|
ilitarist posted:ME2 was like 80's action movie, or like modern Marvel movies. Khizan posted:ME2 was all about the characters and their side missions. That's why people love it. Mordin's role in the genophage, Garrus' revenge, Jacob finding his father, etc. That's the good stuff. The main story sucks and nobody denies that. Oh yeah, I agree with both of you. It's just fresh on my mind since I played through the trilogy recently and, despite ME2 being fun, it felt like it was the weakest and kind of a pain in the rear end to play through. I hadn't felt that way about it before since I never went ME1 -> ME2 -> ME3 in quick succession, but I've had too much free time recently.
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2020 21:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 04:53 |
|
|
A Buff Gay Dude posted:Uh lol no Yeah ME3 soured me well before that. The real turning point was Wrex turning into such an rear end in a top hat but really that stupid loving kid on earth was enough
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2020 22:36
|
|
|
Dragon Age 2 > any Mass Effect 
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2020 23:13
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Dragon Age 2 > any Mass Effect Dragon Age 2 is my favorite Bioware game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2020 23:15
|
|
|
Khizan posted:Dragon Age 2 is my favorite Bioware game. Honestly same since I already admitted that.  But yeah ME2 is an 80's action movie. Shepard is a badass recruiting a crew of badasses to go on a suicide mission. All it's missing is someone who's too old for this poo poo. (Which you get if you have Zaeed.) If you aren't making Shepard say as many bad one liners as possible, why are you even playing? The actual reason for the suicide mission or the outside lore isn't as important as the fun characters along the way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2020 23:24
|
|
|
Y'all are nuts. DA2 is definitely on the weaker end of Bioware's output. Now Jade Empire on the other hand.......
|
|
#
?
Mar 28, 2020 23:27
|
|
|
the racist game
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 00:43
|
|
|
DA2 is awesome and does more with its characters than any of their other games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 01:36
|
|
|
Admiral Ray posted:The most aggravating part of that is here we had Commander Shepherd, the first human Spectre, hero of the Alliance, killed and nobody even tried to figure out what went wrong. An exorbitantly expensive top secret stealth ship is destroyed and neither the Turian Hierarchy or Human Alliance investigated? Military investigations take months for the simplest of mishaps, but the loss of an entire ship gets. . . nothing. Council wrote it off as acceptable losses for getting rid of Shepard. they sent Shepard off on a wild geth hunt and didn't look too close when they got shot down: mission accomplished Spectres are supposed to extrajudicially enforce the Council's will without question or objection, but Shepard's this weirdo millenialist who ignores Council orders and keeps telling everyone they live in a giant robot-god spiderweb. the Council only made them a Spectre as a sop to the humans after another Council Spectre torched a human colony. Council's probably glad to be rid of them for their part the Alliance is just chuffed it got in good with the Council, though arguably as the Alliance's shadow goverment Cerberus' Project Lazarus is the Alliance response to Shepard dying
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 02:12
|
|
|
chaosapiant posted:DA2 is awesome and does more with its characters than any of their other games. DA2 succeeds in spite of itself in that the NPCs are all so sufficiently complex you like or hate them with a fury. Very few games you play where you're either ready to murder the world to side with your favorites or genuinely thrilled to poo poo talk them and insult them in conversations. I still remember there's some scene with Isabella where you can outright call her on some bullshit and she gets pissy and storms off from the table. The game launched and they forgot to include auto-attack, or any other maps, but it's got enough going on to be a great fun game and the DLC was a big improvement.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 02:27
|
|
|
I really appreciated that they removed the need to change your companions armor, though you still had to fiddle with their jewelry. They really could've hit it out of the park if their outfit would change every timeskip, but that's presumably a consequence of no time available. As well auto-leveling gear was really neat even if it was applied too sparingly. It's a feature I'd love to see more, where if you find a really great item it could be carried with you for the rest of your adventure. I suppose just a transmog feature would accomplish the same thing, but something I conceptually like is having "Your Sword/Weapon" and you are improving it during the game, rather than just throwing it away for the first upgrade you come across.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 02:32
|
|
|
Furnaceface posted:ME2 gets the pass from people mostly because it had the highest highs to offset the low points. Mordin breaking into song will forever be one of my favourite moments in any of the games. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 04:57
|
|
|
