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NikkolasKing posted:To me it was all the quotes at the start of each chapter. I don't know what they're called but they're in all the books and man are they super confusing the first time through. Most of the intro text in WoK is quotes from the dying. Their references are often super vague, but they're a tool of worldbuilding mostly, referencing the unmade, the radiants, the heralds, and other big past and future events. Like most of the intro text, they're meant to be subtle hints to very observant readers, but for the most part they are not meant to be understood on a first read, and will mostly just remain totally mysterious tidbits until you go back and read them with knowledge you get later.
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Mar 9, 2020 19:26
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Daric posted:There are also Interludes in between the main Parts that feature other minor characters. Those aren’t normal point of view characters but they tell some other smaller portion of the story. It’s mainly just Shallan, Kaladin, Dalinar and Adolin in the first book right? Ok yeah this is kind of what I pieced together. The rest of the stuff takes place at some point in the past. I guess I got annoyed when Kaladin came back from the Honor Chasm to finally do something, then boom, interlude. NikkolasKing posted:To me it was all the quotes at the start of each chapter. I don't know what they're called but they're in all the books and man are they super confusing the first time through. Yeah, none of them make any sense to me at all yet. I'm guessing they will later.
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Mar 9, 2020 19:35
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Yeah, the interludes are worldbuilding that may be used later. Less "this is important right now" and more that when a character wanders into the scene later or another town is mentioned you've got some point of reference.
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Mar 9, 2020 19:53
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:The rest of the stuff takes place at some point in the past. Nothing takes place in the past except for the prelude, the prologue, and the flashback chapters.
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Mar 9, 2020 20:42
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:After finishing WoT, I started on the Stormlight Archives and it's pretty drat hard to follow. I'll get a character or two's point of views, and after a few chapters it's onto other characters in a different time period. I feel like this happened 2-3 times now in Part 1. As soon as I start piecing together a character's story and what they're doing, bam, next character. I just hit Part 2 and it's yet another character in... some timeline. You can tell when it's a flashback chapter by the chapter icon. Each character has it's own chapter icon, Kaladin is represented by the spears, Shallan by the weird geometric shape, Dalinar by the Kholin crest (shield with a tower and crown on it) etc. The Double Eye of the Almighty is used for either interlude characters who don't deserve their own icon, or multi-viewpoint chapters. Notably, if a chapter is a flashback chapter, the chapter icon will be inverted. For regular Kaladin chapters, he's represented by the spears on a white background, in flashbacks, spears on a black background.
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Mar 9, 2020 21:08
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Torrannor posted:You can tell when it's a flashback chapter by the chapter icon. Each character has it's own chapter icon, Kaladin is represented by the spears, Shallan by the weird geometric shape, Dalinar by the Kholin crest (shield with a tower and crown on it) etc. The Double Eye of the Almighty is used for either interlude characters who don't deserve their own icon, or multi-viewpoint chapters. I wonder how long it would have taken me to figure this out, if at all  Thanks!
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Mar 9, 2020 22:42
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Another big key to a flashback chapter: It'll start by saying N years ago, and will not have an epigraph.
