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Who is your first pick in the deputy leadership race? This poll is closed. |
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| R. Allin-Khan |
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6 | 1.60% |
| R. Burgon |
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80 | 21.33% |
| D. Butler |
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72 | 19.20% |
| A. Rayner |
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35 | 9.33% |
| I. Murray |
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5 | 1.33% |
| P. Flaps |
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177 | 47.20% |
| Total: | 375 votes | ||
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RockyB posted:Comment or commetaritwat lol thats not even both sides thats just the telegraph
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Mar 27, 2020 01:03
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Azza Bamboo posted:It might not be hard to convince people that the belt needs to be tightened after this event, given how many people need to make cuts in their own lives for their own survival. There's every risk of strengthening the credit card narrative. yeah tbh knowing the brits us all eating shoes and dying needlessly in hospital corridors for 12 months will make us like bojo more, not less we're pain piggies
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Mar 27, 2020 01:04
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Clap for our NHS
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Mar 27, 2020 01:05
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That lovely, racist eugenicist that got fired a while back seems to think the reason everyone is so confident NHS capacity won't be overrun all of a sudden, is because they aren't treating anyone over 65. https://twitter.com/peterjukes/status/1243324691395366915?s=19
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Mar 27, 2020 01:11
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bump_fn posted:did anyone post a jeb pleas clap meme 
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Mar 27, 2020 01:19
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blunt posted:I believe both of you and understand why self employed people are relying on the same government support that everybody else is at the moment. But are they paying a lower effective tax rate? OK I don't really understand about dividends, not anything myself or anyone I know has got involved with. But here is the case for me and most of the friends/family I know who are self-employed (and most round here are self-employed because there are f*k all other jobs). I do a small amount of self-employed work. I declare my income every year and pay what the same amount of income tax as anyone earning the same as me on a PAYE job does (ie nothing because I don't even eaern enough to have to pay Class 2). But if I did earn over the personal tax allowance, I would have to pay identically the same as anyone on PAYE. Re National Insurance: I pay Class 2 NI - even though I don't have to - to get state pension (and my total pension income - due in about 6.5 years - including state and from work at todays rates and if I pay in 37 years - I am up to 35 years now so why they tell me now I have to pay 37 years I do not know but I digress will be £760 per month so I am going to have to keep doing self-employed work until I am physically or mentally incapable of doing so. If I earned a certain amount which I think is about £9k from April, I would have to pay the Class 2. Then there is another limit above which I would have to pay Class 4 which depend on how much else you've earned on top. Not exactly sure how these match up with PAYE Class 1 rates but they may amount to the same or more. iI you are on PAYE, class 1 kick in at a lower limit (below which - approx £120 per week from one employer - not only do you not pay NI, but you don't get an NI 'contribution' mark either), then there is another tier between which you don't pay but your employer does, then above that (approx £160pw) you both pay depending on your salary until you hit something around £42k when you don't pay anymore. (Limit figs are approx because I can't be assed to google) Given that the median income of self-employed is around £10k-£15k PER ANNUM, you're probably paying much the same. If you are self-employed you are allowed to make deductions eg website hosting, certain credentials, overheads such as advertising, marketing, facilities, which in a PAYE job your company is paying not you. So as a self- employed person you have some 'company' type expenses (whether you are registered as a company or not) which a PAYE person either doesn't pay or claims on expenses. (There are different ways of doing this you can either choose a fixed amount deduction or a actual costs deduction). Also you have to make provision for sick pay, holiday pay, maternity pay all that sort of stuff that a PAYE employee normally gets in some form or another. (You also get the intense joy of sitting there with piles of invoices and receipts and filling in a self-assessment form every year - though some of these softwares do that stuff for you now. I do such a small amount that software would be top heavy for me. I just keep a spreadsheet). Ed2: Also there is a difference between being 'self-employed' and not a limited company and being a limited company (though self-employed in practice). I do have a limited company but it is what is technically termed 'dormant'. It is there to preserve name and also if I was to ever get a contract with a local authority or school or something, they prefer to deal with limited companies so it gives me a long standing Ltd co name to use if it ever happens and probably never will. A lot of people were forced into ltd companies. Not necessarily a choice people made willingly. Ed 3: (Sorry I keep thinking of things). If you are self-employed and need to claim Universal Credit, then they will ASSUME you are earning at least the 'minimum income limit' per week even if you are not and only calculate entitlements based on that assumption. One of the things that will be done starting I think April 6th through this crisis is to remove that minimum income limit assumption. But normally if you claim to be self-employed, you get exemption for minimum income limit for one year but then it is assumed. If you don't meet it, you are then required to look for another job (even if there aren't any). Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 27, 2020 |
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Mar 27, 2020 01:23
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big scary monsters posted:Yeah I can't give a gently caress about someone who probably isn't buying a private dinghy let alone a yacht skirting the edges of the tax code. Let's You have my sympathy, Goldskull. Hope you come through this alright.
