Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Uthor
Jul 9, 2006

Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.

HelloIAmYourHeart posted:

Caitlin Doughty (Ask A Mortician)

Click!

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

ekuNNN
Nov 27, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Pennywise the Frown posted:

That's a coffee carafe, not hand sanitizer.

https://i.imgur.com/13KUrbl.mp4

Lake of Methane
Oct 29, 2011

Cojawfee posted:

Do you have any evidence of this? That doesn't make any sense. Nearly every fighter then had a long nose and was a tail dragger. I've never heard of any other plane requiring standing on the seat to land. Especially because landing would require yaw control and standing on the seat would mean the pilot couldn't operate the rudder pedals, nor could they operate the brakes. I did some cursory research, and it seems like a lot of planes were lost due to the configuration of the front landing gear being angled or something.

I dunno about leaving one's seat, but the FAA says, "In [tailwheel] aircraft that are completely blind ahead, all taxi movements should be started with a small turn to ensure no other plane or ground vehicle has positioned itself directly under the nose while the pilot’s attention was distracted with getting ready to takeoff. In taxiing such an airplane, the pilot should alternately turn the nose from one side to the other (zigzag) or make a series of short S-turns."

AFewBricksShy
Jun 19, 2003

of a full load.



Ugly In The Morning posted:

Which one did you use? I did mine through Advance Online and it was brutally boring to actually get through but it did the job well enough.

University of South Florida through american safety council.

FuturePastNow
May 19, 2014


Lake of Methane posted:

I dunno about leaving one's seat, but the FAA says, "In [tailwheel] aircraft that are completely blind ahead, all taxi movements should be started with a small turn to ensure no other plane or ground vehicle has positioned itself directly under the nose while the pilot’s attention was distracted with getting ready to takeoff. In taxiing such an airplane, the pilot should alternately turn the nose from one side to the other (zigzag) or make a series of short S-turns."



I've seen that before but I just realized an Avenger pilot is sitting up higher than a semi driver

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




FuturePastNow posted:

I've seen that before but I just realized an Avenger pilot is sitting up higher than a semi driver

I've stood under one, the Avenger is a goddamned enormous airplane. Especially for a single-engined plane.

small ghost
Jan 30, 2013

drgitlin posted:

Do you think USPS is the company doing same-day Amazon Prime delivery? There are private courier companies in the UK and I’m sure Canada too.

Im also confused by this claim re delivery logistics in other countries because i live in the UK and use same day delivery constantly for work, for emergency parts, from Amazon and other providers, and my company actually does next and same day shipping for our goods, for which we subcontract to a courier; so the answer to "where else in the world can you order something on your phone and get it shipped to you same day?" is "a lot of countries" in my experience. Hey, I even managed to get something same-day'd from the Netherlands once, albeit it usually takes a few days between countries, that was a bit of a one off.

Edit: also I don't have particularly strong feelings either way on royal mail but we use them to ship subscriptions and they lose and damage less parcels than the private couriers do, and deliver consistently on time for hundreds of postal packages a week for a fraction of the cost. I'm sure it's worse in rural areas but that feels like a weird pro-privatisation Tory talking point.

small ghost fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Mar 25, 2020

Aramoro
Jun 1, 2012




Cyrano4747 posted:

Have you met old people?

It;s also pretty cultural. If you go somewhere like Turkey people will pick up and play with your kid without asking because why would you ask? Everyone loves kids and kids love someone to play with etc.

Cartoon Man
Jan 31, 2004


https://i.imgur.com/GuupEL8.gifv

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goSEyGNfiPM

We're gettin a CSB video game! :haw:

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day

drat, these videos are intense.

Ixian
Oct 9, 2001

Many machines on Ix....new machines
Pillbug

Lake of Methane posted:

I dunno about leaving one's seat, but the FAA says, "In [tailwheel] aircraft that are completely blind ahead, all taxi movements should be started with a small turn to ensure no other plane or ground vehicle has positioned itself directly under the nose while the pilot’s attention was distracted with getting ready to takeoff. In taxiing such an airplane, the pilot should alternately turn the nose from one side to the other (zigzag) or make a series of short S-turns."


