|
I wonder what’s going to come out of this looking better. Trains use many fewer personnel to move the same goods, which has definite advantages at a time like these. They are less flexible in adapting to changes in where goods are coming from or going to, a clear disadvantage.
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 14:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 23:59 |
|
|
In the US, Aren't deisel and gas taxes paying for the upkeep of interstate highways? So how do trucks/trucking companies not pay for the upkeep, then? Local roads I get since those are supposedly funded by local property taxes, but is the deisel/gas tax just not enough to cover the wear large trucks do, or what?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 14:34
|
|
|
DelphiAegis posted:In the US, Aren't deisel and gas taxes paying for the upkeep of interstate highways? So how do trucks/trucking companies not pay for the upkeep, then? Bingo. Road damage goes up with the fourth power of axle weight. A semi truck may use four times as much fuel as a pickup truck, but if it has eight times the axle weight, it’s doing four thousand times as much damage.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 14:38
|
|
|
DelphiAegis posted:In the US, Aren't deisel and gas taxes paying for the upkeep of interstate highways? So how do trucks/trucking companies not pay for the upkeep, then? The amount of money they pays is dramatically disproportionate to the amount of wear that they cause, because the taxes are levied per gallon of fuel. A family car pays the same per gallon tax as a truck, and a truck pays the same per gallon tax regardless of whether it's carrying a load of feather pillows or rolled steel. This is exascerbated by the fact that heavier loads cause much more damage. And by "heavier" I mean "heavier than a family car." Multiple orders of magnitude. From what I recall the last time I read up on this we're talking in the "thousands of times more wear" ballpark, to the point where the damage caused by all the personal vehicles out there is a fraction of the damage caused by shipping. So the relatively small number of commercial vehicles causing the vast majority of the damage are paying taxes, but they're paying a tiny amount compared to what they're doing to the roads. If road wear was priced appropriately every vehicle would pay a different per-mile tax based on its gross weight, and that tax would go up gently caress near logarithmicly with weight.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 14:41
|
|
|
Gotcha. Fair point. And capitalism being what it is, the trucker's lobby to keep deisel prices down because otherwise doing so would cut into So normal poo poo hole American economics. Peachy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 14:44
|
|
|
Do EU countries address road wear and tear done by heavy commercial vehicles? I know they use similar trucks and loads to USA, I guess they probably tax those vehicles and companies at a higher rate?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 14:51
|
|
|
Icon Of Sin posted:Nobody wants a Swift truck to stop moving, but they just do it erratically as part of their normal behavior. Sometimes they spontaneously catch fire too.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 14:55
|
|
|
Swift truck thought of safety and careened into a ditch.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 15:21
|
|
|
Rad-daddio posted:Do EU countries address road wear and tear done by heavy commercial vehicles? I know they use similar trucks and loads to USA, I guess they probably tax those vehicles and companies at a higher rate? In NZ, diesel vehicles pay Road User Charges based on their gross weight instead of a fuel tax. They also get cheaper if you're spreading that weight over more axles (which causes less damage to the road).
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 15:26
|
|
|
Cartoon Man posted:https://i.imgur.com/i3w6AFo.mp4 Italian mayors are not loving around.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 15:27
|
|
|
     As a new SWIFT trucking employee, you are responsible for upholding the company image your customers have come to expect! Delivery ahead of schedule/or on time? DITCH FOR SAFETY! SWIFT: Ditch for safety
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 15:27
|
|
|
LifeSunDeath posted:
Swift Truck Veterans for Truth
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 15:31
|
|
|
Pigsfeet on Rye posted:Swift Truck Veterans for Truth 
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 15:34
|
|
|
I've been to the SWIFT HQ multiple times. It is about as bleak as you could imagine. Plus, they still use green screens for scheduling, among other things.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 15:53
|
|
|
Jabor posted:In NZ, diesel vehicles pay Road User Charges based on their gross weight instead of a fuel tax. The US also has such a tax. https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/hvut/mod1/whatishvut.cfm
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 16:01
|
|
|
Phanatic posted:The US also has such a tax. quote:Gross Taxable Weight Heavy Vehicle Use Tax Rates  NZ is by 1,000km traveled, and is MUCH more money. https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/licensing-rego/road-user-charges/ruc-rates-and-transaction-fees/#RUC-rates-for-distance-licences-powered A "standard" US Semi truck/trailer would be: One Type 6 (Powered vehicles with three axles), more than 18 tonnes: $412/1000km One Type 29 (Unpowered vehicles with two twin-tyred, or single large-tyred close axles), more than 10 tonnes: $132/1000km Or more likely, it would fall into the Type H category, which is even more if it's overweight. The US has very-much provided incentives to the trucking companies. I'm sure some of it is due to high labor participation and strong union presence.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 17:01
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 17:54
|
|
|
Even the USCSB is putting out remasters now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 18:25
|
|
|
How many people actually know (or care) about the economics of road damage though? Trucks are subject to the same NIMBYism that affects just about every other part of our infrastructure. Vanishingly few people are against the idea and the benefits of road based goods transport, but a huge segment of the population are dead against the downsides, some very reasonably concerned about potential safety issues but also a whole lot of "I don't want these big vehicles driving past MY house" and "bloody truckers slowing down MY journey". I do think it's useful to remind people of the importance of logistics, though truckers do tend to get a bit overly evangelical about the whole thing (not that the rail/air/marine transport industries are often asked to justify their existence to the public).
