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AlexanderCA posted:I'm a optimist I guess. Why would I trust a greek feta producer over a spanish or Danish one? There are no Spanish or Danish feta producers, so anyone claiming to be one isn't trustworthy. Hope this helps. Antifa Poltergeist posted:I hope they use it for drugs."it's only called cocaine if it's manufactured in the hills of Colombia, otherwise it's just nose powder"" Synthetic drugs are now a Noord-Brabant PDO. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Mar 13, 2020 |
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Mar 13, 2020 17:18
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| # ? May 24, 2024 04:14 |
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Look I absolutely should have the right to bottle my piss, add some baking soda to it, and sell it as "Champagne" because the free market says I have the inalienable right to exploit brand names that a lot of other people have invested a lot of effort in making prestigious and valuable and there's no reason I can't ride their coattail with my crap until I devalue their brand (then I'll just move to the next). But you'd better not even think of selling your own "Coca-Cola" because that's my own trademark and I loving own it. If you want it, you've gotta buy it from me. I'm a modern man, I want capital to be in charge of determining how things are called. I want a billionaire to be able to redefine prosecco as being chocolate, or emmental as being shoes, because that's the kind of power that money should have. But, like, communities? gently caress them, they're people, not money, and therefore worthless.
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Mar 13, 2020 17:25
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Cat Mattress posted:Look I absolutely should have the right to bottle my piss, add some baking soda to it, and sell it as "Champagne" ah, good evening Mr Moët
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Mar 13, 2020 17:33
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V. Illych L. posted:plus direct cash transfers are some client stuff, nobody wants to rely on them because they turn you into a colony
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Mar 13, 2020 17:54
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Either way it's pretty funny that the countries that colonized 3/4 of the planet, stole all their stuff, and attempted to appropriate or erase their religion and culture are also the ones most obsessive about "No you can only call it Dorset Blue Vinny if it's made within Shytesborough, population 10, by a guy named Vincent on a Wednesday while the moon is full, this is vital to our identity."
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Mar 13, 2020 17:57
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Isn't that pretty much what's going on now? I think AlexanderCA's suggestion was the EU offering money that would help make Greece less dependent, by strengthening the kinds of institutions that could help support domestic industry. like preserving a long and pretty solid culinary agricultural tradition, you mean?
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Mar 13, 2020 18:22
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God I love this thread. Throwing a small PO stone into the pond reliably generates a tidal wave of argumentation.  We all deserve the distraction. (Also it's so much better since we ran the fash out)
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Mar 13, 2020 18:33
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Imagine how much better Europe could be if we ran the fash out there, too.
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Mar 13, 2020 18:39
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I actually should buy some parmesan. We've got a bunch pasta dishes setup for the next few days and I just ran out.
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Mar 13, 2020 18:44
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The parmesan was cleaned out in my supermarket. Only Pecorino left, a fate worse than death. (Also tons of tins of food on the shelves, but the crisps sold out. No more doritos. People really have interesting panic buying behaviours)
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Mar 13, 2020 18:48
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Junior G-man posted:The parmesan was cleaned out in my supermarket. Only Pecorino left, a fate worse than death. I noticed that too. People taking more pasta than rice. I personally find rice a far more versatile dish than pasta, and would rather stock up on that. The canned food wasn't much raided at all, plenty of beans and lentils to go around. But I also may not wholly understand the French palate.
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Mar 13, 2020 19:02
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Panic buying finally arrived in my small town in Bavaria. It was civil, but it was super weird seeing everybody being super suspicious of everybody else and it felt eerie to actually see an empty toilet paper shelf in person.
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Mar 13, 2020 19:29
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V. Illych L. posted:like preserving a long and pretty solid culinary agricultural tradition, you mean?
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Mar 13, 2020 19:38
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It's an indirect subsidy to farmers, sold along nationalist lines. How many Greeks actually benefit from feta having to be produced in Greece? quite a lot, i imagine, since having actual exports is useful to an economy and a good many communities are entirely dependent on this sort of thing
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Mar 13, 2020 19:39
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at any rate, if there was no point in the PO it wouldn't have any effect - for whatever reason, people prefer feta cheese to apetina and parmesan to pecorino. had they not, they wouldn't be buying feta cheese at a markup
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Mar 13, 2020 19:41
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Pecorino is a dry sheep cheese. The actual replacement for Parmesan, which is a cheese made from cow milk, would be Grana Padano, which can be pretty good, too.
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Mar 13, 2020 19:50
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PO is fantastic. It protects production methods and people who the free market would otherwise potentially destroy. And ensures a higher quality of lots of regional produce. If someone doesn't want to pay for the more expensive PO item they can still buy off-brand crappy Walmart/Tesco whatever too, nobody is preventing that from being sold. PO just means the crappy stuff exists alongside the original and has to compete on quality, instead of competing under the same product name on price.