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Mar 27, 2020 01:38
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Thanks for this. That makes sense and does sound very similar yeah. My assumption was based on this breakdown posted earlier in the thread: RockyB posted:Alright, half arsed recap because I've done this is far too much detail in this thread before. Best I can tell it just comes down to pensions I guess. blunt fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Mar 27, 2020 |
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Mar 27, 2020 01:38
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Julio Cruz posted:turns out that a whole load of people are getting hosed by the Tories and most of them haven't spent the preceding half-decade engaged in a scheme designed to prevent them paying their fair share of tax  Stop arguing about who is or is not getting hosed by the Man. You're all getting hosed by the Man, and you're arguing about who got to spit on his dick first.
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Mar 27, 2020 02:11
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Communist Thoughts posted:i was agreeing with you lol Yeah I know it's Julio Cruz who seems to think I'm Richard Branson taking all that tax money off the NHS. I been drinking, I'm loving annoyed at this bullshit.
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Mar 27, 2020 02:36
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Goldskull posted:Yeah I know it's Julio Cruz who seems to think I'm Richard Branson taking all that tax money off the NHS. I been drinking, I'm loving annoyed at this bullshit. what has become abundantly clear is the money wasn't going anywhere anyway
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Mar 27, 2020 02:38
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Fairly getting shirty in here 
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Mar 27, 2020 02:40
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Everybody shirts
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Mar 27, 2020 03:08
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Loonytoad Quack posted:That lovely, racist eugenicist that got fired a while back seems to think the reason everyone is so confident NHS capacity won't be overrun all of a sudden, is because they aren't treating anyone over 65. Even if you made a blanket no-one over the age of 65 is getting into ICU, the NHS is still going to be overrun. You can read the Italian stories where the cutoff age just gets lower and lower as the situation deteriorates. Having said that, COVID-19 mortality is most strongly correlated with age so it makes sense to select for the younger patients if you don't have the resources to ventilate everyone. IANAIP though so take this with a swig of corona.
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Mar 27, 2020 03:28
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I'm not actually sure how these decisions work in practice, but the experience of COVID is making me seriously wonder whether we shouldn't have an entire specialised class of ethicists working for the NHS to make these judgement calls on who gets ICU treatment where there's limited capacity. Of course we already have ethical committees, but they're going to have very little influence at the ground level of a pandemic (or any other situation involving mass admissions). I'm talking professionals whose entire job is to decide who lives and who dies. It's just too much pressure to put on clinicians to have to live with those decisions while also putting themselves at risk and having to do the practical business of medicine. No one wants to condemn someone who doesn't deserve it, but I'd much rather that function was performed by a group of people there to do that and that alone, and well enough versed in ethical theory to do so.
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Mar 27, 2020 04:03
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An organisation will likely determine how it responds to an emergency, organisation being your individual NHS trusts, councils, police forces and emergency service providers. Each of these have their own guidance from their own national bodies and ministries about how to deal with emergencies. If it sounds like a clusterfuck doomed to cause inter agency issues, that's because it is. But returning to the issue of who decides how resources are allocated in a life/death emergency: most organisations assemble their gold, silver and bronze commands to make some of the difficult decisions. In my area, the councils and the NHS trusts are doing their command bit. Obviously us civilians don't get to hear the discussions they have, but I am aware that one of the things they have done here is take the nurses who have previous experience in respiratory care and intensive care, but who have since moved on to other specialisms, and drag them back into the hospital. Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 27, 2020 |
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Mar 27, 2020 06:27
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ThomasPaine posted:I'm not actually sure how these decisions work in practice, but the experience of COVID is making me seriously wonder whether we shouldn't have an entire specialised class of ethicists working for the NHS to make these judgement calls on who gets ICU treatment where there's limited capacity. Of course we already have ethical committees, but they're going to have very little influence at the ground level of a pandemic (or any other situation involving mass admissions). I'm talking professionals whose entire job is to decide who lives and who dies. It's just too much pressure to put on clinicians to have to live with those decisions while also putting themselves at risk and having to do the practical business of medicine. No one wants to condemn someone who doesn't deserve it, but I'd much rather that function was performed by a group of people there to do that and that alone, and well enough versed in ethical theory to do so. You're asking for people with no medical experience to be put in charge of making medical decisions about futility of treatment. If they're not doing this all year round and just coming in for pandemics then they would have even less experience with healthcare. Doctors are already well trained in ethics and decisions regarding suitability for more aggressive resuscitation and intensive care are already a core part of day to day working. The ethical principles in times where availability of a therapy is vastly outstripped by demand are well established already, the treatment goes to the person with the most chance of benefiting the most. This is a clinical judgement and even when you are approaching a point where an arbitrary cut-off is neccessary, the people best placed to know when it is needed and what threshold to set it at are the clinicians. Such a decision would be made collectively. We do also have ethical and legal specialists available for discussion in cases where there is no clear precedent.
