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Restrained Crown Posse posted:I'm guessing the finale's going to involve Borg Original turning up due to Seven triggering the Find My Cube theft protection from her little stunt this week. 
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Mar 14, 2020 19:30
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So does Seven catch the Admonishment-crazyborg thing now, or what?
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Mar 14, 2020 19:33
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I was really, really hoping for a possibility of a regenerated Hugh. That whole sequence felt like one bit tease. Although, I've never been cheering for someone to be assimilated before.
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Mar 14, 2020 19:56
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Powered Descent posted:So does Seven catch the Admonishment-crazyborg thing now, or what? I think if that was going to happen they probably would have at least hinted at it before the episode ended when she unBorg'd. Also she didn't even puke or nothing.
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Mar 14, 2020 19:59
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When you consider how Jurati acted completely against her nature of the dorky scientist when she killed Maddox, which sounds like the case for Vandermeer in that he committed an act completely against his nature too, it's entirely possible that Vandermeer had a face-to-face "briefing" from Oh as well at some point. In fact, it's not hard to imagine a large number of Starfleet captains having the same briefing.
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Mar 14, 2020 20:04
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FlamingLiberal posted:That fakeout reminds me of the end of Nemesis where they tease this massive fleet showing up to go after the Scimitar, but we never get to see it That’s my fear too. As soon as they said Picard was getting a whole fleet at DS12 I went “they’re going to Nemesis this and we’re never going to see that fleet  “ And so far we’re on course for that.Hopefully I’m wrong in the next two eps.
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Mar 14, 2020 20:08
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MrChips posted:When you consider how Jurati acted completely against her nature of the dorky scientist when she killed Maddox, which sounds like the case for Vandermeer in that he committed an act completely against his nature too, it's entirely possible that Vandermeer had a face-to-face "briefing" from Oh as well at some point. In fact, it's not hard to imagine a large number of Starfleet captains having the same briefing. That would be legit interesting. That's what I've been saying about keeping it a secret being counter intuitive.
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Mar 14, 2020 20:08
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Lizard Combatant posted:That would be legit interesting. There is also the possibility that Commadore Oh can transmit the worst information, making people only seeing like one portion of whats going on.
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Mar 14, 2020 20:12
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Considering that whole Romulan fleet took off to the synth homeworld, I'm guessing the federation fleet will have to show up to fight them. That or the Borg cube does. Probably the cube since they already have a model of that. Have we seen any Starfleet ships?
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Mar 14, 2020 20:13
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Mooseontheloose posted:There is also the possibility that Commadore Oh can transmit the worst information, making people only seeing like one portion of whats going on. Like hiding the synths saving Earth from a devastating attack from an even worse enemy returning home after millions of years in the Delta Quadrant. The Voth have come to reclaim what is theirs.
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Mar 14, 2020 20:16
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Mooseontheloose posted:There is also the possibility that Commadore Oh can transmit the worst information, making people only seeing like one portion of whats going on. Possibly yes, but she also seems to be able to pass it on without making people off themselves unlike the beacon thingy. So is she making it slightly less horrific?
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Mar 14, 2020 20:17
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e: you know what nevermind
Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Mar 14, 2020 |
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Mar 14, 2020 20:18
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we have SEALs and Green Berets whacking eachother for crime reasons like drug smuggling, our destroyers keep running into freighters in the middle of the night due to undertrained crews, exhaustion and incompetent arrogant leadership. we have former generals who've been caught working as unregistered foreign agents, and the president just pardoned one of the most unhinged war criminals in american history, why does this last straw strain your credulity
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Mar 14, 2020 20:57
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I really like Picard having his big moment sitting in the chair then not knowing how to fly the ship. Kinda wish this episode was half way through the season not at the end. Feels like we spent forever to get the tiniest crumb of interesting plot.
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Mar 14, 2020 20:58
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Star Trek's already established that a bunch of Starfleet Command is in the know about one super-secret group behind starfleet intelligence with a secret mission, they can't play that card twice.
