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Yeast: Dec 25, 2006; $1900 Grande Latte

Wheeee posted:

When will people begin getting their hands on the new Airs? I want to see initial reviews and benchmarks since it's a new product, but if they haven't hosed anything up I think I'll be buying my first Mac; always liked using them, never really justified buying one until now.

My mate just received his review unit last night. So they're around.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 07:04

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# ? May 30, 2024 10:06

jokes: Dec 20, 2012; Uh... Kupo?

I have no problems at all with the touch bar except that escape isn't a button.

If it was moved slightly to the right and shrunk to match the width of the keyboard, with the escape key as a real, physical button I would feel a lot better.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 09:43

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

jokes posted:

I have no problems at all with the touch bar except that escape isn't a button.

If it was moved slightly to the right and shrunk to match the width of the keyboard, with the escape key as a real, physical button I would feel a lot better.

Isn�t the MK 2 (or 3?) touchbar basically that? I thought the one on the 16� had a separate Esc key.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 10:10

Daniel Bryan: May 23, 2006; GOAT

Ok Comboomer posted:

Isn�t the MK 2 (or 3?) touchbar basically that? I thought the one on the 16� had a separate Esc key.

Yes, the 16� Pro has a physical escape key

# ? Mar 20, 2020 12:40

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koPg_DZUfOc

'Reviews' are hitting the net

# ? Mar 20, 2020 15:00

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Come on, where are the Geekbench 5 scores?

# ? Mar 20, 2020 16:13

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

Ok Comboomer posted:

Come on, where are the Geekbench 5 scores?

He actually shows it on there briefly :v:

:

1192/3238 single/multi for the i5 quad

The fastest MBP 13" on Geekbench's Mac list for comparison gets 1101/4205

So pretty good single core (up there with the rest of the higher end machines actually), multi limited by the chip clocks and thermals I imagine. And should have like 2x graphics performance or something on top of that. Course that�s only a single sample so probably reading into it too much.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 18:17

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

japtor posted:

He actually shows it on there briefly :

1192/3238 single/multi for the i5 quad

The fastest MBP 13" on Geekbench's Mac list for comparison gets 1101/4205

So pretty good single core (up there with the rest of the higher end machines actually), multi limited by the chip clocks and thermals I imagine. And should have like 2x graphics performance or something on top of that. Course that�s only a single sample so probably reading into it too much.

Holy poo poo. For <$1200-1400 with edu discount that�s still a hell of a notebook for the money. Arguably a wash with my 2013 15� which is frankly probably enough.

Really curious to see how the i7 shakes out�I�ve been hearing that it apparently has an edge in graphics due to some unlabeled difference between it and the i5?

# ? Mar 20, 2020 18:55

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Apple really hit it out of the park with the Air/iPad Pro. This is like a 2010/2011-level moment for the Air.

Of course Apple had to go and do their requisite �Apple underwhelms on what should be a basic meat-and-potatoes spec upgrade if nothing else, after ~500 days, that literally every other manufacturer would do� with the Mini

# ? Mar 20, 2020 18:59

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

I wanna see Cinebench, multiple runs. WHERE IS NOTEBOOKCHECK.NET

# ? Mar 20, 2020 19:32

hatty: Feb 28, 2011; Pork Pro

I wonder if Apple will let me swap my big honkin 16� for the new Air. I didn�t really need the power but it was the only thing out with the good keyboard when I needed to buy exactly one month ago.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 19:44

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

Ok Comboomer posted:

Of course Apple had to go and do their requisite �Apple underwhelms on what should be a basic meat-and-potatoes spec upgrade if nothing else, after ~500 days, that literally every other manufacturer would do� with the Mini

Yeah I was hoping they'd up it to the 9th gen chips for octocore on the top end but no. Not that I'd buy right now cause I'm perfectly happy with my 2018 still, but it'd have been nice as a sign of getting back to basic regular updates for Macs in general. Course the Mac mini is the least likely to get that treatment so eh at least the other computers could still get updates.

Speaking of, the guy that mentioned a Mac mini update also said iMac coming too I think so wouldn't be surprised if that gets bumped in some fashion soon.

Bob Morales posted:

I wanna see Cinebench, multiple runs. WHERE IS NOTEBOOKCHECK.NET

Yeah I'm curious how much performance will dive over sustained periods.

hatty posted:

I wonder if Apple will let me swap my big honkin 16� for the new Air. I didn�t really need the power but it was the only thing out with the good keyboard when I needed to buy exactly one month ago.

