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Jake's entire thing is making cruel choices.
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# ? Mar 22, 2020 05:58 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 07:54 |
CidGregor posted:The 90s were a different time, man. Stuff that was ostensibly 'for kids' had some legit terrifying/disturbing parts. Even Disney poo poo. Hell, especially Disney poo poo. Looking at The Lion King through a modern lens, that kind of nazi-ish imagery and elaborate major character death scene would never fly with a G rating these days. Or the hot spicy racism of Pocahontas. Or the old man sexual predator vibes of Hunchback. I was a kid in the early 90s. I remember major moral panics over far less than we've alrready seen here.
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# ? Mar 22, 2020 06:50 |
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Gnoman posted:Scholastic published this? I figure most of the "how did they get away with this" moments were down to a punishing release schedule made possible by a lack of editorial oversight. Also why the most of the books never rise above rough draft quality, which the series compensates for with wild rough draft ambition
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# ? Mar 22, 2020 22:40 |
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High Warlord Zog posted:I figure most of the "how did they get away with this" moments were down to a punishing release schedule made possible by a lack of editorial oversight. Also why the most of the books never rise above rough draft quality, which the series compensates for with wild rough draft ambition Yeah, their turnaround time was straight up like probably 3 weeks because they had to get them out on a monthly basis. It was the primary reason Applegate and Grant hired all those ghostwriters, aside from them starting a family. Even with the two of them working their asses off, they were just barely keeping ahead of the train laying the tracks. Also I think the base premise played a huge role in the deflection of suspicion. “90s Kids turn into animals and fight aliens” is all that most parents heard and they didn’t read the books themselves so they never got to all the physical brutality and psychological horror. It was the ultimate literary Trojan horse. Though as Applegate and Grant diverged and began their own separate careers the twin strands of Animorphs’ DNA pulled apart from each other. Applegate wrote emotionally gripping stories about animals, and Grant wrote wrenching books about teenagers being horribly violent and the mental scars that violence leaves.
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# ? Mar 22, 2020 23:58 |
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, their turnaround time was straight up like probably 3 weeks because they had to get them out on a monthly basis. It was the primary reason Applegate and Grant hired all those ghostwriters, aside from them starting a family. Even with the two of them working their asses off, they were just barely keeping ahead of the train laying the tracks. To be fair, Applegate herself straight up told people after the series ended that the Animorphs were terrorists. Terrorists the reader probably agrees with, but that's what they became by the end.
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# ? Mar 23, 2020 01:01 |
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, their turnaround time was straight up like probably 3 weeks because they had to get them out on a monthly basis. It was the primary reason Applegate and Grant hired all those ghostwriters, aside from them starting a family. Even with the two of them working their asses off, they were just barely keeping ahead of the train laying the tracks. I haven't really gotten into it so far, but I think that the trigger for the ghost writers was that, in 1999, Applegate and Grant, entered into another contract with Scholastic for another book series called "Everworld", about these teenagers are sucked into an alternate world and forced to fight the gods, especially the god Loki, who's trying to take over our world. That series started in 1999, which is when Animorphs started being ghostwritten. But you're right that the publication schedule for Animorphs was crazy, when you consider they published 64 books over the course of five years, or an average of about one a month.
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# ? Mar 23, 2020 01:16 |
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Epicurius posted:I haven't really gotten into it so far, but I think that the trigger for the ghost writers was that, in 1999, Applegate and Grant, entered into another contract with Scholastic for another book series called "Everworld", about these teenagers are sucked into an alternate world and forced to fight the gods, especially the god Loki, who's trying to take over our world. That series started in 1999, which is when Animorphs started being ghostwritten. But you're right that the publication schedule for Animorphs was crazy, when you consider they published 64 books over the course of five years, or an average of about one a month. Having read the first Everworld, you can tell right off the bat how much more their hearts were in that universe than they ever were in Animorphs and you can easily see the DNA of what would become Gone all over it. I might be wrong but I think to this day they’re both still pretty burned that Everworld (and Remnants for that matter) never become anything more than an also-ran to Animorphs.
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# ? Mar 23, 2020 01:22 |
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nine-gear crow posted:Having read the first Everworld, you can tell right off the bat how much more their hearts were in that universe than they ever were in Animorphs and you can easily see the DNA of what would become Gone all over it. I might be wrong but I think to this day they’re both still pretty burned that Everworld (and Remnants for that matter) never become anything more than an also-ran to Animorphs. How was Everworld, or at least what you read?
