Also, fess up: if an AI takes one of your cities, you hate it for the rest of the game. You know you do. I know I do.
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Mar 12, 2020 18:26
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homullus posted:I have no idea whether that's true, but it may well be. There's no alternative in easy reach though: every penalty the AI actually suffers makes it harder for it achieve its goals. I know for sure you're not saying you need the AI to be less able to achieve its goals. Grievances -- an excuse to retaliate with fewer consequences -- are probably the best idea on paper. I wont allow them to do that, but Ill hate them forever just for trying it You are right, though
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Mar 12, 2020 18:41
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I've played exactly one game where I continued playing after losing my capital. And I can assure you, no historical record of a man named Matthias Corvinus existed in that world, and any archeological digs in that region only ever unearthed artifacts belonging to nameless barbarian tribes or the ones who'd pacified said barbarians.
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Mar 12, 2020 18:53
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Really if you get into war with the AI you want to maximise your pillaging, it can fund your entire economy and you don't generate any grievances. Only take a city if it's really worth it, like a great wonder or several great districts (for you to repair as you should have pillaged them to buggery). Also losing your capital is an instant loss, isn't it?
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Mar 12, 2020 21:49
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Marmaduke! posted:Really if you get into war with the AI you want to maximise your pillaging, it can fund your entire economy and you don't generate any grievances. Only take a city if it's really worth it, like a great wonder or several great districts (for you to repair as you should have pillaged them to buggery). Not if you have more cities, IIRC
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Mar 12, 2020 22:02
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There really needs to be a mod that allows for a chance of a wall breach that breaks/negates them when you attack with a siege unit. There's a weird tiered wall tech ladder where if you're slightly behind the next "tier" you have to use a much greater number of units to take down a city. And the AI struggles with cities in general- this would help them, potentially.
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Mar 12, 2020 23:31
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Glass of Milk posted:There really needs to be a mod that allows for a chance of a wall breach that breaks/negates them when you attack with a siege unit. There's a weird tiered wall tech ladder where if you're slightly behind the next "tier" you have to use a much greater number of units to take down a city. And the AI struggles with cities in general- this would help them, potentially. There is a siege tower that does exactly this up until steel walls(Medieval? Been a few games since I’ve used them, but they are stupidly effective until that point), the AI just doesn’t know how to use combat units that 1) can’t attack directly or 2) can’t move then attack. They move every unit every turn, so siege units are basically playing musical chairs for no reason under fog of war instead of hitting cities reliably. It’s unfortunately not just a, if they thought the walls could be broken they would try, thing. The AI just doesn’t use siege units in the game properly.
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Mar 12, 2020 23:36
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It's impressive that they can use any special units at all e.g. Rock Bands, Apostles.
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Mar 13, 2020 00:06
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homullus posted:I have no idea whether that's true, but it may well be. There's no alternative in easy reach though: every penalty the AI actually suffers makes it harder for it achieve its goals. I know for sure you're not saying you need the AI to be less able to achieve its goals. Grievances -- an excuse to retaliate with fewer consequences -- are probably the best idea on paper. I would hate an AI that stole a city from me. I wouldn't give a poo poo if an AI took a city from someone else. I also don't see being a "warmonger" as a negative. That said just play with "always war" and enjoy the game.
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Mar 14, 2020 06:59
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:I would hate an AI that stole a city from me. I wouldn't give a poo poo if an AI took a city from someone else. I also don't see being a "warmonger" as a negative. That said just play with "always war" and enjoy the game. the only city i ever lost in civ 6 was in my first game ever, when tokugawa invited me into a joint war against montezuma, but then turned around and backstabbed me when my prehistoric army was away from my capital i thought it was smart at the time but i've come to realize that this only happened because a number of factors lined up to make it decide to try it based on basically six consecutive dice rolls of "should i path towards this city? yes" followed by the coin flip "i'm close to a city, should i attack it? yes" the narrative and gameplay potential from a modern civ AI if it could see more than one god drat inch in front of its face 
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Mar 14, 2020 07:36
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Oh god, I found out the hard way to not gently caress with Genghis Khan unprepared. I thought I was being smart, spreading my religion with Crusade on it to his cities, but he hard countered with horsemen that were 10 to 20 points stronger than what they should have been due to all the intelligence bonuses he'd gotten on me. Pikemen were barely able to keep him at bay. I only went to war because he started conquering my favorite city-states...
