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the_steve posted:I registered Independent when I turned 18. I turned 18 right before Obama ran for his first term. I registered as an Independent, and voted for him both times, because he appeared to have the most honesty and integrity out of all the politicians I was exposed to. I did the same with Sanders, the guy doesn't flip-flop like Romney does, he's not a racist (like Biden used to be) and he's got a consistent track record that is easily verified. I want honest politicians with integrity, the "socialist jew" was sadly the only candidate that didn't have real skeletons in the closet, but because of his political label, his age, and his 'appearance' (who the gently caress cares?) he wasn't viewed as "electable" by either democrats or republicans. I'm not at all surprised that he was independent before, but if he can convince the left that socialist policies are what will regain their power in the government, then at least he made a positive impact. Biden is just Trump with a blue tie instead of red, a literal Douche vs.Turd situation. Thanks South Park. How can you waste a vote, so long as you vote? There's a reason you can write-in a candidates name. I'm going to ignore Bernie from 2016, and I am absolutely going to write him in this time. Hopefully the rest of his supporters do the same, if Democrats want to use my face as a stepping stone, then I'm going to let them fall.
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Mar 19, 2020 23:54
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V. Illych L. posted:ubi is not a socialist policy!!!! there's a reason it fell to a dork like yang to carry its torch!!!! What is it then? Forgive my ignorance.
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Mar 19, 2020 23:55
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So, are there any handy rebuttals to this lovely "Young people just didn't want to vote badly enough, or else they would have?" victim-blaming narrative that people keep peddling? I keep seeing it on my timeline from a friend of mine who should goddamn know better, and it's driving me up the wall.
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Mar 20, 2020 00:01
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the_steve posted:So, are there any handy rebuttals to this lovely "Young people just didn't want to vote badly enough, or else they would have?" victim-blaming narrative that people keep peddling?
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Mar 20, 2020 00:05
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ubi is a policy that says that the problem with late capitalism is that some people just can't participate enough as consumers - it seeks to alleviate the issues of the day by paying people to shut up and go away, effectively. socialism is all about liberating the human from the chains of capital, and ubi is doing... not the opposite of that, but it absolutely is designed to exist in a capitalist system where employment is the individual's responsibility and if you cannot find some way to have surplus value extracted from you, you die the actual likely effects of UBI would be to drive inflation like crazy and to set up huge slums where unemployable people go outside of the areas where they cannot afford to stay - and, in all likelihood, it would be politically unstable as all get out because people with power don't like inflation the only situation where it makes sense is if we've already crushed the bourgeoisie and have decided that this is how we're handling things. in that context, sure, some universal basis quota is a reasonable system the problem of people made obsolete by technology is usually dealt with by disability welfare and related systems - but the fact is, there's no reason why anyone should be obsolete, that very obsolescence is a function of the capitalist economy in the first place
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Mar 20, 2020 00:08
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the_steve posted:So, are there any handy rebuttals to this lovely "Young people just didn't want to vote badly enough, or else they would have?" victim-blaming narrative that people keep peddling? If you go back in my post history for this thread there's a link to a study that shows that youth turnout is up overall. The problem is that older voter turnout is also way up, so it kind of cancels out.
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Mar 20, 2020 00:10
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the_steve posted:So, are there any handy rebuttals to this lovely "Young people just didn't want to vote badly enough, or else they would have?" victim-blaming narrative that people keep peddling? there's a bunch of soft reasons - young people have lower income and are less integrated in their communities, both things that make them less likely to vote, and typically have a harder time arranging transportation than their elders. they're often in jobs which make it inconvenient to vote. they have a generally lower degree of confidence in democracy, so don't think there's as much point in voting. they think the democratic party is really lame. many such reasons!
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Mar 20, 2020 00:12
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V. Illych L. posted:ubi is not a socialist policy!!!! there's a reason it fell to a dork like yang to carry its torch!!!! I'm pretty sure that's because it isn't "realistic", not because workers aren't entitled to some of the nation's wealth. Buckwheat Sings posted:Centralists are such awful people that even Jesus said they are scum. What a weird guy.
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Mar 20, 2020 00:18
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the_steve posted:So, are there any handy rebuttals to this lovely "Young people just didn't want to vote badly enough, or else they would have?" victim-blaming narrative that people keep peddling? I'm having a really (frustratingly) hard time finding actual numbers and not percentages, but I'm pretty sure the youth vote didn't decrease, it was just that their share of the votes decreased from increased older voter turnout. Hence everyone talking about boomers trying to kill the younger generation
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Mar 20, 2020 00:18
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socialism is about taking power for the class, not getting a handout from the bosses we want it all
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Mar 20, 2020 00:21
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I mean, I'm clearly not a socialist since I'm fine with only a smattering of nationalized industries and a UBI program predicated on the notion that it prevents the ultra-wealthy from even being able to exist by steadily reaccumulating wealth into the hands of the masses. But pretty much everyone in America would consider me a dirty socialist because the word has basically come to mean "Is opposed to continued total dominance of the haves over the have nots and in favour of redistributing wealth to ensure a more egalitarian society, or at least in favour of democratically deciding the government is allowed to do good things with tax dollars". It's the new word for egalitarian, basically, whether you believe that can must be accomplished through traditional socialist means or whether you think there are predominantly market friendly routes to do so
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Mar 20, 2020 00:28
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I love that every proposal so far is everything but UHC. How many more deaths will it take? 1,000,000? Probably not. Probably > 10 rich corporate donors and both parties will start talking about UHC seriously.