No one disputes that and the practice continues with that type of aircraft configuration. It's the whole "stand on the seat even though that means you can't control the rudder pedals which is how you steer the plane on the ground" aspect that has those of us who have flown scratching our heads. Not to mention yaw control which is something you'll want to have available on a landing approach.

Ixian fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Mar 25, 2020

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003
luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.
Edit- nm. The world doesn’t need another pointless argument right now.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die
Nap Ghost
if this took place on a treadmill there would be no issue

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Ixian posted:

No one disputes that and the practice continues with that type of aircraft configuration. It's the whole "stand on the seat even though that means you can't control the rudder pedals which is how you steer the plane on the ground" aspect that has those of us who have flown scratching our heads. Not to mention yaw control which is something you'll want to have available on a landing approach.

If you were standing on a Bf 109's seat, you couldn't control anything except the stick at best, and you'd probably be trying to move it with your feet. Because the plane was designed by a normal person, all of the controls are placed so you can reach them while sitting. It makes as much sense as saying you need to stand on your car seat and stick your head out the sunroof to park.

dog nougat
Apr 8, 2009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcUm6buFlb8

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

Ixian posted:

No one disputes that and the practice continues with that type of aircraft configuration. It's the whole "stand on the seat even though that means you can't control the rudder pedals which is how you steer the plane on the ground" aspect that has those of us who have flown scratching our heads. Not to mention yaw control which is something you'll want to have available on a landing approach.

My source was an old Romanian fighter pilot who had flown Bf 109s post-war. He'd been invited over by my employer at that time to provide some historical context for a game that we made. He told us a bunch of super cool stories, one of which was how hard it was to land the 109, due to the extreme angle of attack and the very long landing gear. He was talking to us in Russian, which I don't speak super fluently, but I got the part about being outside the cockpit to get lined up. I guess he could have meant unstrapping and leaning real far out of the open canopy.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Helen Highwater posted:

My source was an old Romanian fighter pilot who had flown Bf 109s post-war. He'd been invited over by my employer at that time to provide some historical context for a game that we made. He told us a bunch of super cool stories, one of which was how hard it was to land the 109, due to the extreme angle of attack and the very long landing gear. He was talking to us in Russian, which I don't speak super fluently, but I got the part about being outside the cockpit to get lined up. I guess he could have meant unstrapping and leaning real far out of the open canopy.

There's lots of videos of people landing them without needing to do that, so maybe he just sucked.

Ornamental Dingbat
Feb 26, 2007


Love that tire wobble at 5:32

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day
Osha news from the healthcare world. My gf works at a hospital and they are running out of PPE rapidly. The lab people have been instructed to wear bandanas due to shortages of N95's. The local hospitals within the company decided their hospital was going to be the dumping ground for corona patients, so a bunch have shown up this week. They "converted" part of the hospital to negative pressure isolation rooms...they achieved this by removing the windows and putting in fans, and duct taping them to seal. The epidemiology doctor had not been informed any of this was happening so dropped a dime on them, the county came and saw the setup, the duct tape was falling off due to humidity, and there was no negative pressure in the rooms...so they've now been shipping patients out of there en masse. The area where the isolation rooms were setup was in a critical unit with non corona critical patients. I'm working home health, and we can go to the office and get one mask per day...we have been instructed to use it between patients. This whole thing is a cluster gently caress.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006

Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Helen Highwater posted:

My source was an old Romanian fighter pilot who had flown Bf 109s post-war. He'd been invited over by my employer at that time to provide some historical context for a game that we made. He told us a bunch of super cool stories, one of which was how hard it was to land the 109, due to the extreme angle of attack and the very long landing gear. He was talking to us in Russian, which I don't speak super fluently, but I got the part about being outside the cockpit to get lined up. I guess he could have meant unstrapping and leaning real far out of the open canopy.

