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'Cause he's the best there is at what he... yeah, I got nothin.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:43
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IMHO, Hellions sucked so hardcore. Wells got the tone and characterization of Sinister so painfully wrong. He felt too campy even for the 92 animated series
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Mar 26, 2020 03:07
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Codependent Poster posted:X-Men/FF showed once again, that Cyclops was right and people should listen to him. Cyclops was right in three different X books this week. Everyone is doing a great job with him.
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Mar 26, 2020 03:23
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Open Marriage Night posted:Cyclops was right in three different X books this week. Everyone is doing a great job with him. That said, in X-Men/FF....he should have asserted his authority as Commander. They're in the field, and by the laws of Krakoa he had every right to shut that nonsense down, even over the wishes of multiple members of the Council.
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Mar 26, 2020 03:32
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I think Sinister was laying it on a little thick but if this means that louche camp Sinister is really sticking in lieu of Brooding Grim Mastermind as the default way people write him, I'm willing to tolerate some speedbumps. I know there was a rumor/actual reports that Fox was lining up Jon Hamm to play Mister Sinister in the sequel to the New Mutants movie that finally came out I guess? I'd be 1000% more interested in him playing the Gillen/Hickman/etc. Sinister than anything from the previous 25-30 years of portrayals of him. Quick Google Edit: HAHA THAT MOVIE STILL ISN'T OUT?
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Mar 26, 2020 03:36
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Edge & Christian posted:I think Sinister was laying it on a little thick but if this means that louche camp Sinister is really sticking in lieu of Brooding Grim Mastermind as the default way people write him, I'm willing to tolerate some speedbumps. it was finally going to come out then a global pandemic happened i'm convinced the next time new mutants has a set release date an astroid will hit the earth
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Mar 26, 2020 03:39
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BROO
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Mar 26, 2020 04:00
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Edge & Christian posted:I think Sinister was laying it on a little thick but if this means that louche camp Sinister is really sticking in lieu of Brooding Grim Mastermind as the default way people write him, I'm willing to tolerate some speedbumps. It was supposed to premiere in April.
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Mar 26, 2020 04:40
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Broo and Kid Gladiator undermine all the seriousness of this latest issue, and that’s the perfect legacy for Aaron’s X-Men. And we had Eyeboy in Giant Size Nightcrawler this week.
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Mar 26, 2020 06:34
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Open Marriage Night posted:Broo and Kid Gladiator undermine all the seriousness of this latest issue, and that’s the perfect legacy for Aaron’s X-Men. And we had Eyeboy in Giant Size Nightcrawler this week. It'll be fun to see Broo and Kid Gladiator interacting again. I should reread Wolverine and the X-Men, but I just dread it getting derailed by both AvX and Battle of the Atom. Battle of the Atom isn't bad per se, just way longer than it should be, moving the time displaced O5 to Cyclop's team could've been done in two issues easily and the only other thing is that Wolverine/Mystique evil kid stuck around but I never saw him in anything again except an OGN that I think most people didn't read.
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Mar 26, 2020 07:13
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Well, Scott certainly wasn't right in Wolverine #2, letting Logan go fix the pollen traffic matter alone and get mind controlled again.
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Mar 26, 2020 12:29
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I was wondering if they were trying to do some reverse telepath trace with that, using Wolvie as an intermediary? Kind of like bad sci-fi hacker poo poo where they backtrace the IP ping using the MAC signature that the virus leaves as it gets to 99% infection.
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Mar 26, 2020 17:46
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Heck yeah giant size Cypher and Magik (guest starring Nightcrawler) and Warlock! 
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Mar 26, 2020 23:17
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Synthbuttrange posted:Heck yeah giant size Cypher and Magik (guest starring Nightcrawler) and Warlock! Yeah, it's a great issue, but it's not a Nightcrawler issue.
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Mar 26, 2020 23:21
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Should have been a New Mutants issue.
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Mar 26, 2020 23:54
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A discussion in another thread reminded me that Nightcrawler has been to actual literal heaven so it's weird that he's planning to start a new religion. I mean yeah it's hard to see Jesus' resurrection as anything miraculous when you and all your buddies have basically made death a joke and you can go to the post-resurrection orgy every Friday, but Kurt knows for a fact that Christianity leads to heaven. Though granted, in Marvel apparently all religions, along with all their heavens and hells, exist and are equally valid. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Mar 27, 2020 |
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Mar 27, 2020 00:01
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TwoPair posted:A discussion in another thread reminded me that Nightcrawler has been to actual literal heaven so it's weird that he's planning to start a new religion. I mean yeah it's hard to see Jesus' resurrection as anything miraculous when you and all your buddies have basically made death a joke and you can go to the post-resurrection orgy every Friday, but Kurt knows for a fact that Christianity leads to heaven.