Call them up, I've heard they're a bit more lenient around new computer releases vs the usual 14 days.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 20:15

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Sucks having to choose between a 13� and a 16�. Apple throw us a mid-sized bone!

# ? Mar 20, 2020 20:27

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

https://daringfireball.net/2020/03/the_2020_macbook_air

code:

 Geekbench 5 (average of two runs, single-core / multi-core):

SINGLE	MULTI
MacBook Air 2020 (4-core Core i5)		1,127	2,854
MacBook Air 2018 (2-core Core i5)		639	1,379
16" MacBook Pro 2019 (8-core Core i9)		1,263	7,277
13" MacBook Pro 2014 (2-core Core i7)		733	1,791
11" iPad Pro 2018 (8-core A12X)			1,118	4,477
iPhone 11 Pro (6-core A13)			1,321	3,387

Dang. Basically double the speed of the old Air (which was a turtle). 2015 owners...upgrade already.

The 2019 13" is around 1,000 and 3,900 FWIW

Bob Morales fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Mar 20, 2020

# ? Mar 20, 2020 20:43

Luceo: Apr 29, 2003; As predicted in the Bible.

Every time I accidentally look at Daring Fireball, I want to yell at Gruber for that obnoxiously narrow column of text.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 20:47

LionArcher: Mar 29, 2010

Bob Morales posted:

https://daringfireball.net/2020/03/the_2020_macbook_air
code:
 Geekbench 5 (average of two runs, single-core / multi-core):

SINGLE	MULTI
MacBook Air 2020 (4-core Core i5)		1,127	2,854
MacBook Air 2018 (2-core Core i5)		639	1,379
16" MacBook Pro 2019 (8-core Core i9)		1,263	7,277
13" MacBook Pro 2014 (2-core Core i7)		733	1,791
11" iPad Pro 2018 (8-core A12X)			1,118	4,477
iPhone 11 Pro (6-core A13)			1,321	3,387
Dang. Basically double the speed of the old Air (which was a turtle). 2015 owners...upgrade already.

The 2019 13" is around 1,000 and 3,900 FWIW

I have a 2015 MacBook Pro 13 inch... I bought it used last summer for $650. If this air had existed then, I would have bought it. As it stands I�ll wait a full year (I can�t just keep a computer for a year) before I�m willing to upgrade.

This update is great though 16 gigs 512 Gb SSD seems to be the sweet spot (I don�t know if the i7 is worth the upgrade if the most intense program I use is infinity photo.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 20:57

Mu Zeta: Oct 17, 2002; Me crush ass to dust

If it's like any other thin and light laptop with an i7 then no it's not worth it because throttling will knock it down anyway

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:13

EL BROMANCE: Jun 10, 2006; COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬

Bob Morales posted:

Dang. Basically double the speed of the old Air (which was a turtle). 2015 owners...upgrade already.

*stares at his 4gb/128gb 2011 model*

Hm. I didn't think I was in the market for a new laptop, but I'm starting to think I might be.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:19

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

LionArcher posted:

I have a 2015 MacBook Pro 13 inch... I bought it used last summer for $650. If this air had existed then, I would have bought it. As it stands I�ll wait a full year (I can�t just keep a computer for a year) before I�m willing to upgrade.

I meant the holdouts who were avoiding the new keyboard etc

"Processers haven't gotten any faster in the last 10 years anyways fuckin intel" :wotwot:

# ? Mar 20, 2020 21:41

eames: May 9, 2009

Yeah those Air benchmarks are super impressive, single core in particular. I might buy one for these for traveling (though it remains to be seen how much traveling I�ll do in the foreseeable future...), perhaps even with just 8GB because the 4GB RAM in my old Air never felt all that cramped for what I�m using it for.

# ? Mar 20, 2020 22:41

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

And in graphical form:

# ? Mar 20, 2020 23:13

Smeef: Aug 15, 2003; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!; Pillbug

I'm on a 12" MacBook from early 2016 and have loved it despite it being slower than a second generation iPod. It's just so drat light, and I'm constantly on the move for work. Even an Air feels like a brick in comparison.

But now it's time for an upgrade. The new Air looks fantastic, but the new iPad Pro is also very tempting...

I'm mainly using MS Office and web apps, albeit with a ton of multitasking. I work almost entirely from the keyboard and the search bar. Am I deluding myself into thinking there's a case for me to get an iPad Pro?

