(Thread IKs:
Platystemon)
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Trabisnikof posted:and of course if we didn't live itt, a centralized public health monitoring system where your iot thermometer automatically notified your colleagues you won't be able to come into work, notified your doctor to check in on you, etc would be great. no, it would do the monitoring and reporting (along with the ads) but the information would be used punitively instead of benificially
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Mar 21, 2020 19:24
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https://mobile.twitter.com/Colettod/status/1241367291490701313 nothing wrong with ~smart thermometers~ but requiring an app means at some point your thermometer will stop working if you didn't charge your phone or upgrade when the company stops supporting your OS, which is bad enough when its your proprietary juicer or fish tank light, and exceptionally lovely when it's a product intended for medical diagnostics
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Mar 21, 2020 19:58
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Your temperature is just another piece of data that is added to what's known about you, and for absolutely no purpose other than the people making it want the data. There's literally no benefit to having it display on your phone vs a tiny LED panel on the device itself. Still better than people who have over all their biometric data to some of whatever for the sake of wearing a smart watch, but still.
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Mar 21, 2020 20:04
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bike tory posted:Your temperature is just another piece of data that is added to what's known about you. Still better than people who have over all their biometric data to some of whatever for the sake of wearing a smart watch, but still. they're using that data to find out if you're hot enough to be a tiktok influencer
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Mar 21, 2020 20:06
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/Colettod/status/1241367291490701313 The thermometers in question still have the display on the thermometer itself
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Mar 21, 2020 20:10
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bike tory posted:Your temperature is just another piece of data that is added to what's known about you, and for absolutely no purpose other than the people making it want the data. There's literally no benefit to having it display on your phone vs a tiny LED panel on the device itself. Still better than people who have over all their biometric data to some of whatever for the sake of wearing a smart watch, but still. i don't understand, what do they DO with this information? like what is the actual use of all of this data? getting the correct ads on your phone for every time you're fingering your rear end? cool great but WHY?
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Mar 21, 2020 20:10
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Pajser posted:i don't understand, what do they DO with this information? like what is the actual use of all of this data? getting the correct ads on your phone for every time you're fingering your rear end? cool great but WHY? it's largely useless but silicon valley VCs were easily convinced otherwise
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Mar 21, 2020 20:17
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Pajser posted:i don't understand, what do they DO with this information? like what is the actual use of all of this data? getting the correct ads on your phone for every time you're fingering your rear end? cool great but WHY? to sell to other companies you might think but what do those companies do with it??? and look it's just turtles all the way down. That's how the economy works
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Mar 21, 2020 20:17
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Pajser posted:i don't understand, what do they DO with this information? like what is the actual use of all of this data? getting the correct ads on your phone for every time you're fingering your rear end? cool great but WHY? Pretty frustrating that this is the same question I get from IRL people when I warn them about the implications of mass information gathering. Your information can be used to extrapolate things beyond your rear end fingering. This isn't hard to research and understand on your own, and should be obvious on its face
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Mar 21, 2020 20:18
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Gareth Gobulcoque posted:to sell to other companies I like turtles
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Mar 21, 2020 20:24
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Pajser posted:i don't understand, what do they DO with this information? like what is the actual use of all of this data? getting the correct ads on your phone for every time you're fingering your rear end? cool great but WHY? currently they shove it all into machine algorithm deep learning tan beds that turn out garbage that means nothing but can then be sold for millions of dollars to people who dont know what to do with it but it looks good on a slide show to present so they get promoted and it all goes into a database that no one understands but the economy keeps on humming and your sneaker ads have 3 less words in them because those 3 less words resulted in a 10% uptick on user engagement but no one knows if that user actually bought anything but whatever promotion time. in the future, surveillance and stuff like that weird guy above who wants his smart thermo to call his work for him.
