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Jobbo_Fett posted:First loser is France. ETA: Votes are updated now. We've had a couple votes for "allied wins" (a couple people said "Russia wins, with ally ____", and someone else explicitly said "Joint UK/France victory". Not entirely sure how to handle this. My initial thought is to say you're only allowed to bet on one nation, but as long as that nation is part of the victorious alliance when the game ends, that counts as a correct bet. So if you say "France", then you win either if they solo own the board or if it's part of a joint victory. Comments or other ideas? MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Mar 30, 2020 |
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Mar 30, 2020 15:14
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The game sadly doesn't count joint victories. It DOES count mutually agreed draws from all remaining surviving players. At which point, as a thread, wr can assess who owns what and see which party/parties truly won.
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Mar 30, 2020 15:36
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HisMajestyBOB posted:Similarly, Turkey moving its fleet to Eastern Med or Aegean and army to Con is, in my opinion, a stronger opening than what they went with They can't though, the fleet starts in Ankara.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:17
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MagusofStars posted:Jensenjin Really? Also I vote for A-U victory, cause of, reasons...
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Mar 30, 2020 16:21
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Betting on Austria-Hungary for overall winner.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:55
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Cythereal posted:Yeah, my experience is that if England just tries to stick to Scandinavia and the Low Countries, they're going to get bogged down and become irrelevant. England needs to make bold moves to become a power player, and the path to a victorious UK always involves a dead France. This kind of approach can work in the early game, but only if a dagger is coming for France's back. Yeah. And the issue is right now with the less than aggressive moves Germany and Italy are making in the direction of France (though it would be a really unorthodox opening for Italy to be trying to have a go at France right now) If I were france I'd be strongly considering building F brest and while it wouldn't be game over for England, french fleets in ENG and MAO is a guarantee of irrelevance on the continent.
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Mar 30, 2020 16:59
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in addition to betting that britain is the first eliminated, i will also bet that they are the final winner
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Mar 30, 2020 17:20
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A general tip for diplomacy which i hope all players are following is that you absolutely must be talking to every country,regardless of how irrelevant they seem to you. If you're playong as Britain and you arent talking to turkey, you'll suffer if the french player is coordinating with them.
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Mar 30, 2020 17:42
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A key note for folks not familiar with Diplomacy: the game is so named because no nation can punch out another on its own barring extreme and bizarre circumstances. You have to work together with other players to get anything done. But, of course, actual orders are submitted to the guy (or app) running the game in secret. So, as the name of the game hints, diplomacy is the key to the game. You aren't getting anything done by yourself, but you won't know what exactly everyone else is doing until you see the moves for the turn. So how confident are you in what everyone else will do - versus what they say they'll do? Movement in this game is also very slow and very deliberate, so where you choose to move armies and fleets is significant. Not just in terms of map movement and control, but given the above points, your choices of unit movement will be examined closely by everyone for clues as to what you're really thinking, planning, and who you've been talking to.
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Mar 30, 2020 17:51
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GuavaMoment posted:They can't though, the fleet starts in Ankara. Derp, you're right.
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Mar 30, 2020 17:59
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biosterous posted:in addition to betting that britain is the first eliminated, i will also bet that they are the final winner A bold bet!
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Mar 30, 2020 19:46
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Going to put my e-cred on Turkey to win.
