Long Term Investing & Retirement: The second best time is now

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Long Term Investing & Retirement: The second best time is now

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pixaal: Jan 8, 2004; All ice cream is now for all beings, no matter how many legs.

edit: new page oh gently caress here's context it's not a reply

Leperflesh posted:

Why would you pay a wells fargo analyst a fee to put you into not-index-funds? Why would you bother with wells-fargo index funds when vanguard and fidelity funds track the same indexes for cheaper?

But aside from that, if you had money int he market in 2008, and kept it there, you maid gains that you absolutely haven't given up yet despite the current crash. We're nowhere near bottom-of-2008 levels and are unlikely to get there. Holding steady from them to now was the right move and it continues to probably be the right move. There's some risk that it's not, but the risk is small.

again not a reply just a bad new page:

With the looming layoffs make sure you have emergency money even if you think your job is safe. If you have let any of your emergency funds dip replenish them before buying cheap. If you are forced to sell low instead to live, you are just losing money. You really want to think about how much emergency cash you need while you still have the job and have that much on hand before investing more. You should always be doing this but this is an excellent time for a reminder.

pixaal fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Mar 20, 2020

# ? Mar 20, 2020 20:35

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# ? May 27, 2024 13:11

cheese eats mouse: Jul 6, 2007; A real Portlander now

the only downward graph that matters to me is my debt paydown graph.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 20:41

skipdogg: Nov 29, 2004; Resident SRT-4 Expert

vandalism posted:

I just don't know what to think right now. I'm 32 and have a pretty significant chunk of change in investments. I got hit pretty hard in 08 and I'm getting hit hard again now. I don't want to retire or anything, so I'm planning on sticking in for another 20 years or so. Work full time, good income for where I live and happy with what I do for a living. This poo poo sucks. I need to stop looking at my accounts and marketwatch and such. I have money with cfp who works for wells fargo. Some of it is in their tracked funds and some of it is privately managed by her for a lower percentage. This poo poo just fuckin sucks.

Anyone else in a similar boat? For what it's worth I'm down about 15% right now on paper across my accounts.

My retirement account is down over 30% and I'm not in the least bit worried. I'm 39 and 100% in the S&P500. I have bigger issues to worry about if things don't turn around tbh.

I had about 150K before this poo poo started, and my wife has around 100K. She's in the Vanguard 2045 fund. I don't know her current balance, but we could be down 75 or 80K at this point. Not worried a single bit right now.

skipdogg fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Mar 20, 2020

# ? Mar 20, 2020 20:42

moana: Jun 18, 2005; one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

Guhhh wells Fargo sucks. What are your expense ratios? That's what you should be worried about, not market stuff that's out of your control.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 20:49

vandalism: Aug 4, 2003

Leperflesh posted:

Why would you pay a wells fargo analyst a fee to put you into not-index-funds? Why would you bother with wells-fargo index funds when vanguard and fidelity funds track the same indexes for cheaper?

But aside from that, if you had money int he market in 2008, and kept it there, you maid gains that you absolutely haven't given up yet despite the current crash. We're nowhere near bottom-of-2008 levels and are unlikely to get there. Holding steady from them to now was the right move and it continues to probably be the right move. There's some risk that it's not, but the risk is small.

This is a good question. My mom passed away in 2007 and my dad got some life insurance money due to this. He went with a local investor that he trusted. She had steered him right for a long time. Then, he passed away and I inherited the money. I left it with her because I trust her. I could probably make more money at vanguard. The thing is, I'd have to pull the money out, pay taxes, then figure out what stuff to do when I invested it. I did some research on it and it stressed me out and I didn't wanna dick with it too much. So I decided to re-organize some stuff with her. She manages part of it now at only 1% fee compared to the other wells fargo tracked stuff which is 2% or so. I don't mind paying that for not having to do much of the planning or work. I've made enough to make me happy, so I'm not too worried about that.

I guess I keep it with her because I trust her and tradition. Would it be worthwhile to change that? I'm not sure at this point.

