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Kanos posted:The infamous "Char bribes Federation officials with Nazi Gold" scene in CCA occurs specifically because the Federation is scrabbling to find money to fund exorbitant social welfare and reconstruction projects in the colonies despite the global economy, population, and environment being loving shattered and ruined by 15 years of genocide-level warfare. Selling off an old derelict colony hulk to Char in exchange for a desperately needed cash injection only makes sense. Adaneur Paraya points out in the scene where he's arguing with Bright about this that Char flat out forced their hand in this by threatening to start destroying colony cylinders if the Federation didn't sell Axis to Neo Zeon. Bright asserts that Char would never do that in response, but while he might know that, the Federation have no reason to take the word of one man who kind of knows Char when so much is at risk. I'm not even sure he's right, honestly, because Char's Counterattack Char seems like he might have actually done it, when push came to shove. It's also worth pointing out that the Federation weren't just selling Axis for the sake of selling Axis and getting some money in exchange; they seem to have sold it specifically with the intent of trying to stop Char's actions from boiling over in to yet another revolt over Spacenoid independence. They didn't just sell him Axis, they sold it to him at a treaty during which he was specifically required to make his navy disband and where they seemed to think he wanted Axis as more livable space to expand his new nation and not as any kind of weapon. You cannot sign a treaty with anything but another nation, so terming it as a treaty is explicitly recognizing Sweetwater as an independent nation by the very act of doing so. They thought he was keeping his word too, because after Char's speech about how previous Zeon entities have been terrible but he's going to take the Earth out of the equation, there's a brief scene of a Federation assembly member talking to a ship captain, during which a fake version of the speech can be heard in the background. A fake version where Char is congratulating Zeon on having achieved their objectives and saying it's sad they are disbanding, but that the cause is worthwhile or something. Incidentally, the same scene has the assembly member say that the Federation thinks Londo Bell are only being so aggressive in pursuing Char because they're agitating for a fight and that they think Londo Bell are becoming a new Titan's style organization. Which explains why they are so limited in their authority and action during the film. I'm not entirely sure that it was the intention because the Federation in a lot of other Tomino works is so clearly a major source of problems, and the protagonists so against them, but I actually find the portrayal of the Federation in Char's Counterattack to be one of the most sympathetic and even-handed in Tomino's oeuvre. If you count the actions of the Federation pilot's at the end of the film, it's probably their single best showing in the franchise really, at least in my opinion. ImpAtom posted:Thus why Bright's response was "yeah sure let the loving kid pilot the Gundam" That sounds more like ZZ Bright. Unicorn Bright is less "yeah sure, just let the kid do it" and more "let the kid do it; it's for the best". He's pretty well aware of the potential for kids to change a conflict at that point, and knows that trying to force them through violence or intimidation is less successful than just working with them and guiding them to do better. Junkozeyne posted:The point is the Federation is an colonial power with all the baggage that comes with that. It is inherintly linked to Earth and after all the damage done to the planet they need the colonies but the colonies don't really need Earth anymore. So they can't ever really allow the sides to be independent They absolutely could, and by the time of Victory basically do; it'd just mean they're no longer the power on the world stage (or solar stage I guess). Which at least some of the people in the Federation would be loathe to do, but by the time of Victory they're seemingly so tired and broke they're happy to do that just to maintain some relevance.
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Mar 17, 2020 14:25
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The idea that the Federation actually wanted Char's gold for welfare services is undermined by Quess's introductory scene, where it's revealed that she and her dad live in a giant, colonial fortress-mansion right next to the slum her friends are from. Tomino characters will straight-up, open-faced lie about their motives, remember. Pay more attention to what their private lives are like, and to the assholes joking about population control while queuing for the luxury evac shuttles. They weren't greedily eyeing those shiny bars because they were fantasising about how many orphans they'd be able to feed.
