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GABA ghoul posted:The average age in rural areas is something like 10 years above cities. There are also very few immigrants and education level is relatively low. It's not exactly a mystery. literally all of these things are due to the long-standing policy of abandoning the countryside since the eighties lol
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Mar 16, 2020 21:19
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Cat Mattress posted:That's a gross and borderline racist generalization. Still, the mere fact that you're forced to interact with/see more people in a city seems to make city dwellers more tolerant. V. Illych L. posted:literally all of these things are due to the long-standing policy of abandoning the countryside since the eighties lol
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Mar 16, 2020 21:37
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V. Illych L. posted:literally all of these things are due to the long-standing policy of abandoning the countryside since the eighties lol You can spin it however you like, as an immigrant, I can tell you that nothing but the end of a rifle could ever force me to live in a German village. The amount of bigotry and nativism creeps the everliving poo poo out of me. At best, you are always just "one of the good ones". It's downright oppressive. We have huge labor shortages in rural areas all across the country and have had a lot of programs to try to attract desperate young people from other EU countries and the results are always the same. They stay for a couple of months, get depressed and horrified and run for the hills. It doesn't work out. Something like 67% of young people in OECD countries go to university. It's the last somewhat reliable chance at social mobility left in this society and if you grew up in a village you move away to study and never return. Cause why the gently caress would you?
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Mar 16, 2020 21:50
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I live in a fairly rural area and there's been a definite increase in diversity compared to even a decade ago. The nearest city is highly diverse too though, and a large slice of it is second generation migrants moving out of said city for somewhere more out of the way while renting out the old family home (sometimes to new first generation migrants who they look down on), so many are probably voting for the fiscally lovely parties.GABA ghoul posted:nothing but the end of a rifle could ever force me to live in a German village. 
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Mar 16, 2020 22:00
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How would an EU border closure work in Ireland? The UK is out, so there have to be some border controls established on the North Irish border, but does the Good Friday agreement even take into account a possibility like the current emergency?
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Mar 16, 2020 22:19
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Is there anywhere where countryfolk aren't massively skewed ethnically/racially towards the majority, relative to cities? It's not about the people as such either, it's the social dynamic that filters a certain type of person out of rural life and into the cities, a dynamic that rarely drives anyone the other way. It's basically "Want to try something new and hang out with unfamiliar people, or stay with the life and people you know?" The former will skew younger and more open minded, the latter older and less so, and the mere act of taking young people out of the countryside makes the countryside more conservative, in aggregate. Obviously there are people in cities who fall into the second type too, so it's not like cities are a progressive wonderland, but the first type probably just "trade up" and go for an even bigger city. i mean i'm talking from a norwegian perspective here but in the sixties and seventies we had educated young people moving from the cities to smaller towns etc and settling down, it's eminently achievable if one enacts appropriate policy society is what we make it, it is not governed by immutable forces beyond the ken of mortals
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Mar 16, 2020 22:23
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Mokotow posted:How would an EU border closure work in Ireland? The UK is out, so there have to be some border controls established on the North Irish border, but does the Good Friday agreement even take into account a possibility like the current emergency? I think it's actually a lockdown of the Schengen borders and Ireland is not part of the Schengen area due to the border with the North.
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Mar 16, 2020 22:23
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Is there anywhere where countryfolk aren't massively skewed ethnically/racially towards the majority, relative to cities? It's not about the people as such either, it's the social dynamic that filters a certain type of person out of rural life and into the cities, a dynamic that rarely drives anyone the other way. It's basically "Want to try something new and hang out with unfamiliar people, or stay with the life and people you know?" The former will skew younger and more open minded, the latter older and less so, and the mere act of taking young people out of the countryside makes the countryside more conservative, in aggregate. Obviously there are people in cities who fall into the second type too, so it's not like cities are a progressive wonderland, but the first type probably just "trade up" and go for an even bigger city. Again, my rural experience is that the folks around here are: -old peasants who lived there all their life; a small and dwindling category -old hippies who embraced rural life in the 70s -young hipsters who started making artisanal beer / cheese / whatever other local products -weirdos who joined "the Community", a sort of local center for people who can't fit in, but that's also vaguely cultish, I mean the founder of that thing is kinda sketchy, but it still provides a roof and some food to extremely unemployable people -immigrants, which are subdivided into several subgroups: --Moroccan workers (shopkeeper, plumber, construction worker, etc.) --Dutch and British pensioners (some Belgians and Swiss, too, but it's mostly Dutch and British around here) --Japanese, for some reason. There aren't that many of them in the absolute but given the small size of the local population, they're still statistically above the national average around here.
