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OzFactor posted:For Hornet, play it slow, listen to the great song, and learn her tells. She is not aggressive unless you are--a lot of her moves are reactionary. So let her show her tell, make her move, and then punish her for it, one hit at a time. If you keep all the way across the screen from her, you can heal when she throws the needle straight at you, it won't make it all the way to you. Thanks- funny enough, I finally beat her by equipping the charm that makes you invulnerable longer when you get hit, and basically played it like Bloodborne and got up in her rear end. Ultimately I think I'd have found the fight much less frustrating if a) the poo poo she says lined up with her moves rather than being random, and b) just touching her didn't damage you (i.e. if she actually had to use her weapon rather than being in the vicinity). I'll freely admit though the real issue is I'm just terrible at this game. Honestly half my attempts against her I was going in down one health from screwing up killing my own dumb ghost.
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Mar 28, 2020 03:14
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You're likely to have trouble with all the bosses then. It's important to learn to read their movements and wait for your moment to strike, because chances to heal are very limited. If you lose health from fighting your ghost you can always turn around and kill some stuff to heal before triggering the boss fight.
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Mar 28, 2020 03:17
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Organza Quiz posted:You're likely to have trouble with all the bosses then. It's important to learn to read their movements and wait for your moment to strike, because chances to heal are very limited. If you lose health from fighting your ghost you can always turn around and kill some stuff to heal before triggering the boss fight. I found that one of the most valuable things to focus on in this game is learning how to heal against them. Many bosses at least one attack that you can tell won't hit you early on, giving you a safe opportunity to heal. On Hornet for instance it's her AOE attack and her needle throw if you're all the way across the room from her. For other bosses it's trickier, like getting to the other side of the room from the Watcher Knights and you can't hear them rolling yet. It's also good to know that the stunned state of Hollow Knight bosses isn't like every other video game and it's for healing, not attacking. Also I've seen multiple people say they got through bosses by just equipping max damage, face tanking everything, and spamming as hard as possible so hey, if it works it works (the double-damage bosses kinda kill that strat, though).
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Mar 28, 2020 07:35
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thumper57 posted:Thanks- funny enough, I finally beat her by equipping the charm that makes you invulnerable longer when you get hit, and basically played it like Bloodborne and got up in her rear end. Ultimately I think I'd have found the fight much less frustrating if a) the poo poo she says lined up with her moves rather than being random, and b) just touching her didn't damage you (i.e. if she actually had to use her weapon rather than being in the vicinity). I'll freely admit though the real issue is I'm just terrible at this game. Honestly half my attempts against her I was going in down one health from screwing up killing my own dumb ghost. Her tells are visual, not audio. Each of her attacks has a slightly different animation, and the audio call just means that she's going to do an attack.
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Mar 28, 2020 07:49
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thumper57 posted:Thanks- funny enough, I finally beat her by equipping the charm that makes you invulnerable longer when you get hit, and basically played it like Bloodborne and got up in her rear end. Ultimately I think I'd have found the fight much less frustrating if a) the poo poo she says lined up with her moves rather than being random, and b) just touching her didn't damage you (i.e. if she actually had to use her weapon rather than being in the vicinity). I'll freely admit though the real issue is I'm just terrible at this game. Honestly half my attempts against her I was going in down one health from screwing up killing my own dumb ghost. Your next challenge / brick wall is likely the mantis lords. That fight is all pattern based, the only randomness is which attack they use. The world opens up a lot more after that fight and you can go explore multiple areas and look for more powerful charms and weapon upgrades. In fact, you technically don’t have to beat them, just grab the movement power up before that fight and come back later if it’s too hard when you’ve got a few weapon upgrades. You’re almost at the point where most of us realized that this is the most amazing game ever, stick with it! And don’t forget to stash all your geo in the bank, (when you find it), so you won’t lose it all when you die and can’t recover your corpse. E: drat now I feel like starting up a new game myself. Maybe this will be the run that I finally git gud enough to beat Nighrmare King Grimm. Double E: SILKSONG WHEN?! 