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Mar 13, 2020 20:19
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to expand on blut's point, when you go into a shop and you have to make decisions, you very frequently run into an information deficit. so, when i want to buy e.g. laundry detergent, i am faced with a range of options and i have no interest in taking the time to make an actual educated decision. the information i have in front of me is price, brand name and any environmental tags - that's all i'm realistically going to process. in principle, brand loyalty is a bad thing so i try to ignore it - whether it's made by pepsico or coca cola company isn't particularly interesting to me. environmental tags do play a role in my decision, but if they're equivalent on that it's all on price. i have too many options and too many choices to make to be able to actually make an informed consumer decision. PO, by effectively limiting what feta cheese is, gives me another hook - when i see a PO product it gives me a subcategory with drastically limited choice, since even the most hoity-toity shops aren't going to have a bunch of different feta cheese brands. this actually allows me as a consumer to make a more informed decision, since i can infer that there is some difference between apetina and feta, and that gives me something else to go on than just price. so i can buy apetina and feta and test those categories against each other, which i might actually do, and then settle on the difference. if both were marked feta, i would almost certainly just go for the cheap stuff because there's no categorical distinction here. this is not how a market is supposed to work. according to most market liberal ideologies, the consumer is supposed to evaluate all aspects of the product before the purchase is made. most of us do not do this because it would take a completely ridiculous amount of time and we have better things to do than google the working conditions in turkish chemical plants or whatever
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Mar 13, 2020 20:31
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https://twitter.com/leonardocarella/status/1238511893129592838 Solidarity 
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Mar 13, 2020 20:38
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V. Illych L. posted:if the products were identical they would be outcompeting feta on price per every mainstream theory of commodity competition. the competing products are widely available and have strong presence in most markets. the effect of PDOs really aren't hard to explain through a mainstream liberal economic perspective for the same reasons you have outlined in the posts you made following this: 'feta' cheeses are not an interchangeable commodity and there are real differences between each brand of cheese. In terms of effect PDOs do not differ from brands, and there is a great deal of research into how to analyze the effect of brand differentiation. You pointed out they aren't privately owned in contrast to copyright, but that shouldn't impact the market effect. It sounds like you've defended PDOs for their re distributive effect. I certainly don't know what the quantified effect of this is, but I certainly wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it is actually redistributing to the kind of people who need it. In many cases the redistribution will just be from one poor guy to another, which is difficult to justify. Not all PDOs command equally high premiums regardless of quality, so the effect will be create groups of winners and losers. In some cases the re-distributive effect is obviously in the wrong direction. I'm sure the Chateau de Rothschild produces lovely wine, but I'm not sure the price difference between what it and other similar wineries produces is all really to do with quality. I suspect if we were to break down the distribution of economic rents from PDOs the vast majority would command minimal premiums, while a small number of areas dominated by relatively well off producers with luxury cachet would swallow up the vast majority of gains. While the US doesn't really have anything comparable to PDOs in terms of most food, it does have various regulations which amount to basically the same thing in the Wine industry, even if there are still a few disputes over some specific terms the US allows to be used generically. In practice most US retailers are already highly familiar with the European system and pay close attention to it and market products based on it. I suspect in the future PDOs will be something the US would be willing to compromise on with the EU in a trade deal, in exchange for the EU in turn permitting imports of GMOs or otherwise giving the US something it wants.
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Mar 13, 2020 21:38
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no i'm defending them out of what amounts to straight-up conservativism, i think that there's a value to these traditions and communities which will be needlessly lost if we don't do this fairly cost-neutral thing - i'm making an argument which is effectively exogenous to formal calculations here also i'm not talking about theory really - i'm sure that if there was no way to formalise this in a liberal economic framework it wouldn't exist under the EU aegis - but more that it represents a mentality which is ideologically pretty much absent from most discussions stemming from that framework. the intuition of liberal arguments is almost always that regulations which inhibit actor choice is bad unless they're there to provide some objective or pseudo-objective (eco-markers etc) information. saying that cheese is only feta if produced under X conditions is, as others have pointed out, not really saying much about the product itself - one can absolutely imagine a situation where apetina would fairly outcompete feta, after all
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Mar 13, 2020 21:54
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100YrsofAttitude posted:I noticed that too. People taking more pasta than rice. People are weird. In Sweden pasta, meat soup and big 2kg flour packages have been primary targets. Beans, lentils, tuna, fats and etc not nearly as much.
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Mar 13, 2020 21:54
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MiddleOne posted:People are weird. In Sweden pasta, meat soup and big 2kg flour packages have been primary targets. Beans, lentils, tuna, fats and etc not nearly as much. We go towards what we're used to I guess. I grew up on beans, rice, lentils, flavored with a bit of pork fat and fresh vegetables (it was a Latin American household). The first of those things store super well, and I love eating them. I've begun to make pasta a lot in the last couple of years, but it's still a "thing". Definitely a not a staple in my mind. I also eat tons of tinned fish, but that's not quite as cheap as the other things on your list.
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Mar 13, 2020 22:14
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My supermarket (Haarlem, the Netherlands) had no; toiletpaper, beans, frozen veggies, patatoes, bread and water. This while the employees were standing around sort of befuddled going...we're not closing down. Stop panicking, this isn't helping. Like, fair enough if you're elderly and self-protecting you know? But 20 year olds were rushing and bowling people over.
