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hostess with the Moltres posted:I don’t need something super powerful, just capable of progressing through the game normally. Uh, thread? Ok, so here's some advice that isn't explicitly about power-levelling or beelining to powerful items. -Stock up on ranged ammunition. Then stock up again, twice what you think you need. Make sure every character has a ranged weapon of some sort. First couple of levels, you'll want to hit and run, with your best armoured character either in melee or running in circles. -It's a good idea to follow the main quest's suggestion to head to the friendly arm inn, you'll find some npcs there that will help round out your party. After that, feel free to go exploring or follow the main quest, no pressure. Except for one thing! -Some party members have quests on timers. If you don't do the quest within about 10 days, they leave, taking everything in their inventory. In the case of Xzar+Montaron and Jaheira+Khalid, you just have to visit the town of Nashkel. No need to pursue the quest further. -Feel free to switch party members out if you find a new one who seems interesting. The only restriction is if the npc disapproves of your reputation (evil npc hates positive reputation, good npc hates evil reputation) then they won't rejoin the party later. -At low levels, stick to exploring zones close to the road heading from the Friendly arm south to Nashkel. Zones west on the coast or further east are more dangerous. One exception is the gnoll stronghold which is made for low level parties. -Press tab to highlight containers on the screen. Do this often, there are hidden surprises here and there. -Don't have the "rest until healed" option selected until you have a healer with multiple healing spells. Classic trap for new players, who end up sleeping for a week and then wondering why all their party members are pissed off and leaving. -You can buy the identify spell at High Hedge. -Almost any class is viable. Mages only get good after a couple levels. The game is full of thieves already. Wizard Slayer kit is not recommended for a new player in BG1. Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Mar 12, 2020 |
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Mar 12, 2020 17:22
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BG1 NPCs care about your Reaction score, which is always 10 and modified by your charisma bonus/penalty and reputation bonus/penalty. High rep is always a bonus and low rep is always a penalty. So evil NPCs can refuse to join you because your reputation is... too low. Unless the EE changed this recently. Weird system. BG2 completely does away with Reaction.
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Mar 12, 2020 17:30
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Who went out of their way to do *everything* in Chapter 2, shy of entering the Watcher's Keep early?
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Mar 12, 2020 17:41
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Who went out of their way to do *everything* in Chapter 2, shy of entering the Watcher's Keep early? Is there any other way to play?
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Mar 12, 2020 17:42
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I want to clarify that evil NPCs do care about reputation but only once they're in your party. Before that they're the same as any other NPC.
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Mar 12, 2020 17:43
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Who went out of their way to do *everything* in Chapter 2, shy of entering the Watcher's Keep early? Heck yeah. Usually do the same in BG2 as well. I wanted Coran in my current run-through however, so I did the bare minimum necessary to get fireball/skull trap and then stuck to the main quest. Just found Coran, so now it's time to kill a wyvvern and then go on an extended tour of the sword coast. Also, holy hell Coran has 8 THACO with gear at level 4/4. Guy is a beast.
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Mar 12, 2020 17:46
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Probably some good advice is don't worry about any BG1 character that is a hassle to keep in the party. There are plenty of decent to good NPCs and Imoen, Khalid, and Jaheria are a solid party group that only need a mage and another frontline fighter if you just want to beat the game. Bg2 is where they really put effort into the NPCs. Even the most boring ones (Cernd) have enough of a backstory and main quest to make them worth keeping around for a bit.
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Mar 12, 2020 17:55
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Who went out of their way to do *everything* in Chapter 2, shy of entering the Watcher's Keep early? If you don’t clear the first two floors of Watcher’s Keep at level 8-9 or some stupid poo poo you are dead to me.
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Mar 12, 2020 19:21
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Captain Oblivious posted:If you don’t clear the first two floors of Watcher’s Keep at level 8-9 or some stupid poo poo you are dead to me. 360Noscoping first two floors and buying everything from the rooftop vendor is a long honored BG 2 tradition therefore, I agree.
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Mar 12, 2020 20:15
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Fruits of the sea posted:-Almost any class is viable. Mages only get good after a couple levels. The game is full of thieves already. Wizard Slayer kit is not recommended for a new player in BG1. Mages are great at level 1 by virtue of Sleep alone. Web and Aganazzar's Scorcher can also solve entire fights at low levels. I'd also add a couple more kits and classes to the list of things not to play. Beastmasters and Shapeshifters are just bad. Monks are terrible in BG1. Playing a single class Thief is pointless because a Fighter/Thief can be played the same way but will be better. There are also only a few Mage kits that are decent in both BG1 & BG2 - Invoker, Conjurer, Diviner and Wild Mage. Illusionists are not terrible, and great as multiclass characters, but miss out on the best damage spells. And playing a Sorcerer as your first character is not really recommended. Also, one piece of advice I'd add: use your consumables. Wands, potions, scrolls and magic molotovs are all extremely powerful in BG1 particularly.