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Mar 30, 2020 21:28
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Dash Rendar posted:
And also looking rather prescient at the moment
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Mar 30, 2020 21:29
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Fall 1901 Okay, so now that we are entering the Fall turn, some real interesting things are starting to happen. There are currently two big areas of contention, from what I can see: Scandinavia and the Balkans.  So far, the UK has moved in to occupy Norway with its fleet. Russia has convoyed over its St. Petersburg army into Sweden. Both are poised to be in conflict, unless this was a move to "split" Scandinavia. Germany, meanwhile, moves an army into Denmark. Furthermore, neither Germany nor the UK make a move to block France's entry into Belgium. France's Italian border is also unoccupied and they have taken then Iberian peninsula. France seems to be working allies, but it remains to be seen which way they will make their first move.  Austria-Hungary is rapidly expanding into the Balkans. They've now claimed Serbia AND Romania. As well, they have supported Italy into Greece, denying Turkey their movement from Bulgaria. This caused a chain effect and prevent all of Turkey's forces from making any movement. They are currently stalled. Russia has notably made no movement on its southern border.  And behold! The new map is drawn at the end of 1901. I will list the territory acquisitions with the turn orders for each Fall round: (Note: A = army; F = fleet; S = support; C = convoy; H = hold; sc and nc = south coast and north coast respectively) Austria-Hungary F Alb S Apu - Gre A Bud - Rum A Ser S Bud - Rum + A Bud + F Tri United Kingdom A Edi - Yor F Nrg S Nth - Nwy F Nth - Nwy + F Lon France F Mid - Spa (nc) A Pic - Bel A Spa - Por + F Bre + A Mar +A Par - Note: France took the north coast of Spain, rather than the south. Fleets cannot pass "through" a country, so their fleet will not be able to engage in the Mediterranean at this point. It will have to go around. Germany A Ber - Kie F Hol H A Kie - Den + F Ber + A Mun Italy A Apu - Gre (via convoy) F Ion C Apu - Gre A Ven - Apu + F Nap Russia F Bot C Stp - Swe F Sev H A Stp - Swe (via convoy) A War H + A Mos Ottoman Empire A Ank - Con A Bul - Gre F Con - Bul (sc) + F Smy League of Nations Chat posted:<Russia> Well so much for the sovereignty of minor nations. Though really what IS a minor nation? Sally fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 30, 2020 23:18
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welp Turkey's boned. Things are looking up for France. The Navies in NRG and Berlin are ominous for Russia... Bellmaker fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Mar 30, 2020 |
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Mar 30, 2020 23:30
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Pretty standard gently caress Turkey from Italy and Austria, Turkey's going to have a hard time if Russia doesn't feel like helping. Everything else is pretty normal, if distinctly not to England's advantage. England always struggles to be relevant in Diplomacy, and this is what a waffling England likely doomed to irrelevancy often looks like.
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Mar 30, 2020 23:30
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Yeah, I got played. Bravo to Austria and Italy ( I will crush you!)
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Mar 31, 2020 00:04
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Akratic Method posted:Going to put my e-cred on Turkey to win. Bellmaker posted:welp Turkey's boned. Things are looking up for France. I appreciate the mere hours between these two posts.
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Mar 31, 2020 00:04
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Thoughts: -I like what Italy and England are doing. -France too but I'm curious about the fleet in Brest. One to keep an eye on. -Austria also built a curious fleet. Russia seems content to sit there, so build armies instead and go attack! -Germany may have salvaged the situation if there was a French agreement over Belgium. That might explain the fleet in Brest. -Turkey has made no mistakes yet is going to get pounded because they don't have an ally that can help. No moves on Rumania or the Black Sea means Turkey's going to lose Bulgaria, and Russia will get no help in return against the Balkans. The army in Moscow can't help any unit at all next turn, maybe building it in St. Pete would have been better? Turkey's hope is that Russia appears so weak that Italy and Austria attack each other early enough that Turkey can survive.
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Mar 31, 2020 00:16
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Akratic Method posted:I appreciate the mere hours between these two posts. Italy and Austria working together is the one thing Turkey never, ever wants to see. Usually that's part of the rationale behind kissing up to Russia: Russia will threaten Austria and make Austro-Italian cooperation problematic. Russia is not threatening Austria, so Turkey's being served up for a Lepanto.
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Mar 31, 2020 00:33
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Whelp, that didn't go the way I thought it would. All territories were claimed. xD I feel bad for Turkey. They were so close to claiming the AEG sea and being safe from the Lepanto, and they paid dearly for their greedy orders. So let's just try to mess with all the alliances. - Why would France build a fleet in Brest and take the north of Spain? And Marseilles was an army unit instead of a fleet. Since France can't go after Italy, it's probably going to go after England now. Then again, its area of the map is very safe, so it also has the army leverage to threaten Germany too. - Why would Germany build its fleet in Berlin if it weren't trying to take Scandinavia away from Russia? - Why did England so kindly move out of the North Sea? It must be going after Russia with Germany. - Once Austria and Italy are through trashing Turkey, Russia is definitely next. Can it really afford to stay still? - Why would Austria build a fleet in Trieste? It's totally blocked in as-is, so it must be there to threaten Venice and establish sea dominance vs Italy.