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Mar 9, 2020 23:03
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Sanderson writes with reread value in mind. You're not meant to pick up on everything on the first read, some things are only obvious on reread. In a few months I'll start rereading from WoK again to prep for RoW and I'm looking forward to picking up new things that will only be obvious now that I've read OB. The WoK death rattle epigraphs are prophetic as well. It is extremely cool to have some of those stick in your head and then realize later on that IT WAS PREDICTED!!! (a few key scenes in WoR come to mind here, some I caught the first time around, others I caught when reading the epigraphs for the second or third time)
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Mar 9, 2020 23:38
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:After finishing WoT, I started on the Stormlight Archives and it's pretty drat hard to follow. I'll get a character or two's point of views, and after a few chapters it's onto other characters in a different time period. I feel like this happened 2-3 times now in Part 1. As soon as I start piecing together a character's story and what they're doing, bam, next character. I just hit Part 2 and it's yet another character in... some timeline. It's confusing as hell, not going to lie. Brandon does a good job worldbuilding but he explains a lot of things in-universe and with the characters' understanding, so sometimes they make conclusions or deductions that are inscrutable until you're more familiar with the world. The prologue is especially impossible to decipher without outside knowledge, but it doesn't directly require understanding for the rest of the narrative. It definitely rewards rereading
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Mar 9, 2020 23:54
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I'm very glad the Mistborn Trilogy was my introduction to Sandeson. I'm almost done with Way of Kings which will make it the second Sandeson book I've read twice, the first being The Final Empire. I won't pretend to recall everything about Mistborn perfectly but I think I forgot more things in Way of Kings than happened in all of TFE. I love that book and I like Way of Kings a lot but...man, it's night and day in terms of keeping track of characters, events, lore, powers, etc.. I gotta finish my reread the first three Mistborn books to see just how different they are in terms of information overload. Also Vin is still my fave protagonist. Her and Kelsier forever, even though I also deeply love Dalinar and Kaladin.
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Mar 10, 2020 15:32
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Torrannor posted:Notably, if a chapter is a flashback chapter, the chapter icon will be inverted. For regular Kaladin chapters, he's represented by the spears on a white background, in flashbacks, spears on a black background. This isn't the case in WoK, at least not my copy. I think Sanderson started doing the inverted chapter icon in Oathbringer. That said, the "x years earlier" part should give away that it's a flashback chapter. Each book has one character it looks at the background of. The interludes aren't just extra world building, though that definitely exists. There is a novella of a secondary character going on that is important to the current story and you can tell who it is because they have a chapter in each interlude section of the book. It's also pretty clear as the books go on that certain characters in the interludes will become important people later on because each book has an interlude that they feature in.
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Mar 10, 2020 15:40
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It would be impossible for a Radiant to make use of the Thrill, right? The powers just seem incompatible on an ideal level. You can't put Life Before Death when you also are consumed by the hunger for death.
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Mar 11, 2020 10:25
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NikkolasKing posted:It would be impossible for a Radiant to make use of the Thrill, right? The powers just seem incompatible on an ideal level. You can't put Life Before Death when you also are consumed by the hunger for death. It's not a "make use of" thing. It's a "be affected by" thing. And Dalinar is a radiant who is explicitly affected by the Thrill, so that answers your question: Nope.
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Mar 11, 2020 16:12
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NikkolasKing posted:It would be impossible for a Radiant to make use of the Thrill, right? The powers just seem incompatible on an ideal level. You can't put Life Before Death when you also are consumed by the hunger for death. What the ideals mean are based on your own beliefs/worldview though. So theoretically you could go crazy in a very particular way like the Heralds have and still believe you're following the oaths correctly.
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Mar 11, 2020 21:07
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I am literally watching the first world building lecture in Sanderson's 2020 lectures and at the 34 min mark he casually drops "I'm writing the Mistborn screen play right now" Sure enough I head over to his website and there's a tracker there at 10%!!! What the hell!?!?!?! I mean in a totally good way. I guess the writing on RoW is going really well then?!?! Progress bar is at 2/3rds for draft 3 of Stormlight 4 as well.
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Mar 12, 2020 12:12
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Leng posted:I am literally watching the first world building lecture in Sanderson's 2020 lectures and at the 34 min mark he casually drops "I'm writing the Mistborn screen play right now" Now I'm trying to decide if I want an 8 episode season as a prestige show on HBO/Amazon/Netflix or if I want a 2-3 hour movie with a ginormous talent and FX budget.
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Mar 12, 2020 13:40
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I hope he gets someone to help with the dialogue. Like, I trust Sanderson in terms of how the story beats unfold in dialogue, but for the wording of witticisms, comebacks, jokes, etc. he doesn't do so good.