# ? Mar 21, 2020 00:42

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

Smeef posted:

I'm on a 12" MacBook from early 2016 and have loved it despite it being slower than a second generation iPod. It's just so drat light, and I'm constantly on the move for work. Even an Air feels like a brick in comparison.

But now it's time for an upgrade. The new Air looks fantastic, but the new iPad Pro is also very tempting...

I'm mainly using MS Office and web apps, albeit with a ton of multitasking. I work almost entirely from the keyboard and the search bar. Am I deluding myself into thinking there's a case for me to get an iPad Pro?

Really depends on what web apps and a ton of multitasking means in practice. Like if you can make it work with the iPad windowing/multitasking model (and who knows what changes might come with iOS 14), and if Safari can handle it all compatibility wise and if it can keep everything you need in memory while switching around.

The MBA will be my first notebook since...before the first iPad I think. And only really getting it cause it�s required for a class. It�ll be nice having a notebook instead of needing to remote into my Mac mini for random crap here and there. (Although with official mouse support it�ll be way nicer to remote in :v:

)

# ? Mar 21, 2020 01:39

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Video with benchmarks and thermal throttling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB1aP2OnUJA

# ? Mar 21, 2020 02:31

thetzar: Apr 22, 2001; Fallen Rib

The fact that my new Mac Mini won�t boot with FileVault enabled and connected to my Sonnet 560 eGPU puck (that I bought -from Apple-) is just... unacceptable.

But I guess I gotta accept it.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 03:36

Lazyhound: Mar 1, 2004; A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous—got me?

thetzar posted:

The fact that my new Mac Mini won�t boot with FileVault enabled and connected to my Sonnet 560 eGPU puck (that I bought -from Apple-) is just... unacceptable.

But I guess I gotta accept it.

Does your monitor have multiple inputs? IIRC it'll work if you boot off the mini's internal video out or something.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 05:24

BobHoward: Feb 13, 2012; The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

Bob Morales posted:

Video with benchmarks and thermal throttling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB1aP2OnUJA

* no signs of thermal throttling actually observed, looks like about what you'd expect for this kind of computer and processor

Man I hate how bad the tech press has done educating itself (and therefore the public) about what thermal throttling actually means on intel cpus. All that was shown there was Intel's power/turbo controller doing normal regulation to keep the CPU's long-term power consumption at 9W (its design rating) and junction temp at or below 100C (same), not it going into throttling to save itself from imminent damage. Throttling doesn't produce nice benchmark scores. It produces godawful ones, because throttling is not smooth homeostasis regulation, it's more akin to heatstroke.

Yes, youtube reviewer guy, you don't get full turbo speed on all cores on a 9W 4 core chip forever. That's kinda the deal with Turbo. It's most noticeable on these low power laptop chips, where there has to be a huge gap between peak and sustainable performance due to the limited power budget. As the power budget goes up, the gap generally shrinks.

(cranky engineer rant over)

# ? Mar 21, 2020 07:22

eames: May 9, 2009

I do feel like the quadcores might be a bit warmer than what the semi-passive chassis/thermal design was originally designed for.
A simple heatpipe with fins like the older MBAs had it would probably improve sustained performance significantly, but if you�re loading a MBA to the power/thermal limits for extended periods of time, you bought the wrong tool for the job and that�s neither Apple�s nor Intel�s fault. :shrug:

# ? Mar 21, 2020 08:10

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

The solution is clearly to wait until next year, when Apple will release a MBA that is .2 mm thicker but also 15% more powerful and 10 degrees cooler with the same chipset.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 10:10

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

BobHoward posted:

* no signs of thermal throttling actually observed, looks like about what you'd expect for this kind of computer and processor

Man I hate how bad the tech press has done educating itself (and therefore the public) about what thermal throttling actually means on intel cpus. All that was shown there was Intel's power/turbo controller doing normal regulation to keep the CPU's long-term power consumption at 9W (its design rating) and junction temp at or below 100C (same), not it going into throttling to save itself from imminent damage. Throttling doesn't produce nice benchmark scores. It produces godawful ones, because throttling is not smooth homeostasis regulation, it's more akin to heatstroke.

Yes, youtube reviewer guy, you don't get full turbo speed on all cores on a 9W 4 core chip forever. That's kinda the deal with Turbo. It's most noticeable on these low power laptop chips, where there has to be a huge gap between peak and sustainable performance due to the limited power budget. As the power budget goes up, the gap generally shrinks.