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Mar 16, 2020 22:58
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V. Illych L. posted:i mean i'm talking from a norwegian perspective here but in the sixties and seventies we had educated young people moving from the cities to smaller towns etc and settling down, it's eminently achievable if one enacts appropriate policy You are trying to generalize from one specific experience 60 years ago that happened in a radically different society. If there is ever going to be a societal shift toward more rural life it won't be a reactionary process moving society back to the lifestyle of housewifes, church and harvest festivals. It will be something new and different, in new places.
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Mar 16, 2020 22:59
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The semi-rural place where I live is the one with a agro coop, a day care coop, a banking coop, a fishing coop, the water company is owned by the district, the aldermanship as been solidly communist for the last 40 years.it turns out when you don't tell rural people to eat a bag of dicks, they naturally organize into things that benefit the local community, who knew?
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Mar 16, 2020 23:12
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V. Illych L. posted:i mean i'm talking from a norwegian perspective here but in the sixties and seventies we had educated young people moving from the cities to smaller towns etc and settling down, it's eminently achievable if one enacts appropriate policy um. . . i tried to look for the statistics about this, and they seem to show the exact opposite. This world bank data shows urbanization continuing apace in Norway through the sixties and seventies. Maybe this depends a bit on the definition of urban, like by whatever definition is used here, those small towns might count as urban. It does seem to slow for a while but it definitely doesn't reverse. I'm not really sure what if anything people are arguing about so I don't have an opinion on if rural areas are good or bad. I just like talking about demographics and statistics.
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Mar 16, 2020 23:36
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I assume the flattening of the line is people moving back, but not at a rate to counteract the general flow to the city.
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Mar 16, 2020 23:38
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Squalid posted:um. . . i tried to look for the statistics about this, and they seem to show the exact opposite. This world bank data shows urbanization continuing apace in Norway through the sixties and seventies. Maybe this depends a bit on the definition of urban, like by whatever definition is used here, those small towns might count as urban. It does seem to slow for a while but it definitely doesn't reverse. when people move to the city to study and move back the curve is flat
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Mar 17, 2020 01:05
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also what counts as a city is extremely generous in norway, we have 'cities' with like 3000 people
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Mar 17, 2020 01:06
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now I'm wondering if the nineteen-seventies slow down in Norwegian rural decline is related to the development of the North Sea oil fields. Certainly if you work on a boat there's no incentive to live in an expensive city. Resource booms have often been associated with booms in local rural population, as for example in the Venezuelan Amazon gold rush since 2013 or in the development of the North Dakota shale oil in the United States since two-thousand something.
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Mar 17, 2020 01:27
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in the rather extensive norwegian literature on the subject it is generally agreed to have been the result of decentralising policies combined with loan redemptions and housing subsidies etc, driven by a domestic political situation, which drove it but i'm sure your ten minutes of googling and idle speculation gives you a superior vantage
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Mar 17, 2020 01:30
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V. Illych L. posted:in the rather extensive norwegian literature on the subject it is generally agreed to have been the result of decentralising policies combined with loan redemptions and housing subsidies etc, driven by a domestic political situation, which drove it what was the motive for this policies? was it an accident or an intended effect of policies pushed by parties representing rural interests?