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Mar 12, 2020 22:09
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I would perhaps rephrase and say that mages only get “fun” after a couple levels. Sleep is great, but the mage is out of the fight after 2 encounters. It’s a totally different story once they get more spell slots.
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Mar 12, 2020 22:26
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It's totally fine to play a bog-standard fighter or maybe a berserker kit for your first playthrough so you're not micromanaging your main's stats and gear. You'll have enough to worry about with your companion's classes and spells. Save the spell chucking, kit min/maxing, or thief dual classing for your second run once you've got a handle on the engine.
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Mar 13, 2020 00:07
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Mages are never out of any fight because they are your wand users. BG1 gives out a lot of wands.
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Mar 13, 2020 00:33
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Wizard Styles posted:Illusionists are not terrible, and great as multiclass characters, but miss out on the best damage spells. I agree, sadly. I am very attached to illusionist/thieves, especially gnome ones, as that was my longest lasting character during my pen & paper days. I adore Jan both as a personality and mechanically and, while illusionist and thief have great synergy, I wouldn't want him to be my only "int caster". Fruits of the sea posted:Heck yeah. Usually do the same in BG2 as well. The last time I went through BG1 (as a blade) was before the last official path to the game, so I missed out on the Coran's daughter quest due to a bug. JustJeff88 fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Mar 13, 2020 |
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Mar 13, 2020 01:08
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Fruits of the sea posted:Heck yeah. Usually do the same in BG2 as well. Yeah people go on about how Kivan is such a beast as if Coran isn't there with his 20 dex and 3 pips in longbows
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Mar 13, 2020 01:11
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bike tory posted:Yeah people go on about how Kivan is such a beast as if Coran isn't there with his 20 dex and 3 pips in longbows Coran being gated behind Cloakwood access is what keeps people from remembering that he's ridiculous. One of these days I should use that mod that repositions all of the NPCs in accessible areas from the start of the game so I can run the whole thing with a weirdo party. I never use Tiax or Coran or Yeslick or like ten other NPCs since I usually settle on a party before even doing the Nashkel mines.
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Mar 13, 2020 02:06
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I never took Coran in my parties because of his character portrait
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Mar 13, 2020 03:05
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Coran being gated behind Cloakwood access is what keeps people from remembering that he's ridiculous. Same here. Next time I am going to use that mod and take Quail or some other late-game NPC
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Mar 13, 2020 04:47
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Keith Atherton posted:I never took Coran in my parties because of his character portrait agreed
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Mar 13, 2020 04:48
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Catfishenfuego posted:This is a really dumb post because in chess you don't assign the queen to one player and the pawn to another and expect them to have the same amount of fun and input. You don't in crpgs either duder.
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Mar 13, 2020 05:01
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Does anyone actually try to play that dumb chess game in Durlag’s? I just set traps use a fireball wand to nuke the board.
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Mar 13, 2020 05:02
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My take on mage kits: Good Conjurer: loses Divination, needs someone else to detect invisible enemies but otherwise very strong. Illusionist: loses Necromancy, no Skull Trap or Horrid Wilting which are powerful in the late game. Generally very good for most of the game. Wild Mage: good and fun, loses nothing (except all your gold once in a while). Decent Enchanter: loses Evocation, which in BG2 includes sequencers and contingencies. SCS fixes this by making them into innate abilities so it's a good kit if you have the mod installed. Makes the best use of the saving throw bonus. Diviner: loses Conjuration, no armor or most summoning spells, wasted saving throw bonus since Divination spells bypass saves, still generally workable. Invoker: loses Enchantment, including staple party-friendly crowd control spells like Sleep, Confusion, Emotion, Chaos, as well as Greater Malison. There are alternatives but it's a bit harder to play. Bad Necromancer: loses Illusion, no Mirror Image, Invisibility, Project Image. One of the weaker options. Abjurer: loses Alteration, no Haste/Stoneskin making this a poor option. Transmuter: loses Abjuration, including pretty much all of the protections and dispels. Loses Breach which is probably the #1 useful spell in BG2. Easily the worst.
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Mar 13, 2020 09:05
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Overall, I think the game is easy enough on most difficulties that while class imbalances exist, you can play with and have reasonable fun with every class.