(cranky engineer rant over)

Hell from what he said, it was holding 1.47ghz...so it was still turbo boosting over the base clock of 1.1ghz!

Ok Comboomer posted:

The solution is clearly to wait until next year, when Apple will release a MBA that is .2 mm thicker but also 15% more powerful and 10 degrees cooler with the same chipset.

This one is already .5mm thicker than the last :ssh:

# ? Mar 21, 2020 11:31

Bob Morales: Aug 18, 2006; ~~Just wear the fucking mask, Bob~~

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Thermally limited would have been better for the thumbnail

# ? Mar 21, 2020 12:48

Evis: Feb 28, 2007; Flying Spaghetti Monster

thetzar posted:

The fact that my new Mac Mini won�t boot with FileVault enabled and connected to my Sonnet 560 eGPU puck (that I bought -from Apple-) is just... unacceptable.

But I guess I gotta accept it.

I believe it will actually boot, but you can�t see anything. If you type your password in after a bit, it�ll continue booting.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 16:47

thetzar: Apr 22, 2001; Fallen Rib

Evis posted:

I believe it will actually boot, but you can�t see anything. If you type your password in after a bit, it�ll continue booting.

Doesn�t work for me. I get a grey screen, typing my password get me nowhere.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 18:56

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208544

quote:

If you have a Mac mini (2018) with FileVault turned on, make sure to connect your primary display directly to Mac mini during startup. After you log in and see the macOS Desktop, you can unplug the display from Mac mini and connect it to your eGPU.

Weird that just typing the password doesn't work, how's the keyboard connected?

# ? Mar 21, 2020 19:09

BobHoward: Feb 13, 2012; The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull

If there are multiple user accounts it might need to go through user selection before typing the password.

# ? Mar 21, 2020 19:25

Housh: Jul 9, 2001

Sup fam. I hope you all are alive and well.

Did any good usb-c cables come out for 15" mbp power brick that comes in a super long length? I remember there was some google sheet with tested ones. Did that sort out?

# ? Mar 21, 2020 20:32

japtor: Oct 28, 2005

Housh posted:

Sup fam. I hope you all are alive and well.

Did any good usb-c cables come out for 15" mbp power brick that comes in a super long length? I remember there was some google sheet with tested ones. Did that sort out?

How long is super long? Apple 2 meter one is $14 on Amazon right now...which would be great but I don't know if I'd trust Amazon to separate the real from the counterfeits.

If you don't mind using the cable only for power (and/or USB 2.0 data), maybe this Cable Matters one or this Anker one (opposite colors for both are a dollar more :iiam:

). For a high power cable that can handle everything it looks like it'll be ~$30+ for that length (for recognizable brand names).

# ? Mar 21, 2020 23:07

Small White Dragon: Nov 23, 2007; No relation.

Probably gonna end up swapping out a few Macs this year.

For low-end stuff, is the regular MacBook gone? The Air is that all remains?

On the high-end, what's the likely gain from waiting for 10th generation chips in the MBP16?

# ? Mar 22, 2020 02:16

~Coxy: Dec 9, 2003; R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

BobHoward posted:

* no signs of thermal throttling actually observed, looks like about what you'd expect for this kind of computer and processor

Man I hate how bad the tech press has done educating itself (and therefore the public) about what thermal throttling actually means on intel cpus. All that was shown there was Intel's power/turbo controller doing normal regulation to keep the CPU's long-term power consumption at 9W (its design rating) and junction temp at or below 100C (same), not it going into throttling to save itself from imminent damage. Throttling doesn't produce nice benchmark scores. It produces godawful ones, because throttling is not smooth homeostasis regulation, it's more akin to heatstroke.

Yes, youtube reviewer guy, you don't get full turbo speed on all cores on a 9W 4 core chip forever. That's kinda the deal with Turbo. It's most noticeable on these low power laptop chips, where there has to be a huge gap between peak and sustainable performance due to the limited power budget. As the power budget goes up, the gap generally shrinks.

(cranky engineer rant over)

This is all true, but we're now living in this weird world where there's 10 laptops with the same CPU and wildly different performance levels based on thermal budget.

# ? Mar 22, 2020 13:27

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# ? May 30, 2024 10:06

fivehead: Jul 11, 2017; Americans Need Cash Now

Is there a reason to get the i7 in the 2020 MBA as opposed to the i5? Difference is $150 USD, which seems insane for marginal on paper differences.

# ? Mar 22, 2020 14:04

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