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Mar 14, 2020 19:48
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So, a question that sorta goes along with my last post about taking cities... this time about Loyalty. I'm playing as Geghis and going for a domination victory. What's the best way to keep loyalty high in a city you just took? I have the civic(?) that ups loyalty even more with governors, as well as with garrisoned troops, but still can't seem to keep up with 1) the Canadian cities wanting to rebel and 2) the fact that Eleanor's border have a loyalty push due to great works. I mean, I've even began razing cities just so I don't have to worry about their loyalty, lol. Loyalty has been a but of a pain on my rear end ever since i got the expansions. Never really have issues with it until later in the games. Course, for a domination victory, it's not like I need every city, right? Just capitols? Either way, tips on keeping loyalty up (aside from governors and the garrisoned troops and monuments) would be appreciated Edit: as for my earlier post about grievances being weird and poo poo: your responses were a big help and gave me some more insight re: the grievance system, so thanks. Definitely weird and kinda unbalanced or whatever, but I'll deal with it Terra-da-loo! fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Mar 16, 2020 |
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Mar 16, 2020 12:16
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Terra-da-loo! posted:So, a question that sorta goes along with my last post about taking cities... this time about Loyalty. That's kind of Eleanor's superpower. See if you can get her into a cultural alliance? Negates the effect of her culture. But sure, just burn the cities down if they don't have wonders or things of use and are just a drain to put down rebellions.
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Mar 16, 2020 13:58
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Pretty sure Elanor doesn't accept culture alliances. Or at least I've never gotten one even when she was fine with every other alliance type.
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Mar 16, 2020 14:38
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Lol, yeah. Basically razing all of England. Razing is also not a bad idea due to the fact that my empire is seriously plenty big enough already. Like, in some cities I've just taken, it says it's gonna be 999+ turns for anyrhing? Wtf? And in a lot of other cities it's hundreds of turns to do almost anything, but that seems more normal than the 999+ turns to so much as build a monument. Not sure what that's about--maybe you guys can explain it.
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Mar 16, 2020 15:25
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Elanor is by far the most fun leader in the game. One time I got an achievement for wiping out Scotland entirely by great works pressure despite us being allies. Not cultural ones of course.
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Mar 16, 2020 15:48
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Terra-da-loo! posted:So, a question that sorta goes along with my last post about taking cities... this time about Loyalty. Be sure to buy a monument in cities you capture, there are great generals and admirals that give loyalty, and as others have said it can be good to simply raid and raze tiles instead of taking cities, or take multiple cities at once.
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Mar 16, 2020 15:59
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If you wipe their civilization off the planet there's nothing for them to still be loyal to! Use garrisons / buy monuments / use policy cards / Governors to increase loyalty enough to delay the 5 turn flip to 10 turns in order to conquer the next city.
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Mar 16, 2020 17:26
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The military governor (Victor?) with 1 promotion also adds 4 loyalty to all cities within 9 tiles, which I've found to be useful for domination. Just have to buy enough turns to capture more cities and drop the loyalty pressure
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Mar 16, 2020 17:46
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Terra-da-loo! posted:Lol, yeah. Basically razing all of England. Being occupied, unhappy, and low on loyalty all (I think) penalize production, eventually stalling it out completely. Taking hundreds or infinite turns is not because the city is bad, but because they hate you. Getting the loyalty/occupied situation resolved will make them produce at sane rates again.
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Mar 16, 2020 17:56
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Poil posted:Elanor is by far the most fun leader in the game. One time I got an achievement for wiping out Scotland entirely by great works pressure despite us being allies. Not cultural ones of course. Yeah, Eleanor is a ton of fun to play. Kind of a slog in the early game but once you get great works rolling, you'll just mow over entire continents without firing a shot.