The tracked funds through wells fargo are like 2% and the ones with her are 1% of the entire fund per year to manage.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:02

Hoodwinker: Nov 7, 2005

vandalism posted:

This is a good question. My mom passed away in 2007 and my dad got some life insurance money due to this. He went with a local investor that he trusted. She had steered him right for a long time. Then, he passed away and I inherited the money. I left it with her because I trust her. I could probably make more money at vanguard. The thing is, I'd have to pull the money out, pay taxes, then figure out what stuff to do when I invested it. I did some research on it and it stressed me out and I didn't wanna dick with it too much. So I decided to re-organize some stuff with her. She manages part of it now at only 1% fee compared to the other wells fargo tracked stuff which is 2% or so. I don't mind paying that for not having to do much of the planning or work. I've made enough to make me happy, so I'm not too worried about that.

I guess I keep it with her because I trust her and tradition. Would it be worthwhile to change that? I'm not sure at this point.

The tracked funds through wells fargo are like 2% and the ones with her are 1% of the entire fund per year to manage.

Those prices are insanely high. Is this taxable money or tax-advantaged?

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:07

moana: Jun 18, 2005; one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

Jesus gently caress 1% is crippling stupid. And 1% by the way is the fee on top of the probably high expense ratios the funds have. You are getting hosed over.

I'm sure she's nice and you think you can trust her. But good lord, if you want a CFP go get an independent fee only one off NAPFA. Then you'll get tax advice, insurance advice, estate planning advice, as well as investments, probably for much less than you're paying now for her to do literally nothing but babysit an automatic portfolio.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:08

Not a Children: Oct 9, 2012; Don't need a holster if you never stop shooting.

vandalism posted:

This is a good question. My mom passed away in 2007 and my dad got some life insurance money due to this. He went with a local investor that he trusted. She had steered him right for a long time. Then, he passed away and I inherited the money. I left it with her because I trust her. I could probably make more money at vanguard. The thing is, I'd have to pull the money out, pay taxes, then figure out what stuff to do when I invested it. I did some research on it and it stressed me out and I didn't wanna dick with it too much. So I decided to re-organize some stuff with her. She manages part of it now at only 1% fee compared to the other wells fargo tracked stuff which is 2% or so. I don't mind paying that for not having to do much of the planning or work. I've made enough to make me happy, so I'm not too worried about that.

I guess I keep it with her because I trust her and tradition. Would it be worthwhile to change that? I'm not sure at this point.

The tracked funds through wells fargo are like 2% and the ones with her are 1% of the entire fund per year to manage.

1% is nearly 7 times more than you'll spend for a retirement target date (0.15%) at Vanguard, and I sincerely doubt she's given you significantly better returns. Over several decades that adds up to a significant percentage after it compounds - in a 30 year span that'll cost you about 22% of your final sum, all other things being equal.

Is 22% of your payoff worth it?

(note: this was done with napkin math at the end of a long day assuming 7% avg annualized returns. Forgive me if I messed the math up, but hey, that's what happens when you get free advice)

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:11

vandalism: Aug 4, 2003

Hmm. So uhh... when should I pull it out? Not now that I'm down so much. You guys think I should wait til I get back to about where I was before the meltdown then make the change?

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:13

Hoodwinker: Nov 7, 2005

vandalism posted:

Hmm. So uhh... when should I pull it out? Not now that I'm down so much. You guys think I should wait til I get back to about where I was before the meltdown then make the change?

If it's in an IRA or 401k (or some other tax-advantaged account), there is literally no tax cost to moving it over. You do what's called a "rollover" and this does not invoke a taxable event. If this is in a taxable brokerage account, I'm not 100% sure if you can transfer assets between brokerages "in-kind" but I'm pretty sure if you're young enough that just selling, paying taxes, and rebuying will cost you way, way less in the long run. You'd want to figure that out.

Either way, you're getting punk'd, son.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:15

vandalism: Aug 4, 2003

Hoodwinker posted:

If it's in an IRA or 401k (or some other tax-advantaged account), there is literally no tax cost to moving it over. You do what's called a "rollover" and this does not invoke a taxable event. If this is in a taxable brokerage account, I'm not 100% sure if you can transfer assets between brokerages "in-kind" but I'm pretty sure if you're young enough that just selling, paying taxes, and rebuying will cost you way, way less in the long run. You'd want to figure that out.