I think I approach critiques of things like games a little differently than most; I'm of the opinion that a piece of artwork can be judged on both an objective level (did the developers successfully do what they set out to do, did they communicate the messages or themes or ideas that they intended to?) and a subjective level (did I, the player, engage and enjoy with what was presented to me?). An objective measurement can be difficult to do, because I can't exactly just go ask the developers to grade their own game or what they'd intended to do with it, but I think on some level it's possible to derive the developer's intent. A subjective measurement is also deceptively difficult, because so many factors can go into whether I've engaged with the art, both inside the art and outside it. Adding to that, BioWare games themselves are difficult to judge, because they change. Or at least, they try to. Mass Effect 2 tells a different story than Mass Effect 2 with the Arrival DLC. I know this because I've extensively played it both ways. I can say that Mass Effect 2 has very little to do with the Reaper plotline outside of token references to them, because it does, until you install the Arrival DLC, which very suddenly brings the Reapers back into focus and explains why Shepard is in detention at the start of Mass Effect 3... unless you didn't have it installed, in which case is Shepard is in detention because "the crazy things you did, anyone else would've been court-martialed". Adding to that further, a lot of BioWare's DLC has the explicit feeling of existing to patch up fan complaints and plot holes. Why is Liara's personality so different in Mass Effect 2? Oh, here's a DLC to explain that! Why aren't the Reapers really in Mass Effect 2? Oh hey, another DLC! Why does Mass Effect 3 explain the Reapers as doing what they're doing because of organics and synthetics fighting? Oh dang, another DLC! And so on and so forth. It's why I consider Mass Effect 2 to be the best. By itself it's the most internally consistent to me in terms of communicating its themes and ideas, while also having gameplay systems to back them up, unlike Dragon Age 2 where I found what the dialogue had conflicted with what I saw happening in the game itself. I'm also engaged while playing it, unlike Dragon Age Inquisition's design that takes too much inspiration from MMO's. None of this is to say that the Loyalty mechanic stands up to scrutiny, because it doesn't, but BioWare actually tried to integrate the story with the gameplay systems. Rating the games is difficult for one last reason, and it's that I only dislike Andromeda. I don't dislike Dragon Age 2, I am frustrated by Dragon Age 2, because it had so much potential to be so much more, and it didn't live up to that potential; partially because of EA, and partially because of BioWare's own ambition outstretching their reach. I guess that's why my own ratings are more a ranking of least-to-most frustrating: Mass Effect 2 Mass Effect 3 Dragon Age: Origins Dragon Age: Inquisition Mass Effect 1 Dragon Age 2 Mass Effect Andromeda <-- actually no, this one is here because the storytelling and characters are utter poo poo. Dragon Age 2 is so much better than this
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 05:18
|
|
|
We've had what, 3 BioWare RPGs since DA2? Now it's gone from the worst game ever into actually the best one. BioWare should put out games more often so that people one day talk about how cool Andromeda actually was.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 09:22
|
|
|
I can't help but compare DA2 to another awesome sequel that was vehemently, passionately hated for years - Metal Gear Solid 2. I've loved that game ever since it came out but everywhere online it was the topic of endless ridicule. I remember it getting poo poo on in Chip's MGS1 and 4 LP thread. It took ten years or so but eventually, at some point after 2010 I'd reckon, people started liking it a lot. They appreciated its brilliance and ambition, even if it was as patently unfinished as DA2. I think the enmity for DA2 will just continue to fade and its pros will be exalted more and more.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 10:01
|
|
|
Admiral Ray posted:The most aggravating part of that is here we had Commander Shepherd, the first human Spectre, hero of the Alliance, killed and nobody even tried to figure out what went wrong. An exorbitantly expensive top secret stealth ship is destroyed and neither the Turian Hierarchy or Human Alliance investigated? Military investigations take months for the simplest of mishaps, but the loss of an entire ship gets. . . nothing. That was the most believable aspect of Shepard's death in Mass Effect 2 given the state of the galaxy. Always bouncing from one crisis to the next, always repeating the mistakes of the past with some new version of the same mistake, who cares about some random dead guy the new Blasto is coming out!!
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 11:15
|
|
|
Khizan posted:ME2 was all about the characters and their side missions. That's why people love it. Mordin's role in the genophage, Garrus' revenge, Jacob finding his father, etc. That's the good stuff. The main story sucks and nobody denies that. The genophage plot is awesome in all three games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 11:26
|
|
|
Vichan posted:The genophage plot is awesome in all three games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 12:15
|
|
|
I think all 3 games are pretty black and white about whether the Genophage is evil or not tbh.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 12:42
|
|
|
Mass Effect 3 makes it clear you're a huge rear end in a top hat for letting the genophage continue, to the point where you have to shoot Mordin in the back unless a very specific set of circumstances is achieved.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 13:10
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:I think all 3 games are pretty black and white about whether the Genophage is evil or not tbh. ME2 introduced some complexity to it by giving you Mordin to talk to. He makes a strong case that the genophage was the only alternative to wiping the Krogans out. The genophage was carefully designed to not kill all Krogans, but to limit their numbers. Something that ME3 completely ignored is that normally a single Krogan female can lay up to 1000 eggs per year. Before the Krogans were uplifted the harsh conditions of Tuchanka kept their population in check. But once they're in space, their numbers exploded. Which set of the Krogan Rebellion as they needed more planets. Remove the genophage and that will just happen again. Ethically the genophage is still extremely messed up. But is it a necessary evil or not? You can do some interesting writing with that. ME3 just tossed everything ME2 introduced aside. And the genophage was pure evil again. The writers even made it look super, extra evil by adding imagery of still births (even though previously the Krogans were supposed to lay eggs and the genophage was supposed to affect fertility).