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Mar 16, 2020 19:50
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I can see why they changed England's specials to industrial age stuff because Eleanor-England would be broke as hell. So Kristina inherited the theming bonus stuff. Another tip: they changed Entertainment Districts to provide Loyalty, not Amenities. That tripped me up. The Entertainment District special project boosts loyalty for a while and projects it to nearby cities. That is also very handy. Not a lot of ways to deliberately lower loyalty in enemy cities, but the diplomat governor whose name escapes me, that's one of her talents, and of course later on there's spy missions that let you do that. (It doesn't last very long so make use of it when combining with others). Even though loyalty-lowering is their deal I've not had too much luck with the Mapuche in deliberately flipping cities. Anyone else? Speedball fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Mar 16, 2020 |
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Mar 16, 2020 22:21
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Phosphine posted:Being occupied, unhappy, and low on loyalty all (I think) penalize production, eventually stalling it out completely. Taking hundreds or infinite turns is not because the city is bad, but because they hate you. Getting the loyalty/occupied situation resolved will make them produce at sane rates again. Sounds right. Thanks.
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Mar 19, 2020 19:06
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I played multiplayer for the first time with a bunch of friends today, since they don't have the expansion we made a "base game" match; hoo boy the gameplay feels really different without all the bells and whistles. In a way, it felt good though, not having to worry about governors and climate change and whatnot. One thing I may have missed: game didn't give me a chance to change my policies when I researched a new civic, is that WAD? How do I change my policies? Also, some tips for multiplayer? I was Germany and when we stopped (turn 27/250) I had 2 cities, another settler in production, a relatively huge military (3 warriors, 3 archers, and another warrior on the way) and was about to attack my next door city state, although a bunch of my forces were delayed by a barbarian attack, I'd have spent another 3 turns positioning them to attack the citystate. Is that any good? I have no reference on what others were doing since I still hadn't met them  8 player game of which 5 humans, 3 AI.
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Mar 19, 2020 23:49
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Changing your policies works the same in MP as in SP, but the notification that prompts you to do it is removed. You just have to pay attention to the side-icons, and notice whenever you finish a social tech. Or you can pay some gold to change them whenever, of course.
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Mar 19, 2020 23:53
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Or be like me on MP and forgot to change them so you have God King left on till the first change in government forces you to look at the cards.
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Mar 20, 2020 21:45
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Has something changed re. Holy Sites? I can't seem to build them, no matter where I place cities.
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Mar 23, 2020 18:05
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Samovar posted:Has something changed re. Holy Sites? I can't seem to build them, no matter where I place cities. Have you research astrology?
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Mar 23, 2020 19:11
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Tom Tucker posted:Have you research astrology? Yeah, yeah, it just says there are NO suitable sites for buliding it, the option is greyed out (Playing as Norway)
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Mar 23, 2020 19:14
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surrovar posted:Yeah, yeah, it just says there are NO suitable sites for buliding it, the option is greyed out (Playing as Norway) Are you surrounded by woods/rainforest and havent researched mining/bronzeworking? Are there strategics/luxuries on the other tiles?
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Mar 23, 2020 19:18
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Disabled religious victory ? Modded out the Holy Site ?
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Mar 23, 2020 19:26
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mllaneza posted:Modded out the Holy Site ? Sound effect for myself right now.
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Mar 23, 2020 19:40
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Samovar posted:Sound effect for myself right now. Astrology: researched Forests: abundant Holy sites: modded out Mountains: majestic Someone help me with this my religion is dying
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Mar 23, 2020 20:31
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Why would you do that? Holy Sites are useful even if you don't pursue a religion. Those faith points can buy Great People, naturalists, combat units if you have the right government...
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Mar 24, 2020 00:31
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Speedball posted:Why would you do that? Holy Sites are useful even if you don't pursue a religion. Those faith points can buy Great People, naturalists, combat units if you have the right government... I was sick of the constant barrage of holy units from other civilizations; of course, I just downloaded that mod and then got Disco Elysium...
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Mar 24, 2020 07:12
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