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Mar 14, 2020 21:11
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Kesper North posted:we have SEALs and Green Berets whacking eachother for crime reasons like drug smuggling, our destroyers keep running into freighters in the middle of the night due to undertrained crews, exhaustion and incompetent arrogant leadership. we have former generals who've been caught working as unregistered foreign agents, and the president just pardoned one of the most unhinged war criminals in american history, why does this last straw strain your credulity The crashing one was actually a failing of the ship controls. They replaced all the controls of the ship with a computer console. The guy who was supposed to train everyone had only received minimal training himself. The controls glitched and they couldn't avoid the crash. The Navy charged the captain and the 19 yo sailor at the controls and other people with sea crimes because that was easier than blaming the defense contractor that created the system, because that would start a congressional inquiry and that would be bad for investors. Big Navy called someone and told him to shoot the careers of several sailors in order to save people money.
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Mar 14, 2020 21:48
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Kesper North posted:we have SEALs and Green Berets whacking eachother for crime reasons like drug smuggling, our destroyers keep running into freighters in the middle of the night due to undertrained crews, exhaustion and incompetent arrogant leadership. we have former generals who've been caught working as unregistered foreign agents, and the president just pardoned one of the most unhinged war criminals in american history, why does this last straw strain your credulity I'm sorry I stopped watching the show and therefore forgot that Star Trek takes place in America in the 21st century.
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Mar 14, 2020 22:02
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I think, and have explained multiple times, that it is perfectly reasonable for virtually anybody outside of the highest echelons of Starfleet Intelligence to assume that they are able to make good on threats. Whether or not the threat was real doesn't really matter, and "evidence" could have been as simple as hacking the ship computer to make it look like a warp core breach was imminent. If all Starfleet ships still have prefix codes, Oh would probably have access to those codes and the security clearance necessary to activate the auto-destruct. But yeah, whether or not she actually would've pulled the trigger doesn't matter because I doubt too many captains would call that bluff, and a Vulcan's bluff, no less.
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Mar 14, 2020 22:25
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Senor Tron posted:I'm actually impressed with how much people seem to think nothing happens offscreen. Franchise fans are broke brained from decades of tech manuals and wiki articles about breasts filling in every conceivable element and loose end of plot. They don't want to use imagination, inference, or intuition to understand a story any more. They want everything in excruciating detail, and then they'll complain about that as well. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Mar 14, 2020 |
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Mar 14, 2020 22:26
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I'm pretty sure Oh got to her position by going "Well I'm Vulcan so i'm not influenced by emotions, everything I do is logical" and she's traded on that her entire career. Eventually you get to the point where everyone is in the air when she says jump and before she says which way.
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Mar 14, 2020 23:00
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I'll have you know I'm a very popular inferencer on various sochal madia.
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Mar 14, 2020 23:00
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This thread has tempted me to re-watch the Omega Protocol episode of Voyager. I really can see how people fall asleep to this, even as one of the more interesting episodes it is soporific. And I'd forgotten just how much I dislike Mulgrew's baseline performance of banal arrogance.
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Mar 14, 2020 23:22
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:Franchise fans are broke brained from decades of tech manuals and wiki articles about breasts filling in every conceivable element and loose end of plot. They don't want to use imagination, inferencer, or intuition to understand a story any more. They want everything in excruciating detail, and then they'll complain about that as well. Dude I get your frustration with fandom in general, but I promise you I don't give a flying gently caress about explanatory wiki entries or EU novels or any of that crap. All I care about is what the episode tells us and how effective that is at telling its story. Much like the Thad disease, Rios' backstory felt like another clunky and forced attempt to tie everything together. It's too convenient to be believable, relies on a series of coincidences to work it into the plot and it's not even saying anything meaningful in the process. The Captain didn't fight an unjust order, nor did he even believe what he was doing was right (since he couldn't live with the decision) - this was a super secret order issued under penalty of death for him and his crew, not a choice born out of a society warped by propaganda and fear mongering. Which kind of blunts Picard's speech about fear being the real enemy. It wasn't a fear of synths or the other, he apparently had no real agency any more than someone being forced to act with a gun pointed at their wife's head would. And then if you do start using that imagination you're bemoaning a lack of and actually consider the implications, Oh's approach looks either needlessly risky or implies a level of control that makes her other actions feel inefficient and sloppy. To me anyway. We get some very nice acting out of the scenes between Rios/Raffi and Rios/Picard, but it's masking some contrived writing. I'm trying to go with the flow, but I keep getting pulled out of the story by the heavy handed mechanics that don't even feel to be in service of something of any substance. What is the point of the The Captain's story? That if the all powerful villain threatens to kill your crew with no chance of escape you might just cave to their demands? Yeah probably. Cool, way to tie up an episode teasing that nugget out.
