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piratepilates posted:So overall how would you guys rate the season out of 10? How does it fit amongst the other shows? 3/10 below Enterprise IMO I'm prepared to be burned at the stake for thoughtcrimes.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:09
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piratepilates posted:So overall how would you guys rate the season out of 10? How does it fit amongst the other shows? 6.5/10. It wasn’t awful by any means but it could have been so much better with that cast and that pedigree. It’s tough to rank it exactly among other first seasons since a) it’s much shorter and b) it mostly involved a single plot instead of 26 different ones, but I think it’s probably somewhere in the middle. Better than TNG S1 or Disco S1, but not as good as TOS S1 or DS9 S1. The real highlight was the cast but the plot was bland, and parts of it felt like they’d been rewritten moments before shooting. It’s a mess just like Disco S1, but it at least felt more coherent.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:12
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I'd give it a 6. I'm glad I watched it, but it could have done so much better. It's hard to compare to the other shows, because it's so much different (I haven't watched Discovery). Like, outside of some ideas like synth rights, it doesn't even hit any of the same themes, and the format is so much different. It would be like, which is the better show, Cheers or Breaking Bad? Like, uh...that really depends on what you're looking for. (And yes, I know it's not that extreme, but you get what I'm saying.) Personally I'd put it ahead of Voyager and Enterprise, because I could just never get through those, and behind everything else (again, I haven't watched Discovery). edit: Big Mean Jerk posted:6.5/10. It wasn’t awful by any means but it could have been so much better with that cast and that pedigree. It’s tough to rank it exactly among other first seasons since a) it’s much shorter and b) it mostly involved a single plot instead of 26 different ones, but I think it’s probably somewhere in the middle. Better than TNG S1 or Disco S1, but not as good as TOS S1 or DS9 S1. The real highlight was the cast but the plot was bland, and parts of it felt like they’d been rewritten moments before shooting. It’s a mess just like Disco S1, but it at least felt more coherent. Oh, this is a good point. As far as Star Trek season ones, it's way better than TNG S1, I'll say that. I am shocked TNG survived it's first 2 seasons. I'm glad it did, don't get me wrong, but yikes.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:13
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I'm going to give it a good rating based on the next season, which I have no idea what it even is but I'm sure it will be good.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:17
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If I’m being completely honest, I do not care to have Seven return. With Hugh and the xB this should have been prime story potential to explore her trauma with the Borg and use it to relate with Picard and show how she’s grown since Voyager. Instead she just shows up twice to shoot some folks and say directly to the camera “I’m a hard drinkin’ badass outlaw ranger now”. Everything about her was awful this season. They botched Hugh’s arc overall but at least he still had that scene with Picard. Seven had nothing interesting going for her. I just can’t believe how badly they whiffed on all the Borg stuff. It never even amounted to anything important since it never really factored into the larger story! It was just a location to pickup and dropoff main characters. How do you do a finale about synths threatening to destroy organic life and not mention the race of cyborgs next door in some way? Big Mean Jerk fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 18:22
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:I'm going to give it a good rating based on the next season, which I have no idea what it even is but I'm sure it will be good.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:25
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Martytoof posted:3/10 below Enterprise Enterprise, while trapped in a stale plotting and production style from ~20 years of previous Trek, was far more inspired than this.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:27
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I'd give it a 6, it had its moments, and I felt the finale was good enough to bump the score up, but the whole bit about everyone having some crippling personal tragedy felt over the top to me. Some of the other subplots were not as good as they could have been, like Incest Sister, Hugh's Arc or Seven's backstory.Martytoof posted:Notable exceptions: His moments in this series makes me wish they had made a series around him instead.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:34
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Jimong5 posted:His moments in this series makes me wish they had made a series around him instead. Don't worry, it'd be just as tortured and ill-plotted if they did it about him.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:38
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I know Star Trek technology is already basically magic, but for some reason, that little handheld device that does literally whatever you can imagine just seems so egregious.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:39
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I know Pat Stew didn't want TNG part 2 but hear me out here, since the rest of the TNG cast seems game for it, how about they do a show where the rest of them bust out their old Starfleet uniforms and go do stuff? It can be like the future parts of All Good Things but think of all the money they will save by not having to use all that hokey old person makeup!