Or he could have been an old man feeding you a line, or a joke that didn't translate well across the linguistic barrier. Or civilian/military barrier.

"Is person vet embellishing, underplaying, or just straight bullshitting me" is a serious issue in any kind of oral history. Not to mention the general issues with memories and how they're constructed. Not even just failing memories in old people, but how memory itself is constructed and how we incorporate things we've heard into our memories without even meaning too.

Here's a good example. A prominent holocaust historian I worked with for a bit was writing a book about a particular work camp that, later in the war, was evacuated to Auschwitz. One of the survivors told him in very vivid, clear detail how the train they took to the camp went through the gates, up to the train platform, and they had the famous selection process that we've all seen in a million movies. You know, an SS doctor standing up there sending some people one direction to work and others in another to get gassed right away.

Problem: that never happened to her. There were extensive archival records (and other survivor testimony) about how the tracks leading to the camp had been damaged (I believe in a bombing raid) and the train had to stop a few miles outside the camp and the prisoners were marched in. There is no way that she experienced what she said she did. To make it even more interesting, this work camp had a fair number of adolescents who normally would have been gassed straight away when they got to Auschwitz, but because of the unusual circumstances the whole transport was marched into the work part of the new camp, so no one was killed right off the bat. This was part of why there was such an unusual cluster of survivors from that original work camp that was evacuated to Auschwitz, and almost certainly why this particular woman survived. If she had gone through what she described she almost certainly would have gone to the gas chambers.

So was she lying? Not intentionally. But over the ~60 years between her showing up at Auschwitz and this interview the scene of the train pulling up to that platform and the selection process had become utterly iconic. She could have been telling the story she thought people wanted to hear, or constant exposure to that other narrative could have basically overwritten her own memory. It also doesn't help that the event she was trying to remember was incredibly traumatic, happened when she was young-ish, and happened under extremely stressful circumstances. One of the things that he only heard from survivors very quietly and usually with admonitions not to put it in his book was the issue of sexual assault on the train and on the march. Not from guards, but between the prisoners. Apparently there were some predators in there. So it easily could be that she had to deal with some extra-horrific poo poo on that particular journey and when friends and family asked her about it years later she substituted the more palatable, iconic scene for the awful, dreary, rapey one that she really did experience, and after enough repetitions and enough decades it pretty much became the truth for her.

So, yeah. Talking to old people about poo poo they experienced when they were young is important and needs to be a component of the historical record, but holy FUUUUCK does it have some major problems and you can't just accept it as god's own truth because "they were there so they know."

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
If there was a language barrier, it was likely the guy said something along the lines of "you pretty much had to stand on the seat in order to see where you were landing" which got lost in translation as "in order to land it, you have to stand on the seat". Idioms and sarcasm don't translate well.

MRC48B
Apr 2, 2012

Powershift posted:


We're gettin a CSB video game! :haw:

The contractors went to a "No lost time" lunch the day of the accident :negative:

BalloonFish
Jun 30, 2013



Fun Shoe

Helen Highwater posted:

My source was an old Romanian fighter pilot who had flown Bf 109s post-war. He'd been invited over by my employer at that time to provide some historical context for a game that we made. He told us a bunch of super cool stories, one of which was how hard it was to land the 109, due to the extreme angle of attack and the very long landing gear. He was talking to us in Russian, which I don't speak super fluently, but I got the part about being outside the cockpit to get lined up. I guess he could have meant unstrapping and leaning real far out of the open canopy.

That bit certainly is true - even amongst 1000+hp taildragger fighters, none of which are especially easy to take off and land, the Bf109 had/has a terrible reputation. Even by the standards of its peers, it has particularly bad visibility over the nose and the landing gear is too narrow, too weak and has the legs both canted forward and splayed out so it's kinda running on the tyre shoulders. Like a lot of pre-war-design aircraft it was also primarily intended to operate from airfields rather than proper runways. When you're operating from a literal field you can always take off and land directly into the wind, which is a big benefit when you're flying a particularly squirrely taildragger like the 109. None of them were nice to operate in any sort of cross-wind and, again, the 109 was more unpleasant than average.

