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military cervix posted:I work in one such lab. We could presumably do the RNA-extraction and run the PCRs easily enough, but I would be extremely concerned with the quality control of us doing such a thing. Being a bioingeniør is a very specialized education for a reason, running consistent medical tests is pretty different from just doing lab research. They apparently are attempting to get an overview of which of the departments employees/student's have a background as bioingeniørs, though. i 100% refuse to believe that you couldn't take a bunch of omics people and train them enough to be effective in a couple of days. i literally do not believe that bioingeniør training is that different from standard lab genetics
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Mar 16, 2020 18:15
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Dirk Pitt posted:So if the WHO is advising testing, why is Sweden saying no testing?
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Mar 16, 2020 18:20
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V. Illych L. posted:i 100% refuse to believe that you couldn't take a bunch of omics people and train them enough to be effective in a couple of days. i literally do not believe that bioingeniør training is that different from standard lab genetics Eh, you might be right. Running one relatively straightforward test is probably within reach. My main experience with this is studying alongside bioingeniørs for my master's, and my impression was that their study was fundamentally very different from my molecular biology-focused bachelors. However, if the false positive/negative changes significantly, which I would say is pretty likely with PCR-based tests, it changes the value of doing tests quite dramatically. At this point it is not really clear to me what is the limiting factor for testing in Norway Does anyone know?
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Mar 16, 2020 18:47
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A Buttery Pastry posted:They want to let the virus run its course and decimate the older native Swedish population, allowing the younger immigrant population to complete their takeover. Or if you prefer the non-right wing conspiracy theory angle; they're afraid of what testing would reveal, so they're going with the "corona can't hurt me if I don't see it" plan. Sweden knows basic economics, which dictates that old and fragile people are a drain on society, and getting rid of them is good for long-term growth. It's basic neoliberalism. What is that about other values than growth? Sounds like some hippie nonsense!
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Mar 16, 2020 19:45
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Dirk Pitt posted:So if the WHO is advising testing, why is Sweden saying no testing? Katt posted:I do get the logic of not testing everyone but at the same time if I do have it. I'd like to be able to inform the people I've been in contact with so they can be careful with other people/old people. evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Mar 16, 2020 |
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Mar 16, 2020 19:52
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BonHair posted:Sweden knows basic economics, which dictates that old and fragile people are a drain on society, and getting rid of them is good for long-term growth. It's basic neoliberalism. My orange envelope says I need to work to age 78 if I want to keep my current wage. Old people had a good run but it's time to go.
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Mar 16, 2020 19:54
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Katt posted:I do get the logic of not testing everyone but at the same time if I do have it. I'd like to be able to inform the people I've been in contact with so they can be careful with other people/old people. It's a capacity problem and they're prioritizing accordingly. https://twitter.com/f_hieronymus/status/1239585781288706048
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Mar 16, 2020 20:17
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MiddleOne posted:It's a capacity problem and they're prioritizing accordingly. Yeah I get it but I'm just stating my feelings and that "just wait it out you'll be fine" isn't comforting. A friends wife might have it (fever, painful breathing, dry cough). He's feeling a bit down (fever dry cough). We have spent time together. I have no symptoms (yet) but I have a co-worker who's wife is immunocompromised with reduced lung capacity from having had cancer. So if he catches it then she will absolutely catch it and then she might die.
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Mar 16, 2020 20:26
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Katt posted:Yeah I get it but I'm just stating my feelings and that "just wait it out you'll be fine" isn't comforting. This is kind of why we should test. Why the gently caress are we going against recommendations from NGO's that are full of experts? I get it cost, but we are at an advantage in that we have our own currency here. People need to know if they have it so they can isolate. The you'll be fine and no antibiotics for you citizen line only goes so far.
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Mar 16, 2020 20:38
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Dirk Pitt posted:
Antibiotics for a virus what? That would not make me a calm citizen at all.
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Mar 16, 2020 23:05
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MiddleOne posted:It's a capacity problem and they're prioritizing accordingly. https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1239582152016224269
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Mar 16, 2020 23:17
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evil_bunnY posted:That dude is swallowing the coolaid. Yes the current strategy is optimized. If you're a moron who's not ordered/stockpiled tests on time. Half the reason SK is doing so well is because they shifted their local capacity to test making on the loving double. Probably a lot easier for SK since they have Samsung Biologics. What company in Sweden have the capacity to churn out these tests in a massive way?
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Mar 17, 2020 00:50
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Tegnell decided that sweden is gonna be the control population with no containment. Makes for a nifty comparison with similar Scandinavian countries when researchers write about covid 19 in 5 years.
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Mar 17, 2020 01:15
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Scandinavian politics: All makt åt Tegnell
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Mar 17, 2020 01:23
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tegnell?