Either way, you're getting punk'd, son.

There are several different accounts. Yeah. I need to contact another fee only cfp and figure my poo poo out.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:16

Kylaer: Aug 4, 2007; I'm SURE walking around in a respirator at all times in an (even more) OPEN BIDENing society is definitely not a recipe for disaster and anyone that's not cool with getting harassed by CHUDs are cave dwellers. I've got good brain!

Technically this isn't my first crash, I started a Roth IRA in 2008 right before that crash started, but the overall value was so low as to be near-meaningless so I can't say I was really tested by it. Whereas this time I've seen my theoretical net worth drop by over $200,000, which is significant. It's a unpleasant thing to see, but I haven't done anything in response except to tax-loss harvest a couple of things. What it makes me think about the most is honestly why I bother working full time when I could live perfectly happily making considerably less, since so much of my net income goes to my investments. I could still add to my investments (albeit at a much lower rate) while working a part-time schedule that would make me much happier with life in general. Once the pandemic is over (or at least has faded and become endemic, if it's just a new fact of life), I've decided that's what I'll do, but this moment is probably not a good time to be job hunting.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:29

DeadFatDuckFat: Oct 29, 2012; This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.

Leperflesh posted:

tell your mom that warren buffet is 89 years old and his stock is gonna plummet the day he dies, which is not a highly predictable date

see what she thinks of that

DeadFatDuckFat posted:

lol I will actually say this and see what she says

Her response was that the 2 other managers actually outperform Buffet lol so maybe he should just get out of the way?

DeadFatDuckFat posted:

lol I will actually say this and see what she says

Thanks to everyone else for the replies, it basically confirms what I was already thinking. My mom has actually done really well for me so far, even if its just from luck or whatever. There are just so many different funds/accounts that they had opened for me with different brokerages that I wanted to consolidate and reduce some stuff. This is the (former) UGMA account that we just transferred into my brokerage.

I think the main focus was reducing that finance fund

I'm gonna try to reduce my positions in that finance fund and also the brokerage fund. I'll sell off some of both so that the loss from the former (FIDSX) offsets the gains from the latter (FSLBX), and I'll use the resulting freed up money to put into the Total Market fund. Probably gonna try to start doing that on Monday.

I also need to start reducing my VEVFX in my Vanguard account. If I just do that Exchange option that they have to put it in another fund, I assume I have to pay the Capital gains (if any) on that transaction right?

DeadFatDuckFat fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Mar 20, 2020

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:37

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

Leperflesh posted:

well no, they're funds-of-funds and the underlying funds are index funds, which are in turn pegged to their index; the beauty here is that human decision-making is removed from the process. That's fundamentally the advantage, because people suck at this.

A human set it up in the first place. Those humans made decisions. They are now, very generally, set in stone. :v:

vandalism posted:

There are several different accounts. Yeah. I need to contact another fee only cfp and figure my poo poo out.

Call vanguard (or Fidelity) and ask for help rolling this stuff over. See if you can get any kind of fee Well Fargo is going to charge you waived by vanguard. Even if you keep the same funds you will make 1% more per year. If you want to figure out a target allocation we can help you with that, too. Hint it's basically a target date retirement fund that's (65-your_age) (this is very general.)

As to what to do? I'm 24.2% down on paper if I'm doing this math right (1-(current/peak)). I doubled my 401k % which lands today or monday. I have a stable job (fingers crossed) and a healthy emergency fund. Otherwise, I'm doing nothing.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:48

moana: Jun 18, 2005; one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web

Hoodwinker posted:

If it's in an IRA or 401k (or some other tax-advantaged account), there is literally no tax cost to moving it over. You do what's called a "rollover" and this does not invoke a taxable event. If this is in a taxable brokerage account, I'm not 100% sure if you can transfer assets between brokerages "in-kind"

You absolutely can transfer between brokerages without incurring taxes even in taxable accounts. Just talk to vanguard and they'll get you squared away. If all you're using a CFP for is asset management, they can do that for like .3% I believe.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:58

Hoodwinker: Nov 7, 2005

moana posted:

You absolutely can transfer between brokerages without incurring taxes even in taxable accounts. Just talk to vanguard and they'll get you squared away. If all you're using a CFP for is asset management, they can do that for like .3% I believe.

