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Lord Ludikrous posted:
Nsf001/smashthestate is burned into my brain forever.
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Mar 9, 2020 15:55
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Nsf001/smashthestate is burned into my brain forever. A variation of that is still in my password rotation sometimes!
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Mar 9, 2020 16:00
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Some of those PS2 version screenshots are very impressive and I actually think the lighting changes are better in some of the examples. The game does lose a bit of the dreary, desaturated athmosphere but on the flipside they got rid of the ugly static light sprites. It's also fun to contrast this port (PC first, then backport to PS2 later) with the later Ion Storm games (simultaneous development on PC/Xbox).
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Mar 9, 2020 16:23
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Lord Ludikrous posted:Had some more time to play Deus Ex PS2 (it doesn’t have The Conspiracy subtitle in Europe for some reason), and I’ve completed the training mission and have entered UNATCO HQ after completing the first mission on Liberty Island. I just received my (NA) copy, but I haven't played it yet. I'm surprised to hear that the EU version isn't 25fps. Can you play the game in other languages besides English? I might have imported the EU version but PS2 games are region locked even if I play them on my huge, trusty old PS3. I did import GTA San Andreas from Europe recently, though, and it works splendidly on my NA PS3 as it's a PS3 port, not the PS2 original. I would also like to add that I too like what they did with the L2 button - very clever.
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Mar 10, 2020 01:05
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Cat Mattress posted:The thing is, he's not wrong that the story of Deus Ex is built on absurd conspiracy theories, that the skills you choose don't really matter, that the AI is very stupid, that Denton doesn't have much personality, etc.. He's just wrong about those making the game bad. Like, I can think of a lot of good reasons why someone might have not liked it around when it came out, and a lot of legitimate critiques of its design, but "it has lootable bodies and implausibly-placed crates?" That's what stands out? Really?
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Mar 10, 2020 04:27
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Deus Ex Future Telling Ability - Master.
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Mar 13, 2020 09:22
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Yea. Nowadays, when a mook shoots at you for five minutes solid and yet his body miraculously only holds 5 rounds left I get a bit salty. Back then I didn't give a hoot, it's just what the game is. fake edit: not even 5 rounds, like TWO. maybe even one. I only played Last of Us for an hour or two, but that really leapt out at me, especially since they keep harping on about how rare ammo is.
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Mar 13, 2020 09:29
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Serephina posted:Yea. Nowadays, when a mook shoots at you for five minutes solid and yet his body miraculously only holds 5 rounds left I get a bit salty. Back then I didn't give a hoot, it's just what the game is. "Nowadays"? As opposed to what, System Shock 2's army of zombies whose shotguns miraculously break the exact second they die.
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Mar 13, 2020 14:17
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The comment being that things where still more rusty back then, nowadays that poo poo won't fly. I forgive DX1 for having corpses with tiny amounts of ammo on them, even if it really makes no sense. Twenty years later, I have higher expectations for new entries into the genre. I played the more recent DX games, and while enemies obviously don't have realistic amounts ammo on them (you'd expect several magazines on a soldier), it wasn't something insulting either, usually a full mag and ammo scarcity was never an issue especially when fighting guys with the same gun type. edit:vvvv Am I writing these posts wrong? Am I being unclear? Serephina fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Mar 13, 2020 |
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Mar 13, 2020 15:00
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What are these games with realistic ammo counts on enemy bodies?
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Mar 13, 2020 15:33
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ArmA against bots, I guess? STALKER, to some degree (not with any of the mod bullshit though). I don't mind so much, I am used to the thing where enemies don't drop reasonable amounts of ammo; but I don't hate other systems/ideas for it either. The thinking seems to be that obviously ammo has to be scarce, what kind of shooter doesn't have ammo management??? But I don't feel these days like having limited ammo really is that big of a deal, I would like to see more games try alternative solutions. Mass Effect 1 had a neat thought with unlimited ammo but not unlimited firing on a heat gauge. Or the STALKER/ArmA route where you get a fair bit of ammo, but the real limiting factor is how much you can carry, it takes up space and weight. And both of those games tend to limit your more powerful munitions, even if you get plentiful bullets.
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Mar 13, 2020 23:12
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Serephina posted:edit:vvvv Am I writing these posts wrong? Am I being unclear? I guess? From what I can tell you mentioned Last Of Us as an example, and that may well be the only example in existence because I can't think of another game that does this. I think its weird to criticize Deus Ex for something every game is guilty of. I'm pretty sure there's also gameplay/balance/A.I. reasons as to why such an implementation would fail at the basic level.