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Mar 31, 2020 00:41
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:- Why would Austria build a fleet in Trieste? It's totally blocked in as-is, so it must be there to threaten Venice and establish sea dominance vs Italy. More likely to break into the Ionian Sea than threaten Venice, I think. There aren't many reasons for Austrians building fleets that don't involve loving with Italy (actually, I'm struggling to think of any at all), and I will laugh if the stab comes too early and fucks the Lepanto before Turkey's actually finished.
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Mar 31, 2020 00:50
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Very interesting. -England looks a bit locked in right now, but if they can get a reliable alliance with Germany, there's an opportunity in Sweden to get unstuck. -Italy is clearly working with A-H against Turkey, but both countries have a wide-open back end. Those new French and German armies are interestingly placed. -With the actual placement of forces, Italy is going to need to rush a couple units east to claim extra supply centers from the Turkish invasion. While I'm sure A-H is totally committed to their alliance, I'll just note that if they did want to knife Italy in the back, that fleet in Tri is nicely placed to do so. -As GuavaMoment noted, that Russian army in Moscow doesn't seem to serve much purpose in the short-term.
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Mar 31, 2020 00:55
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Did england really just use a fleet to support a fleet into a spot nobody else could contest?
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Mar 31, 2020 01:45
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No, Russia could've contested it from St. Petersburg. That border!!
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Mar 31, 2020 01:52
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Aagh, that border!!
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Mar 31, 2020 02:18
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Dash Rendar posted:No, Russia could've contested it from St. Petersburg. That border!! I...goddamnit that border was impassible when I tried to move a ship from Petersburg to there and I didn't even think of the drat army. breathes in Ooookay. Not happy. Stupid loving mountain border... Dr. Snark fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 02:44
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I'm fine with the northern opening for England, it's the most common opening by far for a good reason (although you normally park the army in York to cover London from possible French shenanigans, rather than moving it to Edinburgh). I'm not sure I think it's worth evacuating the North Sea for it, but supporting from the Norwegian Sea is the one move guaranteed to not be stopped by Russia and Germany so it's not wrong or anything. I'm not sure I'd read Russia's convoying to Sweden as anti-England nearly as much as anti-Germany. Fleets in Scandinavia threaten England's north sea hegemony, but armies there can't really go anywhere other than Germany. Russia is being extremely passive in the south which I don't really like, a strong Austria or a strong Turkey is usually very bad for Russia so you want to be active against one or the other. I get the feeling they're one of the less experienced players which makes them hard to predict, but this is Dippy so the passivity might just be 5-dimensional chess to not seem dangerous. [E: Apparently it's their first game! Good luck!] France building a fleet in Brest and parking their other fleet on the north coast of Spain instead of the south coast is basically a giant red "hey England I would like to take your stuff now" signal, so England had best conjure some diplomancy with someone nearby. Germany has had a very jobbing sort of opening, getting a solid +2 builds without any overt threats against anyone. The fleet build signifies that they're thinking more about Russia and maybe England than France which is a little surprising, but they could still move in pretty much any direction. I suspect both France and England will be buttering them up hard. I quite like Italy's opening moves. Delaying Tunis makes sense in light of France's very heavily northern focus and cooperating with Austria vs the Turk is generally ends up with a good situation for Italy. Of course, that Austrian fleet is one big spanner in that works: normally an austro-italian alliance will conspire to have Austria's fleet disbanded if anything. Venice is covered so Italy should be immune to any immediate shenanigans and should still be in a good position to negotiate. Turkey's situation is, uh, dicey. If the Austrians do want to move on Italy -- and their builds definitely indicate that they do -- then they will need Turkey in the med, but a turkish-austrian alliance where Austria has a bunch of fleets in the med isn't great for Turkey. Ideally Turkey would get help from Russia in whatever constellation they end up with, but Russia seem uncharacteristically disinterested in the south. There are plenty of alliances that keep Turkey alive, but it's hard to find any that really favor them right now so they probably have to play the long game. Austria probably has the strongest position on the board right now with no one in an immediate position to block them all that effectively and their neighbors probably more keen to be on their good side than try to attack them. On the other hand, I think the Trieste fleet build is antagonizing Italy a little too soon. If you want to turn on the italians then you could've eaten more turkey first. If you don't want to turn on the italians then building a unit that you can only really use to attack italy is not an ideal use of your resources. All in all, my read is that Russia and England are about to be defending against a strong France and Germany in the north. In the south it depends on what Austria wants, which looks a lot like they want to turn on Italy with I assume Turkey's help, but it's hard to be sure. Xerophyte fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 03:05
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Dr. Snark posted:I...goddamnit that border was impassible when I tried to move a ship from Petersburg to there and I didn't even think of the drat army. The fleet starts on the south coast of St. Pete. A fleet can't move from Stp(sc) - Nwy, but can from the north coast. This is also why France's move to the north coast of Spain is so weird. Moving to the south coast gives France a ton more options from a tactical perspective. Diplomatic reasons for moving to the north coast are that it pacifies Italy and angers England a bit.