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Mar 12, 2020 13:45
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Leng posted:I am literally watching the first world building lecture in Sanderson's 2020 lectures and at the 34 min mark he casually drops "I'm writing the Mistborn screen play right now" Some Chinese company optioned the Cosmere rights a while ago. I seem to recall they wanted a Mistborn series and a Stormlight movie, which seems tremendously backwards to me, but maybe their position has changed since I last read about it. Also last I knew, they had the writers from like Saw 5 and one of those xXx Vin Deisel movies working on the projects, so... As much as I want them to be good, and I will see them, I'm not going to allow myself to get too excited. Edit: https://www.dmg-entertainment.com/film/mistborn/ Sab669 fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Mar 12, 2020 |
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Mar 12, 2020 13:54
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I have yet to see a good adaptation of a fantasy book. From Harry Potter to A Song of Ice and Fire to now this disastrous Artemis Fowl adaptation, all have been garbage. I came to the conclusion that fantasy books should not be adapted years ago when I read The Silmarillion as I contemplated how it would be totally ruined . I don't know why people are so obsessed with "well if the book is good it needs a movie or TV show." NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Mar 12, 2020 |
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Mar 12, 2020 14:21
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Eh, I liked both the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings movies (though I never read either series). If you stretch the definition of 'book', Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood was really good, so was Mob Psycho 100.
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Mar 12, 2020 14:25
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NikkolasKing posted:I have yet to see a good adaptation of a fantasy book. From Harry Potter to A Song of Ice and Fire to now this disastrous Artemis Fowl adaptation, all have been garbage. I came to the conclusion that fantasy books should not be adapted years ago when I read The Silmarillion as I contemplated how it would be totally ruined .  Cicero posted:Eh, I liked both the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings movies (though I never read either series). If you stretch the definition of 'book', Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood was really good, so was Mob Psycho 100. HP films were more tolerable than the books, and the LOTR movies were a great addition to the IP though not a replacement for the books.
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Mar 12, 2020 14:40
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The point of an adaptation is to create more fans who wouldn’t normally read the books. How many more people do you think read Harry Potter after seeing the movies?
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Mar 12, 2020 15:04
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Cicero posted:Eh, I liked both the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings movies (though I never read either series). If you stretch the definition of 'book', Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood was really good, so was Mob Psycho 100. I don't think manga to anime is comparable to novel to film. Since LOTR was mentioned, I don't blame them for killing all nuance in the narrative to focus more on character development. The novels were not about character development. Gandalf's death got a couple lines in Fellowship about how Frodo and the others were crying and then we move on. In the movie it's all dramatic and slow mo and all the rest of it. It's impossible to tell the same story in the same way in a movie based on a book. And that's why you just don't make adaptations. You have to turn Elrond into a bitter old man or Aragorn into a reluctant hero afraid of his destiny or Denethor into a gross pig or.... They have to inject a lot of stuff into LOTR to make it more compelling for cinema. Mistborn isn't LOTR of course. Sanderson is as much about character development as he is about themes and worldbuilding. But I still think my point stands that adaptations can never be the same as the novels and that's just an inevitable part of books and movies being wildly different mediums.
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Mar 12, 2020 15:04
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Of course they're different. That doesn't mean they can't be good in their own right.
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Mar 12, 2020 15:06
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Game of Thrones was great right up until they ran out of source material. LOTR was great, but also I haven't read the book so I suppose I can't "accurately" weigh in there. But I don't think I've ever heard any real criticism of the trilogy. E: Cicero posted:Of course they're different. That doesn't mean they can't be good in their own right. Yea, this.
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Mar 12, 2020 15:09
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Daric posted:The point of an adaptation is to create more fans who wouldn’t normally read the books. How many more people do you think read Harry Potter after seeing the movies? I agree that spreading awareness of good books is awesome but we're talking Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and Brandon Sandeson here. These are not unknown quantities. I know HP was a phenomenon long before the movies happened and I read Sanderson after years of hearing people sing his praises on forums. I mean, I'm not campaigning to stop him or anything. I just don't understand why famous books have to be adapted when it so often turns out bad. It seems like a cheap grab for money. But I guess if it results in more people reading Mistborn, that is good.