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Mar 21, 2020 20:28
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Feral Integral posted:Pretty frustrating that this is the same question I get from IRL people when I warn them about the implications of mass information gathering. Your information can be used to extrapolate things beyond your rear end fingering. This isn't hard to research and understand on your own, and should be obvious on its face Giga Gaia posted:currently they shove it all into machine algorithm deep learning tan beds that turn out garbage that means nothing but can then be sold for millions of dollars to people who dont know what to do with it but it looks good on a slide show to present so they get promoted and it all goes into a database that no one understands but the economy keeps on humming and your sneaker ads have 3 less words in them because those 3 less words resulted in a 10% uptick on user engagement but no one knows if that user actually bought anything but whatever promotion time. so every time i post tramgh could be detrimental to my well being, if an rear end in a top hat government decides to deny me essential health service based on all of my trumgfs? lol, that owns
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Mar 21, 2020 20:40
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Pajser posted:i don't understand, what do they DO with this information? like what is the actual use of all of this data? getting the correct ads on your phone for every time you're fingering your rear end? cool great but WHY? Sell it to insurance providers, targeted ads (meds sure, but also air conditioners, heaters, insulation , use your imagination), whatever. People buy it.
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Mar 21, 2020 20:45
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Some quick guesses what could be done with thermometer app data: target specific ads, raise insurance premiums if you're sick a lot, tag you as high risk to for employers to hire if you're sick a lot
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Mar 21, 2020 20:49
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Also right now it’s a bunch of people trying to do data speculation. They don’t know how thermometer data will sell you more cars, but if they buy the data with an exclusivity deal for auto manufacturers then when someone figures it out, they’ll be the winner. It’s cargo culting at its finest.
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Mar 21, 2020 20:56
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Just off the top of my head, the obvious use of data on your like temperature, heart rate etc is for insurance companies looking for a reason to deny you coverage for conditions. Location is also an obvious one, police now routinely use location data as a drag net in criminal investigations. The whole Cambridge analytica thing is a pretty good example of how personal data can be used for very nefarious purposes. I haven't thought particularly hard about this either, but you don't need much imagination to come up with some obvious harmful uses of all the personal data that's being accumulated about you. And consider that there are plenty of people who's job is to think up novel uses for this sort of poo poo, well beyond just trying to sell you cold medications when you've got a fever. "If you build it, they will come", basically.
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Mar 21, 2020 21:12
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Getting health information collected in bulk without HIPAA restrictions seems like an easy sell in the hellworld that is the USA health system.
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Mar 21, 2020 21:20
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bike tory posted:Just off the top of my head, the obvious use of data on your like temperature, heart rate etc is for insurance companies looking for a reason to deny you coverage for conditions. Location is also an obvious one, police now routinely use location data as a drag net in criminal investigations. The whole Cambridge analytica thing is a pretty good example of how personal data can be used for very nefarious purposes. Dont forget that car insurance companies were raising rates on people for internal metrics they skimmed from credit like "bought tires that didnt cost enough", "went to a bar at some point last year", and other bullshit.
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Mar 21, 2020 21:46
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Pajser posted:i don't understand, what do they DO with this information? like what is the actual use of all of this data? getting the correct ads on your phone for every time you're fingering your rear end? cool great but WHY? the insidiousness of it is that the individual pieces of data don't seem like they would be useful at all, eg: your thermostat settings but basically you can sell data, so everybody wants it
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Mar 21, 2020 21:50
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fish light? no sorry i meant flesh light. silly autocorrect
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Mar 21, 2020 22:48
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Associate Christ
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a lot of benign data can get rather nasty when you can collate a lot of it and plot out correlations. advertisers of course love it but it could be used to do things like gently caress with your credit score, deny you job opportunities, raise your insurance rates, or face legal discrimination when some random combination of your butt temperature, favorite colored lights, and sneeze frequency thrown into a vat monitored by some trained algorithm is able you deduce your personality profile and statistical probability for various actions or vulnerability to persuasive tactics. And thats assuming its done competently: your life can still get wrecked when that data is instead combined with handwriting analysis by some dude named Stu Fyattburg II resulting in some unvetted learning algorithm deciding you're in the 99th percentile for being an insolvent pedophile witch doctor.