I thought there might be. So yeah, there's no excuse then not to get the hell out of there.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:00

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

I know this stuff is complicated and intimidating but please please read some of the books cited in the OP. Even if you decide you still want an advisor, you'll be on far better footing.

The hive mind of this thread is also very patient regarding newb questions if you need to clarify things.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:06

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

Gazpacho posted:

I created a Vanguard brokerage account in February and jumped into an index fund right at the end of the month. Currently down 28% on the position and it's frustrating, but anything other than sticking to the plan seems like a panic response. If I had started sooner and been in the market deeper I might feel differently.

Astro7x posted:

I have been putting money into my Roth account for years, never really did anything with it except add to it. Finally decided to start investing Jan 2019. I officially have less than what i put in total over all the years. Started my kids 529 last summer and contributed Jan 1st as well. That's down even more than what I put in. You are not alone.

At least I have 25 years and my kid has 15 years for it to bounce back somewhat.

Hell, here's my past month:

code:

Roth IRA:

02/18/2020: Buy 135.8080 of VFFVX @ $44.18	= -$6,000.00
02/18/2020: Buy 135.8080 of VFFVX @ $44.18	= -$6,000.00

Taxable:

02/20/2020: Buy 128.1680 of VFIAX @ $312.09 = -$40,000.00
02/21/2020: Buy 68.0010 of VFIAX @ $308.82 = -$21,000.00
03/09/2020: Sell-Exchange 196.1690 of VFIAX @ $253.19 = $49,668.03
03/09/2020: Buy-Exchange 734.9520 of VTSAX @ $67.58 = -$49,668.03
03/11/2020: Buy 1,096.4910 of VBTLX @ $11.40 = -$12,500.00
03/11/2020: Buy 1,026.2730 of VTIAX @ $24.36 = -$25,000.00
03/11/2020: Buy 563.2270 of VTSAX @ $67.17 = -$37,831.94

To put it in perspective:

code:

$SPY on 2/18/2020: $336.73
$SPY on 2/21/2020: $333.48
$SPY on 2/28/2020: $296.26
$SPY on 3/09/2020: $274.23
$SPY on 3/11/2020: $274.36
$SPY on 3/20/2020: $228.80

Keep in mind that these were basically all of my non-emergency savings. I literally put almost all my money into the market right before the crash. :v:

Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Mar 20, 2020

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:26

seiferguy: Jun 9, 2005; FLAWED
INTUITION; Toilet Rascal

My bank finally linked to my fidelity account, and I�m about ready to drop $6k in my Roth for 2019, then I get my annual bonus next month and could drop another $6k in for 2020. I guess my biggest concern is the massive downturn in the economy and if I should hold on to that in case there�s job layoffs. I�m fine investing now even if I expect the market to continue to kind of tumble for a bit, it�s more a worry of having emergency funds. Thoughts?

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:34

Keyser_Soze: May 5, 2009; Pillbug

If it's like my very large Bay Area employer they will make sure to process layoffs before the April bonus season! :commissar:

They are getting excited to do it too, I can tell.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:35

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

seiferguy posted:

My bank finally linked to my fidelity account, and I�m about ready to drop $6k in my Roth for 2019, then I get my annual bonus next month and could drop another $6k in for 2020. I guess my biggest concern is the massive downturn in the economy and if I should hold on to that in case there�s job layoffs. I�m fine investing now even if I expect the market to continue to kind of tumble for a bit, it�s more a worry of having emergency funds. Thoughts?

If you don't have 6 months worth of expenses already earmarked as emergency funds and squared away in an HYSA, then you don't have enough money to contribute to your IRA. Otherwise, up to you whether or not you want more padding in your emergency funds.

Uh, but don't take my word for it. Listen to the rest of the thread as well.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:36

WithoutTheFezOn: Aug 28, 2005; Oh no

seiferguy posted:

Thoughts?