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Mar 17, 2020 01:27
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V. Illych L. posted:tegnell? Sveriges Statsepidemiologi
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Mar 17, 2020 01:38
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Fader Movitz posted:Sveriges Statsepidemiologi och en riktig rövhatt när han var på Socialstyrelsen enligt en vän som haft en hel del med honom att göra
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Mar 17, 2020 02:01
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Academically he have produced papers for the last 30 years within his field, so there should be no doubt on his expertise. Also seems like more of a bureaucrat kind of scientist. And as anyone who have done a PhD will tell you, being good academically doesn’t necessarily translate to being a nice person or a good boss.
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Mar 17, 2020 03:19
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What is the Swedish equivalent of “boomer” and how do I make it a rhyme with a disease or “remover” of some sort?
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Mar 17, 2020 07:06
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teen witch posted:What is the Swedish equivalent of “boomer” and how do I make it a rhyme with a disease or “remover” of some sort? Gråsosse? Cause Swedish social democrats share a number of political characteristics with US republicans, although not political content. The focus on party, ageing voters, a feeling that things were better before modern times (often manifested in this thread), holding your nose and voting for your party (as opposed to the division among center-right), stacking the bureaucracy with party loyalists, party leaders following party line above all. The list goes on. I don’t think people below 30 have a sense of the massive influence S have had on Swedish society. Cardiac fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 07:17
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Cardiac posted:Academically he have produced papers for the last 30 years within his field, so there should be no doubt on his expertise. Also seems like more of a bureaucrat kind of scientist. Publishing articles, even in highly ranked journals, is also not a sign of knowing poo poo about anything, especially practical and policy matters. Ask literally any economist. Go ahead and ask the fake Nobel price winning ones too. I’m not saying that he definitely doesn’t know his poo poo. Just that if you think publishing is a sign of quality of research or knowledge on the authors part, you’re comically naive and possibly also an actual idiot. Anyone can get published, even in the best journals, even with poorly designed experiments, with incredibly sophomoric understanding of method and theory, as long as they know how to write academically, and have a good sense of the journal article form, and most importantly have good networks with editors of journals. That is unfortunately the sad state of academia and publishing today. Probably the WHO has some smart epidemiologists as well, and it kinda goes against their recommendations. From a layman’s perspective, building herd immunity while protecting the weak parts of the population seems hard, if it’s true that that a poo poo ton of young people have it but don’t even notice, as the South Korean vs Italian data suggest.
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Mar 17, 2020 07:39
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Publishing articles, even in highly ranked journals, is also not a sign of knowing poo poo about anything, especially practical and policy matters. Ask literally any economist. Go ahead and ask the fake Nobel price winning ones too. So how many publications do you have? Tegnell have published for 30 years in journals with decent but not super high impact factor. His publishing fits the pattern of an academic who mostly worked as medical doctor and bureaucrat, and published on the side. Saying he is not scientifically competent is clearly wrong. Whether the measures FHM propose are correct is a completely different question. Tegnell is the spokesperson and every decision is in all likelihood based on consensus among the people within FHM.
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Mar 17, 2020 07:58
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evil_bunnY posted:That dude is swallowing the coolaid. Yes the current strategy is optimized. If you're a moron who's not ordered/stockpiled tests on time. Half the reason SK is doing so well is because they shifted their local capacity to test making on the loving double. How is he swallowing the coolaid? We have a lovely preparation because our healthcare system is in a semi-permanent crisis mode even in the best of conditions due to the glory of tax cuts and NPM. He's just stating facts, we do not have the capacity and who knows how long it'll take before we do. This is the state of Stockholms healthcare before Covid-19 started clogging up the emergency wards and ICU's: https://www.dn.se/sthlm/allt-fler-stabslagen-pa-grund-av-vardplatsbrist/ quote:Personalen på Södersjukhuset lämnade på tisdagseftermiddagen in en så kallad 6:6 a-anmälan till Arbetsmiljöverket som är en begäran om att arbetsgivaren vidtar arbetsmiljöåtgärder. Anmälan innehåller även personalens beskrivning av den kaotiska situationen på akutmottagningen under helgen som tvingade sjukhuset i stabsläge. Stockholms Healthcare is still on the budget from last november that effectively demands billion SEK cuts of costs. Even with state financial aid and coordination they're not exactly an organization primed for effectively adapting to these changing circumstances. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 07:59
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We don't have capacity. https://www.dn.se/sthlm/fredrik-testade-positivt-for-corona-och-isolerades-men-provsvaret-var-fel/ quote:Fredrik, 37, testade positivt för det nya coronaviruset och isolerades på Karolinska i Huddinge. Hans vänner, fru och små barn sattes i karantän och hans kollegor fick inte komma till jobbet. Men efter två dygn fick han beskedet: Han har inte corona, provet hade kontaminerats på labbet. It gets worse. quote:Fredrik gör som han blir tillsagd. Han uppsöker privatkliniken igen. Efter en ny bedömning skickas han vidare till akuten på S:t Görans sjukhus på Kungsholmen. Senare ska de hävda att risken för andra patienter varit minimal då han kom in. De ska säga att han behandlades enskilt. I själva verket blir Fredrik sittande i det allmänna väntrummet i en och en halv timme. And even worse. quote:Fredriks prov hade i själva verket blivit kontaminerat på Folkhälsomyndighetens laboratorium, enligt Karin Tegmark Wisell, avdelningschef mikrobiologi på Folkhälsomyndigheten. Virusmolekyler har förts över från ett patientprov till ett annat. Detta fångades upp av kontrollsystemen, som signalerade att proven behövde köras om. Men då en och samma person har ansvar för såväl analys som kontroll missades detta på kvällen. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 08:32
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MiddleOne posted:We don't have capacity. 