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Mar 14, 2020 23:53
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Alchenar posted:Star Trek's already established that a bunch of Starfleet Command is in the know about one super-secret group behind starfleet intelligence with a secret mission, they can't play that card twice. Wait till you hear about section Thirty-Two
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Mar 15, 2020 00:38
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Lizard Combatant posted:Dude I get your frustration with fandom in general, but I promise you I don't give a flying gently caress about explanatory wiki entries or EU novels or any of that crap. All I care about is what the episode tells us and how effective that is at telling its story. I apologise for my broad strokes hyperbole. I was feeling pissy because you people made me watch an episode of Voyager for the first time in decades. And now I feel like I can't wash the blandness away no matter how much I scrub.
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Mar 15, 2020 00:48
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:I apologise for my broad strokes hyperbole. I was feeling pissy because you people made me watch an episode of Voyager for the first time in decades. And now I feel like I can't wash the blandness away no matter how much I scrub. Wash? A good sand scrub, that's the best we can hope for.
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Mar 15, 2020 00:56
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The Bloop posted:Wait till you hear about section Thirty-Two See if Picard wanted to be a really deep show, then they'd set up a three way debate between idealistic Picard in one corner, xenophobic insular Federation in another, and Section 31 in the middle. The whole concept behind them is 'we do evil poo poo at night because we want a world in which people like Picard can wake up every day and do the idealistic explorer thing'. They genuinely are the element you bring in if you want to have a nuanced dilemma about how far you are willing to bend the rules. And rather than have them as the unambiguous bad guy doing genocide or just being dumb, confront Picard with someone competent trying to be the lesser evil and see how he reacts. You think of TNG Picard as a diplomat first, but if you dive into the episode list he actually gets involved in and is okay with quite a lot of sketchy black ops poo poo. Film Picard probably doesn't have any time for this, despite the fact that if you were to write up what he's done this season, (establish an 'off the books' mission, recruit a Romulan spec ops agent, be complicit in the assassination of a criminal syndicate head, incite a riot on a Borg cube in Romulan space) it's ironically totally what Section 31 would presumably call a good day's work for the Federation. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Mar 15, 2020 |
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Mar 15, 2020 01:59
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Picard loves sketchy undercover subterfuge poo poo. He's done it so many times in his Starfleet career. He also had no problem with brutally murdering a member of his own crew with a Thompson submachinegun that one time.
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Mar 15, 2020 02:01
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Hey remember that time Picard led a black ops mission to blow up a Cardassian weapons facility and it turned out to be a trap and he got tortured and we got some of the best Star Trek that's just two Shakespearean actors playing diametrically opposed characters at each other? e: hell I've convinced myself - you could totally still write the ending of this season to reveal that section 31 set everything in motion. They know about Oh, they know about the Admonition, they knew about the twins. They couldn't activate the twin on Earth but they intercept the 'call home' and are able to plant a message to go to Picard. Raffi is secretly a Section 31 agent. Section 31 need to get to the twin on the cube before the Tal Shiar do because they know something about the Admonition threat that would make it really bad if the Romulans took out Android world. Maybe they have a really stupid plan in motion to control the threat. Anyway Picard is the only Federation agent who could get on the Cube and make and escape, so they set everything up to push him into space. Even the medical diagnosis is fake to give him a sense of 'nothing left to lose by one last mission' (that lets them get out of bringing it up again). Alchenar fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Mar 15, 2020 |
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Mar 15, 2020 02:06
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Whoever pointed out the Inner Light theme reference, Jesus Christ. I loved the theme, and for nostalgia I never skip it when I watch the episodes. I know the series is all over the place but when Stewart is given his poo poo, he loving owns that poo poo.