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Mar 14, 2020 00:30
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Serephina posted:Yea. Nowadays, when a mook shoots at you for five minutes solid and yet his body miraculously only holds 5 rounds left I get a bit salty. Back then I didn't give a hoot, it's just what the game is. I think it makes sense that if an enemy has been shooting at you for five minutes, it won't have much ammo left on its body. Assault rifles and machine guns have a rate of fire of at least 600 RPM, according to Wikipedia. That's 10 rounds per second. Taking the AK-47 as a reference, it has magazines of 30 rounds, so a magazine lasts 3 seconds. Let's say swapping a magazine takes another 3 seconds, because that's about how long it takes in a video game and it makes my napkin math simpler. We get 30 rounds per 6 seconds, or an effective rate of fire of 300 RPM. For five minutes, that's 1500 rounds, so 50 magazines. The magazine weighs 819 gram, so for 50 of them, that's nearly 41 kg. How much more ammo do you expect them to carry into battle?
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Mar 14, 2020 11:07
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That doesn't really work as a justification because they will happily keep shooting for another 5 minutes if you let them. They're only out of bullets if you ever loot them (I know it's a gameplay concession but I get why it feels bad).
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Mar 14, 2020 11:22
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If enemies had limited ammo they would just use it all up and rush you in melee, pointlessly. Every single encounter in every game would devolve into this. This isn't an idea that nobody though of, its an idea that everybody thought of and dismissed.
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Mar 14, 2020 14:02
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Yeah, it's one of the countless times that realism winds up not making for a good or fun game. Especially considering how many games use enemy drops as a way of dynamic difficulty adjustment, giving that up in the name of cutting off Penny Arcade esque "why does a rat in a dungeon carry 20 gold pieces? *CinemaSins ding*" is the definition of giving up something precious in exchange for something cheap.
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Mar 14, 2020 14:22
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I think it would be more palatable if the enemies weren't programmed to behave as though they have infinite ammo. Sometimes in games ammo is a rare and precious commodity, and the player is encouraged to take careful, aimed shots, while the enemies think nothing of dumping hundreds of rounds at cover roughly near the player just to keep their head down. This doesn't jive with the setting where ammo is supposed to be rare, and the cavalier attitude towards ammo management doesn't jive with the fact that they were willing to use 98% of it on the player in a single firefight. Cat Mattress posted:I think it makes sense that if an enemy has been shooting at you for five minutes, it won't have much ammo left on its body. To add onto this though, if you want hard numbers and realism as you seem to be going for here, most assault rifles aren't designed for sustained fire like that. AKMs will start to overheat and burn the wood around the handguard after a few mag dumps in full auto. AR15s/M4s will start to overheat badly after just a few magazines in full auto, causing potential damage to the handguard as well, and significant internal parts wear. Both guns (and just about any other rifle) will start to suffer very significant accuracy loss when the barrel heats up like this. The only real exception to this is machine guns, which are designed a) with very heavy barrels, more metal means it takes them longer to heat up, and b) swappable barrels so that you can change out and let the metal cool down before you cause permanent damage to it. Machine guns tend to be quite heavy for this reason, and are not issued to every individual.
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Mar 14, 2020 21:40
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If you want that, go play Arma. Otherwise just accept that combat in an rpg, action or otherwise, is a numbers puzzle game of damage in, player damage out, and resource expenditure/reward.
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Mar 14, 2020 23:50
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Some games have done realistic ammo. X-com series and Jagged Alliance 2 come off the top of my head. I guess it's a matter of how the game's been built up from foundations.
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Mar 15, 2020 04:02
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It's just a dramatic Shroedinger's inventory. The artifact is always in a location you try last, the bomb will blast in 5 minutes after you arrive at the scene even if you wandered around for hours. The enemy had just 10 rounds on him when you got to him. It's not as jarring as, say, classic RPG problem of not being able to use enemy equipment at all, all those plate armors and swords are DNA-imprinted apparently. Even better in some JRPGs where you can still stuff from the enemies that you wouldn't be able to take from their dead bodies. In case of Deus Ex though you expected a simulation. And maybe it was sold this way back in 2000, like it's nowhere as smooth as contemporary shooters like Unreal, Half-Life or Quake 2/3 but instead you get realism. The highest difficulty is even called "Realism". So I can imagine someone back in 2000 could tell you that clunky gameplay isn't justified by realism and crate puzzles. They would miss the story and variety of gameplay and miss the point in general by approaching it as a shooter with RPG elements instead of RPG with gameplay though.
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Mar 15, 2020 08:45
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They said the killswitch would kill me in 24 hours but I've been letting the game run for two days and nothing happened, this is BULLSHIT!