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Mar 27, 2020 01:03
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Also, I thought part of the price Kurt paid for leaving actual heaven to save his friends was that he couldn't go back.
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Mar 27, 2020 01:05
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He's also on an island with a woman who was a literal Valkyrie, many faiths (just those two) have afterlives that one can actually verify in the 616.
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Mar 27, 2020 01:43
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rantmo posted:He's also on an island with a woman who was a literal Valkyrie, many faiths (just those two) have afterlives that one can actually verify in the 616. Both Forge and the literal Valkyrie have interacted in direct ways with Native American afterlives too.
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Mar 27, 2020 01:54
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Kurt deciding to start a "mutant religion" is probably the worst thing that's come out of this run. Hickman tried really hard to justify it but it's been the most blatant break from any previous characterization we've seen. The focus on the afterlife- or potential lacking of one- as the defining feature of religion is simplistic and pretty anti-Christian/Catholic. Kurt's belief system as a Catholic should be entirely based on the existence of Christ. Whether Heaven as defined by our current cultural definition "exists" isn't particularly important in the Catholic faith. So Kurt's questioning in light of "immortality" doesn't make sense. It shouldn't matter to someone who was a loving priest. Claremont's use of Kurt as the humanist worked on a couple levels: the obvious one where the demonic-looking mutant was the most angelic and the one where the most religious character also happened to be the most open and accepting. The latter was the most revolutionary, in some ways. Breaking from the mold of religious = judgmental. Also, regarding that "immortality".... How long do they expect to live? Kurt can't expect Krakoa to last more than, what, a century? At best? What if one or more of the Five just decide to cut out? The resurrection procedure is basically a way for mutants to not get MURDERED. It doesn't mean that their lives won't eventually end. So any questions regarding the afterlife are dumb considering at SOME point they'll be dead. Also... does a mutant get a choice NOT to be resurrected? In 50 years, can Storm just be like "Nope, lived a crazy-rear end life. I'm out."
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Mar 27, 2020 04:00
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TwoPair posted:A discussion in another thread reminded me that Nightcrawler has been to actual literal heaven so it's weird that he's planning to start a new religion. I mean yeah it's hard to see Jesus' resurrection as anything miraculous when you and all your buddies have basically made death a joke and you can go to the post-resurrection orgy every Friday, but Kurt knows for a fact that Christianity leads to heaven. Adder Moray posted:Kurt's sold on Catholicism, but what good is a faith that promises an eternal reward after death to a people who no longer have to face it? I mean, Jesus was Jewish and he started Christianity. 
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Mar 27, 2020 05:06
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danbanana posted:Kurt deciding to start a "mutant religion" is probably the worst thing that's come out of this run. Hickman tried really hard to justify it but it's been the most blatant break from any previous characterization we've seen. The focus on the afterlife- or potential lacking of one- as the defining feature of religion is simplistic and pretty anti-Christian/Catholic. Kurt's belief system as a Catholic should be entirely based on the existence of Christ. Whether Heaven as defined by our current cultural definition "exists" isn't particularly important in the Catholic faith. So Kurt's questioning in light of "immortality" doesn't make sense. It shouldn't matter to someone who was a loving priest.
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Mar 27, 2020 05:40
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I think Nightcrawler's religious convictions never being taken especially seriously by anybody but Claremont has been a problem with the character for a long time. There are lots of bad parts of the Austen run so this might not even crack the top 10 but remember when it was revealed that he was fake-initiated into fake-priesthood by an anti-mutant cult using poison holy wafers to explode people? I think it's kind of an issue with the genre as a whole-- I can't really think of anyone aside from Kamala Khan who is really shown to have a realistically nuanced and rich relationship with their faith of the sort that I see all the time in real life. I can think of other religious characters, sure, but for the most part that's either incidental (Kate Pryde) or cartoonish (Reverend Stryker). danbanana's post seems on-point to me in that I wish religion in comics was treated with a little more empathy and complexity, dare I say even more research. I'm not religious, my parents were only sort of religious, but I've done a lot of work on religious texts and popular faith and, well, huge swathes of pre-modern poetry, and I think it's certainly an element of the human experience that gets the short shrift in superhero books. That being said while I haven't been wowed by Hickman's treatment of religion in the past (God is Dead is probably one of the dumbest, most insulting and incoherent comics I've ever read) he's obviously a smart writer who has put a lot of care into this setting, so I'm curious to see how it plays out.
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Mar 27, 2020 06:57
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How Wonderful! posted:I think Nightcrawler's religious convictions never being taken especially seriously by anybody but Claremont has been a problem with the character for a long time. There was a really good filler issue of New Mutants where Amara and Otherwise Worst Character Empath have an argument over how Empath can believe in Christianity when Amara's god Hercules literally exists and has his own book occasionally. I remember it handling the situation really deftly.