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Mar 26, 2020 18:44
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Fidel Cuckstro posted:I'm going to give it a good rating based on the next season, which I have no idea what it even is but I'm sure it will be good. Season 2 hasn't been greenlit yet, and is still in the air, isn't it? I had kind of assumed that the CBS free month push having a lot of advertising around Picard was an attempt to boost interest and try to secure a second season. Overall, I think I liked this season more than a lot of people. It had some slow parts and some stuff that was overly redundant and I felt like Elnor probably could have done more in general, but overall it wasn't bad. For some reason it feels "smaller" to me than the other Treks I've seen (I kind of stopped following the franchise around half way through Voyager), but I can't really explain what I mean by that. One issue I have with the resolution: Okay, so the point of the beacon was to call the super synths in to wipe out organic life and rescue the synths in the galaxy. It seems pretty explicit saying it's a beacon and not a portal generator. Why did the invasion stop after it got disabled? Even if it was intended to be a portal to provide entry into the galaxy, and the synths somehow didn't predict that it could possibly get destroyed shortly after being activated, they are are still aware that synthetic life advanced to the stage they're looking for and also felt threatened enough to activate the beacon. So the extra-galactic synths are now aware of the galaxy and the synths in it. Why would they not continue the invasion using that information and their technology that apparently lets them go any distance effectively instantly? I'm guessing things like that are what would end up coming in later seasons, because treating the beacon like a portal in and of itself goes against the way it was being described. It really doesn't feel like the dilemma is actually resolved though.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:46
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Mr.Unique-Name posted:One issue I have with the resolution: Okay, so the point of the beacon was to call the super synths in to wipe out organic life and rescue the synths in the galaxy. It seems pretty explicit saying it's a beacon and not a portal generator. Why did the invasion stop after it got disabled? Even if it was intended to be a portal to provide entry into the galaxy, and the synths somehow didn't predict that it could possibly get destroyed shortly after being activated, they are are still aware that synthetic life advanced to the stage they're looking for and also felt threatened enough to activate the beacon. So the extra-galactic synths are now aware of the galaxy and the synths in it. Why would they not continue the invasion using that information and their technology that apparently lets them go any distance effectively instantly? Sorry, I thought it was pretty clear: The show was written by people who don't give a poo poo
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Mar 26, 2020 18:49
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Mr.Unique-Name posted:Season 2 hasn't been greenlit yet, and is still in the air, isn't it? I had kind of assumed that the CBS free month push having a lot of advertising around Picard was an attempt to boost interest and try to secure a second season. It was renewed before the first episode even aired. e: piratepilates posted:So overall how would you guys rate the season out of 10? How does it fit amongst the other shows? 6/10 It gets most of the broad strokes right, but fails at some minor plot points with stupid things or inconsistencies. Also some characters like Elnore and Seven weren't utilized well at all. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 18:52
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:It was renewed before the first episode even aired. Oh, well poo poo. I somehow couldn't find that information.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:54
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I'd give it a 6/10 as well. 6/10 is pretty mediocre TV. And it only got up to a 6 because there were a few episodes in there that worked, which means that there's something there that can be mined out of it if they somehow got their act together - but I really can't see it ever reaching much higher than 7/10 on their best days, maybe 8/10 if they hit gold. At least with the current producing team. It's a disappointing mess, and a meager hill to build upon. But it's not a total disaster. I mean, I've seen worse. Part of the problem is that I don't think the show knows what it wants to be. I think it's aiming for 'profound and meaty' and is instead hitting notes of 'disposable adventure.' Which is Kurtzman's bread and butter. Chabon never ran a show before, and I think it's clear he leaned on Kurtzman et al too much and we got incest Romulan twins and blue beams in the sky opening a hole to robot hell. Chabon, it seemed, wanted to tell a story about myths and how they shape us - but none of that really resonated. Pretty much the only stuff that worked was the stuff leaning on characters or ideas produced from shows from the past. It may be time to let Star Trek die. And not put it in a robot body.
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Mar 26, 2020 18:58
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The next time Star Trek is interested in the future of mankind it will be good. Until then it will be bad.
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Mar 26, 2020 19:00
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:It was renewed before the first episode even aired. I said out of 10 man, what the gently caress 
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Mar 26, 2020 19:01
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lmao no Q. What a waste of everyone's time.