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Mar 17, 2020 01:43
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Squalid posted:what was the motive for this policies? was it an accident or an intended effect of policies pushed by parties representing rural interests? the latter labour, the christian democrats and the farmers'/centre party were competing for these voters and so their interests were very prominent - they were the mythical Swing Voters in latter years labour has been almost totally taken over by public employees' interests and these voters are kept in retainer as part of the semi-formal coalition between labour and the centre party. the realignment was pretty explicit on the part of the legendary labour prime minister gro harlem brundtland, who 'stole the conservatives' clothes while they were bathing' by just grabbing a huge chunk of their urban voter base, especially women
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Mar 17, 2020 02:03
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on a broader level, it made sense so long as norway retained a sizable industry which employed a lot of people. in the post-war years, labour built its dominance partially through exploiting hydroelectric energy to build energy-intensive industries such as aluminium which could be run at advantageous rates in relatively remote locations - they wanted mass factories to expand their natural voter groups. as productivity demanded the death of mass industry employment they had to look elsewhere, and through neoliberalism and state feminism found a whole new niche. those communities were basically one-party towns for a long time, but their surrounding areas were very much up for competition, and these days labour is in full retreat over accession to ACER, roughly speaking the single market for electricity, which was deeply unpopular in these places
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Mar 17, 2020 02:10
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Looking at some of the literature J.C. Hansen suggested in 1989 that the oil crisis may be related to the change in trend, although I couldn't find his article online and am just going off someone else's summary. Universally though more importance is attributed to the expansion in subsidies and public sector employment in small towns you described, as well sub-urbanization. This Norwegian trend has been compared and related to contemporary demographic trends in the United States and Britain
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Mar 17, 2020 02:48
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Antifa Poltergeist posted:The semi-rural place where I live is the one with a agro coop, a day care coop, a banking coop, a fishing coop, the water company is owned by the district, the aldermanship as been solidly communist for the last 40 years.it turns out when you don't tell rural people to eat a bag of dicks, they naturally organize into things that benefit the local community, who knew? Eat a bag of dicks. Sincerely, the benign and enlightened city dwellers. Edit: FYI the small town near me has the highest % of immigrants in Finland except the capital itself and it's like a percentage difference. Bosnians, Vietnamese, Moroccans, Iraqis etc etc. I remember they started showing up when I was a kid, because old houses where previous owners had died started being lived in by various immigrants. My parents noted that house there where old Edgar used to live was now housing a muslim family and they farmed sheep. Stuff like that, the impression here is immigrants saved the local countryside by preventing it from emptying. And now every day I leave the kids off at preschool I can hear multiple languages, some of their teachers are the children of immigrants who came here in the 80s and 90s, one of them have taught my son a finger counting verse in bosnian that he loves to recite. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 07:02
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The German austerity morons are back again. Right after the Corona crisis, it's time to start raising interest rates; what's recovery precious?quote:Some German ex-politicians — including former ministers Peer Steinbrück (finance) and Wolfgang Clement (economy), former European Commissioner Günther Oettinger, plus economist Hans-Werner Sinn — called for the ECB to start raising interest rates in an op-ed for FAZ. It's loving Trichet all over again - let's hope they're roundly ignored this time. Article here but paywalled, if anyone has access to FAZ would be cool to read: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/ezb-nach-corona-krise-fuer-eine-neue-geldpolitik-16679542.html
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Mar 17, 2020 09:38
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Junior G-man posted:The German austerity morons are back again. Right after the Corona crisis, it's time to start raising interest rates; what's recovery precious? Yes, these all should be fired into the sun, but I think (hope?) that they won't have any pull with the ECB. Do you think Lagarde will raise interest rates now? When everybody else is lowering theirs?
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Mar 17, 2020 09:46
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Torrannor posted:Yes, these all should be fired into the sun, but I think (hope?) that they won't have any pull with the ECB. Do you think Lagarde will raise interest rates now? When everybody else is lowering theirs? They're talking about the post-corona economy but the Germans have a lot of pull in the ECB, and this kind of perma-austerity thinking is rife throughout the ECB as an institutional philosophy.
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Mar 17, 2020 09:52
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Junior G-man posted:They're talking about the post-corona economy but the Germans have a lot of pull in the ECB, and this kind of perma-austerity thinking is rife throughout the ECB as an institutional philosophy. pls dont hate on our religion thank
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Mar 17, 2020 10:25
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Junior G-man posted:The German austerity morons are back again. Right after the Corona crisis, it's time to start raising interest rates; what's recovery precious? It's good to know that after a pandemic-induced recession wipes out the weak gains European economies made after 2008 they will be sure to engineer a way to make it even worse and longer.