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Mar 17, 2020 19:05
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Darth Walrus posted:Pay more attention to what their private lives are like, and to the assholes joking about population control while queuing for the luxury evac shuttles. They weren't greedily eyeing those shiny bars because they were fantasising about how many orphans they'd be able to feed. You mean like the "luxury" evac shuttles Adaneur had to bump a family living in a slum off to get to the treaty? Which is the only shuttle transport we see in the film so far as I recall. Yea, I'm sure that was a real luxury alright. He was taking public transport to that shuttle despite the fact he was living in a mansion, which if anything, helps rub in just how desperate the Federation has gotten. Lots of politicians live in big houses, both in reality and in Gundam, and just the fact they do doesn't mean every deal they cut is inherently built on greed or corruption and that everything they say is a lie; especially when there's other evidence pointing to it not being a lie anyway. tsob fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Mar 17, 2020 |
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Mar 17, 2020 19:37
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All you pigs go down 
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Mar 17, 2020 19:53
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Darth Walrus posted:The idea that the Federation actually wanted Char's gold for welfare services is undermined by Quess's introductory scene, where it's revealed that she and her dad live in a giant, colonial fortress-mansion right next to the slum her friends are from. Tomino characters will straight-up, open-faced lie about their motives, remember. You know it can be both, right? It's possible for a politician to enrich themselves while also giving a nominal poo poo about improving the lives of their constituency; basically every major politician in the system will eventually make some sort of money due to their influence. I would even argue that's typically the natural state of affairs in basically every form of democracy and/or republic that the world has ever seen, even the good ones.
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Mar 17, 2020 20:49
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I still can't get over how the movie starts with Quess being basically kidnapped by her dad and her friends being left to die and people still hate her so much.
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Mar 17, 2020 20:51
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It's also mentioned that he's taking the civilian shuttle because its meant to be a secret hush hush thing.
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Mar 17, 2020 22:39
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Is it? Closest I can find skimming through those scenes is Quess asking why they didn't take a military shuttle, and Adaneur saying they can't because the military has been mobilized so it's safer to just take a civilian shuttle. Which ends up meeting the Ra Calium after a nearby battle, with Adaneur diverting the Ra Calium to Londenion. At no point does he take any kind of private or luxury shuttle and he's referred to as Vice-Minister several times, so he's presumably someone fairly high up the chain (though he could conceivably just be the vice-minister of a specific area, like commerce, foreign relations or whatever).
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Mar 17, 2020 23:39
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MonsieurChoc posted:I still can't get over how the movie starts with Quess being basically kidnapped by her dad and her friends being left to die and people still hate her so much. You can have bad things happen to you and still be a terrible person. Worse, she's not a fun terrible person like Char or Rezin. She's just obnoxious, getting mad that Amuro wants to gently caress his appropriately aged girlfriend who he's known for years instead of dropping everything to indulge a teenager's crush. And then she prevents Amuro from just doing his job and saving the day. She's got a bad hand, and Char manipulates the hell out of her as soon as he gets the chance, but even Kamille handles his family circumstances with more maturity and decorum, and his response to having his name insulted was punch cops, steal a Mobile Suit, and join a terrorist organization. (A terrorist organization eventually lead by Char Aznable, even!)
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Mar 18, 2020 00:25
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It's pretty funny when char and amuro talk about quess while murdering each other and they are both like "huh, so that's what her deal was". Quess may be annoying but it is still worthwhile to show how callous the veterans have become. 0079 Amuro wouldn't have just shrugged it off like that.