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Mar 27, 2020 07:16
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i think there's interesting ground that could be covered with domino having been raised by a catholic priest for a period of time and is still ostensibly a believer, as per Hotshots, considering that the bulk of her modern appearances portray a not particularly catholic lifestyle but i might also be the only person in the world really interested in the deep internal life of neena thurman
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Mar 27, 2020 07:38
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also like Guido was literally king of hell for a bit right. :v yet now here he is on the island too.
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Mar 27, 2020 08:33
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Nessus posted:Sometimes people change their religious opinions. I imagine Kurt has seen enough poo poo to challenge his faith, and he may also, to some extent, want to share his humanistic values rather than just creating an awkward space everyone avoids because they think of Rev. Stryker which gets filled by... Apocalypse. I'm not saying that a Catholic has to stay Catholic and that life experiences can't change beliefs. But that's not what Hickman is pushing here. He's saying that resurrection process changed it for Kurt and that's dumb. Hickman- like a lot of writers and a lot of you folks, frankly- are too heavily connecting religious beliefs to an afterlife. Christians don't believe in God because they believe in Heaven and Hell. Heaven and Hell are part of the Christian "mythology," but not its defining feature. So why would an entirely person-based process for resurrection shake Kurt's belief? Hell, why would it shake it anymore than a defibrillator would? Also, what the gently caress does "I need to start a mutant religion" mean? Because that sounds like some L. Ron Hubbard poo poo; It makes Kurt sound like a loving grifter.
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Mar 27, 2020 14:00
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danbanana posted:But that's not what Hickman is pushing here. He's saying that resurrection process changed it for Kurt and that's dumb. That's neither what Hickman is saying nor what Nightcrawler is saying. Nightcrawler is saying that in the face of their new realities mutants are, culturally, in need of a faith to guide their philosophy and it falls to him, as someone who is both a leader of mutantkind and faithful, to form that faith. It has little to do with Kurt's own beliefs.
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Mar 27, 2020 14:11
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Kurt also very much still believes in the afterlife from his talk with Wolverine before their suicide run on House of X #4
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Mar 27, 2020 14:11
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danbanana posted:I'm not saying that a Catholic has to stay Catholic and that life experiences can't change beliefs. But that's not what Hickman is pushing here. He's saying that resurrection process changed it for Kurt and that's dumb. Hickman- like a lot of writers and a lot of you folks, frankly- are too heavily connecting religious beliefs to an afterlife. Christians don't believe in God because they believe in Heaven and Hell. Heaven and Hell are part of the Christian "mythology," but not its defining feature. So why would an entirely person-based process for resurrection shake Kurt's belief? Hell, why would it shake it anymore than a defibrillator would? I can't speak to your religious experiences, but growing up Catholic I can say that yes, Heaven and Hell is certainly a defining feature of my growing up. Everything you do in life is all about getting into Heaven and avoiding going to Hell. This is what confirmation is about, this is what receiving the Eucharist is about, this is what confession is about. It's about asking forgiveness for your sins so you can get to Heaven. Catholicism practically guilt trips you for doing anything bad because if you do, then you're gonna go to Hell unless you do these things and ask for forgiveness. So yeah, I can buy that Kurt is struggling now. But I think he's also looking to help guide current mutants. Forming a mutant religion because the afterlife doesn't exist, or maybe it does but their souls don't get to spend much time there before they're resurrected? He asks Scott if they're themselves, because neither of them really know. So in creating a religion, he can maybe form some guidance for people struggling with those same questions. After I die, do I come back as myself or am I someone different? Do I actually come back? This isn't even getting into comparisons with Jesus and then maybe asking if this is the same thing that happened to him, or it's different, or now are all mutants basically Jesus? I think we'll see a lot more on this before it's all said and done, too. Though now I'd really like to see Daredevil and Nightcrawler get into a discussion about faith.