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Mar 20, 2020 00:30
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Mar 20, 2020 00:40
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ratbert90 posted:I love that every proposal so far is everything but UHC. How many more deaths will it take? 1,000,000? We won't know for a looong time, probably a few weeks even.
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Mar 20, 2020 00:41
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HootTheOwl posted:Because every nursing home is a polling station while a college of 4,000 share one. That was one of the things I mentioned, along with other outright voter suppression tactics and the fact that most people literally couldn't afford to wait in line for 8+ hours. The reply was: quote:If it's that important, you find a way to vote. You want poo poo like this fixed? You find a way to get your vote counted. In most states, there were ways -- early voting, vote by mail/absentee balloting. All it would have taken was some research and planning ahead. You just do it. Period. Excuses for not making it the priority it should have been.
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Mar 20, 2020 00:43
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the_steve posted:That was one of the things I mentioned, along with other outright voter suppression tactics and the fact that most people literally couldn't afford to wait in line for 8+ hours. Your friend appears to not be very bright; you can ask him/her how the students thrown out of student housing due to Corona the days before voting, were supposed to vote when they had to go home to their parents or live on the streets, because they were registered to vote at their school and not their parents home in a different state? Alternatively you can spare yourself some grief, realize this person is either tremendously stupid or not an honest actor, and 
Pingui fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Mar 20, 2020 |
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Mar 20, 2020 00:48
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Principle is cool and all, but I've worked several retail jobs in my 18-27 years that would absolutely not have cared why I needed an hour on a Tuesday between 7a and 7p. When I was working two jobs, that would mean asking one job that I started at like 3pm if I could start at 4. If they asked why I couldn't go earlier and I was honest "I'm working my other job from 7-2" they'd say tough poo poo. Usually they just say no, we need you when so and so's shift ends. Ask the early job and they'll say no, we need you to open the store. Okay now I worked 7-2 and 3-9 and the polls are closed. Oh well. Guess I should have bootstraps'd and skipped the only meal break I get in my day to go vote.
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Mar 20, 2020 00:55
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the_steve posted:That was one of the things I mentioned, along with other outright voter suppression tactics and the fact that most people literally couldn't afford to wait in line for 8+ hours. How many hours did you wait at your polling station? Oh, zero? It only took minutes? Cool. (Also, look at the age breakdown chart and compare them to the total population. 17-29 spans eleven years, every other breakdown is fifteen except seniors where everyone 65 and up got lumped together. No poo poo therey more of them because, again, their very houses are polling stations)
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Mar 20, 2020 00:56
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the_steve posted:That was one of the things I mentioned, along with other outright voter suppression tactics and the fact that most people literally couldn't afford to wait in line for 8+ hours. So next time your friend makes a dire mistake because they didn't "do the research" or whatever I hope you're there to remind them that if they wanted it enough they could have it. bootstraps arguments from liberals. gently caress
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Mar 20, 2020 00:58
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the_steve posted:So, are there any handy rebuttals to this lovely "Young people just didn't want to vote badly enough, or else they would have?" victim-blaming narrative that people keep peddling? Young people have multiple jobs and young kids to deal with. Old people don't deserve any special accolades for taking time out of doing nothing to vote.
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Mar 20, 2020 01:00
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https://twitter.com/mippyofficial/status/1240621608689176579?s=20
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Mar 20, 2020 01:01
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HootTheOwl posted:How many hours did you wait at your polling station? Oh, zero? It only took minutes? Cool. My coworker (LA) couldn't vote in the Primary because she had a UTI and her voting place CLOSED THE BATHROOMS. The line was over 3 hours long.
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Mar 20, 2020 01:04
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the_steve posted:So, are there any handy rebuttals to this lovely "Young people just didn't want to vote badly enough, or else they would have?" victim-blaming narrative that people keep peddling? Reverse ageism, older people chose to vote against their interests because it's easier to support the devil you know, than the man you don't. Blaming young people for not succeeding is one of the oldest plays in the book.
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Mar 20, 2020 01:07
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HootTheOwl posted:Because every nursing home is a polling station while a college of 4,000 share one.
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Mar 20, 2020 02:20
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tulsi's brother weighs in
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Mar 20, 2020 02:21
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Concerned Citizen posted:tulsi's brother weighs in
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Mar 20, 2020 02:36
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Concerned Citizen posted:tulsi's brother weighs in I don't think I'd want the endorsement of someone who supports Modi genociding muslims in India.