Cartoon Man fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Mar 28, 2020 |
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Mar 28, 2020 12:00
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cptn_dr posted:I'm taking advantage of lockdown to finally finish Hollow Knight... or at least get AN ending for Hollow Knight. But man, I'm running up against the Traitor Lord and I just keep fuckin' dying. I am bad at this game, but it's too charming to put down. As someone noted, Traitor Lord is completely optional unless you're going for the "good" ending, so you could just not do it. It used to be a pushover, and they buffed it, and now the fight is insane. If you want to kill it, here is the advice I always give for how to cheese the fight. There are spoilers here, nothing crazy but I talk about where to get the stuff I recommend having. You will need the Flukenest charm (reward from hidden Flukemarm boss in the Royal Waterways) and the Shaman Stone charm (buy from Salubria, $220). The first one replaces your fireball spells with slightly different versions of those spells, and the latter boosts spell power. Equip those and whatever other survivability charms you want. You will also need to have the upgraded fireball, Shade Soul (get from Soul Sanctum, need to buy Elegant Key from Sly and win a miniboss fight), and you'll want to have every possible Soul Vessel. Having every possible mask is also helpful since you're trying to kill it before it can kill you. The modified fireball spell shoots flukes instead of fireballs. The flukes have poor range, but are extremely high damage. The flukes are individually articulated and you need to hit with every fluke, every cast, to maximize damage. Do the best you can to survive; you need all your Soul for spells. If you have max Soul Vessels, chain casting all your flukes into Traitor Lord won't quite kill it, but it will come really close. Unload all your spells, then whack it a few more times, and it should die. This will probably take a few tries. It's a dangerous walk to the boss, so if at all possible, I suggest having the Dream Gate ability (reward from the Seer for Essence) so you can just warp back to the fight if you die. Besides the fight itself, which is super annoying, it's made even worse by the fact that you have to fight those stupid normal mantis enemies every time, giving you more chances to get hurt.
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Mar 28, 2020 12:11
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Cartoon Man posted:Your next challenge / brick wall is likely the mantis lords. That fight is all pattern based, the only randomness is which attack they use. The world opens up a lot more after that fight and you can go explore multiple areas and look for more powerful charms and weapon upgrades. In fact, you technically don’t have to beat them, just grab the movement power up before that fight and come back later if it’s too hard when you’ve got a few weapon upgrades. I'm the person who somehow totally missed the mantis lord fight altogether and merrily continued through most of the rest of the game before eventually seeing references to it online and looking up where it was.
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Mar 28, 2020 15:26
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Organza Quiz posted:I'm the person who somehow totally missed the mantis lord fight altogether and merrily continued through most of the rest of the game before eventually seeing references to it online and looking up where it was. I need to do this fight, apparently, and I somehow still haven't found wherever you get the ability to swim through acid
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Mar 28, 2020 16:00
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Organza Quiz posted:I'm the person who somehow totally missed the mantis lord fight altogether and merrily continued through most of the rest of the game before eventually seeing references to it online and looking up where it was. Same. I even went back to the mantis village a few times because I could see that there was something different with the floor. I just never managed to wander up to the correct switch to open it.
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Mar 28, 2020 16:30
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TheMadMilkman posted:Same. I even went back to the mantis village a few times because I could see that there was something different with the floor. I just never managed to wander up to the correct switch to open it. I actually hit that switch but had no idea it opened the floor up even though that room drops you off right in front of it. My introduction to Deepnest was through the pit entrance which is like the worst (best) way because of the infinitely spawning enemies.
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Mar 28, 2020 19:32
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OzFactor posted:It's not the Shade Cloak that locks you out of the first ending, it's the Void Heart. I mean, you probably would have liked that information sooner, sorry. No, I just assumed for whatever reason Hornet would show up at the egg after you got the brand. Oh well. It got me back into practice, once I got the cloak, I proceeded to fly through bosses that used to give me trouble like it was nothing. Beat Pantheon of the Sage for the first time Sly is a fun boss, surprisingly easy, I have the most problems with the two brothers fight. I also got good enough at fighting Zote I finally got the beetle girl to pack up and leave. He was always the biggest barrier to me beating the Pantheon of the Sage. Not too much left, the Radiance, Nightmare Grimm... still need to beat Trail of the Fools, only tried a few times but keep dying at the same spot, right before the final spikes go down.  Now to attempt the Pantheon of the Knight I suppose, the final boss looks fun, but boy does everything after the Failed Champion look like pain.