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Mar 26, 2020 19:05
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The season was... fine. Yeah, 6/10. Next season I'm going to wait for the season to finish and only sub for a month instead of watching it week to week.
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Mar 26, 2020 19:05
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piratepilates posted:I said out of 10 man, what the gently caress Its 3/5ths out of 10, less than a 1. Hell, I agree.
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Mar 26, 2020 19:05
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SyRauk posted:What a waste of everyone's time. I mean, to be fair, this is the right time for time-wasting. It's not like they knew that beforehand, though.
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Mar 26, 2020 19:06
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ashpanash posted:I mean, to be fair, this is the right time for time-wasting. Or did they? 
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Mar 26, 2020 19:15
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2/10. Boring, extremely derivative, self important but with nothing to say. The brightest points were the references to a show that started 30 years ago, and without that this series gave me little reason to care. I would be bummed out but honestly it's not like I was really expecting it to be good. Arglebargle III posted:The next time Star Trek is interested in the future of mankind it will be good. Until then it will be bad. Yeah, agreed wholeheartedly.
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Mar 26, 2020 19:26
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I mean, I watched the whole series, but yeah, it was Voyager level writing with modern prestige budgeting. I'm curious why the Romulans needed such a huge fleet when TOS established that a single Constitution class was more than capable of rendering planet utterly uninhabitable. Again, the modern idea of 'glassing' a planet, rather than the more accurate old idea that a few well-placed torpedoes on major fault lines will do the trick quite handily. I'm also embarrassed at how long it took me to realize that Rios was Aramis from the BBC Three Musketeers show a few years back.
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Mar 26, 2020 19:33
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I’d be interested to know how many of you think you’ll go back and rewatch this season. I felt like it was an okay setup, with a few well done moments sprinkled throughout, but nothing compelling enough for a rewatch. And since it’s serialized, there’s even less of a reason to pop on a random episode. Whatever poster said it could’ve been a better two-hour movie was spot on.
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Mar 26, 2020 19:34
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Retrowave Joe posted:I’d be interested to know how many of you think you’ll go back and rewatch this season. I felt like it was an okay setup, with a few well done moments sprinkled throughout, but nothing compelling enough for a rewatch. And since it’s serialized, there’s even less of a reason to pop on a random episode. Whatever poster said it could’ve been a better two-hour movie was spot on. Probably never. I haven't finished the show, and I don't have much interest in watching the four episodes I missed after reading about them. I enjoyed the first six an OK amount but looking back there's nothing about them I would want to see again. Maybe in a few years I'll watch clips on YouTube to remember what happened, but probably nothing more than that.
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Mar 26, 2020 19:47
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SyRauk posted:lmao no Q. What a waste of everyone's time. I was really really really hoping that when Picard woke up after he died he would be sitting across from Q. Not that the Data thing hadn’t worked well or anything, but Q out of nowhere would have given me some hope. Right now I’m not sure I have even the slighted anticipation of season two. I mean, I’ll tune in like an obedient schmuck just to hatewatch I guess, but ehh.