Not worrying about having enough emergency cash is more valuable than what you may gain by investing $6000 3-12 months earlier, IMO.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:38

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

seiferguy posted:

My bank finally linked to my fidelity account, and I�m about ready to drop $6k in my Roth for 2019, then I get my annual bonus next month and could drop another $6k in for 2020. I guess my biggest concern is the massive downturn in the economy and if I should hold on to that in case there�s job layoffs. I�m fine investing now even if I expect the market to continue to kind of tumble for a bit, it�s more a worry of having emergency funds. Thoughts?

This is up to your personal risk. Do you have a healthy emergency fund? Do you have a job that's likely to be recession proof?

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:45

Loan Dusty Road: Feb 27, 2007

I kind of did that but only to lock in for 2019 and not lose the space (for both my wife and I). My e-fund took a hit to accomplish this, and I won't be contributing to my 2020 IRA until the e-fund is whole again in a few months. I also work 100% remote for an 'essential service' to the communities, so my job is pretty safe for at least 2 more years. Not that I can't get fired, but I won't be laid off due to current circumstances.

Usually I'm ahead on this stuff, but the wife took 2.5 years off from paid work when the twins came. We are just starting to catch up now that shes working again.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:48

Duckman2008: Jan 6, 2010; TFW you see Flyers goaltending.; Grimey Drawer

pixaal posted:

edit: new page oh gently caress here's context it's not a reply

again not a reply just a bad new page:

With the looming layoffs make sure you have emergency money even if you think your job is safe. If you have let any of your emergency funds dip replenish them before buying cheap. If you are forced to sell low instead to live, you are just losing money. You really want to think about how much emergency cash you need while you still have the job and have that much on hand before investing more. You should always be doing this but this is an excellent time for a reminder.

Yeah, I�m not changing my contribution , I already have a decent emergency fund, but I will say short term I am funneling extra money into my emergency/savings instead of invest it (the extra contributions if you will).

My wife�s one job is stable, the other one possibly ends in June, and lord knows what hiring will be then.

My job is customer facing, but in theory people will keep paying their bills, so hopefully (?) I stay employed. But honestly , while people shouldn�t pull money out of retirement, I don�t blame anyone who pushes a bit more into their savings, regardless of current emergency amount saved.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:48

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

seiferguy posted:

My bank finally linked to my fidelity account, and I�m about ready to drop $6k in my Roth for 2019, then I get my annual bonus next month and could drop another $6k in for 2020. I guess my biggest concern is the massive downturn in the economy and if I should hold on to that in case there�s job layoffs. I�m fine investing now even if I expect the market to continue to kind of tumble for a bit, it�s more a worry of having emergency funds. Thoughts?

If you don't have an emergency fund (several months of expenses in a savings account) then don't put money in an IRA.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 23:05

Splinter: Jul 4, 2003; Cowabunga!

withak posted:

If you don't have an emergency fund (several months of expenses in a savings account) then don't put money in an IRA.

OTOH, you can withdraw your Roth contributions penalty free at any time, for any reason. So maxing out your 2019 contribution now to avoid losing that tax advantaged space isn't necessarily a bad move. Keep it in cash (or similar) within the IRA while you build up a cash emergency fund. If you end up needing some of that money before you've built an adequate cash emergency fund, just pull it back out. There's no real loss there as had you kept that money in cash from the get go you would've lost that tax advantaged space anyway. However, if you end up not needing that money for an emergency, you just saved 6k in tax advantaged space.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 23:20

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

Yeah, just make sure that the money isn't in stocks if you are using your Roth contributions as an emergency fund.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 23:23

seiferguy: Jun 9, 2005; FLAWED
INTUITION; Toilet Rascal

Thanks for the responses, all. I�ve probably got about 5-6 months of money (probably more, if I lost my job I would cut back a ton on some of the things I spend on) in a HYS, plus a couple more months that would be left over between my checking / savings at my credit union if I took $6k out of there. I might just do $3k for 2019 and see how April plays out. I�m in procurement consulting, which sounds like the type of service that would get axed first by clients in the wake of any downturn. But to my company�s credit, they�ve not had layoffs (yet). I have a lot of experience and I think there will always be procurement jobs so I think I could bounce back on my feet if it happened.