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Mar 27, 2020 14:26
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Adder Moray posted:That's neither what Hickman is saying nor what Nightcrawler is saying. This is worse! This is like the Pope showing up on Krakoa and being like, "Hey, I'm religious! How about I start a new religion for you guys?" Codependent Poster posted:I can't speak to your religious experiences, but growing up Catholic I can say that yes, Heaven and Hell is certainly a defining feature of my growing up. Everything you do in life is all about getting into Heaven and avoiding going to Hell. This is what confirmation is about, this is what receiving the Eucharist is about, this is what confession is about. It's about asking forgiveness for your sins so you can get to Heaven. Catholicism practically guilt trips you for doing anything bad because if you do, then you're gonna go to Hell unless you do these things and ask for forgiveness. Also a mostly-lapsed Catholic and while the threat of Hell and promise of Heaven are indoctrination concepts for kids, adult discussions of the faith rarely have anything to do with this. You don't act good out of fear; you act good because you are someone who God gave up his only Son for and that love is something you should always relate your actions to. I can't remember ever hearing a homily that told me acting badly will send me to Hell. I heard a fuckton about God loving me and how my behavior should reflect that. And I've been a member of over a half dozen different churches in my life, so its not like I went to- as my mom would refer to them- a "hippy church" (when we'd move, we'd usually hit a couple in the area until my parents found one that didn't use guitars...). Even if you don't believe in Him, Catholic dogma says good acts- that is, acts that are inspired by God's Love- get you into Heaven. And in THAT case, I can see Kurt's actions but again... maybe someone with a pretty well-defined belief in a previously organized religion isn't appropriate to start a "new" one!
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Mar 27, 2020 14:37
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Codependent Poster posted:I can't speak to your religious experiences, but growing up Catholic I can say that yes, Heaven and Hell is certainly a defining feature of my growing up. Everything you do in life is all about getting into Heaven and avoiding going to Hell. This is what confirmation is about, this is what receiving the Eucharist is about, this is what confession is about. It's about asking forgiveness for your sins so you can get to Heaven. Catholicism practically guilt trips you for doing anything bad because if you do, then you're gonna go to Hell unless you do these things and ask for forgiveness. My Catholic experience was much the same. The other thing that has to be said is that, despite its reputation, Catholicism is really not a monolith, there are a ton of shades and interpretations therein. I grew up vaguely Catholic but it was Chicago North Side Catholic which is crazy liberal and accepting (by Catholic standards.) Hell, I went to a seminary high school and was still taught fundamental aspects of Catholicism incorrectly by priests. Given everything he's seen and experienced, I completely buy that Kurt would create a faith for mutants either because he was inspired to do so or because he feels a spiritual absence that it would fill Codependent Poster posted:Though now I'd really like to see Daredevil and Nightcrawler get into a discussion about faith. Especially if Zdarsky and Anthony Oliviera wrote it.
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Mar 27, 2020 14:42
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I’m interested in seeing Nightcrawler’s mutant gospel. It’ll probably be more spiritual and grounded than other major religions. It’s not like he’s going to go “Mutant God told me nobody should eat the green Krakoan fruit on Tuesday, lest you incur his wrath.”
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Mar 27, 2020 17:38
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danbanana posted:This is worse! This is like the Pope showing up on Krakoa and being like, "Hey, I'm religious! How about I start a new religion for you guys?" When the Pope has irrefutable evidence that his faith is not the only valid one, and that it is inapplicable to a large percentage, if not tha majority, of an entire people searching for answers, it'd be pretty irresponsible of him to bang the same gong over and over. Mutants aren't looking for answers about their eternal souls after death. What does Catholicism have to say about the nature of your memories and astral self being placed inside of a new body? What does it say about your personhood. What does it say about the morality of committing "suicide" when it isn't actually suicide. When you know for a fact that, barring extreme unforseen circumstances, you're going to continue to draw breath on this Earth? These are questions mutants, as a people, need to grapple with and not questions that Catholicism addresses.
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Mar 27, 2020 18:21
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Adder Moray posted:These are questions mutants, as a people, need to grapple with Then the best character to address it probably isn't the one with a long-established, particular belief system. My issue isn't with a "mutant religion" (though I still think that's a weird thing to just start out of the air) but that it's lazy writing to suggest that the person developing it also happens to be the one character who has been most open about his personal religious beliefs. It's out of character for Kurt to suddenly want to be Mutant Mark and put down a Gospel of some sort. Why not Dani, who has been part of a religious pantheon before? Why not Forge, who has spanned spiritualism and technology in ways that would better fit into Hickman's theme of mutants vs. tech? Why not loving Boom Boom, given the hedonism of Krakoa? There's hundreds of more interesting characters but instead they just went "well, this guy's talked about God before so lets do that!"
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Mar 27, 2020 18:40
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Or Exodus, the pre-existing head of.... mutant religion.
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Mar 27, 2020 18:42
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whether or not kurt is the most suitable person, he's definitely the one who would step up and do it. that's just who he is.
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Mar 27, 2020 18:49
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danbanana posted:Then the best character to address it probably isn't the one with a long-established, particular belief system. gimme the GOD drat candy posted:whether or not kurt is the most suitable person, he's definitely the one who would step up and do it. that's just who he is. How Wonderful! posted:Or Exodus, the pre-existing head of.... mutant religion.
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Mar 27, 2020 18:58
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This mutant religion thing will probably come to a head between Nightcrawler, Exodus, and Apocalypse.
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Mar 27, 2020 19:05
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