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Mar 18, 2020 01:03
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Junkozeyne posted:It's pretty funny when char and amuro talk about quess while murdering each other and they are both like "huh, so that's what her deal was". Amuro knows what her deal is though; he's literally the one who tells Char what her deal is. Char is the only one surprised by it. Also, I'll never get why people think Amuro was under some kind of obligation to guide Quess. People do realize he was a military soldier in the midst of a mission to stop a war, right? Like, he has other things on his mind. Is he just supposed to put the whole "stop a war" thing on hold so he can mentor her? Try to fit in mentoring her around it, so that he can't actually fully commit to or concentrate on stopping the war? She wasn't even just looking for a mentor anyway; she was looking for a father figure. Amuro was happy to include her when showing Hathaway around Londenion on his time off, even though she is just some kid that his friend's child knows. If all it was about was needing a mentor, then it's not like he couldn't do it after stopping the war anyway, when there's less urgency. It's more of a tragedy of circumstance than indictment of their personalities, or that Amuro grew callous as he grew older. At least, to me. Amuro became the adult who has to deal with a situation that had come out of his own generation's attempt to fix the previous generation's problems, and in doing so was helping create a new generation of kids who inherit the problems of his generation. He didn't have time to help her, just like his dad didn't have time to help him. Both were trying to do so in the way they thought best though, Tem by creating a weapon that would end the war sooner and Amuro by hunting down the guy creating the conflict and stopping it at the source. Amuro also tries to help Hathaway in a much more direct fashion a few times, including advising him not to go out in to an active battlefield to try and change her mind, because it'll probably just result in him getting killed. Which it almost did, if not for the fact Quess pushed him out of the way of the missile at the cost of her own life. Basically repeating the Lalah thing. Amuro is not really callous to what's going on around him in Char's Counterattack, and he's definitely not ignorant of it, he's just not a saint or capable of doing everything asked of him at the same time. He's a soldier, and he wants to stop Char because Char is a very clear and present danger, but that's also a huge thing all on it's own and so other things fall by the wayside in comparison. Including his relationship with Chan to some degree, since it's strained at times during the film when Amuro admits he's ready to give up his life to stop Char. tsob fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Mar 18, 2020 |
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Mar 18, 2020 01:23
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CCA is a really interesting turnaround on the "STUPID ADULTS!!!" line of thinking, since one of CCA's basic thesis statements is that without any guidance or help the next generation is going to turn out immensely hosed up.
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Mar 18, 2020 01:54
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Kanos posted:CCA is a really interesting turnaround on the "STUPID ADULTS!!!" line of thinking, since one of CCA's basic thesis statements is that without any guidance or help the next generation is going to turn out immensely hosed up. I wouldn't say that. They are stupid kids but stupid kids forced into a position they shouldn't be and manipulated by people they shouldn't be. Teenagers are stupid and it turns out giving them a 30 foot war machine and putting them into insanely stressful situations while they are also developing psychic powers does not actually work for anyone.
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Mar 18, 2020 02:22
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And then you get to Victory and the older generations sacrifing themselves so the younger generation can have a chance.
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Mar 18, 2020 02:42
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ImpAtom posted:Teenagers are stupid and it turns out giving them a 30 foot war machine and putting them into insanely stressful situations while they are also developing psychic powers does not actually work for anyone. I mean, it definitely worked for Amuro, Kamille and Judau. So anyone is probably an overstatement. They might not have enjoyed it, and there were certainly better ways for things to shake out, but it can still work for some people regardless. It doesn't work out so well (as much as surviving horrific circumstances can be called "well") for most though, sure.
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Mar 18, 2020 02:55
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tsob posted:I mean, it definitely worked for Amuro, Kamille and Judau. So anyone is probably an overstatement. They might not have enjoyed it, and there were certainly better ways for things to shake out, but it can still work for some people regardless. It doesn't work out so well (as much as surviving horrific circumstances can be called "well") for most though, sure. "Worked" is an extremely strong word there considering one ended up involved in multiple wars and ended up dying relatively young, one got literally brain damaged by an evil psychic and only slowly recovered, and one hosed off to Jupiter because he was so done with the Earth. I wouldn't say it is a good end for any of them. Amuro comes the closest for being a functional adult the last time we see him but still.