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Mar 20, 2020 02:38
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Concerned Citizen posted:tulsi's brother weighs in Lmao as if Tulsi's endorsement isn't tepid, meaningless poo poo to everyone except her 17 fans and apparently American Samoa.
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Mar 20, 2020 02:41
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https://twitter.com/ag_due/status/1240716742453755905?s=20 Good luck in November poo poo eaters.
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Mar 20, 2020 02:43
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HootTheOwl posted:I'm not sure Bernie has to approve your endorsement The opposite of Pete.
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Mar 20, 2020 02:43
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/ag_due/status/1240716742453755905?s=20 I wonder how cozy people are that they hate others for trying to improve their lives. You'd think they all lived in opulence or something but no. They just detest change and youth and paying their fair share. Disgusting.
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Mar 20, 2020 03:14
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/ag_due/status/1240716742453755905?s=20 Who is this unverified guy with a 5 month old account and no followers and why is this significant?
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Mar 20, 2020 03:16
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He's probably a nobody but man what an rear end in a top hat lol. His pinned tweet was something that I didn't remember from the 2016 debate https://twitter.com/ag_due/status/1194276681458032642 I can't believe they asked him that question. I'm going to take a guess that HRC wasn't pressed on things like Honduras. Nothing changes, I guess!
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Mar 20, 2020 03:32
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I support a large variety of "socialist" policies but don't necessarily see it as necessary to destroy "capital" or "capitalism"; even if I understand and am sympathetic to the arguments as to why it is ideal in the long run. For as long as it doesn't seem practical and I must measure outcomes according to net utility; I will accept less ideal outcomes that improve net utility over supporting outcomes that might not happen and thus provide no net utility. UBI is good, UBI solves fundamental issues with automation eventually making the human race overwhelmingly unemployable as per CGP Grey's video "Humans Need Not Apply". If eventually capitalism determines it can safely eliminate the working class through AI and automation it will do so, and I'm not sure how exactly Marxists have in general adapted to this inevitable eventuality where the "working class" suddenly ceases to meaningfully exist. Maybe the proleteriate just expands to computer touchers maintaining robots that make widgets but the idea of socialist revolution carried on the backs of blue collar workers making a living by the sweat of their brow and selling their labour is dead and buried or dying a slow extended death.
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Mar 20, 2020 03:37
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phasmid posted:I wonder how cozy people are that they hate others for trying to improve their lives. You'd think they all lived in opulence or something but no. They just detest change and youth and paying their fair share. Disgusting. I trust very few randoms on twitter to actually be acting or talking in good faith. Who knows who might be operating any number of these accounts. If it is real, then it's really hosed up, just as much as all the people making jokes about "lol, who is going to vote for Biden when all the olds are going to die from corona". It really is grotesque the state of things at the moment.
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Mar 20, 2020 03:39
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Rainbow Knight posted:He's probably a nobody but man what an rear end in a top hat lol. His pinned tweet was something that I didn't remember from the 2016 debate Bernie should challenge joe to one final debate hosted by jimmy dore
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Mar 20, 2020 03:39
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The Dark Project posted:I trust very few randoms on twitter to actually be acting or talking in good faith. Who knows who might be operating any number of these accounts. If it is real, then it's really hosed up, just as much as all the people making jokes about "lol, who is going to vote for Biden when all the olds are going to die from corona". It really is grotesque the state of things at the moment. Good point. It's sort of the infuriating prospect that there actually *are* people like that, I suppose.
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Mar 20, 2020 04:11
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El Destructo posted:And every out-of-state student must jump through several time- and money-intensive hoops just to be eligible for the chance to wait for hours in that one line to that one polling place. Yep, those kids are just so disinterested and lazy! It's pretty lovely for the places that engaged in voter supression, but doesn't really explain places like Washington. Apogee15 fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Mar 20, 2020 |
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Mar 20, 2020 04:30
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the_steve posted:I registered Independent when I turned 18. Sorry if I'm being ignorant, but is there any real benefit to registering as an independent? I'm registered as a Democrat so I can vote in the primary (although I actually don't think I have to be in Michigan) and because there's pretty much no chance I'd ever vote for a Republican, so I thought I might as well let them know it's a Democratic vote for them to lose.
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Mar 20, 2020 04:36
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the_steve posted:So, are there any handy rebuttals to this lovely "Young people just didn't want to vote badly enough, or else they would have?" victim-blaming narrative that people keep peddling? Honestly I've been mostly responding with poo poo posting about the general election. Biden can't win with only 44+ support, young people will never vote for Biden. They should have voted for Bernie if they cared at all about defeating Trump. They have denied themselves the opportunity to win in the general and are the reason we will be stuck with Trump. I'm not sure I'm winning hearts and minds, but it's at least fun for me.
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Mar 20, 2020 04:36
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