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Mar 15, 2020 14:35
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ilitarist posted:. It was 100 percent not sold as a simulation. That’s expectations from people calling games like it “immersive sims” 15-20 years later. Realistic difficulty was only referring to the damage model, which was pretty popular back then- remember, it’s right around when the Rainbow 6 games were huge. Sleeveless posted:They said the killswitch would kill me in 24 hours but I've been letting the game run for two days and nothing happened, this is BULLSHIT! Exactly- it’s the kind of thing that maybe a game now might take into account, but as far as games made in 2000 go, not so much. The ammo drops are good game design anyway. I never felt like I was running around on empty, but I had to think about how I used it and scavenging didn’t just feel like busy work. Ugly In The Morning fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Mar 15, 2020 |
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Mar 15, 2020 16:10
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Sleeveless posted:They said the killswitch would kill me in 24 hours but I've been letting the game run for two days and nothing happened, this is BULLSHIT! lol
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Mar 15, 2020 16:44
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the ammo drops are set the way they are because running out of ammo is part of the fun in deus ex
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Mar 15, 2020 16:47
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Sleeveless posted:They said the killswitch would kill me in 24 hours but I've been letting the game run for two days and nothing happened, this is BULLSHIT!
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Mar 15, 2020 16:47
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TychoCelchuuu posted:And the sun hasn't risen! What gives? I had a long arguement with a classmate in middle school about whether DE all takes place in one night. I held it did since it's night until around the gas station (iirc) where the light is almost dawn, but then it's A51 and you never see the sunrise.
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Mar 15, 2020 16:51
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Helianthus Annuus posted:the ammo drops are set the way they are because running out of ammo is part of the fun in deus ex Set DeusEx.JCDentonMale bCheatsEnabled True Spawnmass ammo3006 100
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Mar 15, 2020 21:13
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I don't need ammo. I have a baton.
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Mar 15, 2020 21:36
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Stick with the stick.
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Mar 15, 2020 21:41
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Also I hate it when your character goes for hours in games without eating or peeing or making GBS threads. Completely unrealistic. Wiping minigame or bust.
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Mar 15, 2020 21:57
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My bladder is augmented.
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Mar 15, 2020 21:58
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jojoinnit posted:I had a long arguement with a classmate in middle school about whether DE all takes place in one night. I held it did since it's night until around the gas station (iirc) where the light is almost dawn, but then it's A51 and you never see the sunrise. I assumed that 12 hours passed when you when to HK and back.
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Mar 15, 2020 22:49
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Alchenar posted:I assumed that 12 hours passed when you when to HK and back. I think Jock says something to the effect of half the killswitch time being eaten up just traveling to Hong Kong.
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Mar 15, 2020 23:20
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Keith Atherton posted:Set DeusEx.JCDentonMale bCheatsEnabled True Ah poo poo when I first found the Deus Ex cheats and I had to alter a readme file I felt so 1337 And then mostly used it to spawn excessive amounts of NPCs and then LAMs and watched my computer slow to 2 fps
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Mar 15, 2020 23:24
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I remember organizing giant rave parties of combat robots. A robot standing atop another robot would be constantly jumping because of Unreal Physics™. Summoning enough robots to get three or four layers was pretty fun. Of course eventually the robots on the top would destroy the robots on the bottom from the constant jumping, because of Unreal Physics™, so I had to renew my robot pogo dancers regularly to keep the party on.
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Mar 16, 2020 00:27
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jojoinnit posted:I had a long arguement with a classmate in middle school about whether DE all takes place in one night. I held it did since it's night until around the gas station (iirc) where the light is almost dawn, but then it's A51 and you never see the sunrise. A dude posted:I assumed that 12 hours passed when you when to HK and back. Yeah. Even if Jock's black helicopter is powered by slush hydrogen and inobtanium, there's no way it can go from NY to Hong Kong in less than 8 hours.
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Mar 16, 2020 00:29
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Yeah so I reckon real time until you get captured by UNATCO, a few hours timeskip there, then a 8-12 hour jump to the next night as you fly to HK, then a similar skip to Paris, then back to the US. So... three days, maybe four depending on how fast the chopper is. Better than Human Revolution, which literally takes place over 1 night.
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Mar 16, 2020 00:35
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Alchenar posted:Yeah so I reckon real time until you get captured by UNATCO, a few hours timeskip there, then a 8-12 hour jump to the next night as you fly to HK, then a similar skip to Paris, then back to the US. I dunno... in HR, you fly from Chicago to China, then back, then back again, then strap yourself to a rocket and fly to the Arctic Ocean. Even if Malik's VTOL is powered by unicorn farts, the player can't possibly do that all in one night. EDIT: also you stow away on a cargo ship.
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Mar 16, 2020 00:40
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Doesn't whiny nerd even say you've been gone for 12 hours or something when you wake up after doing the DLC? If the original spends a day of traveling to China and back, there's no reason to think that HR would be any different. MD actually does take place during one day though, but at least that's integrated into the story pretty well. Plus it's only the first half of a game, I'm sure the rest would have gone into another day or two.
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Mar 16, 2020 04:31
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The Hengsha level of Human Revolutions takes place during the day, it's just that since you spend most of it under the pizza you only see the sun during a single elevator scene at the end.
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Mar 16, 2020 04:40
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