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Mar 18, 2020 03:02
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ImpAtom posted:I wouldn't say that. They are stupid kids but stupid kids forced into a position they shouldn't be and manipulated by people they shouldn't be. Teenagers are stupid and it turns out giving them a 30 foot war machine and putting them into insanely stressful situations while they are also developing psychic powers does not actually work for anyone. Nobody actively gave Hathaway a robot(he stole one in the heat of battle), and Quess was put in a position where she was easy prey for Char's manipulations specifically because the adults in her life basically ignored her. If, say, Quess had an actual loving and understanding relationship with her father, it would mean she wouldn't be easy prey for a slickster like Char telling her exactly the things she wanted to hear. Similarly, a huge amount of Hathaway's disillusionment and rebelliousness(which ultimately leads to him doing things like sneaking onto the Ra Calium prior to the battle and stealing a Jegan to chase Quess) are due to resentment at Bright basically being a non-entity for his entire life. Quess and Hathaway both end up in the situation where they got in giant robots and did what they did specifically because they had no guidance or role models in their lives. Kanos fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Mar 18, 2020 |
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Mar 18, 2020 03:06
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ImpAtom posted:"Worked" is an extremely strong word there considering one ended up involved in multiple wars and ended up dying relatively young, one got literally brain damaged by an evil psychic and only slowly recovered, and one hosed off to Jupiter because he was so done with the Earth. I wouldn't say it is a good end for any of them. Amuro comes the closest for being a functional adult the last time we see him but still. "Worked" is anything where they come out the other side alive and can actually grow up given your original wording and that applies to all three protagonists, even if it took a year or so for Kamille to recover. Amuro died more than a decade later in a different war, because he became a soldier later in life. Which many people in much better circumstances do as well. Not only did all three survive their experiences, but all three were instrumental in stopping a massive war that would probably have gone much worse for others without their efforts, so it definitely worked out well for those other people. Also, what do you mean "closest to a functional adult"? Amuro had a job, a purpose, a steady relationship and friends? If he's not a functioning adult, then no one in Gundam (or most anime, really) is and your standards for it are so high that almost no-one is a functional adult in reality either apparently.
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Mar 18, 2020 03:33
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Kanos posted:Nobody actively gave Hathaway a robot(he stole one in the heat of battle), and Quess was put in a position where she was easy prey for Char's manipulations specifically because the adults in her life basically ignored her. No, Quess ended up in those circumstances because she, of her own free will, prevented Amuro from doing his job and just shooting Char dead. Char didn't do poo poo for that first step. At that point, Char didn't know Quess existed. Sure, if she had been less messed up, maybe she would have made better choices. But the biggest jump was on her. As for Amuro, the bit that I find most interesting in CCA is a talk with Chan where she says he's being cold... and then she says it's notable when that happens, because he usually isn't. She knows Amuro as a kind, good man who sometimes gets cold and distant (because PTSD and Actual Ghosts) rather than Amuro being cold and distant as a default. Similarly, I was a bit surprised by Hathaway's comments on Bright being a good dad, if not perfect. It fits him, but it's less smooth a fit with the themes of the older generation making the problems for the younger one. (Speaking of the older generation, Revil's death is still one of the worst things to happen to the Federation. The bit in the Origin where he talks about Newtypes is a pretty big break from the Fed's later policy lines.)
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Mar 18, 2020 04:10
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chiasaur11 posted:No, Quess ended up in those circumstances because she, of her own free will, prevented Amuro from doing his job and just shooting Char dead. Char didn't do poo poo for that first step. At that point, Char didn't know Quess existed. Are we really going to try to pin the mantle of reasonable agency and responsibility on a 13 year old girl(who is also a relatively powerful newtype, just for extra brain craziness)? The entire point is that these kids might not make these awful decisions in general if there were adult figures in their formative years helping and guiding them.
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Mar 18, 2020 04:44
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chiasaur11 posted:No, Quess ended up in those circumstances because she, of her own free will, prevented Amuro from doing his job and just shooting Char dead. Char didn't do poo poo for that first step. At that point, Char didn't know Quess existed. An alternate timeline where Revil lives would be very different.
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Mar 18, 2020 05:31
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I feel like Quess isn't all that different to Kamille starting out, she's just in circumstances that make "I'm a kid who can tell things aren't working, I'm gonna get in a robot" not work because the tone and scope of the war that's going on are so different. Obviously they're not 1-to-1, but there's similarities there.
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Mar 18, 2020 09:28
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1st Stage Midboss posted:I feel like Quess isn't all that different to Kamille starting out, she's just in circumstances that make "I'm a kid who can tell things aren't working, I'm gonna get in a robot" not work because the tone and scope of the war that's going on are so different. Obviously they're not 1-to-1, but there's similarities there. Kamille had mentor and carer figures who took him under their wing and mitigated his stupid rear end in a top hat behavior so that it didn't get him killed with a quickness. Fa, Emma, and Quattro were all anchoring forces that helped shape Kamille in a positive direction(albeit with a lot of slapping, because it's Zeta and in Zeta slapping is a way of saying hello).