Edit: putting it into the Roth as cash for the time being then converting it to stock/index funds/etc at a later point is actually a great idea, and I don�t lose out on 2019 contributions but could still have money available if I absolutely need it.

seiferguy fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Mar 20, 2020

# ? Mar 20, 2020 23:32

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

seiferguy posted:

Thanks for the responses, all. I�ve probably got about 5-6 months of money (probably more, if I lost my job I would cut back a ton on some of the things I spend on) in a HYS, plus a couple more months that would be left over between my checking / savings at my credit union if I took $6k out of there. I might just do $3k for 2019 and see how April plays out. I�m in procurement consulting, which sounds like the type of service that would get axed first by clients in the wake of any downturn. But to my company�s credit, they�ve not had layoffs (yet). I have a lot of experience and I think there will always be procurement jobs so I think I could bounce back on my feet if it happened.

Edit: putting it into the Roth as cash for the time being then converting it to stock/index funds/etc at a later point is actually a great idea, and I don�t lose out on 2019 contributions but could still have money available if I absolutely need it.

I wouldn't lose the 2019 space then. You can always wait on 2020.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 23:35

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

I'd suggest that everyone be extra mindful of phishing attempts during the outbreak, because companies are sending out an increased number of customer relation e-mails and it would be relatively easy to get hooked by a fake one.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 23:40

KYOON GRIFFEY JR: Apr 12, 2010; Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

seiferguy posted:

Thanks for the responses, all. I�ve probably got about 5-6 months of money (probably more, if I lost my job I would cut back a ton on some of the things I spend on) in a HYS, plus a couple more months that would be left over between my checking / savings at my credit union if I took $6k out of there. I might just do $3k for 2019 and see how April plays out. I�m in procurement consulting, which sounds like the type of service that would get axed first by clients in the wake of any downturn. But to my company�s credit, they�ve not had layoffs (yet). I have a lot of experience and I think there will always be procurement jobs so I think I could bounce back on my feet if it happened.

Edit: putting it into the Roth as cash for the time being then converting it to stock/index funds/etc at a later point is actually a great idea, and I don�t lose out on 2019 contributions but could still have money available if I absolutely need it.

Yeah the 2019 space is space you never get back so if you can fund it and maintain that e-fund I think that's a good idea.

pixaal posted:

With the looming layoffs make sure you have emergency money even if you think your job is safe. If you have let any of your emergency funds dip replenish them before buying cheap. If you are forced to sell low instead to live, you are just losing money. You really want to think about how much emergency cash you need while you still have the job and have that much on hand before investing more. You should always be doing this but this is an excellent time for a reminder.

this is good advice. I am a lot more comfortable (psychologically) with the general situation, job loss risk, etc, because of my (absurd, gains-killing) massive emergency fund.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Mar 21, 2020

# ? Mar 21, 2020 14:27

Pollyanna: Mar 5, 2005; Milk's on them.

I have 6 months worth of $3000 earmarked for emergency money which is wayyy more than I actually need, so it�s probably enough to actually last me 6 months.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 15:34

Mikey Purp: Sep 30, 2008; I realized it's gotten out of control. I realize I'm out of control.

Looking for some advice on potentially diversifying our portfolio. Long story short, about 10 years ago my wife inherited a six-figure portfolio that was split up between 3 or 4 oil and defense companies. We have been wanting to sell them and re-invest into index funds, but weren't keen to pay a bunch of taxes on the gains in this bull market

Assuming that a market crash a good time to do this from a tax advantage perspective....what do I need to know?

# ? Mar 21, 2020 21:53

pixaal: Jan 8, 2004; All ice cream is now for all beings, no matter how many legs.

Mikey Purp posted:

Looking for some advice on potentially diversifying our portfolio. Long story short, about 10 years ago my wife inherited a six-figure portfolio that was split up between 3 or 4 oil and defense companies. We have been wanting to sell them and re-invest into index funds, but weren't keen to pay a bunch of taxes on the gains in this bull market

Assuming that a market crash a good time to do this from a tax advantage perspective....what do I need to know?