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Mar 13, 2020 22:56
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username/post combo
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Mar 13, 2020 23:24
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double nine posted:username/post combo I wasn't bowling people over 
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Mar 13, 2020 23:30
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There some value in PDO as a regional specialty seal of approval or something, but stuff likequote:Under the EU rules, Parmesan can be made only once a day, in the morning, with a blend of milk from evening and morning milking is insanely silly and dumb
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Mar 14, 2020 00:18
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:There some value in PDO as a regional specialty seal of approval or something, but stuff like I think there can be some genuine preservative cultural/historic value in PDOs, so perhaps mentioning specifics isn't such a bad idea. If nothing else it at least theoretically makes it harder for producers with existing naming rights to cut corrners and still retain that "seal of quality" a PDO tends to signify. Gotta protect that Falukorv, after all! 
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Mar 14, 2020 00:52
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:There some value in PDO as a regional specialty seal of approval or something, but stuff like
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Mar 14, 2020 05:47
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I hear all the big supermarkets in town are empty, but the small stores in my village are all pretty full and no hoarding going on. I shopped last night but only a few things. I guess if I would stock on something I'd stock on potatoes. Good ole potatoes.
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Mar 14, 2020 06:34
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There's a new sick man in Europe. It's Europe.
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Mar 14, 2020 09:05
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Kassad posted:There's a new sick man in Europe. It's Europe. 
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Mar 14, 2020 09:56
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Guavanaut posted:Either way it's pretty funny that the countries that colonized 3/4 of the planet, stole all their stuff, and attempted to appropriate or erase their religion and culture are also the ones most obsessive about "No you can only call it Dorset Blue Vinny if it's made within Shytesborough, population 10, by a guy named Vincent on a Wednesday while the moon is full, this is vital to our identity."  V. Illych L. posted:no i'm defending them out of what amounts to straight-up conservativism, i think that there's a value to these traditions and communities which will be needlessly lost PDOs are 1) one of the many tools used to prop up rural communities in the EU, which I consider an inherently wrong goal and 2) place restrictions based primarily around geographical origin (and sometimes also dumb poo poo that couldn't possibly matter for reasons other than "we've always done it this way"), which I consider an inherently wrong goal.
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Mar 14, 2020 10:39
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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What the gently caress's wrong about proppin up rural communities? e: Though inherent objection to the preservation of traditional crafts and non-urban life and culture probably does mesh pretty well with your red text. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Mar 14, 2020 |
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Mar 14, 2020 10:46
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Randarkman posted:What the gently caress's wrong about proppin up rural communities? Rural living is disproportionately bad for the environment, if people insist on doing it they shouldn't get subsidised for it. More broadly speaking if you want to maintain traditional rural life as a political or cultural goal for whatever reason then I guess PDOs as such aren't the absolute most destructive way to do that but currently they just amplify the fire hose of money pointed at rural areas while not making sense as descriptors of agricultural products (e.g. in the case of Champagne or anything else that needs to grow in a particular climate to get it's typical taste the actual regions suited to making purestrain PDO products probably have shifted to some broadly geologically similar area 1000km further north already). If you want to keep some ~heritage~ in the countryside just prop up limited areas with a heritage fund instead of forcing the rest of the world to deal with it.
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Mar 14, 2020 11:39
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suck my woke dick posted:Rural living is disproportionately bad for the environment, if people insist on doing it they shouldn't get subsidised for it. Out of all the reasons to oppose it, this is by far the dumbest I've heard in quite a while.
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Mar 14, 2020 13:01
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It seems a lot like the EU's opposition to GMOs. There's some hosed up practices around gene patents and stuff that should be rightfully opposed, but the solution to that is legislating against gene patents and making a ton of GM stuff public domain/creative commons, not blanket bans. But the main EU opposition doesn't seem to be because Monsanto are poo poo, but for conspiracy theory reasons and because conservative rural farmers fear and hate anything invented since the 1750s.
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Mar 14, 2020 13:40
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Guavanaut posted:But the main EU opposition doesn't seem to be because Monsanto are poo poo, but for conspiracy theory reasons and because conservative rural farmers fear and hate anything invented since the 1750s. I wish your spoiler were true, but their love of flooding the world under trillions of litres of pesticides is something very recent, historically speaking -- it's a 20th century innovation. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-collapse-of-nature
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Mar 14, 2020 16:26
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Cat Mattress posted:I wish your spoiler were true, but their love of flooding the world under trillions of litres of pesticides is something very recent, historically speaking -- it's a 20th century innovation. Doesn't explain GMO opposition. If the EU is opposed to pesticides they should ban them. Banning GMOs in order to ban the subset of pesticides that use GMOs is an absurd roundabout method to use.
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Mar 14, 2020 19:48
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Also if GMO research were to be directed by public bodies for the common good, rather than paperclip maximizers that only care about the next quarter, research could focus on specific types that reduce pesticide/herbicide use or use less damaging ones, rather than ones that encourage more brand loyalty.
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Mar 14, 2020 20:49
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