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# ? Mar 23, 2020 01:28 |
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The Invasion-Chapter 7quote:Somehow I made it home. I don't know how. I have no memories of anything after that last sight of the Hork-Bajir. Putting aside the fact that the kid named his cat Dude, this is, with the exception of Visser-3, the first actual morphing in the book (albeit one not actually seen by us) quote:I just stared. Tobias's family situation is, as we'll see, probably the least stable of all of them. quote:"So there I was, just sitting on my bed, thinking about it. Concentrating. Thinking about becoming Dude. I looked down at my hand." He grinned at me. "What do you think I saw, Jake?" it's kind of interesting that, for the short time he interacted with Jake, Prince Elfangor is the one part of the memory of last night that sort of anchors Jake to what happened. He's the one good experience of that night. quote:Tobias put his hand on my arm. "Stand right there." And there's the first actual morph. Also, here's a picture of an Andalite. How much does it look like the description? Epicurius fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Mar 25, 2020 |
# ? Mar 23, 2020 01:30 |
Epicurius posted:
It makes sense to me. Everything else is horrifying, or just so out there that it is simply hard to wrap your head around. Elfangor's death, on the other hand, is tragic, but extremely noble - he sacrificed everything to give them a chance.
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# ? Mar 23, 2020 01:42 |
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Epicurius posted:How was Everworld, or at least what you read? Pretty good, honestly. It’s clearly aimed for an older audience than Animorphs, as its over all tone is much darker than even Animorphs gets at its worst. It tackles a lot of very mature poo poo right off the bat like racism, toxic masculinity, sexual abuse, violence for the sake of survival. It’s very un-Animorphs in terms of its character dynamics. There’s still the witty banter, but a couple members of the core group literally hate one another, in some cases for very petty reasons, so there’s always this uncomfortable tension that grinds the group dynamic even when they make progress. Moreover, one of their core members is basically like Xellos from Slayers in that they are being actively evil and corrosive to the goals of the group and there’s not a drat thing the others can do to stop them. If you’re expecting it to be More Animorphs, you’re in for one hell of a whiplash, but I think it stands on its own really well and it was kind of a shame that it basically got kneecapped by Scholastic when it was clear that it was never going to be More Animorphs.
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# ? Mar 23, 2020 01:49 |
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nine-gear crow posted:Pretty good, honestly. It’s clearly aimed for an older audience than Animorphs, as its over all tone is much darker than even Animorphs gets at its worst. It tackles a lot of very mature poo poo right off the bat like racism, toxic masculinity, sexual abuse, violence for the sake of survival. It’s very un-Animorphs in terms of its character dynamics. There’s still the witty banter, but a couple members of the core group literally hate one another, in some cases for very petty reasons, so there’s always this uncomfortable tension that grinds the group dynamic even when they make progress. Moreover, one of their core members is basically like Xellos from Slayers in that they are being actively evil and corrosive to the goals of the group and there’s not a drat thing the others can do to stop them. Do you think it was partly a marketing thing? Scholastic sells a lot of their books through their Scholastic Book Clubs, which market pretty heavily to elementary schoolers, even having book fairs and mail-order opportunities in schools, and if this was aimed for an older audience, it cuts off an easy sales opportunity. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Mar 23, 2020 |
# ? Mar 23, 2020 01:56 |
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Epicurius posted:Do you think it was partly a marketing thing? Scholastic sells a lot of their books through their Scholastic Book Clubs, which market pretty heavily to elementary schoolers, even having book fairs and mail-order opportunities in schools, and if this was aimed for an older audience, it cuts off an easy sales opportunity. Perhaps? I suppose there's any number of factors for why it didn't take off as well as it could have. This exchange from an AMA is incredibly telling: quote:Q. The Everworld series was probably my favorite thing to read as a teenager. It seems like it would be the perfect material for a movie and or series. Has there been any interest shown in that regard? Another big factor in Everworld imploding was it was just too much for Applegate and Grant in terms of workload. Between Animorphs ending and Remnants starting, it was just kind of... there, and was the messy collateral damage between those two gravity wells colliding.