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Mar 12, 2020 15:19
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NikkolasKing posted:I agree that spreading awareness of good books is awesome but we're talking Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and Brandon Sandeson here. These are not unknown quantities. I know HP was a phenomenon long before the movies happened and I read Sanderson after years of hearing people sing his praises on forums. quote:I mean, I'm not campaigning to stop him or anything. I just don't understand why famous books have to be adapted when it so often turns out bad. It seems like a cheap grab for money. But I guess if it results in more people reading Mistborn, that is good. It's a different kind of good compared to books, obviously, but it's not like having a movie or TV series around makes the books go away (except maybe in the ASOIAF case).
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Mar 12, 2020 15:23
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NikkolasKing posted:I agree that spreading awareness of good books is awesome but we're talking Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and Brandon Sandeson here. These are not unknown quantities. I know HP was a phenomenon long before the movies happened and I read Sanderson after years of hearing people sing his praises on forums. Yeah, but unlike you and me, who are more than happy to post about books we enjoy all day long, most people these days don't read books. I got my girlfriend to read the Cormoran Strike books but only after showing her the first couple episodes of the show. And those are by JK so you'd assume they were at least decent. She may read 2-3 books a year whereas I read 40-50. And I'd wager that there's more people like her than people like me. She has an understanding of who Sanderson is because I rave about his books all the time but her copy of Skyward hasn't even had the spine cracked even though she was initially excited about reading it. And if Brandon is writing the screenplay, I'd put more trust into things going well than if they had some random person doing it. I hope whatever it ends up being is worth watching because more people being introduced to Mistborn and the rest of the Cosmere can only be good.
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Mar 12, 2020 15:27
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NikkolasKing posted:I have yet to see a good adaptation of a fantasy book. From Harry Potter to A Song of Ice and Fire to now this disastrous Artemis Fowl adaptation, all have been garbage. I came to the conclusion that fantasy books should not be adapted years ago when I read The Silmarillion as I contemplated how it would be totally ruined . In a strange twist, while the Sword of Truth books are mostly hot garbage, the screen adaptation was much more campy fun than the source material. Legend of the Seeker was objectively better than the books. But I admit, that's not a high bar to clear...
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Mar 12, 2020 15:34
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I think Mistborn would do better as an anime than a live action series, seeing it animated by Studio Mir would be super rad. Been watching Kipo and I love the animation.
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Mar 12, 2020 15:37
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Anything done by the Avatar The Last Airbender crowd would be a good fit for his style. Apparently the method they use for The Dragon Prince is faster and easier to animate than traditional stuff too, and they've worked out a lot of the kinks that made things look hinky in the first season
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Mar 12, 2020 15:57
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The animation in The Dragon Prince is alright, but so far (haven't watched last episode) the animation in Kipo has been really, really great.
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Mar 12, 2020 16:29
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Torrannor posted:In a strange twist, while the Sword of Truth books are mostly hot garbage, the screen adaptation was much more campy fun than the source material. Legend of the Seeker was objectively better than the books. But I admit, that's not a high bar to clear... I think the Sword of Truth show was built to gently caress with Goodkind, as it was mostly like Xena and the main actor was about 5'4" tall when the character is well over 6'.
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Mar 12, 2020 17:57
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Bruceski posted:Yeah, the interludes are worldbuilding that may be used later. Less "this is important right now" and more that when a character wanders into the scene later or another town is mentioned you've got some point of reference. At this point I think the majority of interludes have directly affected the plot. Very few, like The Purelake one, have had little to no impact (yet). seaborgium posted:I think the Sword of Truth show was built to gently caress with Goodkind, as it was mostly like Xena and the main actor was about 5'4" tall when the character is well over 6'. When I came across that TV show and watched it I assumed it was meant to be over the top campy and ridiculous. Because why else would you have BDSM witches and a literal Satan Chicken at one point? ...nope, that was the show actually following the source material.