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Mar 26, 2020 20:01
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Big Mean Jerk posted:If I’m being completely honest, I do not care to have Seven return. With Hugh and the xB this should have been prime story potential to explore her trauma with the Borg and use it to relate with Picard and show how she’s grown since Voyager. Instead she just shows up twice to shoot some folks and say directly to the camera “I’m a hard drinkin’ badass outlaw ranger now”. Everything about her was awful this season. They botched Hugh’s arc overall but at least he still had that scene with Picard. Seven had nothing interesting going for her. Imagine if the moment where she takes control of the cube was in episode 4 or 5, and they do pay off the idea that she's afraid of going on a power trip being in control of so many drones, rather than flushing them out the airlock and immediately throwing it all away. Have one of the important plot arcs for the rest of the season be her struggling to relinquish that control and come back to her humanity, with Picard and Hugh's help. Plenty of meat there, and Seven commanding a cube would perhaps serve to give us an even wider window into what Picard experienced as Locutus, and the process he needed to go through to heal from that. I did enjoy Jeri Ryan's acting in this show, she really elevated the relatively poor-quality material that they gave her. I'm still rather miffed that her whole backstory with Bjazel the crime lord was mostly told and not shown... isn't that violating the first rule of screenwriting? That alone makes me question Chabon. However, Ryan sold it all admirably. If she is a main cast member next season, I have no doubt she will be one of the highlights. This episode felt the most coherent out of all of them, probably because they knew they had to maintain momentum to wrap up the story. My biggest beef with this show is that so many episodes feel exactly the opposite, like there were 4 or 5 writers handling 1 or 2 scenes each and then cobbling them together real fast at the end of the week. Once again, I'm thinking especially of the Freecloud episode, which was really a big mess. There are plenty of touching individual character moments here and there that were worthwhile, such as everything with Troi and Riker, Hugh guiding Picard through the cube, and even Picard and Data in this episode, which really made me tear up as well. But they do not assemble into a coherent whole. I suppose if Abrams and Kurtzman's style can be said to have any strength, it is getting the audience to experience emotions in the moment as they happen, even if the greater structure of the story being told is very weak. On top of that, so many plot elements are introduced simply to force the story forward. Saga's magical synth tool, which I guess is a sonic screwdriver or a loving Green Lantern ring, that oh-so-convenient synth body, Picard's brain abnormality being established early on and then completely forgotten about until it's needed to inject tension into the finale... It just doesn't feel like an organically developing series of events. I was thinking of a 2/5 rating after reflecting on the first 9 episodes, so 4/10 on that scale, and episode 10 did nothing to change my mind. I seriously doubt I will rewatch any of it anytime soon, and I will likely be holding off on subscribing for season 2 at least until I see reviews of its premiere. Most likely I will binge it in a week, if I watch it at all.
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Mar 26, 2020 20:03
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TheCenturion posted:I mean, I watched the whole series, but yeah, it was Voyager level writing with modern prestige budgeting. According to the old standby Sternbach & Okuda TNG tech manual, the energy output of a single photon warhead from the Big D was about 950 gigatons or ~1/500th the energy of the Chicxulub impact. The Enterprise couldn't have literally vitrified a planet's entire surface but it could have terror bombed a planet into submission with a fraction of its arsenal or firebombed the surface clean of complex life using its entire complement of weapons.
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Mar 26, 2020 20:07
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piratepilates posted:So overall how would you guys rate the season out of 10? How does it fit amongst the other shows? 2 or 3 / 10, it's a pretty terrible show and i'm surprised season 2 hasn't been canceled. Tighclops posted:2/10. Boring, extremely derivative, self important but with nothing to say. The brightest points were the references to a show that started 30 years ago, and without that this series gave me little reason to care. I would be bummed out but honestly it's not like I was really expecting it to be good. Because Patrick Stewart was so heavily involved with this, I was hopeful it would at least be decent, but it couldn't even do that. It's trash for all of the reasons you mentioned. I said come in! fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 20:10
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I'm giving the season 2/10, I enjoyed parts of it but it's not star trek at all. They took a sci-fi premise and just named some characters after trek characters. Their personalities aren't even the same. It completely missed the point of trek. They need to quit trying to serialize it with overly dramatic storylines that shovel in references to whatever characters for nostalgia reasons. If we're still making trek in 2020 it really ought to carry on the style of tos, tng, ds9 etc. Individual character-focused tv set in space. Give it all new characters and advance the timeline another generation. Make it so that ten years from now we can happily watch it in the background while cleaning the house on a lazy sunday afternoon and make up lists of hilariously hammy episodes on GBS. Picard sucks precisely because there's no threshold or profit and lace against killer episodes like inner light and chain of command. All of it is all brain-numbing by-the-numbers zzz flix. Not this bullshit save-the-galaxy prestige wankfest. Boooooo
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Mar 26, 2020 20:20
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PostNouveau posted:I know Star Trek technology is already basically magic, but for some reason, that little handheld device that does literally whatever you can imagine just seems so egregious. Calling it now that it will tie into season 2 somehow.