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# ? Mar 23, 2020 08:30 |
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The Invasion-Chapter 8quote:"I hope I'm asleep," I muttered. "I really do." Yep, he did it. He's a cat. Morphing also gives him telepathy, which, I guess you can rationalize as the Andalites realizing they still need to be able to talk to each other when morphed. (Of course, the real reason is that they need some way for the heroes to talk to each other in animal form.) quote:<That is so excellent! Hey, pull a string for me to chase.> This sets up a bunch of potential if the books want to go this way, with the question of "what does it mean to become another species?" What happens if the transformed characters' human rationality leads them one way and the animal instinct leads them another? Can you control the morph? quote:"You'd better change back," I said. Could be a handy thing to learn, yes. Of course, as we saw, the Andalites don't wear clothes, so it was never an issue for them. quote:"We?" And we know what Homer would say... But yea, Jake is their leader. There was a 26 episode Canadian TV show based on the books that aired on YTV and Global in Canada and Nickelodeon in the US from 1998 to 2000. It was, from what I heard, fairly good. Jake was played by Shawn Ashmore, who's most famous for playing Bobby Drake/Iceman in the first three X-Men movies. He's still acting. He does some television and voice acting in video games, and was in a really bad Bruce Willis movie in 2018 called "Acts of Violence". Epicurius fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Mar 25, 2020 |
# ? Mar 24, 2020 00:02 |
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He's currently in The Rookie with Nathan Fillion as a hilariously badly written lawyer, too.
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# ? Mar 24, 2020 21:40 |
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The Invasion-Chapter 9quote:It isn't painful. Morphing, I mean. Ok, so he just absorbed his dog. It probably makes sense, the trance thing. You don't want to be sitting there meditating while you're poking an angry tiger. quote:Tobias was sitting patiently when I got back, just waiting. "Give it a try," he urged me. "Think about it. Want it." So morphing takes a deliberate act of will, which means, theoretically, if you stop concentrating you can, I guess, be stuck in the middle of a morph. quote:"You have to do this," Tobias said. And the transformation is done. I do sort of like the details of how morphing feels. quote:I was a dog. It was insane. But just the same. I was a dog. Again, we're seeing the idea that becoming an animal means you actually become that animal, and its identity and desires are laid over your own, so it's another conscious act of will to master it. And, yea, full emotion does seem to be a dog's go to thing. Dogs tend to be either really happy, really sad, or really angry. quote:There was a knock on my bedroom door. Yes, my bedroom door. I knew who I was again. I was Jake. Jake with four legs, a tail and a snout, but Jake. Jake's a good dog. Also, we meet Tom, and Tom has a "strange smell about him", and also he hears an echo of the laugh that he had heard while amongst the Yeerks. Hmm. I wonder where the author is subtly going with this.
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# ? Mar 25, 2020 02:43 |
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Tom is a perfectly fine upstanding young man and I won't have his name besmirched in this thread. Clearly Jake is just biased because he sucks at basketball while Tom is awesome at it.
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# ? Mar 25, 2020 02:58 |
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nine-gear crow posted:Tom is a perfectly fine upstanding young man and I won't have his name besmirched in this thread. Clearly Jake is just biased because he sucks at basketball while Tom is awesome at it. No human could be so good at basketball.
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# ? Mar 25, 2020 03:10 |
Okay, this took a distressing turn.
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# ? Mar 25, 2020 03:42 |
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nine-gear crow posted:Pretty good, honestly. It’s clearly aimed for an older audience than Animorphs, as its over all tone is much darker than even Animorphs gets at its worst. It tackles a lot of very mature poo poo right off the bat like racism, toxic masculinity, sexual abuse, violence for the sake of survival. It’s very un-Animorphs in terms of its character dynamics. There’s still the witty banter, but a couple members of the core group literally hate one another, in some cases for very petty reasons, so there’s always this uncomfortable tension that grinds the group dynamic even when they make progress. Moreover, one of their core members is basically like Xellos from Slayers in that they are being actively evil and corrosive to the goals of the group and there’s not a drat thing the others can do to stop them. Yeah I really loved Everworld. It's not More Animorphs but if you like Animorphs there's a big chance you'll like it as the more adult version of Animorphs. But despite that, it's more adult in a good way. And I actually legitimately like the whole "the characters don't all get along at all" group dynamic a lot.
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# ? Mar 25, 2020 03:57 |
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Animorphs rules and I’m excited to follow this thread and yell about it with you folks.