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Mar 18, 2020 10:25
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Kanos posted:Kamille had mentor and carer figures who took him under their wing and mitigated his stupid rear end in a top hat behavior so that it didn't get him killed with a quickness. Fa, Emma, and Quattro were all anchoring forces that helped shape Kamille in a positive direction(albeit with a lot of slapping, because it's Zeta and in Zeta slapping is a way of saying hello). I'd say Kamille not starting as (as much of) a poo poo also helps. In the first episodes, Kamille shows reluctance to kill, has clear moral principles, and is consciously trying to find the right thing. Kamille is an impulsive, violent, socially maladjusted, kind of sexist, and generally difficult-to-be-around bundle of rage, but he's not just that. Kamille repeatedly shows empathy for others, even early on, and demonstrates a decent moral compass under the anger issues. (Which is very good, since Fa's a peer, Emma's useless as a parental figure and Char at his best is still kind of less than useless at it. ) Quess, meanwhile, primarily cares about Quess. When Kamille sees one of his many, many crushes is into someone else, he gets sulky and vanishes into his room, because he's an idiot teenager, but he doesn't take it out on the other people involved. (Just bystanders, and even then, mostly in a loud sulk way where he mainly wants them to leave him alone.) Quess, meanwhile, loudly complains when a decorated war hero doesn't immediately abandon his girlfriend to dote on her. Kamille tries to deal with the contradictions of his moral code ("Some people have to be stopped, even if it means resorting to violence" Vs. "Violence is wrong" Vs. "This guy just said I had a girl's name! Fucker's gonna pay!") Kamille also expresses serious doubts about joining a terrorist group even though he's long believed in their cause since, well, killing people. Meanwhile, Quess saves public enemy number 1 on nothing but him saying "People suck!", then kills her dad not long after, something Kamille explicitly couldn't do, even when his dad was trying to murder him. It's not like Quess's terrible decision-making is unique. Alfred Izuruha commits some pretty major treason just because Zakus Are Cool, and he doesn't even have the excuse of a terrible homelife. Quess's problem is that, well, she's a brat. We don't see anything from Quess other than being a poo poo who makes things worse. Even Char has more moments that can be argued to be, on some level, altruistic or regretful, and Char spends the whole movie manipulating people and plotting to murder billions. She's also, interestingly enough, much more gung ho about her position than any of the Gundam leads prior to CCA. Where Amuro, Kamille, and Judau all spent a healthy chunk of their shows thinking about just ditching, Quess is all in even before Char gets his hands on her. Honestly, he seems more surprised initially that this Newtype kid is just jumping right into his arms, but hey! Free Newtype!
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Mar 18, 2020 11:51
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chiasaur11 posted:As for Amuro, the bit that I find most interesting in CCA is a talk with Chan where she says he's being cold... and then she says it's notable when that happens, because he usually isn't. She knows Amuro as a kind, good man who sometimes gets cold and distant (because PTSD and Actual Ghosts) rather than Amuro being cold and distant as a default. Similarly, I was a bit surprised by Hathaway's comments on Bright being a good dad, if not perfect. It fits him, but it's less smooth a fit with the themes of the older generation making the problems for the younger one. I would argue that it isn't, personally. In 0079, the problems of the previous generation weren't caused because they were all terrible and bad people or anything, it was because there was some good intent in their actions (moving people out in to space to stop over-population causing social and environmental problems) even if there was some greed or corruption behind it too. Even on a micro-scale, rather than a macro one, Tem Ray wasn't a terrible father by any stretch and the first episode and later flashback suggest he was a good father who was so invested in the V Project specifically because he didn't want Amuro caught up in the war and just didn't realize how much he was neglecting Amuro by his investment in the war. Char's Counterattack era Amuro mostly being a warm, caring person who just has moments of coldness and Bright being a decent father pulled away by constant conflict just slots more in to that. Yea, this generation is creating problems for the next generation but it's not through active malice or even just being bad people despite good intentions, it's just human nature. There are no perfect solutions, and imperfect people using imperfect solutions to solve the problems the last generation