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 18:30
|
|
|
Deformed Church posted:How many people actually know (or care) about the economics of road damage though? I'm not against trucking at all. I just laugh when people say the HVUT covers the added damage. You just need to drive on I-78 around Allentown to know the damage the trucks cause. Is it justified that the taxpayer is subsidizing the roads? I think so. Living in America means you have access to the most sophisticated and fast logistics system in the world. I mean, where else could I order some oddball item from my phone for next-day delivery? If I lived in a major city, there's a good chance that it would be same-day if it was a common item. Americans are freaking out now that this system is starting to slow down, but man... we've had an amazingly good run for years. Sure, it's bad for the environment and Amazon is abusive to labor and their suppliers, but those are the costs for the benefit they provide. Is it worth it for you to support that system? That's on the individual to decide, and for the government to legislate.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 18:44
|
|
|
I got laid off from Central Transport the day after the 82-year old billionaire owner went to prison for ignoring a court order and not fixing the roads leading to the Ambassador Bridge (which he owned) in Dearborn MI. He bought property / actively blocked competing crossings in the area which resulted in the roads around the bridge getting shredded by the truck traffic. Fun bonus: When I and the other managers who were laid off applied for unemployment we discovered that a Canadian sister company that the guy owned was cutting duplicate paychecks in our names.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 18:57
|
|
|
I'd be fine going back to waiting a week or two for delivery if what we get out of instant delivery is Amazon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 18:57
|
|
|
Yeah I 100% agree. A lot of the other parts of the system suck poo poo but honestly goods transport is an incredible marvel and it's a real shame most people have basically no idea how anything works. I'd love for more of my tax money to go to infrastructure maintenace, it's absolutely up there with education and healthcare as the most important things we should be spending on. I do think we need to find a way of closing the labour loopholes, eating bezos, redistributing his wealth (maybe into road surfacing), and transferring more of the system to cleaner forms of energy, but I can't deny I love being able to forget someone's birthday is coming up until like 24 hours before. In content news, it's not a fun picture but I opened my email this morning to find a callout report that boils down to: "the fire alarm has been sounding for about half an hour in the communal part of this building, should we do something?" "is there a fire" "no, I've had a look around and I can't actually see any fire so I guess just an alarm engineer will do" stretched over an hour, and I'm sure I'm going to be a drunk before this working from home thing is over.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 19:05
|
|
|
Ornamental Dingbat posted:I got laid off from Central Transport the day after the 82-year old billionaire owner went to prison for ignoring a court order and not fixing the roads leading to the Ambassador Bridge (which he owned) in Dearborn MI. God Matty Moroun is such a huge piece of poo poo. I hadn't heard about the duplicate paychecks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 19:26
|
|
|
Ornamental Dingbat posted:we discovered that a Canadian sister company that the guy owned was cutting duplicate paychecks in our names. So what's the scam here? Some kind of payroll fuckery that benefits the company?