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 13:14
|
|
|
It's a literal weapon of genocide my guy. It's the slow eventual unstoppable death of a culture and people and even the architect of it, our good buddy Mordin is super messed up by it. Yeah it makes sense why the Genophage was made and why Mordin would go about using it, but I think that's a very different thing from it being portrayed as good or positive. No matter how much Mordin tries to convince himself.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 13:18
|
|
|
The genophage is bad my man, there was nothing morally ambiguous about it other than Mordin being a character we like who also participated in genocide. That contributes to the complexity of his character arc, but it doesn't make the genophage an ethically ambiguous or defensible idea.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 13:22
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:It's a literal weapon of genocide my guy. It's the slow eventual unstoppable death of a culture and people and even the architect of it, our good buddy Mordin is super messed up by it. This is the important part. Even Mordin doesn't truly believe the Genophage was a good thing. He's talented in rationalization but he's just trying to cope with the guilt and I think that is apparent in ME2 itself.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 13:30
|
|
|
Strategic Tea posted:The thing I think everyone forgets about ME2 is just how try-hard edgy it came across at first, especially after ME1's optimism. I still remember Jack's intro video where she's talking about her tattoos. Watch out! She has ink, y'all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 14:13
|
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:It's a literal weapon of genocide my guy. It's the slow eventual unstoppable death of a culture and people and even the architect of it, our good buddy Mordin is super messed up by it. And as Mordin points out, if the goals was to genocide the Krogans they could have done that. The genophage was meant to stabilize their exponential birthrate and force the Krogan's to look inward and change as a people. I'm not saying the genophage should be unequivocally good thing. It is ethically messed up for a number of reasons. What I am saying is that ME3 sucks. ME2 set things up for there to be an actual hard choice for the player to make. Paragon vs Renegade as a concept was not supposed to good vs evil after all. Do you want to do the wrong thing for a right reason. Or do you do what is right, fully aware of what the consequences will be? Instead the ME3 writers just went for the lazy good vs evil shtick, while ignoring or contradicting their lore yet again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 14:41
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I can't help but compare DA2 to another awesome sequel that was vehemently, passionately hated for years - Metal Gear Solid 2. I've loved that game ever since it came out but everywhere online it was the topic of endless ridicule. I remember it getting poo poo on in Chip's MGS1 and 4 LP thread. Lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 15:32
|
|
|
ilitarist posted:We've had what, 3 BioWare RPGs since DA2? Now it's gone from the worst game ever into actually the best one. BioWare should put out games more often so that people one day talk about how cool Andromeda actually was.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 17:59
|
|
|
Lt. Danger posted:Council wrote it off as acceptable losses for getting rid of Shepard. they sent Shepard off on a wild geth hunt and didn't look too close when they got shot down: mission accomplished The ship cost a lot of fuckin' money. You don't think the Turian co-designers would want to know why their literally brand new stealth ship failed? drat thing was only like a year old. I know ME2 is just dumb action shlock that doesn't make sense, so trying to make it make sense just makes the game worse. exquisite tea posted:That was the most believable aspect of Shepard's death in Mass Effect 2 given the state of the galaxy. Always bouncing from one crisis to the next, always repeating the mistakes of the past with some new version of the same mistake, who cares about some random dead guy the new Blasto is coming out!! Nah, that's council level poo poo. They don't have time to deal with it, but the Turian Hierarchy and Human Alliance would sure as poo poo want to know. Udina doesn't actually have any authority over humanity, the Alliance Parliament does. I'd expect at least one or two whacko clowns screaming "SHEPGHAZI" at the liberal hoax Alliance Prime Minister or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 18:13
|
|
|
the problem with Tuchanka wasn't that Bioware didn't try to defend the indefensible, it was that what they had lacked any kind of bite or interior conflict at all. everyone who is cool and good agrees to cure it; the only people who oppose the plan are the mean old dalatrass and some faceless Cerberus mooks. yawn. would have been better if Mordin had stuck to his misguided guns to the endAdmiral Ray posted:The ship cost a lot of fuckin' money. You don't think the Turian co-designers would want to know why their literally brand new stealth ship failed? drat thing was only like a year old. I know ME2 is just dumb action shlock that doesn't make sense, so trying to make it make sense just makes the game worse. who cares about money when you're the supreme pan-galactic authority to be clear the SR1 was investigated, they rescued the survivors and located the crash site - the political will just wasn't there to go any further. Council was happy to wash their hands of a problem operative and blocked all the mid-level technocrats on the stealth ship project so they could draw a line under it Lt. Danger fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Mar 29, 2020 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 18:15