There is currently an oil war and oil is super cheap and will probably go up again, you would be selling oil at probably the cheapest price it will be. That doesn't sound like a good idea even if you were trying to time the market. The time to do it was during the bull market.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 22:24

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

Yup I'll just add that it's almost always the wrong decision to try to avoid taxes (especially long-term capital gains taxes, which are low) at the expense of losing a shitload of value in the underlying, or at the expense of keeping exposure to a lot more risk than you want.

At this point if I had a few grand to spare I'd be buying oil stocks, they're severely battered and it's the worst possible time to sell them.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 22:35

H110Hawk: Dec 28, 2006

Leperflesh posted:

Yup I'll just add that it's almost always the wrong decision to try to avoid taxes (especially long-term capital gains taxes, which are low) at the expense of losing a shitload of value in the underlying, or at the expense of keeping exposure to a lot more risk than you want.

At this point if I had a few grand to spare I'd be buying oil stocks, they're severely battered and it's the worst possible time to sell them.

Yeah this is cutting off the nose to spite the face. 15% cap gains taxes is likely lower than your (the poster in question, not you leper) marginal income rate. Owing taxes means that you made money, and you're only taxed on profit.

People need to get over bitching about paying long term capital gains - it's a huge giveaway to the rich. Take it.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 22:41

wide stance: Jan 28, 2011; If there's more than one way to do a job, and one of those ways will result in disaster, then he will do it that way.

Mikey Purp posted:

Looking for some advice on potentially diversifying our portfolio. Long story short, about 10 years ago my wife inherited a six-figure portfolio that was split up between 3 or 4 oil and defense companies. We have been wanting to sell them and re-invest into index funds, but weren't keen to pay a bunch of taxes on the gains in this bull market

Assuming that a market crash a good time to do this from a tax advantage perspective....what do I need to know?

Selling the oil stock only makes sense from a tax perspective if you're putting into an oil sector ETF that is (ideally) comprised of those same companies, otherwise putting it into a generic index fund is selling low and buying higher for a permanent loss.

Same goes with the defense stock, if it has dropped harder than the S&P like oil has then selling it will incur a real loss unless you can put it into a defense sector ETF with those same companies inside or ones that can be expected to perform nearly identically.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 22:52

Mikey Purp: Sep 30, 2008; I realized it's gotten out of control. I realize I'm out of control.

Thanks for the advice guys. Yeah one of the stocks is BA so I'm assuming that's sunk more than the S&P of late. Our main intention when thinking about doing this is not avoiding taxes but instead reducing the inherent risk in having 80% of our portfolio invested into 3 stocks. We'd much rather flip the ratio and have the majority in index funds. My thought was that this was a good time to do that since it would minimize the capital gains tax while at the same time allowing us to buy into the index funds at a low point (we have a liquid emergency fund and don't plan on touching the money we have invested any time soon).

Is this still a dumb move from that perspective?

# ? Mar 21, 2020 23:46

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# ? May 27, 2024 13:11

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

Mikey Purp posted:

Thanks for the advice guys. Yeah one of the stocks is BA so I'm assuming that's sunk more than the S&P of late. Our main intention when thinking about doing this is not avoiding taxes but instead reducing the inherent risk in having 80% of our portfolio invested into 3 stocks. We'd much rather flip the ratio and have the majority in index funds. My thought was that this was a good time to do that since it would minimize the capital gains tax while at the same time allowing us to buy into the index funds at a low point (we have a liquid emergency fund and don't plan on touching the money we have invested any time soon).

Is this still a dumb move from that perspective?

Unfortunatley I think the only way to answer that is on a stock-by-stock basis, and also by doing something we usually don't do in this thread, which is try to predict what the future of one stock might be. BA is a good example, the rumors are that the government might do an airline bailout, and if that happens, BA's stock could spike hugely and it'd be a big shame to miss that by a day or ten because you hurried to lock in a lower tax bill. Or, maybe they'll announce there's not gonna be a bailout after all, and the stock plunges more, and you missed your last opportunity to sell at this level for a long time? Nobody can really say for sure. Deciding when to sell BA, even just to buy index funds, is a market-timing gamble.

# ? Mar 22, 2020 00:02

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Long Term Investing & Retirement: The second best time is now

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