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Mar 17, 2020 08:52
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Cardiac posted:So how many publications do you have? Plenty, including in the top ranked journal in my field (small as it is) and I’ve peer reviewed a poo poo ton in a much wider field. I’m not saying that he is wrong, or even that I think he doesn’t know his poo poo. I’m saying using academic publishing as a measure for whether people know their poo poo, it’s loving hilarious and the hallmark of someone who thinks they know how academia works, but actually has no idea, and who is possibly also a dumbshit moron. It’s a a tiny galaxy brain step up from thinking that having a PhD means you’re a naturally gifted genius, when in reality anyone can do it, if they can get funding. It just means you’re able to worked in a structured way for 3 years and the depression/stress/anxiety/divorce didn’t make you give up. I understand that some people cope with imposter syndrome by cultivating a smug a feeling of intellectual superiority into their identity though. No posters named, no posters forgotten.
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Mar 17, 2020 08:54
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MiddleOne posted:We don't have capacity. 
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Mar 17, 2020 09:00
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Fader Movitz posted:Scandinavian politics: All makt åt Tegnell We'll see each other in Nangijala.
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Mar 17, 2020 10:17
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Swedish secondary and post-secondary schools have finally been switched to distance education, starting tomorrow. I can kind of understand the reasoning about not closing primary schools (forcing everyone to babysit has tons of complications), but I don't understand why they didn't do this earlier given that several campuses had confirmed cases last week.
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Mar 17, 2020 10:48
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Cardiac posted:What company in Sweden have the capacity to churn out these tests in a massive way?
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Mar 17, 2020 10:53
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Alhazred posted:We'll see each other in Nangijala. Could we skip right to Nangilima and get it over with?
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Mar 17, 2020 10:55
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MiddleOne posted:We don't have capacity.
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Mar 17, 2020 11:07
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As a young person with no living elderly/sick relatives and no political or financial capital I keep switching between feelings of outrage, bewilderment and utter nihilism at how the people in power are handling this. It's suicidal.
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Mar 17, 2020 11:31
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Heads up, SJ is planning on cancelling trips starting today. Some trips will go, but I don’t think they’re updating as fast as they should be because, well, this is SJ. time to call work and see how this’ll go over. Just do work from home entirely not this every other day poo poo oh my god.
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Mar 17, 2020 12:39
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evil_bunnY posted:I'm not arguing we do, but if you don't and you're not frantically working on that instead of loving dilly-dallying about whether to keep people home when literally the rest of scandinavia is on lockdown you're criminally loving negligent. I don't even know any loving old people here and it makes me steam. Take a deep breath. No quarantine measure is going to make testing capacity grow faster, it'll take whatever time it needs to take. Mercrom posted:As a young person with no living elderly/sick relatives and no political or financial capital I keep switching between feelings of outrage, bewilderment and utter nihilism at how the people in power are handling this. It's suicidal. We'll only know that in retrospect. Stop panicking.
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Mar 17, 2020 12:41
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If any of you actually want to help I'd advise contacting your local municipality and signing up to a temp worker in elderly care. We're extremely, really dangerously, understaffed nation-wide as of Wednesdays new recommendations and we're the only thing keeping the elderly out of hospitals. Even if you have another job you can work evenings and weekends, introductions are short (typically 3 workdays + short delegation course) and more people are sorely needed.
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Mar 17, 2020 12:45
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MiddleOne posted:Take a deep breath. No quarantine measure is going to make testing capacity grow faster, it'll take whatever time it needs to take. MiddleOne posted:If any of you actually want to help evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 14:02
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evil_bunnY posted:There's also loads of local neighborhood help networks starting to show up to bring supplies to vulnerable groups. Hi plz link!!!
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Mar 17, 2020 14:14
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teen witch posted:Hi plz link!!! MiddleOne posted:We'll only know that in retrospect. Stop panicking. For those reading along: Median incubation from contact to symptoms is 5 days. 99% of cases show symptoms within 14 days. If you shelter for 14 days, what do you think happens differently than when everyone goes to work because their bosses are using FHM guidelines to keep them coming. Do you think Italy/France/Norway/Denmark are shutting down because they're panicking? evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 14:16
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The part that makes me really loving angry is not when or how we close schools but that politicians act shocked and concerned when they hear we're not prepared for this. These fuckers have been cutting down on everything the last 30 years. Cutting funding and NPM and just in time for hospitals, completely gutted the military and civil defence. End of history liberalism seems to have given most politicians brain damage.
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Mar 17, 2020 15:14
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