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Mar 27, 2020 07:15
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Big jump in the corona figures in Scotland... I wonder how many of us will survive this intact
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Mar 27, 2020 07:56
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I think I find out today whether I'll be working from home, the building closed or lol gently caress you
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Mar 27, 2020 08:17
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:If you are self-employed and need to claim Universal Credit, then they will ASSUME you are earning at least the 'minimum income limit' per week even if you are not and only calculate entitlements based on that assumption. At least in some areas council tax rebate makes the same assumption, so that being self employed in a modest house can easily cost you £1000 pa. On a low income it's crippling.
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Mar 27, 2020 08:25
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My place has gone to team working, thank god. I'm in every other weekday. What's the best way of volunteering locally that isn't the suspect government sponsored app?
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Mar 27, 2020 08:28
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ThomasPaine posted:I'm not actually sure how these decisions work in practice, but the experience of COVID is making me seriously wonder whether we shouldn't have an entire specialised class of ethicists working for the NHS to make these judgement calls on who gets ICU treatment where there's limited capacity. Of course we already have ethical committees, but they're going to have very little influence at the ground level of a pandemic (or any other situation involving mass admissions). I'm talking professionals whose entire job is to decide who lives and who dies. It's just too much pressure to put on clinicians to have to live with those decisions while also putting themselves at risk and having to do the practical business of medicine. No one wants to condemn someone who doesn't deserve it, but I'd much rather that function was performed by a group of people there to do that and that alone, and well enough versed in ethical theory to do so. That sounds like a good way to invite weirdo eugenicists into the NHS. If you set up a job titled "death decider" you're going to attract people who want to decide who lives and who dies and that sort of person is probably the opposite of who should actually be doing it. Speaking of deciding who lives and who dies a bloody bumblebee managed to find its way into my room while I was asleep, great fat fucker it was. Put it outside but I have no idea how I didn't hear it given how noisy it was.
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Mar 27, 2020 08:33
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ThomasPaine posted:I'm not actually sure how these decisions work in practice, but the experience of COVID is making me seriously wonder whether we shouldn't have an entire specialised class of ethicists working for the NHS to make these judgement calls on who gets ICU treatment where there's limited capacity. Of course we already have ethical committees, but they're going to have very little influence at the ground level of a pandemic (or any other situation involving mass admissions). I'm talking professionals whose entire job is to decide who lives and who dies. It's just too much pressure to put on clinicians to have to live with those decisions while also putting themselves at risk and having to do the practical business of medicine. No one wants to condemn someone who doesn't deserve it, but I'd much rather that function was performed by a group of people there to do that and that alone, and well enough versed in ethical theory to do so. Even in the very best case you'll have people that will have to be paid quite a large salary to periodically undergo severe psychological trauma and not much else. That doesn't sound ideal.
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Mar 27, 2020 08:39
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It’s upsetting that the great strives the nhs made in recent years, enough that people in their late 70s were considered “young”, is going to be completely wiped out in months
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Mar 27, 2020 08:50
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mrpwase posted:My place has gone to team working, thank god. I'm in every other weekday. What's the best way of volunteering locally that isn't the suspect government sponsored app? My area has a number of mutual aid groups on the various social media channels, mostly people putting out calls for themselves or relatives who need to stay in but need medicine/groceries/etc picked up. One thing I would like to do is talk on the phone with people who are alone, but that doesn't seem to be coordinated through these groups so if anyone has any leads on that please let me know. I guess the issue for that is references and DBS checks etc, to make sure I'm not going to scam people out of money or radicalise them into eating their landlord. Or trapping the landlord in their home to actually do some labour as a caregiver. Cough on them so they can't leave.
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Mar 27, 2020 09:05
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ThomasPaine posted:I'm not actually sure how these decisions work in practice Doctors and in some cases patient advocates. Though at the hospital I worked at there was like 1 patient advocate. Article on this in the NEJM the other day: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsb2005114?query=featured_coronavirus Also apparently the pandemic is the fault of China, environmentalists and gays https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/trump-cabinet-bible-studies-coronavirus/ knox_harrington fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Mar 27, 2020 |
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Mar 27, 2020 09:08
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jacksbrat posted:My area has a number of mutual aid groups on the various social media channels, mostly people putting out calls for themselves or relatives who need to stay in but need medicine/groceries/etc picked up. My girlfriend is doing the phone thing - I think this is the link. https://www.goodsamapp.org/NHS It’s legit, linked from here: https://www.england.nhs.uk/2020/03/your-nhs-needs-you-nhs-call-for-volunteer-army/
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Mar 27, 2020 09:09
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Seconding Algol here, we make these decisions about ceilings of care and palliation daily. With regards to how things work in practice, the team makes a clinical judgement about whether resuscitation, or ventilation, or NIV, or even antibiotics and fluids are likely to improve or cure someone. You also make a judgement about what level of disability someone will be left with after our intervention. Then, ideally, you can sensitively discuss with people what their prognosis is, what their wishes are, what level of disability they would accept. If they are unable to, you speak to their LPA, or their next of kin - but the next of kin only helps inform you to make a decision in the patient’s best interests, their opinion has little to no legal weight. In the majority of cases you come to an agreement with the patient about how aggressive intervention should be, with a ceiling of care set at what we medically deem futile. If there are disagreements then the medical team is not obliged to provide treatment they deem futile, though patients are entitled to a second opinion. In practice normally a compromise is reached before anything gets too fraught.