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Mar 13, 2020 14:31
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chaosapiant posted:Overall, I think the game is easy enough on most difficulties that while class imbalances exist, you can play with and have reasonable fun with every class. Definitely - the only class that's a real bummer is wizard slayer, if only because a new player will want to try out all the magical doodads they pick up. Even then, that kit is pretty drat good in BG2
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Mar 13, 2020 14:58
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Fruits of the sea posted:Definitely - the only class that's a real bummer is wizard slayer, if only because a new player will want to try out all the magical doodads they pick up. Even then, that kit is pretty drat good in BG2 They can still drink healing potions right? If so I think very little would change about how I used them versus any other single class fighter in a full party.
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Mar 13, 2020 15:02
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The fact that Abjurers lose out on Stoneskin is bloody stupid. It's tagged as "Alteration", but any spell can "alter" something. Hitting someone with a lightning bolt alters the target from normal goblin to twitching scorched goblin, after all, but if turning someone's skin into stone so that weapons bounce off of it isn't an abjuration, what the gently caress is?
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Mar 13, 2020 15:06
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Skwirl posted:They can still drink healing potions right? If so I think very little would change about how I used them versus any other single class fighter in a full party. The only restriction really is not being able to use bracers, rings or amulets. So they play exactly the same, just minus some perks. The magic resistance makes up for that later on when practically everything can hit regardless of armor class.
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Mar 13, 2020 15:06
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JustJeff88 posted:The fact that Abjurers lose out on Stoneskin is bloody stupid. It's tagged as "Alteration", but any spell can "alter" something. Hitting someone with a lightning bolt alters the target from normal goblin to twitching scorched goblin, after all, but if turning someone's skin into stone so that weapons bounce off of it isn't an abjuration, what the gently caress is? Abjuration is protection through magical force, alteration is changing something physically into something else with magic. I think they changed the name in later versions to transmutation which is a bit more clear. Stoneskin literally turns the targets skin to stone, hence alteration, vs mage armour which erects a magical barrier of force, hence abjuration, vs ghost armour which creates a magical bit of armour out of nothing, hence conjuration.
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Mar 13, 2020 15:44
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Fruits of the sea posted:The only restriction really is not being able to use bracers, rings or amulets. So they play exactly the same, just minus some perks. The magic resistance makes up for that later on when practically everything can hit regardless of armor class. It also means that those items might go to party members who wouldn't normally use them. Not sure about the rest of you, but I tend to give my other five party members hand-me-downs unless the item is class/character specific. Being unable to use a few magic slots could find you buffing your party in ways you wouldn't normally do so. In my brain, at work, that is a neat thing.
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Mar 13, 2020 15:49
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Promethium posted:My take on mage kits: Better than a vanilla Mage: Conjurer: Easily the best in an unmodded game. With SCS and/or some other mods installed you'll feel the lack of Detect Invisibility, even with multiple Mages in the party. Still the best specialist even then because Divination is the school most easily covered by other classes. Wild Mage: Yeah, I'll take an extra spell/level for a 5% miscast chance. Should never be the only Mage in the party, though. Diviner: Diviners don't lose out on the most relevant armor and summoning spells. They still get Shield, Stoneskin, Mordy's Swords and Skeleton Warriors. The big thing they lose are Power Words. Still good, though. Invoker: I've played one through the whole trilogy + SoD once. Invokers are good, but you'll definitely feel the lack of Greater Malison. Chaos is nice, too, but there are alternatives. Losing Sleep is rough early in BG1 but you still have Grease and better Webs. Slightly worse than unkitted: Illusionist: Losing Skull Trap and Horrid Wilting is a pretty big deal, and Illusionists also don't get anything out of the saving throw bonuses. Best left to multiclasses that don't really get much out of level-scaling damage spells anyway. At least playable in BG1, bad in BG2: Enchanter: Makes good use of the saving throw aspect of being a specialist, like you said. Losing Magic Missile, Web and Cloudkill means you probably want to bring a second Mage along but you don't need to; there are enough alternatives. In BG2, losing sequencers is too big of a drawback. Necromancer: No Mirror Image/Blur/Invisibility makes them vulnerable and relegates them to standing in the back, far away from any Bandits or Hobgoblins that could do them harm. But that's doable, especially since the maps in BG1 are so open. Eventually, Stoneskin and Potions of Invisibility help them out. Having no Project Image/Simulacrum in BG2 is a dealbreaker, though. Just bad: Abjurer: Lose too much. Transmuter: Same. I would maybe consider playing one in BG1, but not really. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Mar 13, 2020 |
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Mar 13, 2020 16:56
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chaosapiant posted:It also means that those items might go to party members who wouldn't normally use them. Not sure about the rest of you, but I tend to give my other five party members hand-me-downs unless the item is class/character specific. Being unable to use a few magic slots could find you buffing your party in ways you wouldn't normally do so. In my brain, at work, that is a neat thing. Yeah, this also why a lot of party members become low-key juggernauts halfway through BG2 when they start getting decent equipment. Wild Mage has the best potential since they can (with the right buffs and gear) fart out 10 level 8 spells in a row with almost no cast time. Or cast just exactly the spell protection/dispel that's needed at the time. This can also go terribly wrong of course.