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Mar 31, 2020 07:53
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If the bets for overall winner is still available, I'm going to randomly choose France.
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Mar 31, 2020 08:00
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For folks new to Diplomacy following along, I do want to just say that the best way to learn the game is to just dive into a round and start mucking about. (This app is more forgiving than a boad even because in most cases it streamlines what kind of orders you can make.) You'll probably lose, but you'll be drat ready for the next game.
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Mar 31, 2020 15:42
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also huge thank you to MagusofStars for gathering those betting votes!
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Mar 31, 2020 15:42
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Spring 1902 Now that most minor nations have been, uh, "annexed", the real fun can begin!  Of note, we have our first proper "bounce". Neither France nor Britain had the strength to force themselves into the English Channel. So a single fleet (1) versus another single fleet (1) cancels each other out. Neither gets to move in and they bounce off each other remaining in their original provinces.  This is represented by these lovely red Xes.  Both have moved reinforcements in, so they are now ready to bounce again--this time 2 versus! Now, just a quick explanation on these two red orders:  Britain's Norway fleet supported its Norwegian Sea fleet into the North Sea. Russia's attack from Sweden cut the support that the Norway fleet was giving, meaning what as supposed to be a move strength of 2 was only a move strength of 1. Fortunately for Britain, Germany did not try to block their movement. Meanwhile, Germany's Denmark army provided a defensive support to Russia's Sweden army. It failed because the Russian army attempted a move rather than a hold. I am guessing that this was a miscommunication between the two powers.  We have a lot going on in the Balkans here, with a combined Austro-Hungarian/Italian force against a Russian/Turkish force. The armies in Romania and Greece supported the Serbian army's attack into Bulgaria. Meanwhile, Bulgaria attempted to attack Romania with support from Russia's Sevastapol fleet--only Budapest was defending Romania. The attacking Bulgarian army's strength was 2, but Romania's defense was 2. This would've resulted in a bounce under other circumstances, but Serbia's attack of 3 meant it was occupying Bulgaria no matter what. And other even OTHER circumstances, the Bulgarian army would have the opportunity to retreat. Only problem is there were no empty provinces to retreat to. In this case, the Bulgarian army was obliterated. We have our first casualties.  This is our new world map going into the Fall. If Turkey can't reclaim Bulgaria this turn, it will fall into Austria-Hungary's hands. Austria-Hungary F Alb - Ion A Bud S Rum A Rum S Ser - Bul A Ser - Bul F Tri - Adr UK F Lon - Eng (failed) F Nrg - Nth F Nwy S Nrg - Nth (support cut) A Yor - Wal France A Bel - Hol (failed) F Bre - Eng (failed) A Mar S Par - Bur A Par - Bur A Por - Spa F Spa (nc) - Mid Germany F Ber - Bal A Den S Swe (failed) F Hol H A Kie - Ruh A Mun - Sil Italy A Apu H A Gre S Ser - Bul F Ion - Eas F Nap - Tyn Russia F Bot S Mos - Stp A Mos - Stp F Sev S Bul - Rum A Swe - Nwy A War - Gal Ottoman Empire A Ank - Con A Bul - Rum (failed - unit destroyed) F Con - Aeg F Smy S Con - Aeg The League of Nations general chat has gone conspicuously silent again...