|
|
|
Mass Effect 2 Mass Effect 1 Dragon Age: Origins Mass Effect 3 Dragon Age 2 Mass Effect Andromeda Dragon Age: Inquisition I utterly loathed Inquisition's boring-rear end open world, over-reliance on crafting, incredibly mediocre combat and boring magic. A lot of the characters were also kind of a miss for me. I think the only thing I liked Inquisition better than was Dragon Age: Origins' various terrible DLCs. Now, I never actually played Andromeda, but given my more positive outlook on the Mass Effect series over Dragon Age, and what I watched from Many a True Nerd's let's play, I'm almost certain I'd at least like it better than Inquisition.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:12
|
|
|
Colgate posted:Mass Effect 2 Definitely can see that take on Inquisition but Andromeda has an even more boring-rear end open world and reliance on crafting/finding resources. The combat is pretty decent but there's not much in the way of encounter design, and the characters aren't great either.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:19
|
|
|
At least enemies in Andromeda aren't inflated hp wise like in Inquisition, which is one of DAI's worst sins. Granted both games absolutely prove that crafting should be belong in single player rpgs. I will always prefer finding cool unique armor/weapons to a crafting plan.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:21
|
|
|
Strategic Tea posted:The thing I think everyone forgets about ME2 is just how try-hard edgy it came across at first, especially after ME1's optimism. The Renegade scars look so much better in ME3. My Shepard looked horrifying by the end and that was good. I just wish they had somehow worked it into the story. Imagine the Citadel party, everyone is chilling and having a good time, and then you walk up with your mutilated, stitched up face.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:30
|
|
|
Eimi posted:At least enemies in Andromeda aren't inflated hp wise like in Inquisition, which is one of DAI's worst sins. crafting BG2-style is fine -- you find a legendary weapon that's amazing on its own and then go on a quest to find a pommel jewel or something that makes it better
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:34
|
|
|
Eimi posted:At least enemies in Andromeda aren't inflated hp wise like in Inquisition, which is one of DAI's worst sins. I much prefer crafting to finding, and think you must have forgotten the creatures in MEA. Those gorilla type things are basically pride demons in every way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 19:35
|
|
|
gently caress crafting and most finding. Your character almost inevitably has some meaningful items, buff that poo poo. Give me "oh thank you for finishing this part of the story and being level 12, hero warden, as thanks my greatest smiths shall give the Cousland family sword and shield an extra bit of dwarven know-how (+stats to your beloved gear)"
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:12
|
|
|
Pattonesque posted:crafting BG2-style is fine -- you find a legendary weapon that's amazing on its own and then go on a quest to find a pommel jewel or something that makes it better That is cool. Improving your items so you can keep your family sword or whatever throughout the game is cool and good. Edgar Allen Ho posted:gently caress crafting and most finding. Your character almost inevitably has some meaningful items, buff that poo poo. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:16
|
|
|
it is pretty easy to ignore crafting in ME:A since outside remnant gear you can usually just buy level appropriate stuff for cheap what sucks about ME:A crafting is augments are a one time thing and you cant just rip them out and put into a new weapon/armor you craft when the next quality tier unlocks so you pretty much just never use them just like potions edit: you also cant craft augments and so have to rely on another random drop after you research them sooooo yeah
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 04:53 |
|
|
SyntheticPolygon posted:It's a literal weapon of genocide my guy. It's the slow eventual unstoppable death of a culture and people and even the architect of it, our good buddy Mordin is super messed up by it. So are the krogan. They are, biologically, an entire species of violent psychopaths and it's on the game for introducing the lore not the players or characters for reacting to it. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the Krogan won't go straight back to turbo warcrimes the second their birth rate is reverted to normal. There is no good option. This is kind of the problem with using scifi aliens, which are actually fundamentally different from humanity, as a lens for examining the idea of multiculturalism. It leads to hosed up messaging.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2020 20:47
|
|