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Mar 13, 2020 17:05
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Wizard slayers can only drink potions of healing and antidotes, every other potion is off limits. Just this drawback alone is a dealbreaker to me. Add in no magical helmets, gauntlets or bracers, amulets, rings, boots, belts and cloaks and all that for what, 1% MR per level? Hard pass.
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Mar 13, 2020 17:36
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Ratios and Tendency posted:You don't in crpgs either duder. If one of the classes was, comparatively speaking, a queen to another class's pawn, you would just stock your party with six queens. Also the BG games are based on dungeons and dragons, a game in which you definitely do the thing we were talking about (you know, try and make it fun for whoever) but also usually in CRPGs you try to balance the classes somewhat because the game is balanced around the power of the characters and if you balance the game's difficulty around queens, pawns are gonna have a hard time, but if you balance it around pawns, queens are gonna be bored. Anyway the original comment about 'not balancing pawns and queens' or whatever was extremely stupid.
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Mar 13, 2020 17:45
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bike tory posted:Abjuration is protection through magical force, alteration is changing something physically into something else with magic. I think they changed the name in later versions to transmutation which is a bit more clear. Stoneskin literally turns the targets skin to stone, hence alteration, vs mage armour which erects a magical barrier of force, hence abjuration, vs ghost armour which creates a magical bit of armour out of nothing, hence conjuration. You make a good argument, but I think that that particular spell should be dual-school as abjuration is about protection. There are plenty of dual-school spells in 2e, it's not even a stretch of logic (inasmuch as logic applies to magic). It's such a vital spell, to me, that barring a protection spell to wizards specialised in protection is just a bad call. I was curious, so I did some research... the spell description in the 2e handbook says nothing about making anything stone, it's just a metaphor. The in-game BG description does says "an outer skin of stone will move up from the ground", which is quite clear. While I stand by my opinion that it should be and have always been dual-school, it was Alteration only in 2e and remained as same in BG, so they are at least consistent. Abjurers got it hard in the shorts in 2e regardless... Alteration is easily the largest spell school (Alter being such a broad term) in 2e and abjurers really suffer there. I played my illusionist in 2e pen & paper alongside an abjurer, and he was barred from so many spells while conjurers give up very little for similar benefit. Our campaigns were heavily focused around spell research, though, which was a huge mitigating factor. In summary, Abjurer is a rough sub-class to play in the IE games.
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Mar 13, 2020 20:34
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I was rerolling and rerolling and then I rolled a berserker with 87 stat points and 18/99 strength, lol.
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Mar 13, 2020 21:29
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Ratios and Tendency posted:You don't in crpgs either duder. JustJeff88 posted:I know, but I was speaking more generally of the tabletop game. The idea that some classes are better than others at certain stages is, to me, bad design and a sort of cop-out for not wanting to make an effort to create balance. So you just can't read or what?
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Mar 13, 2020 22:55
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Having just taken a Wizard Slayer through BG1, SoD, and partway through BG2 on an iron man run, their limitations tend to be more annoyances than crippling flaws. The potions are a bigger loss than the gear, really. The magic resistance is all right, but the real reason to play one is the cumulative spell failure per attack, which, especially if you're using a ranged weapon with multiple attacks per round (darts in particular shine here), can make enemy mages more or less irrelevant early on and much less of a threat through the entire game. Not my favorite class ever but not near as bad as advertised. I still wouldn't play one your first time though.
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Mar 13, 2020 23:20
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Enchanters are awesome in all of BG1 and early BG2 as well. Emotion: Hopelessness and Chaos will pretty much immediately end any fight against large parties until the underdark or so. Also I like Wizard Slayers. They take a WHILE to ramp up, but give one Bala's Axe at the end of BG1, make sure you're not carrying anything else so that's what gets imported, and freaking go to town with stonefire in the other hand. They won't ever be as good in a fight against another warrior, but they'll absolutely neuter clerics and mages.
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Mar 13, 2020 23:34
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Once, my wild mage dropped a cow on a lich. It was glorious and I can never go back.
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Mar 14, 2020 02:01
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docbeard posted:The magic resistance is all right, but the real reason to play one is the cumulative spell failure per attack, which, especially if you're using a ranged weapon with multiple attacks per round (darts in particular shine here), can make enemy mages more or less irrelevant early on and much less of a threat through the entire game. I thought it didn't work with ranged weapons. Hmm.
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Mar 14, 2020 04:06
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