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Mar 27, 2020 09:14
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Please do not rely on income protection insurance, holy gently caress.
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Mar 27, 2020 09:15
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Loonytoad Quack posted:That lovely, racist eugenicist that got fired a while back seems to think the reason everyone is so confident NHS capacity won't be overrun all of a sudden, is because they aren't treating anyone over 65. quote:If you palliate literally everyone over 60...[that] doesn't mean loads of people won't die. "Today community support officers have been door-to-door palliating in Glasgow, working with the community to help prevent the spread of the virus". It's a completely naive position too. Doctors involved in the outbreak have repeatedly pointed out that survivability isn't just down to age. Unfortunately, it's the easiest relevant characteristic to judge by eye and develop a prejudice about.
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Mar 27, 2020 09:16
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Today's breakfast birds are the bullfinch couple. They're messy eaters: 
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Mar 27, 2020 09:34
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brits abroad keeping up the hard work of being the worst tourists always https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3904965
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Mar 27, 2020 09:35
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Aye metabolic age and actual age can be very different, mostly depending on lifestyle factors. Got very fit 80 year olds being ventilated, and 60 year olds dying on the wards. Premorbid exercise tolerance is very important, and diabetes, obesity and particularly hypertension appear to lead to poor outcomes.
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Mar 27, 2020 09:37
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Trades posted:If they are unable to, you speak to their LPA, or their next of kin - but the next of kin only helps inform you to make a decision in the patient’s best interests, their opinion has little to no legal weight.. Interestingly we recently had a patient at a US hospital who deteriorated after treatment with what was initially thought to be treatment related toxicity, but ultimately it became clear it was (s aureus) sepsis. Patient's family decided on palliative care only and somehow the treating physician was not allowed to reinstitute aggressive therapy. I wasn't there so of course don't know the exact story but it seemed like an odd situation, as well as difficult and grim. Also hard to say what the likelihood of controlling the sepsis was. (not in any way disagreeing with you, just an interesting story. Maybe.)
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Mar 27, 2020 09:45
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Trades posted:particularly hypertension Is anyone sure why this is the case yet? My mum mentioned it to me a while back, but I've not seen any explanation.
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Mar 27, 2020 09:58
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Cerv posted:brits abroad keeping up the hard work of being the worst tourists always Ahahahahahaha if you read carefully the women told them they didn’t have the money for the hotel so got moved to the quarantine centre, but their *husbands remained at the hotel*. So presumably someone pulled a Karen and immediately got shoved in the back of a van.
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Mar 27, 2020 10:09
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Prince John posted:That is amazing! Are the buses stagecoach and does she have anyone who could buy and top up a bus card online on her behalf? If so it can be organised online: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/national/stagecoachsmart
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Mar 27, 2020 10:13
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knox_harrington posted:Patient's family decided on palliative care only and somehow the treating physician was not allowed to reinstitute aggressive therapy. My one hope for the aftermath of this absolute and deliberate fuckery is that we move our euthanasia and abortion laws out of the 60s (and 1860s) and a bunch of people start taking advance care directives seriously rather than as something that happens to other people. *monkey paw finger curls and we become a neocatholic pro-suffering hellstate*
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Mar 27, 2020 10:14
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/26/nobody-will-starve-says-ocado-chair-urging-britons-to-stop-stockpiling he urged people to plan their meals and show some frugality. “If you buy a chicken, roast the chicken, have the roast chicken dinner, the following day turn it into a stir fry, the following day make it into soup,” he said. “We live in a very profligate society: we buy too much, we eat too much, we consume too much, and we have to learn new ways.” Always astonishing but now surprising how he, and the government, maybe don't grasp that some people don't have that chicken or any way to get it, or a larder stocked with food.... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/millions-to-need-food-aid-in-days-as-virus-exposes-uk-supply
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Mar 27, 2020 10:21
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I enjoy the tender thighs with garlic and mushroom sauce and throw the rest of the chicken from my 8th story window each day.
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Mar 27, 2020 10:25
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