But having to literally stand on the seat? Nah. For all the reasons others have already said - the one control you really want to use a lot of in a landing in a taildragger is the rudder, and if you stand on the seat that's the one control you have no hope of using!

Cojawfee posted:

If there was a language barrier, it was likely the guy said something along the lines of "you pretty much had to stand on the seat in order to see where you were landing" which got lost in translation as "in order to land it, you have to stand on the seat". Idioms and sarcasm don't translate well.

I think this is what it was. You can find the expression "having to virtually stand on the rudder pedal" in flight reports/tests of other high-performance aircraft, referring to either the massive leftward swing they get under acceleration on take-off or the strong desire of the plane to weather-vane into the wind in any sort of crosswind landing. It's descriptive hyperbole but it woudn't translate well from English to Romanian and back to English again.

You can read about Spitfire pilots saying things like they "practically had to get out onto the wing" when talking about taxiing on the ground. The Spitfire also had pretty bad ground visibility and narrow undercarriage so the SOP was to have an aircraftman at each wing tip to help guide the plane, stop the pilot running into/over bits of airfield equipment and try and prevent a wingtip rocking over bumps and striking the ground. Failing that, they'd have a guy ride on the wing with his feet dangling over the leading edge and use hand signals to let the pilot know where to go. If no ground crew where available, they had to either S-turn all the way back to the hangar or they could pop the canopy, open the side door, loosen their harness and hang as far out of the left side as they could to see around the nose. So, yes, "practically had to get out onto the wing". But ripe for misunderstandings in translation.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Rudder control is especially important because the propeller on that massive engine likes to drag the plane in one direction. The P-51 needs 6 degrees of rudder trim on takeoff because otherwise it’ll veer to the side when you put the throttle up.

CannonFodder
Jan 26, 2001

Passion’s Wrench

DelphiAegis posted:

Gotcha. Fair point. And capitalism being what it is, the trucker's lobby to keep deisel prices down because otherwise doing so would cut into profits delivery of goods.

So normal poo poo hole American economics. Peachy.
All of the trucking lobbies want an increase in the deisel fuel tax. Teamsters Union, Owner Operators Independent Drivers Association, Truckload Carriers Association, American Trucking Association, and all of the large shipping companies want higher deisel taxes because they haven't changed since 1993.

Cartoon Man
Jan 31, 2004


Add this to the annual OSHA games.

https://i.imgur.com/B3qoy5X.mp4

i am harry
Oct 14, 2003


Somebody isn’t wearing their [Drive 500ft back - Not responsible for broken skulls and destroyed lives] tag...

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA

chitoryu12 posted:

Rudder control is especially important because the propeller on that massive engine likes to drag the plane in one direction. The P-51 needs 6 degrees of rudder trim on takeoff because otherwise it’ll veer to the side when you put the throttle up.

P-factor was a hell of a thing on a lot of those warbirds. They also had a tendency to roll when you had the throttle way up at low speeds.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

ima post this now before we get too deep into "let's talk about cool airplane factoids we overheard once with no understanding of the underlying reality," like standing on the seat to land a bf-109

context: someone said "I heard it's easier for the Mitsubishi Zero to turn left than right because the engine was so powerful, is that true?"