handed them end up causing new problems for the next generation. A cycle that will repeat indefinitely, even with the advent of Newtypes, because Newtypes are still humans at the end of the day and still prone to the same mistakes as regular humans. The fact people are evolving, even if only by a fraction, suggests it might end one day in the future though, because people might eventually change enough to cause a fundamental shift in human nature and not just in sensory perception or whatever. Which is basically Amuro's argument to Char at the end of the film. chiasaur11 posted:It's not like Quess's terrible decision-making is unique. Alfred Izuruha commits some pretty major treason just because Zakus Are Cool, and he doesn't even have the excuse of a terrible homelife. Quess's problem is that, well, she's a brat. We don't see anything from Quess other than being a poo poo who makes things worse. I think the nature of Quess' problems helps explain some of the distaste towards her, because yeah her home life isn't great but her home life also isn't all that terrible. Her dad is apparently cheating on Quess' mother with the woman we do see, but Quess' mother is such a minor figure in her life that it's only one line by a guard that even alludes to her existence (i.e. "that isn't his wife is it?") and Adaneur is quite happy to appear in public with his mistress, suggesting if it is an affair, then the marriage is dead anyway and they just don't want to admit it; possibly because he's a politician and doesn't want a failed marriage made definitively public. Other than that, Adaneur doesn't seem like a notably terrible father and he does try to include Quess and be around her throughout the film. The only time he doesn't is when he leaves her at Londenion while conducting military affairs. Which, yeah, not really a bad thing. Adaneur is a coward who used his political status to his advantage and was unaware of at least some of his daughter's preferences (he expresses surprise at one point that she's in to mobile suits), but he's far from the worst parent in the world at the same time and her home life isn't terrible beyond just not respecting her father. That also seems to be about the extent of her problems really, and I don't recall her having other issues at least. It makes her problems come off as fairly mundane and innocuous in reality, and only of real import to someone without other, broader problems to occupy their time i.e. they are the kind of personal and familial problems that occupy normal teenagers to some degree. Kamille was much the same, but (a) Kamille was opposed to the fascist police state and trying to help the protagonists and (b) he was also regularly brought low for being an rear end in a top hat to people around him, giving some catharsis as well as the fact he was the protagonist and acting against authoritarians giving his actions a more positive angle in most people's eyes.
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Mar 18, 2020 13:54
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Gonna be honest, the definition of something having "worked" being that "they didn't literally die immediately" is ridiculous and I can see the looming spectre of "being a child soldier was good for Amuro actually" on the horizon again. Brain whammied by a wizard, self-exiling from all of humanity and managing to get your life back on track after over a decade of recovery and then dying at age 29 as a direct result of what happened to you as a child soldier is not what a scenario "working" looks like. Saying that Amuro died in a different conflict so it doesn't count is horseshit. tsob posted:I think the nature of Quess' problems helps explain some of the distaste towards her, because yeah her home life isn't great but her home life also isn't all that terrible. Her dad is apparently cheating on Quess' mother with the woman we do see, but Quess' mother is such a minor figure in her life that it's only one line by a guard that even alludes to her existence Her mother not being a feature in her life is the point being made. What more evidence of a parent not being a presence do you need than the parent literally being absent and barely mentioned at all? I swear goons are media illiterate sometimes Also her dad sends people armed with guns to go fetch Quess. He is not a good dad.
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Mar 18, 2020 18:28
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EthanSteele posted:Her mother not being a feature in her life is the point being made. What more evidence of a parent not being a presence do you need than the parent literally being absent and barely mentioned at all? I swear goons are media illiterate sometimes Thank you, this is my entire point. Quess is a poo poo but she could potentially have been less of a poo poo had she actually had parental figures and been allowed to have friends(instead of her dad carting her off with armed guards for hanging out with riffraff).