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Mar 15, 2020 02:13
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My guess with the 8 stars and the extra android is instead of twins the androids are produced in groups of 8, which means 5 other living Sojis out there. My other guess is season 2 deals with the mystery bads who show up after android critical mass
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Mar 15, 2020 02:35
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General spy poo poo isn't just the purview of Section 31, Starfleet has always had an intelligence division and covert ops. Section 31 were all about Starfleet being able to break their own rules with war crimes and violating the rights of their own citizens behind the scenes to preserve the illusion of a more enlightened society. That's what made them such a loving awful concept. You can use them once or twice as a malevolent force to be defeated maybe, but keeping them as a permanent fixture in the series to get your "ends justify the means" rocks off is the antithesis of the show imo. Anyone who pitches an episode about them as a necessary evil should be shown the door immediately. e: hardline stance I know, but damnit I got views on this 
Lizard Combatant fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Mar 16, 2020 |
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Mar 15, 2020 02:51
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Tars Tarkas posted:My guess with the 8 stars and the extra android is instead of twins the androids are produced in groups of 8, which means 5 other living Sojis out there. You just know that after setting that up they'll still run out of Sojis and have to have a complicated retcon.
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Mar 15, 2020 03:30
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I'm wondering if once we cross that threshold that we'll be met with the new life and new civilizations from a multi-galactic version of the Federation (or maybe the Dominion). We'd be the podunk backwoods hillfolk in this new era, and it could free them up from having to deal with the shrinking frontiers of the Milky Way (I mean, we all know there are hundreds of thousands of species that could still be out there, but I could see some writer's room producers saying that we've already been to all four quadrants). It'd easily tie into DSC season 3 in that maybe some of the Federation's member races joined the new alliance, or maybe humanity and some friends did and the remnants became the V'Draysh.
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Mar 15, 2020 03:36
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poo poo, all that time with "new life and new civilizations" and they barely have a handle on their own. Hubris at it's best. Prime Directive alone can and has been used to justify some pretty nafarious poo poo, all under the geas of impartiality and broadly-defined "meddling". Into the blackened abyss: presumin it was Narek's ship right at the transwarp portal, right after the very specific plot point of the anti-tracker blood boil, seems to point out that Starfleet Intelligence had more than one mole, knowing or unknowing, on the mission. Heck, how long was Picard out before he miraculously woke up in his own drat bed halfway around the world? Or Rios, who was magically available for an off-the-books mission and just happened to have a direct past connection to said mission? Almost seems like someone trying to wrap-up loose ends. SpeakSlow fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Mar 15, 2020 |
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Mar 15, 2020 04:17
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Soji is a traitor to herself and her people as revenge on her dead sister who isn't really dead because of false memories where they fought over who had the top bunk bed as children.
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Mar 15, 2020 04:30
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SpeakSlow posted:poo poo, all that time with "new life and new civilizations" and they barely have a handle on their own. Hubris at it's best. According to Chabon, Narek took a gamble that Soji would use the nearest transwarp apature to try and get home quicker, which the Romulans have relatively well mapped out now thanks to their work on the Artifact, so he parked himself at it and just waited and it paid off spectacularly.
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Mar 15, 2020 04:34
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I feel like half (most?) of the complaints about this are from people apparently forgetting that this is a serialised show. “What was the point of the Borg stuff?” and “why did Rios’ apparently good captain suddenly murder those people?” are clearly dangling threads that - unless the show completely fucks up - will be resolved in future episodes. This is like in Disco S1 when they did the episode introducing the tardigrade and then people on here were shrieking “why the gently caress didn’t they explain the tardigrade?!” for a week. And then the next episode was all about the tardigrade.
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Mar 15, 2020 04:41
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nine-gear crow posted:According to Chabon, Narek took a gamble that Soji would use the nearest transwarp apature to try and get home quicker, which the Romulans have relatively well mapped out now thanks to their work on the Artifact, so he parked himself at it and just waited and it paid off spectacularly. Fair enough!
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Mar 15, 2020 05:22
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Brawnfire posted:Now YOU made me think Captain Alan Partridge. Of the USS Simpleton OH wait no that's captain Andy Partridge Just watched Measure of a Man and The Offspring, very worthwhile given Picard. Also never really appreciated just how arrogant Picard was in TNG really hahaha
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Mar 15, 2020 07:35
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