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Mar 21, 2020 23:01
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Tiler Kiwi posted:a lot of benign data can get rather nasty when you can collate a lot of it and plot out correlations. advertisers of course love it but it could be used to do things like gently caress with your credit score, deny you job opportunities, raise your insurance rates, or face legal discrimination when some random combination of your butt temperature, favorite colored lights, and sneeze frequency thrown into a vat monitored by some trained algorithm is able you deduce your personality profile and statistical probability for various actions or vulnerability to persuasive tactics. And thats assuming its done competently: your life can still get wrecked when that data is instead combined with handwriting analysis by some dude named Stu Fyattburg II resulting in some unvetted learning algorithm deciding you're in the 99th percentile for being an insolvent pedophile witch doctor. Don't know if it's true or not, but people are looking to do that poo poo. And something like that would be very easy to weaponize.
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Mar 22, 2020 09:12
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Pajser posted:i don't understand, what do they DO with this information? like what is the actual use of all of this data? getting the correct ads on your phone for every time you're fingering your rear end? cool great but WHY? Basically what everyone already said. It's sort of like currency or any system of value. Dollar bills are just pieces of paper, but everyone believes they are valuable, so they are. Marketing / data mining companies take this information and basically just sell it to each other, even if they don't do anything particularly useful with it. Maybe they aggregate it or calculate a new metric on it, but they don't extract really meaningful stuff. Take a look at this graphic at about how many new marketing related technologies are introduced each year.  There is an enormous amount of redundancy. Here's 2019 
Goon Boots has issued a correction as of 10:03 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 22, 2020 09:59
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hell even a few years back, marketing algorithms were already 'figuring out' that people were pregnant before they themselves knew and advertising a bunch of baby poo poo at them easy to see how that can go bad for someone in hell world whether they're actually pregnant or the dumb robot got it wrong abusive partners / parents / employers spotting the diaper ads on your phone and circling round going YOU WHOOOOORE vaguely has issued a correction as of 12:39 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 22, 2020 12:36
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vaguely posted:hell even a few years back, marketing algorithms were already 'figuring out' that people were pregnant before they themselves knew and advertising a bunch of baby poo poo at them I thought the story was the woman knew she was pregnant, but was outed to her parents before she told them because she bought a bunch of baby poo poo at target and then they started sending fliers to buy more to her parents thinking she still lived there. I wouldn't be surprised if what you're describing also happened, but the one I think I remember reading wasn't a shocking feat of machine learning or anything. Still dystopian tho
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Mar 22, 2020 15:28
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She bought prenatal vitamins. Something of a tell.
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Mar 22, 2020 15:29
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Thanatosian posted:There was a woman being interviewed on NPR awhile back who was an academic researcher who said she had built an algorithm that could tell if someone was gay or not based upon their Facebook profile, even if they weren't out, with some ridiculous level of accuracy. how did she validate that algorithm, did she go around asking ppl if they’re secretly gay?
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Mar 22, 2020 15:31
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BillyCorben/status/1241747894304210945
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Mar 22, 2020 17:19
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:how did she validate that algorithm, did she go around asking ppl if they’re secretly gay? It doesn't matter if it misses sometimes, only that it gets it right most of the time. Also they can 'validate' these algorithms based on how many people end up clicking the ad that's targeted to them. You start off training the algorithm on profiles that list that they are gay and train your program to find commonalities in these profiles to suss out what other profiles might belong to a gay person, even if they havent listed that they are gay. These people are some percentage likely gay and with lots of data and good model training it ends up being right a lot of the time Substitute 'being gay' for any trait you want to select for Feral Integral has issued a correction as of 18:19 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 22, 2020 18:10
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Feral Integral posted:It doesn't matter if it misses sometimes, only that it gets it right most of the time. This is the fun part of a lot of "academic research" on facebook, where if you work with someone at facebook you're allowed to run massively unethical experiments and cause harm or risk to your participants without informed consent, since facebook's internal irb will approve anything they want. And the ability to use absurd methods like "if you clicked the ad that says 'I am gay' it means you're gay" is just gravy.