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Mar 13, 2020 03:35
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Evil Fluffy posted:At this point I think the majority of interludes have directly affected the plot. Very few, like The Purelake one, have had little to no impact (yet). Yeah Purelake was purely some cameos from other bookness but I was ok with that.
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Mar 13, 2020 04:14
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This slight derail into Goodkind territory is a good time to remind people about this very good Let's Read thread which just finished Chainfire. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3668845&perpage=40
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Mar 13, 2020 04:24
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I know I've mentioned this a couple times now but it really does strike me as the biggest difference between ASOIAF and TSA is just how idealistic the latter is. Martin is not as grimderp as some say but his story is one of relentless failure and misery for our poor heroes. There are bright points but they feel so few and far between. It's why, even though The Final Empire (my first Sanderson novel) starts off more hosed up than anything in Westeros, Mistborn never felt to me like it was half as depressing as ASOIAF. As it pertains to Stormlight Archive though, Shallan's convincing the deserters to be better men and her relationship with Tyn really stand out to me. Tyn talks about making hard choices, about being broken. She's clearly not a happy person. And that's the key - justice is vital component of happy and fulfilling life in this setting. Wealth and power and even excitement are no substitute. There is is not a single happy unjust person in this setting that I can think of. Even Sadeas, when we get his perspective, is doing all of this because he's afraid of death, of his failing body, He's not happy scheming and plotting.
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Mar 13, 2020 11:38
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wizzardstaff posted:This slight derail into Goodkind territory is a good time to remind people about this very good Let's Read thread which just finished Chainfire. poo poo that's still going on? I thought it died out after the 3rd book. Welp, there goes the weekend catching up on that.
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Mar 13, 2020 12:24
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NikkolasKing posted:I know I've mentioned this a couple times now but it really does strike me as the biggest difference between ASOIAF and TSA is just how idealistic the latter is. Martin is not as grimderp as some say but his story is one of relentless failure and misery for our poor heroes. There are bright points but they feel so few and far between. It's why, even though The Final Empire (my first Sanderson novel) starts off more hosed up than anything in Westeros, Mistborn never felt to me like it was half as depressing as ASOIAF. As it pertains to Stormlight Archive though, Shallan's convincing the deserters to be better men and her relationship with Tyn really stand out to me. Tyn talks about making hard choices, about being broken. She's clearly not a happy person. And that's the key - justice is vital component of happy and fulfilling life in this setting. Wealth and power and even excitement are no substitute. There is is not a single happy unjust person in this setting that I can think of. Even Sadeas, when we get his perspective, is doing all of this because he's afraid of death, of his failing body, He's not happy scheming and plotting. Yeah, the perspectives on humanity are in stark contract. I think both tend to an extreme. If I was picking one to write over 20+ years, I'm pretty sure I'd go Sanderson's route, though.
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Mar 13, 2020 17:10
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Also I was wondering about what Odium's Shard was and if it was actually Hatred or just Passion since Odium himself invokes that a lot in Oathbringer. I figured he's just like a Chaos God or Sith Lord and only channels the darkest of emotions. But I then found this from Sanderson himself explicitly saying Odium's Shard was Hatred: https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/bvbdsr/odium_or_passion/epnmbqc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x But Rayse's perception did have some effect on it. Spoilers for Book 2 and 3 and the new reader posting in here Anyway, as idealistic as I am feeling lately, I have a hard time mustering up any real arguments against Graves. Oh believe me, I was very sad and angry when he did finally die in the next book but that's a long ways away. A lot happens between Kaladin's meeting in the bar and Elhokar's final fate. Up until this point, Elhokar has been a drunken buffoon. Graves compares Elhokar to a festering hand but in a monarchy it's more like a rot at the heart of the body or the brain. A bad king is the doom of nations. What reason is there to keep Elhokar alive? He dies anyway and everyone will be fine.
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Mar 14, 2020 14:43
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