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# ? Mar 25, 2020 05:30 |
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I wish we had more time inside the mind of a Good Boy
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# ? Mar 25, 2020 12:50 |
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Radio Free Kobold posted:I wish we had more time inside the mind of a Good Boy
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# ? Mar 25, 2020 16:57 |
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So this is really nitpicky but since we already discussed plot holes a little, I had never noticed this:quote:"I had fur, Jake. And I was growing claws. You should have seen the real Dude. He went nuts. I had to put him outside before I could morph all the way. He clawed me up pretty good." Tobias stuck a sliced finger into his mouth. We learn later that morphing heals you so if Tobias got cut while morphing into a cat his finger cut should have healed when he transformed back. Which raises the question of why Elfangor didn't just morph something and run away and then be healed completely when he morphs back. I don't remember if the morph healing thing comes up in this book or if it's something she comes up with later. Anyway I'm a big fan of these books, looking forward to this.
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# ? Mar 25, 2020 23:50 |
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OctaviusBeaver posted:So this is really nitpicky but since we already discussed plot holes a little, I had never noticed this: In the case of Tobias, It’s probably psychological. He must have imagined himself still injured when he transformed back. As for Elfangor...we’re expected to believe he’s in too much pain to morph, I guess...but not too much pain to deliver exposition. Edit: Or maybe he didn’t want to be taken alive and turned into a Controller. Even a healthy Elfangor probably didn’t have much chance of winning in that situation. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 26, 2020 |
# ? Mar 26, 2020 01:11 |
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The Invasion-Chapter 10quote:I called all the others on the phone after I got done morphing back into my normal body. Tobias took off on his own, saying he'd hook up with us later at Cassie's farm. I was on the kitchen phone with Cassie when Tom came in. Ok, so we're finally going to meet Tom, who we've heard a lot of, and who's so far just told a dog to shut up. quote:I looked over at Tom. He's bigger than me, even though I'm not exactly small. His hair is darker, almost black, while mine is brown. So one of the themes of the series is paranoia. At the beginning, Jake warns that the Yeerks can be anybody, even somebody you know, even somebody you trust, somebody you love. But at the same time, the tragedy and the fear is that you don't know. And that's what you're seeing in this scene. Last chapter, Jake detected something off about Tom, and now, Tom's not acting the way he's "supposed to". He doesn't care that Jake didn't make the basketball team, he's no longer interested in the game, he's into this new club called "The Sharing". But, the thing is, you don't know. Tom could be a Controller host, but there are also plenty of other reasons that he could be acting this way. Maybe it's a girl, like Jake thinks. Maybe the Shining is a cult. Maybe it's drugs. And it's the not knowing that's frightening. quote:When we were done talking, I headed outside to mow the lawn. I mow the lawn every Saturday. It's my major chore. That, and taking out the trash, which I hate, because we have to do all this recycling stuff. That last line comes across as really 90s to me. Remember the days before single stream recycling, where you had one container for newspapers, and one for cardboard, and one for metal, and one for glass, and one for plastic? quote:When I was finally done mowing and trimming and raking, I hopped on my bike and took Which is pretty handy for people who need immediate access to animals to morph into. quote:"Hey, guys," I said. ACAC? All cops are Controllers? quote:"If the police have been infiltrated by the Controllers, who knows how many others have, too?" Rachel asked. "Teachers? People in the government? The newspapers and the TV?" Can't trust anybody. Especially math teachers quote:"I tried to tell myself it was all a dream," Rachel said. We had seen Tobias's tragedy earlier...mother dead, father missing, bounced around between aunt and uncle. Now we see Marco's. His mother's dead and his father's fallen apart. And it's interesting how these two characters tragedies lead them to completely opposite attitudes. Tobias has nobody who he cares about or cares about him. So he's gung ho about this...it gives him a reason to continue, it gives him a mission, a purpose, it gives him a family. Marco, it's the opposite, because its just his dad and him, and he feels a responsibility to his dad that takes up his life. So, he's got that sort of responsibility, which is consuming him. quote:I wondered if I should go pat him on the back or something. But if I had, Marco, being Marco, would have just said something sarcastic. Cassie is good. And she figured out away around the whole naked thing. quote:Suddenly we heard the sound of tires on gravel. ACAC
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# ? Mar 26, 2020 01:34 |
Epicurius posted:We had seen Tobias's tragedy earlier...mother dead, father missing, bounced around between aunt and uncle. Now we see Marco's. His mother's dead and his father's fallen apart. And it's interesting how these two characters tragedies lead them to completely opposite attitudes. Tobias has nobody who he cares about or cares about him. So he's gung ho about this...it gives him a reason to continue, it gives him a mission, a purpose, it gives him a family. Marco, it's the opposite, because its just his dad and him, and he feels a responsibility to his dad that takes up his life. So, he's got that sort of responsibility, which is consuming him. This is really neat. Having two characters get different outlooks from very similar traumas is something that not a lot of authors would do. quote:
Finally, something that I expect to see in a YA series!