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Mar 17, 2020 10:30
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Haramstufe Rot posted:pls dont hate on our religion thank schwarze Null, Schwarze nein, Profit unser, Schaden dein the new national anthem
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Mar 17, 2020 10:32
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Imagine being obsessed with a Schwarze Null during a pandemic. PROFIT OVER PEOPLE
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Mar 17, 2020 10:54
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Le price stabilitie.
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Mar 17, 2020 12:15
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EUR/USD seems to be crashing now, I guess to the closing of borders, ECB response, FED cuts etc https://twitter.com/tracyalloway/status/1239841601435783173?s=20 This seems to be bad although I don't understand it  Raising interest rates would be the cherry on top? Are our EUR savings doomed?
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Mar 17, 2020 12:25
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Deutsche Bank has been bankrupt for a while, but it was in everyone's interest to pretend it wasn't. It's now become impossible to keep pretending. Deutsche Bank has to release their yearly numbers this Friday. I've been greatly anticipating this since before COVID-19 was a thing. Next week the bottom is going to drop out of the stock market. If it even holds that long.
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Mar 17, 2020 12:59
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How the gently caress do you bankrupt a loving bank. People literally give you money for fucks sake.
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Mar 17, 2020 13:01
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OwlFancier posted:How the gently caress do you bankrupt a loving bank. People literally give you money for fucks sake. Well, if you're one of the banks that continues to do the riskiest loving things over and over again... It's darkly hilarious that the so-called "German" bank is actually the one being wildly risky and irresponsible with its money, given the German populace's predilections. There's some good Mark Blyth bits about this in his famous youtube talks. I mean, Deutsche literally decided to buy a premium price casino in Las Vegas located miles off the strip. With predictable results.
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Mar 17, 2020 13:11
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Are germans supposed to be very frugal or something? I don't know any german stereotypes other than not funny which is extremely wrong imo.
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Mar 17, 2020 13:16
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OwlFancier posted:How the gently caress do you bankrupt a loving bank. People literally give you money for fucks sake. You've heard of too big to fail? Welcome to too big to bail.
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Mar 17, 2020 13:16
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OwlFancier posted:Are germans supposed to be very frugal or something? I don't know any german stereotypes other than not funny which is extremely wrong imo. German pensioners insist on saving most of their pensions.
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Mar 17, 2020 13:18
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OwlFancier posted:How the gently caress do you bankrupt a loving bank. People literally give you money for fucks sake. You do realise the gains in retail banking just aren't high enough and start making bigger and riskier investments and oh oops, turns out risky investments have higher returns because they are more likely to collapse. Banks fail because in capitalism there can never be high enough returns so we must make riskier and riskier investments until oops we've got a bubble and ooops we've propped it up for a while and it's still going to burst and the fallout will be bad but hey, we're too big to fail so who gives a gently caress?
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Mar 17, 2020 13:21
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forkboy84 posted:You do realise the gains in retail banking just aren't high enough and start making bigger and riskier investments and oh oops, turns out risky investments have higher returns because they are more likely to collapse. The reason the banks did this was because the euro which caused all the different countries to have the same interest as germany. Before the euro you could lend to the greeks and they paid 30% (iirc) interest because they had defaulted before, It was a risk but you got paid for it. The greeks also couldn't afford to borrow too much because of it. In a way the system sorta worked. Enter the euro and everyone in the eurozone gets treated like Germany and the greeks got real cheap credit, and the banks lost countries to lend to at high interest. So instead they just decided to lend shitloads more money to compensate for getting less interest.
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Mar 17, 2020 13:34
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His Divine Shadow posted:Enter the euro and everyone in the eurozone gets treated like Germany and the greeks got real cheap credit, and the banks lost countries to lend to at high interest. So instead they just decided to lend shitloads more money to compensate for getting less interest. And then the question is, did they not see this coming because greed and thr shine of the euro or did they presume bailouts? Are markets stupid or do they just encourage greed? In any case, an indictment of the rational markets BS.
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Mar 17, 2020 13:42
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Dawncloack posted:Are markets stupid or do they just encourage greed? yes
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Mar 17, 2020 13:43
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