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Mar 26, 2020 20:22
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So - not to get into any huge arguments with anyone - but personally, I think 2 or 3 out of 10 is reaching into hyperbole. It was well-produced technically, and the acting in it was solid. The camerawork and cinematography were in general pretty good. The actors did what they could with what they were given. This was a writing failure, and an execution failure. But I've seen way worse - poo poo, I remember tuning into some CBS or FOX drama that was loving unwatchable. I don't know what it was, but it was two pretty people who were completely wooden talking in dead dialog about the stupidest poo poo. I mean, I loving hated Westworld Season 2 and even I would give that a 5/10. There's failing and then there's "no effort was put into this at all, from any angle." But then again, I guess we all grade on our own curves. But that's why I'm giving the show a 6/10 and not a 2/10, even though I think a lot of us are on the same page.
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Mar 26, 2020 20:25
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SyRauk posted:lmao no Q. What a waste of everyone's time. Speaking of, where were the Q during the last time the "advanced synths" attacked? You'd think that'd be one of the few things they'd interfere for.
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Mar 26, 2020 20:29
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Yeah, it comes down to how much weight you want to put on technical aspects. If you see it as "storytelling" then maybe everything else is in service to the story, but if the story is weak, then just how much does it elevate that weak story? Do all the extra bells and whistles even matter? To me, the bottom line is that all of those things age with time. What makes media classic is the story itself. STP did not deliver a story - from start to finish - that will be as appreciated or remembered as well as the best trek episodes. It was made to be binge watched and its flaws stick out even worse if you sit down and see it all at once.
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Mar 26, 2020 20:31
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ashpanash posted:So - not to get into any huge arguments with anyone - but personally, I think 2 or 3 out of 10 is reaching into hyperbole. It was well-produced technically, and the acting in it was solid. The camerawork and cinematography were in general pretty good. The actors did what they could with what they were given. This was a writing failure, and an execution failure. But I've seen way worse - poo poo, I remember tuning into some CBS or FOX drama that was loving unwatchable. I don't know what it was, but it was two pretty people who were completely wooden talking in dead dialog about the stupidest poo poo. It fits this weird gray area where it's not terrible terrible, but it's got enough problems that I can see the rating sink further due to blandness. Like there's no boom mics in shots, and there's competent VFX, and passable performances -- but that makes it fit the same mental space for mediocre movies I've seen and forgotten having ever watched. It's not quite terrible enough to stand out in some way. If this didn't have the Star Trek name I probably would legitimately forget it exists in a few years time. By that merit I think the rating could be knocked down from a 4 or 5 to even lower. It's similar to that skywalker movie where you see it, it's got scenes, it's not terribly made, but the whole thing feels clumsy and hollow to the point where you feel like it deserves worse.
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Mar 26, 2020 20:39
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ashpanash posted:So - not to get into any huge arguments with anyone - but personally, I think 2 or 3 out of 10 is reaching into hyperbole. It was well-produced technically, and the acting in it was solid. The camerawork and cinematography were in general pretty good. The actors did what they could with what they were given. This was a writing failure, and an execution failure. But I've seen way worse - poo poo, I remember tuning into some CBS or FOX drama that was loving unwatchable. I don't know what it was, but it was two pretty people who were completely wooden talking in dead dialog about the stupidest poo poo. Right, but I'm trying not to compare cross genre. Out of "general TV" I guess this is like a 5 or 6/10. On a scale of "how do I compare this to other Star Trek" I honestly do give this a 2/10 without trying to be snarky about it. It felt like a letdown in almost every aspect. Compare it to a season twenty-something of The Simpsons and I'd tell you Picard was infinitely more watchable and enjoyable than that. It started off really strong for an episode but never maintained that high, is probably the best praise I can give it. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 20:43
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All fair points. What I really want to see is a Star Trek: Paradigms TV show. Bring on Dark Admiral Hyperriker! 
ashpanash fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 20:48
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ashpanash posted:So - not to get into any huge arguments with anyone - but personally, I think 2 or 3 out of 10 is reaching into hyperbole. It was well-produced technically, and the acting in it was solid. The camerawork and cinematography were in general pretty good. The actors did what they could with what they were given. This was a writing failure, and an execution failure. But I've seen way worse - poo poo, I remember tuning into some CBS or FOX drama that was loving unwatchable. I don't know what it was, but it was two pretty people who were completely wooden talking in dead dialog about the stupidest poo poo. Of course I think you make some great points, I mean if I were to score it as it is, it's obviously an extremely well produced and well acted season but as a trek nerd it's very disappointing and wasn't what I was expecting or looking for.
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Mar 26, 2020 21:23
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