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Mar 18, 2020 20:18
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EthanSteele posted:Gonna be honest, the definition of something having "worked" being that "they didn't literally die immediately" is ridiculous and I can see the looming spectre of "being a child soldier was good for Amuro actually" on the horizon again. In CCA, Amuro is shown as a relatively healthy adult. Unlike in Zeta, he's not a paranoid (and correct) shut-in who's terrified of everything. He's making new relationships that from all signs on screen are happy and healthy, he's keeping up with his old friends, he's not obsessed like Char is with the ghosts of his past. His death in CCA is a heroic moment where he sacrifices what he gained for the good of the world, creating a miracle. It's not the One Year War finally finishing him off. Like, Zeta Amuro is still traumatized, but CCA Amuro is a guy who's mostly in a good place... or who would be if not for loving CHAR. (Now THERE'S someone who didn't work.) And yes. The White Base WAS good for Amuro, even though the war also did a number on him. (CCA Amuro's in a much better place than Zeta Amuro, but he's still got some notable PTSD) The Borges reference cements it as authorial intent. As covered by Mobile Suit Breakdown (which also talks a lot about how much psychological damage Amuro wound up with), the Battle of A Baoa Qu is a reference to the Á Bao A Qu from The Book of Imaginary Beings, a creature living at the base of the mystical Tower of Victory. The creature is invisible at the base, but it follows behind visitors as they climb through the trials of the tower and becomes more visible as they advance spiritually. At the peak, it releases a beautiful blue light as the climber reaches Nirvana. But it only happened once, as every other climber fell back into their flawed condition, letting the beast tumble back to the ground. Amuro, the Newtype, goes through the trials of the One Year War, climbs the towering fortress A Baoa Qu, and after using his powers to save the White Base crew, is guided back to them by a bright light. Where the initial Amuro was a mess, the final Amuro... is still a mess, but a mess who has experienced something transcendent, and a man capable of deep human connections. (Also, Amuro and Quess both have terrible parents. Gundam leads rarely have good ones.)
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Mar 19, 2020 01:14
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chiasaur11 posted:(Also, Amuro and Quess both have terrible parents. Gundam leads rarely have good ones.) Domon's father is a good person and his mum is never spoken of negatively. Then umm...uhh...well, Hathaway is technically a protagonist and Bright may be a bit distant but I find it hard to believe he could ever be a bad dad. And sure, Asemu decided to be a SUPER PILOT space pirate instead of an actual dad but at least he didn't try to make Kio into a weapon of vengeance against an entire race like Flit did...god, that's a low standard, maybe Gundam parents really do suck.
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Mar 19, 2020 02:22
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Bright was depicted as distant from Mirai and that didn't do their relationship any favors, but he absolutely cared about Hathaway. His primary desire in CCA when they interacted was to everything he could to make sure his son had absolutely nothing at all to do with the war by setting him up at a safe place in a colony away from the conflict. It was Hathaway's own decision to stow away, steal a mobile suit, kill Chan, and later become a terrorist. By contrast Char has Quess in a mobile suit within hours of meeting her. Broadly, I suspect Bright could have done more, but he absolutely could have done way way less and did care about his son and it's amazing that's the level needed to be noteworthy in this franchise.
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Mar 19, 2020 02:30
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Blaze Dragon posted:Domon's father is a good person and his mum is never spoken of negatively. Yeah, Domon's the main reason I went with "rarely" instead of "never". What we get of Bright says he's a good dad, even if he's stuck with work pretty often. I'd also say that Al's parents don't seem too bad, and Chris's are good from 0080. The Iori's seem alright, and to round things off, Bellri's adopted mom isn't bad. Mostly, though, Gundam parents are terrible, dead, or both. I mean, Uso's parents are above average, and they raised him to be a soldier before he was 14.