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Mar 28, 2020 22:48
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wyoming posted:Now to attempt the Pantheon of the Knight I suppose, the final boss looks fun, but boy does everything after the Failed Champion look like pain. Pantheon of the Knight is at least has some re-fight versions of bosses you've already done. The three base game dream bosses, Enraged Crystal Guardian etc. so you've already built up some of the muscle memory you'll need.
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Mar 29, 2020 05:09
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Stuck at home and I decided to pick this back up! Good Lord I suck in god home. So I started a new play through and the muscle memory is coming back. And it's still so enjoyable and charming. I'm paying attention to the environment more and seeing story beats. I'm heading to the Mantis Lords now and started seeing spikes with bug heads on them. "Mantis town ahoy!" This game is incredible. I'm gonna not gently caress up Zotes line. I still never fought him.
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Mar 29, 2020 12:58
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I've been trying to beat Hornet 1, on and off, for about two years now.  I would love to see more of the game; what I've seen so far, the exploring and practicing I do each time I come back, it's such a luscious place. I've never even got Hornet to the third stagger though.  I don't think there's anything more I can find to power-level my way through this fight. At best I can have the soul catcher or stalwart shell equipped, but not both. The only spell I have is bug-hadouken. I'm pretty sure I can't get enough mask-bits or soul-bits to get a full unit of either. I take it that if I still don't have the real-world endurance to get through Hornet 1, no matter how often I come back to the game, I don't stand a chance in hell against the really tough stuff? 
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Apr 4, 2020 09:56
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dingo with a joint posted:I've been trying to beat Hornet 1, on and off, for about two years now. Huh. I wonder if you wouldn't be better off playing some other games to build up skill before returning to it? It might just be a hand-eye coordination thing. Not sure which games to recommend though, I was glad to have played Celeste before I played this but that was more for platforming skill and confidence than boss fights. There are other much harder fights than hornet, but also the game opens up much more so you have much better access to stuff to beef yourself up more.
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Apr 4, 2020 10:12
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Two years is a pretty long time, but hey you never know when something will click. The game does sometimes require you to really commit to certain playstyles, and for most bosses that means accepting that your opportunities to heal are extremely limited. I think a lot of players get tricked by the healing system into thinking that being offensive will also result in being able to heal more, and then constantly find themselves in a panicked state of trying to be more and more recklessly offensive hoping it will get them further. Sometimes you'll even get pretty far in the fight that way, but it may not really be building up the kind of habits that will actually carry you all the way. Honestly if there's any one thing to do to practice, I'd suggest that you try going into the boss fight and just dodging her attacks. Don't throw a single attack of your own; just see how good you can get at not taking damage, for as long as you feel comfortable. Only once you're getting in the groove of dodging everything should you see how you can fit in attacks safely. My girlfriend has a ton of trouble with platformers and precision combat stuff and I really thought she was getting brick-walled by the Hornet fight, but that defense-first strategy really seemed to help her mentally develop her offense over time instead of just panicking every single fight.
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Apr 4, 2020 10:45
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Seriously just watch a video of that fight and figure out what you are doing wrong. Hornet is a very simple pattern recognition fight with very tiny windows for healing that might not seem obvious. Hornet is also a teaching boss battle. She demands you learn to jump over bullshit and when and how to make space. Sometimes a video game boss is attacking you on an axis you are not prepared for, and just watching how someone else deals with it can really help you figure out what you’re loving up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks173TPQhKQ The audio mixing on this video is subpar but he breaks down the whole fight for you step by step. If you can't beat her with the help from this video, i don't see you making it any further in the game, because nothing short of a save state download is gonna make it easier than this. Jumping over her nail throw to bop her 1-2 times before jumping back over it is probably the most timing intensive aspect of the fight. but he correctly asseses that it's entirely about the simple pattern recogntion and giving YOURSELF enough space to adjust based on her attacks. Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Apr 4, 2020 |
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Apr 4, 2020 14:05
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Thanks for the advice, folks! I'm good at pure platform games (2-D Mario etc), but introduce some melee combat to the mix and I become a total scrub... On this most recent return to the game, I did some research, and learned that Hornet has 225 hitpoints, and that the nail does 5 damage, so I need to hit her exactly 45 times. Which is a lot of hits. And it's that endurance that's been the tough bit for me. I can stay alive for quite a while, but she wears me down faster than I can wear her down. Part of that though is that I expend so much effort on dodging her that I very rarely actually manage to get a strike in, and as such I gain soul infrequently. I notice three things in particular that dude in that linked video is doing during the fight that's different to how I've been approaching it: 1) He never uses vengeful spirit, he keeps his soul entirely for healing during the respites. Whereas I know I traditionally fire off that fireball the moment I have enough soul and see an opening, because I know it does triple the damage of my nail and figure I need all the help in the damage race that I can get. 2) He doesn't panic when he gets hit. I know I do, given that five hits and I'm dead. Dude on the video takes it in stride, confident that he can save up enough soul through hits to be able to heal back all the damage during a respite. 3) He gets in hits waaaaaaay more frequently than I do, and often more than one hit at a time, which not only cuts down on the fight length, it also builds soul for healing way more quickly. Putting all of that together, I think I need to get freaked out less about taking hits, stop spending soul on vengeful spirit, and figure out the timing for getting in attacks more regularly. 