Sagebrush posted:

Also a great post about the Zero. :cheers:


:eng101: It has everything to do with engine rotation, for four different reasons. They are grouped together in (western) pilot training as "left-turning tendencies," because nearly all western single-engine aircraft have the engine turning clockwise from the pilot's perspective, and in that situation the forces cause the airplane to prefer a left turn. If the engine and propeller turn counterclockwise, as in most Russian aircraft for instance, everything is reversed. I am not sure why Americans standardized on clockwise engines and Russians on counterclockwise, but it's just how things are. Russians also teach power for airspeed and pitch for altitude when landing so they're just all nuts :jeb: :ussr:



The first left-turning-tendency effect is simply propeller torque by Newton's third law. If you try to spin the propeller to the right (as viewed from the pilot's seat), the plane will roll left as the equal and opposite reaction, and if not counteracted this left roll will become a left turn.

The second effect is caused by the propeller slipstream. The propeller spinning clockwise creates a clockwise slipstream of air rotating around the plane. This pushes on the left side of the vertical stabilizer (and generally on the left side of the fuselage), directly yawing the plane to the left. If the vertical stabilizer were mounted under the plane (and there's no reason it couldn't be, other than needing stilt-like landing gear) this would become a right-turning effect instead.

Both of these effects occur in all phases of flight, meaning that single-engine aircraft need to be trimmed to compensate for it so you don't have to perpetually fly with one rudder pedal pressed. In most light aircraft this is done with a simple metal tab on the bottom of the rudder that the maintenance personnel bend to the right angle for that specific plane. This only works at one particular speed (usually they adjust it for normal cruise) but that isn't much of a problem given the type of flying. Fancier planes have pilot-controlled rudder trim so they can be trimmed up correctly for whatever speed the pilot wants to fly.



The third effect is called P-factor and only occurs when the airplane is in a nose-high attitude -- during takeoff or in a climb. Essentially, with the nose high, the ascending propeller blade has a shallower angle of attack (it takes a smaller "bite" out of the air) and produces less thrust than the descending blade, which has a greater effective angle of attack. If the engine turns clockwise then the descending blade is on the right; more thrust on the right side of the plane tends to pull the nose to the left.

The last effect is gyroscopic precession. When you have a spinning mass and you try to reorient its axis of rotation, the mass responds by creating a counter-torque that is offset 90 degrees around the axis of rotation. In stable flight you don't have to deal with gyroscopic effects of the engine and propeller because the axis of rotation is pointing in a consistent direction. When you pitch the plane up or down, though, you will experience a gyroscopic torque that pushes the nose one way or the other. Pitching down in a plane with a clockwise engine creates a torque to the left; tailwheel aircraft need to pitch down on takeoff to raise the tail off the ground, so they have an extra left-turning tendency in that moment. Nosewheel aircraft just pitch up to climb, which creates a slight right-turning force, but the rotation is subtle and not enough to compensate for the other three factors. Note that gyroscopic effects only happen as the plane is actually rotating, so once you pitch to your climb angle and hold it, that effect goes away.

All of these effects are further exacerbated by the aircraft flying slowly (since the stabilizers are less effective) and having the engine at high power (more torque, more slipstream, faster rotating mass, etc). Combined, it means that the plane quite noticeably wants to swing to the left on takeoff and climb-out, and if the pilot doesn't compensate properly, bad things can happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eopl5QLQ5zs

As to the Zeros -- this effect is noticeable in any single-engine aircraft, but it isn't usually a big deal. A bit of right rudder at the correct time will handle it. In something like a Cessna 172 with 150hp and a 1600lb empty weight, you won't have any more trouble turning to the right than to the left. A Zero weighs twice as much as a 172 but has nine times the engine power, so in that circumstance yes you can have serious problems with aircraft control at certain times. Many WW2 fighters literally cannot use full power at the beginning of their takeoff roll, because without the airflow over the stabilizers the engine will flip the plane on its side.

LifeSunDeath
Jan 4, 2007

still gay rights and smoke weed every day
Get ready to slide down through a 2 foot high shute into an abandoned mine with super janky supports eveywhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xBv_mbbw64


Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013



NO

SeaborneClink
Aug 27, 2010

MAWP... MAWP!
This is the OSHA thread, not MSHA :colbert:

ReelBigLizard
Feb 27, 2003

Fallen Rib
I made my own PPE today. Trying to find solutions for second line medical staff and service workers locally. ER nearly ran out of face shields the other night.

https://twitter.com/boudloForge/status/1242981610913501185

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe

LifeSunDeath posted:

Get ready to slide down through a 2 foot high shute into an abandoned mine with super janky supports eveywhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xBv_mbbw64




loving hell this is bananas, why would anyone do this.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.