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Mar 31, 2020 23:08
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So what was Germany trying to order in Denmark? That has to be a misorder. Germany's made some seriously aggressive moves against Russia. Was Denmark supposed to move into Sweden, or support Norway into Sweden? The eastward push is...interesting, considering the armies France is amassing on Germany's borders. Austria's probably wishing they had built another army to solidify the front against Russia instead of floating around the Adriatic uselessly. Turkey's gone full Turkey. Good luck!
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Mar 31, 2020 23:50
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I can't help but feel that Italy has made a deal with the Devil and is about to get pitchforked.
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Mar 31, 2020 23:51
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Lemniscate Blue posted:I can't help but feel that Italy has made a deal with the Devil and is about to get pitchforked. Two Austrian navies would ruffle my feathers if I was Italy, let alone an Austrian fleet in the Ionian. GuavaMoment posted:So what was Germany trying to order in Denmark? That has to be a misorder. Germany's made some seriously aggressive moves against Russia. Was Denmark supposed to move into Sweden, or support Norway into Sweden? The eastward push is...interesting, considering the armies France is amassing on Germany's borders. The question is if it was a misorder or a "misorder" 
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Apr 1, 2020 00:18
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Bellmaker posted:Two Austrian navies would ruffle my feathers if I was Italy, let alone an Austrian fleet in the Ionian. This is exactly what I expected to happen when Austria built its second fleet. The question now is just timing - are they going to actually destroy Turkey first before Austria stabs?
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Apr 1, 2020 00:20
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So now that things have moved to this point, I think it's safe to explain why I (Russia) was unwilling to move to the south until now, to give you all some insight into the behind the scenes machinations of the early turns. Early on Turkey and Austria quickly made an agreement between the two of them on splitting the Balkans between them, with me getting Scandinavia. This was done quite literally before I even got there and was agreed on before I could even react, though I was included in the negotiation notes. This meant (from my perspective at least) that an attack on the Balkans would result in a joint Turkey-Austria alliance against me if I tried to interfere. I did reach out to Turkey about a backstab, but they were reticent about it at the time. This of course all changed when Austria and Italy made their move and made the deal in question null and void. Could I have moved the Sevastopol fleet at least? Errrghh...that would have sent bad signals towards the pair that I didn't want with my focus forced northward. Anyway. With everything that's happened I don't mind sharing that with the thread so they at least have better context for the opening turns in the East.
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Apr 1, 2020 00:28
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A-H's next couple moves will be interesting. They're clearly poised to backstab Italy; those A-H fleets in particular aren't serving much of a purpose except threatening Italy's homeland...but betraying the alliance this quickly might risk collapsing the offensive against Turkey and potentially put A-H in a bad spot. England still seems to be kind of stuck. With France attacking across the channel and moving another fleet in position to come in, there's no obvious vector to expand. No real danger of actually losing, but no clear opportunities to grow either. Also, can someone familiar with the rules clarify something for me? I note that Russia has an army currently in GAL which could, potentially attack either Budapest or Vienna. A-H currently has an army occupying Budapest but not Vienna. So I'm wondering about what could potentially happen: >If Russia attacks Vienna while A-H stays in Budapest, obviously Russia takes Vienna. Pretty straightforward. >If Russia decides to attack unoccupied Vienna while A-H moves into Vienna, the moves cancel each other out, no change in ownership. Also pretty straightforward. >BUT what if A-H moves to Vienna to block, but Russia (anticipating that defense) attacks Budapest directly? Does that stop A-H's army from moving at all, so the end result is nobody moves at all? Or does the A-H army move into Vienna while Russia simultaneously claims Budapest, so the net result is A-H's army is in Vienna while Russia takes ownership of Budapest?
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Apr 1, 2020 03:43
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There's actually a turn wizard in the app available to each player in the game for this very reason! I could run these "what ifs" for you and post them if you'd like.
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Apr 1, 2020 03:50
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