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# ? Mar 26, 2020 02:23 |
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OctaviusBeaver posted:So this is really nitpicky but since we already discussed plot holes a little, I had never noticed this: It is a little bit of a plot hole but I think that’s just because K. A. was still working out the rules of morphing in this book. It’s like when minor stuff changes from the pilot of a tv show. Another example is Jake being able to thought-speak to Tobias our of morph, which as far as I know doesn’t happen again in this book or series.
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# ? Mar 26, 2020 04:21 |
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Honestly, there are a bunch of inconsistencies in the books, and Applegate admits it. Her comment on the entire thing is “I do make mistakes from time to time, I'm afraid. I try not to, but on the other hand, it can be kind of a game for readers: Find the KASU. The Katherine Applegate Screw Up.” It's fair, I guess.Even the best edited books have errors, and these aren't the best edited books.
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# ? Mar 26, 2020 04:42 |
The writing is pretty simple, but this book is already dealing with way heavier stuff than you would expect from it. "They never found the body" isn't an average sentence halfway through a kids' book.
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# ? Mar 26, 2020 13:34 |
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It seems like if the andalites had just taught the yeerks how to morph, they wouldn't even need to be conquering and controlling other species in the first place huh. Probably a bad idea to give them that power since the yeerks so far seem like huge dicks, but it's a thought.
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# ? Mar 26, 2020 14:49 |
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The topic does come up later in the series fwiw
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# ? Mar 26, 2020 16:11 |
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The Invasion-Chapter 11quote:"Cassie. Morph. Now!" I snapped. The police car was coming fast. "We do not want to have to explain a half-horse half-person." So this is just confirmation that the Yeerks are actively looking for the kids at the construction site...its not just a newspaper article with the promise of a reward. quote:"Okay, rule number one," Rachel announced firmly. "We don't do anything to attract attention. We have to be secret about everything. Especially morphing." And more information about morphing...you can morph with skintight clothing. quote:"That's not going to be a problem," Marco said firmly. "Because there isn't going to be any more morphing." While they are children's book protagonists, I think it's kind of good to see that they aren't just gung ho about the entire "Lets go on an adventure!" sort of thing. They're reluctant, which makes sense. I mean, I know I'd be. quote:Marco and I took off toward my house again, trying to act normal. We talked about the baseball season. We talked about who was going to slaughter who in Dead Zone 5, which is this CD game we were going to play on my computer. No doubt. That's also the least subtle interrogation I've seen.
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# ? Mar 27, 2020 00:11 |
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Interesting to note how much Marco and Tobias dislike each other here. It takes them quite a few books to really warm up.
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# ? Mar 27, 2020 01:36 |
Poor Cassie, thought of ants and morphed.
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# ? Mar 27, 2020 04:59 |
I get that they needed to establish things quickly, but man... those question sessions are just painful
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# ? Mar 27, 2020 13:25 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I get that they needed to establish things quickly, but man... those question sessions are just painful "So, you guys playing video games? Cool, cool. Hey, you know what would be crazy? If alien parasites infected people's brains. You guys.don't know anybody who thinks that, right? No? Ok. Hey, if anybody says anything like that, tell me, so we can laugh at them together. Well, I got stuff to do. Mom says make sure you set the table before she comes home. Later!"
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# ? Mar 27, 2020 14:31 |
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How old are all the main kids supposed to be anyway, don't remember if that got mentioned.
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# ? Mar 27, 2020 15:16 |
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Avalerion posted:How old are all the main kids supposed to be anyway, don't remember if that got mentioned. It's not really mentioned at this point, but the general idea is that they're middleschoolers, like 13-14.
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# ? Mar 27, 2020 15:27 |
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# ? May 13, 2024 07:54 |
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Avalerion posted:How old are all the main kids supposed to be anyway, don't remember if that got mentioned. Mid to late teens, I thought. Like, 14-16. Old enough to run around town and Radio Free Kobold fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Mar 27, 2020 |
# ? Mar 27, 2020 17:11 |