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Apr 5, 2020 03:20
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If you don't feel confident in your healing, using Vengeful Soul is fine. Everybody plays the game a little differently, some like the spells while others prefer sticking to melee. And thankfully the game is open to being played differently, too, so I'm sure you can find a style that works for you.
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Apr 5, 2020 03:25
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thumper57 posted:Thanks- funny enough, I finally beat her by equipping the charm that makes you invulnerable longer when you get hit, and basically played it like Bloodborne and got up in her rear end. Ultimately I think I'd have found the fight much less frustrating if a) the poo poo she says lined up with her moves rather than being random, and b) just touching her didn't damage you (i.e. if she actually had to use her weapon rather than being in the vicinity). I'll freely admit though the real issue is I'm just terrible at this game. Honestly half my attempts against her I was going in down one health from screwing up killing my own dumb ghost. Cartoon Man posted:Double E: SILKSONG WHEN?! Silksong when it's loving ready.  edit: ^^^that's a really good video because he fucks up and gets hit a lot, instead of it being a perfect "look at how good I am with my 200+ hours of experience not getting hit" iFlynn-type affair, and watching it makes you think "no... ya shoulda jumped there" "Don't go for that extra hit" and that is how you make a good tutorial video. Show what to do, but show what not to do in a way that makes the viewer want to pick up a controller and have a go and correct the mistake they just saw. Cactus fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Apr 5, 2020 |
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Apr 5, 2020 03:42
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dingo with a joint posted:Thanks for the advice, folks! I'm good at pure platform games (2-D Mario etc), but introduce some melee combat to the mix and I become a total scrub... Maybe try thinking of it more as like a platforming challenge? She's just a moving obstacle that you have to avoid, so all of your timing skills from platforming should still work! I think when I first fought her I focused on staying the gently caress away from her ranged attack and area-of-affect attack and just hitting her when she did her dashes, because I found them the easiest to dodge and still stay close enough to her to hit her in between attacks.
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Apr 5, 2020 05:05
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It is worth noting that her intro sprites are different depending on what attack she is about to use. These can be hard to distinguish (which I suspect is a big factor in why the fight is such a challenge). But you can reliably punish both the air dive and needle throw moves, and then just keep moderate distance otherwise.
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Apr 5, 2020 07:06
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You can try to hit her from above as you jump over her dash attack, too.
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Apr 5, 2020 07:17
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IMO the only time it’s worth it to hit her with Vengeful Spirit is during her Silk AoE move. You should be able to 1-2 tap her during her other 3 moves.
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Apr 5, 2020 12:21
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One more thing, it's definitely possible to get 4 mask shards for a health upgrade before you encounter Hornet, but I can see why you wouldn't expect that. There are two that you've probably gotten from the shop, and I'll spoiler some other available ones: Defeat the Brooding Mawlek in Forgotten Crossroads. The door to his area is right below the entrance to Greenpath. The path is very spiky and may look unpassable for now, but you can bounce along the spikes by attacking downward on them. If you're into platforming as you say, this isn't actually that hard! Brooding Mawlek isn't exactly a pushover at that point in the game, but it's a drastically slower fight than Hornet. Once you learn what to do it is a much less in-your-face panicky fight. You get one shard for collecting 5 grubs and checking with grubdad; I think by the time you're at Hornet there should be 6 or 7 of these reasonably available. One or two might require messing with bouncing on spikes and stuff, but I think you can get 5 without any crazy tricks. There's a mask shard in a darkened area in Greenpath; if you get the Lumafly Lantern for 1800 Geo you can see better in dark areas. Farming up 1800 geo seems like it would be pretty lame at this point though. There's actually another one in Forgotten Crossroads, but getting it is pretty tricky at this point in the game. It's in the hallway below the False Knight area, and normally you need later movement skills to get in the secret passage leading to it. Getting to it now requires kiting a fly near the passage and bouncing off it for extra height; I feel like the first two methods are a lot more reasonable and this one feels a bit silly to go out of your way for at this point, so maybe look up a map on your own if you wanna do this one. Getting an extra health could actually make a big difference. Good luck bug bro.