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Mar 22, 2020 18:25
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Basically https://twitter.com/dril/status/1061091401251745792
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Mar 22, 2020 19:15
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Trabisnikof posted:This is the fun part of a lot of "academic research" on facebook, where if you work with someone at facebook you're allowed to run massively unethical experiments and cause harm or risk to your participants without informed consent, since facebook's internal irb will approve anything they want. I havent done web marketing for years but when i was you could just sign up for facebook ads and go to town, didnt need to talk to anyone or do anything other than make an account and add a credit card and boom away you go
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Mar 22, 2020 19:23
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Feral Integral posted:I havent done web marketing for years but when i was you could just sign up for facebook ads and go to town, didnt need to talk to anyone or do anything other than make an account and add a credit card and boom away you go Facebook was allowing blatant redlining until like a year ago lol
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Mar 22, 2020 19:29
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oh yeah facebook making teens suicidal by messing with their recommends and mentions and then telling advertisers that depressed people are easier to sell poo poo to
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Mar 22, 2020 19:36
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a lot of the hype you hear about machine learning and data mining is extremely selective and doesn’t talk about their massive false positive rates (an inherent problem with data mining), unreliability, and black box problems. it doesn’t really work but people think it does so the consequences are real.
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Mar 22, 2020 19:48
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Feral Integral posted:Also they can 'validate' these algorithms based on how many people end up clicking the ad that's targeted to them. hmmm sounds like facebook is systematically identifying and targeting the most vulnerable sexually-confused young men for recruitment into the homosexual lifestyle by bombarding them with grindr profiles until they give in to temptation. has anyone told mike pence??? he's gunna be furious at facebook for this until they agree to give him access to their lists
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Mar 22, 2020 20:21
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sugar free jazz posted:a lot of the hype you hear about machine learning and data mining is extremely selective and doesn’t talk about their massive false positive rates (an inherent problem with data mining), unreliability, and black box problems. This is one of the frustrating things about how machine learning is applied. In order to have a better understanding of its limitations, you need to have solid knowledge of concepts in probability and statistics, but it's been made relatively easy for anyone with basic programming knowledge (sometimes even without programming knowledge!) to go out and slap together some machine learning libraries, feed it some data, and get a result. They don't even know that the result they get might have issues, what those issues might be, and how to ameliorate them.
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Mar 22, 2020 22:09
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:has anyone told mike pence??? he's gunna be furious at facebook for this until they agree to give him access to their lists
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Mar 22, 2020 22:18
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Goon Boots posted:This is one of the frustrating things about how machine learning is applied. In order to have a better understanding of its limitations, you need to have solid knowledge of concepts in probability and statistics, but it's been made relatively easy for anyone with basic programming knowledge (sometimes even without programming knowledge!) to go out and slap together some machine learning libraries, feed it some data, and get a result. They don't even know that the result they get might have issues, what those issues might be, and how to ameliorate them. I think you are conflating some things here. Not all machine learning works like ganns or stuff goes in the black box stuff comes out. The point is people can extrapolate a lot of things you might not realize from data points that dont necessarily seem related. Even if they are using a black box gan or something to generate marketing campaigns/target audiences its easy to verify the results through a little cheap a/b testing and then just select the ones that work. Goon Boots posted:Oh definitely right on that. I just wanted to gripe about those aspects of machine learning. I got u and completely agree. computer touchers are very frustrating in general and tend to have terrible moral compasses in my real life experience with coworkers. brain-poisoned libertarian, opportunistic dum-dum spoiled rich white kids i need to stop signing my posts Feral Integral has issued a correction as of 23:29 on Mar 22, 2020 |
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Mar 22, 2020 22:34
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Feral Integral posted:I think you are conflating some things here. Not all machine learning works like ganns or stuff goes in the black box stuff comes out. Oh definitely right on that. I just wanted to gripe about those aspects of machine learning.
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Mar 22, 2020 22:45
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