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Mar 19, 2020 02:35
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Omnicrom posted:Bright was depicted as distant from Mirai and that didn't do their relationship any favors, but he absolutely cared about Hathaway. His primary desire in CCA when they interacted was to everything he could to make sure his son had absolutely nothing at all to do with the war by setting him up at a safe place in a colony away from the conflict. It was Hathaway's own decision to stow away, steal a mobile suit, kill Chan, and later become a terrorist. By contrast Char has Quess in a mobile suit within hours of meeting her. Hathaway is 13 in CCA and not really a rational actor because he's a child. Bright made a conscious decision to stay in a job that kept him more or less completely isolated from his family for years at a time. He's not an abusive dick, he's just completely absent from his children's lives because he's a front line military officer. He's in active service continually up through Zeta and most of ZZ(before he hands the Argama over to the Gundam Team) and the next we see him he's basically the leader of Londo Bell, a position which likely does not afford him a lot of time to be a family man, which he probably got into by remaining in active service after ZZ. He's STILL in active service with Londo Bell as of Unicorn. A father doesn't have to beat his children or not care about them at all for said children to be estranged from them. For all intents and purposes, Mirai was basically a single mom receiving alimony checks, and that is definitely on Bright. Kanos fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Mar 19, 2020 |
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Mar 19, 2020 03:06
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chiasaur11 posted:Yeah, Domon's the main reason I went with "rarely" instead of "never". I didn't think about Sei because Gundam Build Fighters is such a different beast, but it's true that he should count, and so does Hiroto then. His parents are shown a lot during Re:Rise and they seem to be a couple that genuinely love each other and their son and work their hardest to give him a good life in spite of his dad being a rather odd person. Sekai is an orphan and Riku...do we ever see Riku's family? Would having a family be too much personality for him?
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Mar 19, 2020 04:41
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Blaze Dragon posted:Sekai is an orphan and Riku...do we ever see Riku's family? Would having a family be too much personality for him? It would be a personality, so yes.
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Mar 19, 2020 05:17
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Blaze Dragon posted:I didn't think about Sei because Gundam Build Fighters is such a different beast, but it's true that he should count, and so does Hiroto then. His parents are shown a lot during Re:Rise and they seem to be a couple that genuinely love each other and their son and work their hardest to give him a good life in spite of his dad being a rather odd person. At first, I thought it was odd how Hiroto's parents were disconnected from the plot and Gunpla, but now I actually kind of like how not everyone's lives revolves around Gunpla in the Build Fighters universe.
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Mar 19, 2020 06:59
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amigolupus posted:At first, I thought it was odd how Hiroto's parents were disconnected from the plot and Gunpla, but now I actually kind of like how not everyone's lives revolves around Gunpla in the Build Fighters universe. I forget which show it's from but there's a good gag in one of the earlier builds where someone tries to pay for a meal with a gunpla and the next time we see him he's washing dishes in the kitchen.
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Mar 19, 2020 08:22
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Droyer posted:I forget which show it's from but there's a good gag in one of the earlier builds where someone tries to pay for a meal with a gunpla and the next time we see him he's washing dishes in the kitchen. Pretty sure it's Ricardo Fellini in Build Fighters, considering he tried hitting on someone with the same method. Build Fighters and Re:Divers are the only two shows of the four that really treat Gunpla itself as a hobby and not a means to show the protagonists doing something.
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Mar 19, 2020 08:50
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A new video produced under the theme of "BEYOND", the concept of the 40th anniversary of Gundam. Banagher, the protagonist of Mobile Suit Gundam UC, travels across the world beyond the boundaries of his work. An original story that conveys the appeal of Gundam to a wide range of people across borders and generations. https://twitter.com/g_trailer_shop/status/1240590639038783488?s=20
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Mar 19, 2020 11:52
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Droyer posted:I forget which show it's from but there's a good gag in one of the earlier builds where someone tries to pay for a meal with a gunpla and the next time we see him he's washing dishes in the kitchen. Neddy Seagoon posted:Pretty sure it's Ricardo Fellini in Build Fighters, considering he tried hitting on someone with the same method. Build Fighters and Re:Divers are the only two shows of the four that really treat Gunpla itself as a hobby and not a means to show the protagonists doing something. Are you sure it's not the Gundam Shingekyu guy?
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Mar 19, 2020 15:29
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| # ? May 10, 2024 11:44 |
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Gripweed posted:A new video produced under the theme of "BEYOND", the concept of the 40th anniversary of Gundam. Banagher, the protagonist of Mobile Suit Gundam UC, travels across the world beyond the boundaries of his work. An original story that conveys the appeal of Gundam to a wide range of people across borders and generations. if it is meant to convey the appeal of gundam, why is banagher there?
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Mar 19, 2020 15:32
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