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 20:59
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:So what's the scam here? Some kind of payroll fuckery that benefits the company? Embezzlement most likely. Though payroll and unemployment tax fraud are also a possibility.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 21:03
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:So what's the scam here? Some kind of payroll fuckery that benefits the company? Never found out. The lady on the phone with unemployment just went "aha" when I told her I didn't work at that company and moved on. It just sounded like a regular thing until I spoke with a few other laid off managers. They were notorious for loving with paychecks, you always got a live check- they refused to do direct deposit. Nth Doctor posted:God Matty Moroun is such a huge piece of poo poo. I hadn't heard about the duplicate paychecks. He had a funny way of blowing off steam in meetings- he would halt the meeting and call a random location he owned and lay into whoever answered the phone- you'd pick up and his assistant would say that they're transferring you to Mr. Moroun and a billionaire would come on and instantly start yelling about how much of a useless piece of poo poo you were.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
It makes you think about how they became billionaires
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 21:12
|
|
|
"Self-made billionaire entrepreneur" Really any career in trucking just consists of bouncing between employment by different organized crime families. I guess a lot of jobs are like that but it's just a lot more obvious in this industry.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 21:42
|
|
|
DelphiAegis posted:Gotcha. Fair point. And capitalism being what it is, the trucker's lobby to keep deisel prices down because otherwise doing so would cut into Also they have been hammered from a wage perspective. After deregulation Truckers saw wages plumet in the 80's and then hammered again during the Great Recession. While most people have seen wage stagnation, their wages have dropped.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 22:39
|
|
|
DelphiAegis posted:Gotcha. Fair point. And capitalism being what it is, the trucker's lobby to keep deisel prices down because otherwise doing so would cut into Please, it’s “diesel”.  (actually technically German 101 because Rudolph Diesel was German).sharkytm posted:
Off the top of my head, Canada, Japan, the UK, France, Germany, probably also China, Italy, Russia and more. drgitlin fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Mar 24, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2020 23:57
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:Off the top of my head, Canada, Japan, the UK, France, Germany, probably also China, Italy, Russia and more. I'm not sure you've ever interacted with Canada Post or the Royal Mail if you think this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2020 01:54
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/CrownAndJoke/status/1242186052607062016?s=20
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2020 02:43
|
|
|
Cyrano4747 posted:the way that trucks really do a number on interstates (which means the industry is effectively subsidized by highway taxes, as they don't pay for the wear they cause), Cyrano4747 posted:From what I recall the last time I read up on this we're talking in the "thousands of times more wear" ballpark, to the point where the damage caused by all the personal vehicles out there is a fraction of the damage caused by shipping. Platystemon posted:it’s doing four thousand times as much damage. Depending on specific estimates, it's between 2000 (in Hawaii as determined by the local asphalt paving industry), to 5000; "Fwa" posted:It is generally accepted that structural damage of road pavements caused by traffic is mainly a result of the axle loads imposed by trucks. This observation is clearly reflected in the equivalent traffic load computations used by pavement researchers and highway agencies in pavement design and pavement performance analysis (1-4). For example, in terms of the AASHTO equivalent single-axle load (ESAL) (5), one tractor-semitrailer combination is equivalent to about 2.0 ESALs, one bus to about 0.39 ESAL, and one passenger car to only 0.0004 ESAL. In terms of designing roads (for pavement structural purposes only, not traffic), passenger cars are typically neglected, only vehicles Class 4 and above are considered. I wrote a big effortpost on this when the state was considering raising gas taxes, but not also raising taxes on diesel. Part of the rationale was specifically because of "poor road condition", but the vast majority of vehicles using gas aren't really doing damage.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2020 02:54
|
|
|
The front fell off https://i.imgur.com/ibosIQM.mp4 xposting from the aeronautics thread in Automotive Insanity
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2020 03:09
|
|
|
Is it supposed to do that?
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2020 03:27
|
|
|
Cojawfee posted:Is it supposed to do that? https://i.imgur.com/SmpBHzf.mp4 ed: found a better link Deteriorata fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Mar 24, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2020 03:33
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:Please, it’s “diesel”. I'm a terrible phone poster.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2020 04:14
|
|
|
Just two thirsty birds, trying to take a drink.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2020 04:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 23:59 |
|
|
Deteriorata posted:https://i.imgur.com/SmpBHzf.mp4  Why couldn't this be a fixed thing? I guess other than to add a cool mil or so to the manufacture price I guess.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2020 04:31
|
|