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Apr 5, 2020 18:21
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I'll nth the inability to get past Hornet. I get that there are tells for what attack is coming up, yet I was still unable to successfully avoid them enough to beat the boss and ended up quitting in frustration after 20-some attempts.  I love the look and feel of the game and would love to toggle on invulnerability and just explore the world at my own pace. Or just a lower difficulty setting? I get that some folks enjoy games to be brutally hard, but not having the option to take it down a notch just means players like me will never get the opportunity to enjoy the game and will avoid anything else from the studio.
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Apr 5, 2020 18:38
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If you don’t care about challenge or learning the game then just cheat. There’s god mode mods out there
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Apr 5, 2020 18:43
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skasion posted:If you don’t care about challenge or learning the game then just cheat. There’s god mode mods out there
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Apr 5, 2020 19:05
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Just keep plugging away at it. Honestly you can do it. You really can. And the feeling you'll get when you do......
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Apr 5, 2020 20:46
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I don't think there are any easy to use HK cheats. I was looking into it before the Uumuu godmaster nerf because I was mad.
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Apr 5, 2020 20:52
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Cugel the Clever posted:I'd looked into that back when i ran into the brick wall, but didn't have any luck. Will check back on it. The only games I've used cheats have been those where I can just open the dev console, put in a command, and have at it, so anything else is perhaps just unfamiliar enough to know what to look for. If you don't mind using CheatEngine, this site probably has everything you could want. It's not just god mode and such. There's also a lot of QoL scripts (in general, I haven't looked at the Hollow Knight tables).
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Apr 5, 2020 21:11
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I understand wanting to explore the world, but the motivation to conquer Hallownest, the drive to improve, the risk of exploring and dying vs the reward of even more loot and new powers... God like everything I love about Hollow Knight is pretty much tied to the difficulty. If you’re gonna cheat at that point just watch an LP or something. I can’t imagine downloading mods and running a borked version of the game is substantially easier than just studying the video I posted and just getting her down.
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Apr 5, 2020 21:23
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itry posted:If you don't mind using CheatEngine, this site probably has everything you could want. Bust Rodd posted:I understand wanting to explore the world, but the motivation to conquer Hallownest, the drive to improve, the risk of exploring and dying vs the reward of even more loot and new powers...
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Apr 5, 2020 21:34
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it's a single-player game so imo you need not concern yourself with what bust rodd cannot imagine, because that might leave you with precious little time to actually play the game hopefully you can slay the infernal hornet
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Apr 5, 2020 21:38
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hollow knight is my favorite game and I loved overcoming the challenges it presented to me and I would never judge a person for not having the capacity* to deal with that particular aspect of the game and I highly encourage people to do whatever they have to to be able to experience the rest of the game *I feel like this phrasing might be insulting but I do not intend it that way and just can't think of a better way to say it
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Apr 5, 2020 23:12
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For me personally, part of the joy of Hollow Knight comes from the difficulty and overcoming that difficulty by getting better at the game. But other people cheating to beat that game doesn't affect my enjoyment at all, and they can take enjoyment in their own way.
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Apr 5, 2020 23:21
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I adore this game and I like a challenge sometimes, but the difficulty isn't what I love about it. Also I never beat the Radiance or NKG or the Trial of the Fool or any of the Godhome stuff.
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Apr 5, 2020 23:24
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I think it'd be interesting to discuss what makes each of the roadblock bosses into such roadblocks...but first, what are the real roadblock bosses?
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Apr 5, 2020 23:31
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that crystal guy on the bench the second time you fight him scum that he is also i started playing hyper light drifter again because of this thread
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Apr 6, 2020 00:19
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The Soul Master was a major road block after Hornet. Once you get good with him you'll feel great.
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Apr 6, 2020 01:03
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