Bread Liar

ReelBigLizard posted:

I made my own PPE today. Trying to find solutions for second line medical staff and service workers locally. ER nearly ran out of face shields the other night.

https://twitter.com/boudloForge/status/1242981610913501185

I have some A4 laminating pouches, they'd probably work just as well.

HelloIAmYourHeart
Dec 29, 2008
Fallen Rib

ReelBigLizard posted:

I made my own PPE today. Trying to find solutions for second line medical staff and service workers locally. ER nearly ran out of face shields the other night.

https://twitter.com/boudloForge/status/1242981610913501185

The whole DIY PPE thing is terrifying, and it's only gonna get worse. I used to work at an eye clinic which is currently still seeing urgent and emergent patients, and they haven't been able to get masks. Solution? I've been making them fabric surgical masks (at their request) that they can sterilize and reuse, and the fabric I've been using was originally a sheet I got at the thrift store. I know fabric masks only protect at 50% or less but that's better than 0%. It's like those Arab Spring guys using cooking pots as helmets.

What a world.

C.M. Kruger
Oct 28, 2013
Xposting from the Aeronautical Insanity thread:

Spaced God posted:

NTSB report on Nine-O-Nine is out

Collings hosed up so bad that they no longer are allowed to carry pax. This is frustrating and infuriating

Sagebrush posted:

oooooof. ima just pull some key lines from the report here

quote:

the evidence indicates that Collings did not train the crew chief who was onboard the B-17G that was involved in the accident on October 2, 2019. ... In an interview with the FAA on March 2, 2020, the crew chief verified that he received no initial training and was unaware of basic information concerning operations under the exemption. Instead, he only received on-the-job training

notable maintenance discrepancies existed with the B-17G, yet the Collings Director of Maintenance signed inspection records—dated as recently as September 23, 2019—indicating no findings of discrepancies. No records or evidence of the completion of periodic audits exist with regard to this aircraft. In addition, the pilot in command of the B-17G was also the Director of Maintenance; as a result, Collings did not have a structure to ensure adequate oversight of his decisions to conduct passenger-carrying operations

Regarding engine 4, to prevent the magneto “P” leads from separating from the magnetos, someone had attempted to rig the magneto leads in place with safety wire. Inspection and testing of engine 4 left magneto revealed the movement of the safety-wired lead caused grounding to the case, which rendered the magneto lead inoperative.

In addition, the right magneto of engine 4 was found unserviceable. The cam follower was worn beyond limits and the point gap was less than half the measurement required by service documents. When tested, the magneto produced weak or no spark to four of the nine cylinders.

All spark plugs were inspected and required cleaning and all electrode gaps were out of tolerance; therefore, further engine inspection indicated signs of detonation and associated damage

An inspection of engine 3 showed all spark plugs electrode gaps were out of tolerance, fouled, and revealed various signs of detonation. Further inspection of this engine revealed problems with the cylinders.

maintenance records indicate the removal of wires and no further repairs or adjustments, even though a wire was burned and arcing. ... The same record, as well as a record from the following day, indicates flights with passengers occurred in the aircraft.

bunch of idiot cowboys
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=FAA-2001-11089-1673

RandomBlue
Dec 30, 2012

hay guys!


Biscuit Hider

withak posted:

loving hell this is bananas, why would anyone do this.

Because it's awesome as gently caress.

I'd prefer to go caving but that still looks like a ton of fun.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
Yeah I'm not going into a hole dug out hastily 115 years ago that is being supported by 115 year old timber where every other tunnel they find is a cave in.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply