Protest Voting and Electoralism: Burn the Witch!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Protest Voting and Electoralism: Burn the Witch!

PenguinKnight: Apr 6, 2009

Archonex posted:

I'm sure the people protest voting for Trump or not voting for Biden if he wins the democratic primary will be perfectly happy with how LGBT and other minorities are going to get legislatively genocided back into hiding (if not out of existence in some states) if Trump wins a second term.

Pence and the evangelicals are all but salivating at the idea of what they can do without needing to worry about re-election for another 4 years. In particular, they've already put a bunch of cases before the SCOTUS (And have probably made it illegal to discriminate giving medical care to trans people if it's against their "religious beliefs".) and are gearing up to pretty much entirely strip any safety and rights from trans people as well if they pull off a win.

Hi, trans person here. I�m not voting for Biden because my existence has pretty always been used to be thrown under the bus for �reasonable� lgbt legislation by dems.

So I get to choose between a boot on my neck or death by indifference. The only person I fell even gives a poo poo about my existence is Bernie. Everyone else is just �you have to vote for me the democrat because you�re trans and you owe us your vote!�

# ? Mar 31, 2020 19:58

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 16:33

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

HootTheOwl posted:

How Biden will wield executive power isn't whataboutism, it's the central point we're talking about.

And part of that is that he won't actively be appointing people that the Republicans want to use to commit genocide!

Will he be perfect? Will he gently caress up! OF COURSE. That is the point of why the centrists are running him! They'd rather lose to Trump by running this senile jackass than let Bernie win! But that doesn't ignore the fact that it'll lock a lot of really, really, really, murderous people (Who are currently using their access to the executive office to try and get people like me killed) out of power for another four years. And at the very least will force the Republicans to jump through more hurdles to prosecute their altogether nightmarish agenda. Which is an unmitigated good thing, even if it's not the best thing that could happen.

A4R8 posted:

You do know black unemployment increased throughout the Obama years, no? We definitely need to go back to decorum neoliberal politics. It worked so well last time.

And can you please explain to us why voting for a decorum white supremacist rapist is better than voting for a white supremacist rapist?

Hey, so I already did. At least twice, in fact. But it's pretty clear the folks posting in this thread don't give a poo poo and are set on the path of purity politics over actually stopping the Republicans from getting more people killed. Hell, there's a post several ones above the one I just quoted pretending that voting for Biden will help the Republicans push their anti LGBT agenda further. Which blatantly ignores the fact that the Republicans are using access to the executive to stack the courts and make it increasingly dangerous for minorities like me to continue living in this country.

So given that all i'll do is risk a mod getting super butt hurt over a trans person calling some people out for their hypocrisy and tell you to go suck a fat one if the idea of keeping people like me from getting killed isn't "worth" at least gritting your teeth, voting for the less evil senile jackass, and prepping for the next round to sideline or overthrow the establishment of the Democratic party so that poo poo like this can't happen again. I'm not happy about things, but protest voting in this country means jack poo poo when the establishment is actively running a candidate meant to lose. And it's worth even less when the other side is actively trying to legislatively and literally genocide it's own inhabitants out of existence.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 31, 2020

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:00

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

A4R8 posted:

Can some blue no matter who libs explain to me why Biden�s history of rape and white supremacy is preferable to Trump�s?

Dick Trauma posted:

https://twitter.com/PamKeithFL/status/1244515919608545280

Like I said, nothing left but self-parody. "Our senile rapist is less senile and rapey than theirs!"

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:00

Mellow Seas: Oct 9, 2012; Can't post for 10 years!

There is value in discussing the moral question of how bad the "better" candidate can be before they're no longer worth voting for, but it seems to me that this thread has become about "will Biden be better than Trump?", which is not a moral question. We're all just guessing about Biden is going to do, so maybe we shouldn't judge people on a moral level because they have a different opinion on that particular prognostication. There are legitimate arguments to be made that Biden will be significantly better, and arguments that he won't (and I think those arguments are actually being put forth pretty well on both sides).

If, say, you are mad that people aren't going to vote for Biden because you think he's going to be better for LGBT/immigrants/whoever, and somebody says, "no, he won't be better for those people so I'm not going to vote for him", you're not actually arguing about whether it's right to vote for Biden, you're arguing about what a Biden presidency will look like. Which is not a moral argument.

I don't know. Just trying to organize this nonsense in my mind. I'm actually not sure what I'm going to do should a Trump vs. Biden ballot come before me, although I think after the partisanship-boosting effects of a nasty general election I'll probably end up caving.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:00

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Archonex posted:

purity politics

Are you 80 years old? Stop watching MSNBC all day.

Mellow Seas posted:

There is value in discussing the moral question of how bad the "better" candidate can be before they're no longer worth voting for, but it seems to me that this thread has become about "will Biden be better than Trump?", which is not a moral question.

It's not, it's about whether voting for "the lesser of two evils" is good strategy. It is empirically a failure.

How are u would really like it to be able which candidate is more evil, because that argument is convoluted and subjective. It centers people's sensibilities and outrage and a whole raft of woke discourse over which identities are allowed to express which opinions. It also gets caught up in truly absurd assessments of exactly how many people were raped, imprisoned, deported, and killed by each politician. All of which distracts from the fact that the Democratic Party is a conservative institution and Party loyalty actively harms progressive politics.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Mar 31, 2020

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:02

A4R8: Feb 28, 2020

Vote blue no matter who�️ liberals - after they blatantly ratfucked Bernie in 2016 - are the reason why I became a communist after 2016.

quote:

We stand for active ideological struggle because it is the weapon for ensuring unity within the Party and the revolutionary organizations in the interest of our fight. Every Communist and revolutionary should take up this weapon.

But liberalism rejects ideological struggle and stands for unprincipled peace, thus giving rise to a decadent, Philistine attitude and bringing about political degeneration in certain units and individuals in the Party and the revolutionary organizations.

Liberalism manifests itself in various ways.

To let things slide for the sake of peace and friendship when a person has clearly gone wrong, and refrain from principled argument because he is an old acquaintance, a fellow townsman, a schoolmate, a close friend, a loved one, an old colleague or old subordinate. Or to touch on the matter lightly instead of going into it thoroughly, so as to keep on good terms. The result is that both the organization and the individual are harmed. This is one type of liberalism.

To indulge in irresponsible criticism in private instead of actively putting forward one's suggestions to the organization. To say nothing to people to their faces but to gossip behind their backs, or to say nothing at a meeting but to gossip afterwards. To show .no regard at all for the principles of collective life but to follow one's own inclination. This is a second type.

To let things drift if they do not affect one personally; to say as little as possible while knowing perfectly well what is wrong, to be worldly wise and play safe and seek only to avoid blame. This is a third type.

Not to obey orders but to give pride of place to one's own opinions. To demand special consideration from the organization but to reject its discipline. This is a fourth type.

To indulge in personal attacks, pick quarrels, vent personal spite or seek revenge instead of entering into an argument and struggling against incorrect views for the sake of unity or progress or getting the work done properly. This is a fifth type.

To hear incorrect views without rebutting them and even to hear counter-revolutionary remarks without reporting them, but instead to take them calmly as if nothing had happened. This is a sixth type.

To be among the masses and fail to conduct propaganda and agitation or speak at meetings or conduct investigations and inquiries among them, and instead to be indifferent to them and show no concern for their well-being, forgetting that one is a Communist and behaving as if one were an ordinary non-Communist. This is a seventh type.

To see someone harming the interests of the masses and yet not feel indignant, or dissuade or stop him or reason with him, but to allow him to continue. This is an eighth type.

To work half-heartedly without a definite plan or direction; to work perfunctorily and muddle along--"So long as one remains a monk, one goes on tolling the bell." This is a ninth type.

To regard oneself as having rendered great service to the revolution, to pride oneself on being a veteran, to disdain minor assignments while being quite unequal to major tasks, to be slipshod in work and slack in study. This is a tenth type.

To be aware of one's own mistakes and yet make no attempt to correct them, taking a liberal attitude towards oneself. This is an eleventh type.

We could name more. But these eleven are the principal types.

They are all manifestations of liberalism.

Liberalism is extremely harmful in a revolutionary collective. It is a corrosive which eats away unity, undermines cohesion, causes apathy and creates dissension. It robs the revolutionary ranks of compact organization and strict discipline, prevents policies from being carried through and alienates the Party organizations from the masses which the Party leads. It is an extremely bad tendency.

Liberalism stems from petty-bourgeois selfishness, it places personal interests first and the interests of the revolution second, and this gives rise to ideological, political and organizational liberalism.

People who are liberals look upon the principles of Marxism as abstract dogma. They approve of Marxism, but are not prepared to practice it or to practice it in full; they are not prepared to replace their liberalism by Marxism. These people have their Marxism, but they have their liberalism as well--they talk Marxism but practice liberalism; they apply Marxism to others but liberalism to themselves. They keep both kinds of goods in stock and find a use for each. This is how the minds of certain people work.

Liberalism is a manifestation of opportunism and conflicts fundamentally with Marxism. It is negative and objectively has the effect of helping the enemy; that is why the enemy welcomes its preservation in our midst. Such being its nature, there should be no place for it in the ranks of the revolution.

We must use Marxism, which is positive in spirit, to overcome liberalism, which is negative. A Communist should have largeness of mind and he should be staunch and active, looking upon the interests of the revolution as his very life and subordinating his personal interests to those of the revolution; always and everywhere he should adhere to principle and wage a tireless struggle against all incorrect ideas and actions, so as to consolidate the collective life of the Party and strengthen the ties between the Party and the masses; he should be more concerned about the Party and the masses than about any private person, and more concerned about others than about himself. Only thus can he be considered a Communist.

All loyal, honest, active and upright Communists must unite to oppose the liberal tendencies shown by certain people among us, and set them on the right path. This is one of the tasks on our ideological front.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:03

WampaLord: Jan 14, 2010

There are about 800 people browsing D&D right now.

If you somehow crafted the perfect angry post that yelled at them just in the right way that they would all vote for Joe Biden in November, you would still have accomplished nothing on the national scale.

The long and short of it that you can't scold your way to winning an election. I thought we all learned this lesson in 2016. You have to give people something to vote for, not just vote against.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:07

RottenK: Feb 17, 2011; Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

Archonex posted:

Nut the gently caress up and do the right thing.

the right thing is not voting for Joe Biden

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:09

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Archonex posted:

And part of that is that he won't actively be appointing people that the Republicans want to use to commit genocide!

Will he be perfect? Will he gently caress up! OF COURSE. That is the point of why the centrists are running him! They'd rather lose to Trump by running this senile jackass than let Bernie win! But that doesn't ignore the fact that it'll lock a lot of really, really, really, murderous people (Who are currently using their access to the executive office to try and get people like me killed) out of power for another four years. And at the very least will force the Republicans to jump through more hurdles to prosecute their altogether nightmarish agenda. Which is an unmitigated good thing, even if it's not the best thing that could happen.

Hey, so I already did. At least twice, in fact. But it's pretty clear the folks posting in this thread don't give a poo poo and are set on the path of purity politics over actually stopping the Republicans from getting more people killed. Hell, there's a post several ones above the one I just quoted pretending that voting for Biden will help the Republicans push their anti LGBT agenda further. Which blatantly ignores the fact that the Republicans are using access to the executive to stack the courts and make it increasingly dangerous for minorities like me to continue living in this country.

So given that all i'll do is risk a mod getting super butt hurt over a trans person calling some people out for their hypocrisy and tell you to go suck a fat one if the idea of keeping people like me from getting killed isn't "worth" at least gritting your teeth, voting for the less evil senile jackass, and prepping for the next round to sideline or overthrow the establishment of the Democratic party so that poo poo like this can't happen again. I'm not happy about things, but protest voting in this country means jack poo poo when the establishment is actively running a candidate meant to lose. And it's worth even less when the other side is actively trying to legislatively and literally genocide it's own inhabitants out of existence.

Gonna be real with you here buddy, Joe Biden being elected is going to guarantee that those murderous people end up in charge. poo poo has already been hosed for a long time, and now the whole loving house of cards is actually collapsing. Biden has absolutely no interest or capability of fixing things, and as such his election will make an actual big F Fascist takeover very likely after the political system fails completely.

As such, there is no harm reduction argument in favour of Biden here. You're just setting yourself up for actual genocide down the line.

E: Plus that, you know, Biden would lose to Trump real easy no matter what anybody on these forums does or doesn't do.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:12

Mellow Seas: Oct 9, 2012; Can't post for 10 years!

WampaLord posted:

There are about 800 people browsing D&D right now.

Sure, it's only 800 people, but we're all so charismatic and influential!

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:13

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Archonex posted:

I'm sure the people protest voting for Trump or not voting for Biden if he wins the democratic primary will be perfectly happy with how LGBT and other minorities are going to get legislatively genocided back into hiding (if not out of existence in some states) if Trump wins a second term.

Pence and the evangelicals are all but salivating at the idea of what they can do without needing to worry about re-election for another 4 years. In particular, they've already put a bunch of cases before the SCOTUS (And have probably made it illegal to discriminate giving medical care to trans people if it's against their "religious beliefs".) and are gearing up to pretty much entirely strip any safety and rights from trans people as well if they pull off a win.

But hey. Your morals matter more than the effect they have on the world. gently caress that Biden guy. Not like he was any different than Trump with his indifference to minorities instead of outright malice towards anyone the fake christians want to use as an excuse to justify their barbarism, right?

What's that? Many of those same posters spent years performatively saying all the abuses of the administration were horrible and someone ought to stop them? Well, I do say! Surely things will turn out better this time then.

Ah, well, nevertheless.

Does committing rape disqualify someone for the presidency, in your opinion?

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:13

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

WampaLord posted:

There are about 800 people browsing D&D right now.

If you somehow crafted the perfect angry post that yelled at them just in the right way that they would all vote for Joe Biden in November, you would still have accomplished nothing on the national scale.

The long and short of it that you can't scold your way to winning an election. I thought we all learned this lesson in 2016. You have to give people something to vote for, not just vote against.

Kay. Guess i'll just wait to die when some doctor decides that treating me for the coronavirus/the next big medical crisis/whatever is against their religious beliefs once that SCOTUS ruling comes through. Or I end up on the streets when one of my employers realizes it's now legal to fire someone because they're trans. Or any of the other awful poo poo the Republicans are using the executive to push.

VitalSigns posted:

Does committing rape disqualify someone for the presidency, in your opinion?

This is a loving stupid question meant to be used as a gotcha. Of course it does. They're both rapist scumbags. But if Biden wins then that's our choice of options. Not voting to stop Trump will literally put people like me in an even more vulnerable position. Do you not understand this? Or is it that you just don't believe it. Or that it will matter? Or do you not care? I'm genuinely asking. This isn't one of the poo poo posts or whatboutisms that got posted up above to ignore what I was trying to say. Do I need to post evidence of how much worse a second Trump term is going to be for a lot of people? Or does that not even matter? I mean, what the gently caress.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Mar 31, 2020

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:14

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Archonex posted:

Kay. Guess i'll just wait to die when some doctor decides that treating me for the coronavirus/the next big medical crisis/whatever is against their religious beliefs once that SCOTUS ruling comes through. Or I end up on the streets when one of my employers realizes it's now legal to fire someone because they're trans. Or any of the other awful poo poo the Republicans are using the executive to push.

Yeah, under Biden only the poors will have to go without healthcare or homes because of the glorious hand of the Free Market. Why don't those ungrateful fuckers realize that it's their duty to vote for the guy who will leave them to die so that Number can go up?

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:18

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

It's going to be great when immigrants rights groups and Latinx groups protest Biden during the campaign and the folks pretending here to be really concerned about Trump tell them to shut up.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:20

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Cerebral Bore posted:

Yeah, under Biden only the poors will have to go without healthcare or homes because of the glorious hand of the Free Market. Why don't those ungrateful fuckers realize that it's their duty to vote for the guy who will leave them to die so that Number can go up?

As opposed to Trump. Who will certainly give a poo poo about the poor this time around?

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:20

Unoriginal Name: Aug 1, 2006; by sebmojo

Archonex posted:

And part of that is that he won't actively be appointing people that the Republicans want to use to commit genocide!

Will he be perfect? Will he gently caress up! OF COURSE. That is the point of why the centrists are running him! They'd rather lose to Trump by running this senile jackass than let Bernie win! But that doesn't ignore the fact that it'll lock a lot of really, really, really, murderous people (Who are currently using their access to the executive office to try and get people like me killed) out of power for another four years. And at the very least will force the Republicans to jump through more hurdles to prosecute their altogether nightmarish agenda. Which is an unmitigated good thing, even if it's not the best thing that could happen.

Hey, so I already did. At least twice, in fact. But it's pretty clear the folks posting in this thread don't give a poo poo and are set on the path of purity politics over actually stopping the Republicans from getting more people killed. Hell, there's a post several ones above the one I just quoted pretending that voting for Biden will help the Republicans push their anti LGBT agenda further. Which blatantly ignores the fact that the Republicans are using access to the executive to stack the courts and make it increasingly dangerous for minorities like me to continue living in this country.

So given that all i'll do is risk a mod getting super butt hurt over a trans person calling some people out for their hypocrisy and tell you to go suck a fat one if the idea of keeping people like me from getting killed isn't "worth" at least gritting your teeth, voting for the less evil senile jackass, and prepping for the next round to sideline or overthrow the establishment of the Democratic party so that poo poo like this can't happen again. I'm not happy about things, but protest voting in this country means jack poo poo when the establishment is actively running a candidate meant to lose. And it's worth even less when the other side is actively trying to legislatively and literally genocide it's own inhabitants out of existence.

The awfulness wont go away because Biden wins. The Republicans dont magically vanish because the President has a (D) by his name. Biden has clearly demonstrated he will bow to their insane bullshit the first bit of pressure he gets.

You, yourself, said he was "the guy who can't give a rats rear end about fixing the evils of the Republican party". Why would you work to put him in power

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:20

BRAKE FOR MOOSE: Jun 6, 2001

Archonex posted:

Kay. Guess i'll just wait to die when some doctor decides that treating me for the coronavirus/the next big medical crisis/whatever is against their religious beliefs once that SCOTUS ruling comes through. Or I end up on the streets when one of my employers realizes it's now legal to fire someone because they're trans. Or any of the other awful poo poo the Republicans are using the executive to push.

When do you expect that ruling to come through, exactly? The orientation of the court will not change until Thomas or Alito dies.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:21

RottenK: Feb 17, 2011; Sexy bad choices

FAILED NOJOE

Archonex posted:

Kay. Guess i'll just wait to die when some doctor decides that treating me for the coronavirus/the next big medical crisis/whatever is against their religious beliefs once that SCOTUS ruling comes through. Or I end up on the streets when one of my employers realizes it's now legal to fire someone because they're trans. Or any of the other awful poo poo the Republicans are using the executive to push.

This is a loving stupid question meant to be used as a gotcha. Of course it does. They're both rapist scumbags. But if Biden wins then that's our choice of options. Not voting to stop Trump will literally put people like me in an even more vulnerable position. Do you not understand this? Or is it that you just don't believe it. Or that it will matter? Or do you not care? I'm genuinely asking. This isn't one of the poo poo posts or whatboutisms that got posted up above to ignore what I was trying to say. Do I need to post evidence of how much worse a second Trump term is going to be for a lot of people? Or does that not even matter? I mean, what the gently caress.

A lot of us genuinely do not believe that Biden will be any better than Trump or be at all effective at stopping anything that the right wants to do. He doesn't just not care, he, as you yourself seem to agree, is a right wing piece of poo poo rapist. His presidency will be just Trump but with more platitudes and less media attention to the horrors he will be rubber stamping, and the democrats will cheer and clap and call you a russian agent if you try to ask why Obama's friend and noted progressive Joe Biden is trying to kill you.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:23

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Archonex posted:

As opposed to Trump. Who will certainly give a poo poo about the poor this time around?

He won't, no, but that's not the point. The point is the incredible irony of trying to scold people who are basically in the same boat as you to support a garbage candidate who's happy to let them die and that you think this is somehow going to work.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:28

joepinetree: Apr 5, 2012

Trump as an individual might be better than Biden. But I am pretty sure that the second a democrat is back in the white house, all the liberals will stop pretending to care about immigrants, minorities, poor people, foreign interventions, etc.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:31

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:

When do you expect that ruling to come through, exactly? The orientation of the court will not change until Thomas or Alito dies.

Last I checked the first of the trans related civil rights rulings should be made known sometime in 2020, if it hasn't already. I forgot the exact date. I can dig up the precise date if someone's really particular about it.

There's been some really hefty legal battles going on that the media has barely (if at all) reported in regarding LGBT and especially trans rights over the past year. We're talking stuff like the first forays into making it effectively legal to fire someone for being trans (Since that's the new evangelical boogieman now that marriage equality is off the table.), making it legal to say that a trans person doesn't deserve medical treatment in emergency or general healthcare situations (Which is straight up just an attempt to commit genocide by proxy.), etc, etc. This is in addition to the prep work to push even more extreme attempts to the SCOTUS should Trump win again.

And yes, it does matter who wins. If Trump gets in again and Ginsburg dies in the next four years all those cases and more will absolutely go the way the Republicans want it. Biden is a garbage person but there's at least decent odds that whoever the establishment appoints to replace her will be told not to just bow down and take it. Especially if Ginsburg herself has a say in who replaces her. Whereas if it's another Republican gets her position they will happily flip the bird at everyone and roll either general LGBT or at least trans rights back to how it was during the Mccarthy era. Or worse.

Meanwhile, protest voting while all this poo poo goes down behind the scenes essentially hands a vote over to the people that want to persecute us. It's a garbage situation. But the lives of people like me are literally at risk. I understand why people feel the way they do. But there's actually some really high stake confrontations about to take place in the near future. And which party holds the executive office may very well be the determining factor in how those confrontations go.

Archonex fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 31, 2020

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:35

Unoriginal Name: Aug 1, 2006; by sebmojo

Maybe Biden will nominate Merrick Garland!

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:37

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Unoriginal Name posted:

Maybe Biden will nominate Merrick Garland!

Can't wait for the centrists to start shrieking it's his turn while everyone points out they could do better. :argh:

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:38

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

The SCOTUS argument is complete bullshit because a GOP Senate would just refuse to confirm any Biden nominees anyway. So instead of a 5-4 decision you get a 5-3 decision. Big whoop.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:40

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

Archonex posted:

This is a loving stupid question meant to be used as a gotcha. Of course it does. They're both rapist scumbags. But if Biden wins then that's our choice of options. Not voting to stop Trump will literally put people like me in an even more vulnerable position. Do you not understand this? Or is it that you just don't believe it. Or that it will matter? Or do you not care? I'm genuinely asking. This isn't one of the poo poo posts or whatboutisms that got posted up above to ignore what I was trying to say. Do I need to post evidence of how much worse a second Trump term is going to be for a lot of people? Or does that not even matter? I mean, what the gently caress.

OK so I should not vote for a rapist to be president. Sounds good.

Then I will vote for another candidate who hasn't done any rapes.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:42

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Cerebral Bore posted:

The SCOTUS argument is complete bullshit because a GOP Senate would just refuse to confirm any Biden nominees anyway. So instead of a 5-4 decision you get a 5-3 decision. Big whoop.

Which would be grounds to hold the legitimacy of the SCOTUS's decision in question during a future push to rescind whatever decisions a Republican owned SCOTUS would do.

And it's not an "argument". It's literally laying out the realities of the situation. Having seen the way people responded in this thread I don't think it'll get through to them. But goddamnit, this next election actually matters even though Biden is a trashy piece of crap.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:43

Feldegast42: Oct 29, 2011; COMMENCE THE RITE OF SHITPOSTING

Cerebral Bore posted:

The SCOTUS argument is complete bullshit because a GOP Senate would just refuse to confirm any Biden nominees anyway. So instead of a 5-4 decision you get a 5-3 decision. Big whoop.

Its this, none of the conservative justices are going to die in the next four years and there was little chance in hell that democrats were going to take the senate even they they did have a candidate who wasn't a senile old rapist. Abortion and LGBT rights were doomed the moment Obama declined to fight McConnell over Scalia's seat.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:44

Mellow Seas: Oct 9, 2012; Can't post for 10 years!

Cerebral Bore posted:

The SCOTUS argument is complete bullshit because a GOP Senate would just refuse to confirm any Biden nominees anyway. So instead of a 5-4 decision you get a 5-3 decision. Big whoop.

At the time somebody would be hypothetically voting for Biden, they would not really know that GOP will control the Senate (although it will be likely they will). Also, there could be negative consequences for the GOP going forward to pulling that stunt again, with unpredictable results (maybe it's the difference between Competent Fascist winning and losing!) As opposed to if Trump is in office, in which case, well, the strengthening of their majority is rubber stamped.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:45

How are u: May 19, 2005; by Azathoth

Archonex posted:

This is a loving stupid question meant to be used as a gotcha. Of course it does. They're both rapist scumbags. But if Biden wins then that's our choice of options. Not voting to stop Trump will literally put people like me in an even more vulnerable position. Do you not understand this? Or is it that you just don't believe it. Or that it will matter? Or do you not care? I'm genuinely asking. This isn't one of the poo poo posts or whatboutisms that got posted up above to ignore what I was trying to say. Do I need to post evidence of how much worse a second Trump term is going to be for a lot of people? Or does that not even matter? I mean, what the gently caress.

They genuinely do not care. You are an acceptable loss in their eyes. Gotta crack a few eggs to achieve True Socialism, so be it.

e: They love to chant "Socialism or Barbarism" but if they can't have Socialism they're determined to have Barbarism instead of some lovely centrism.

How are u fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Mar 31, 2020

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:46

Feldegast42: Oct 29, 2011; COMMENCE THE RITE OF SHITPOSTING

Archonex posted:

Which would be grounds to hold the legitimacy of the SCOTUS's decision in question during a future push to rescind whatever decisions a Republican owned SCOTUS would do.

And it's not an "argument". It's literally laying out the realities of the situation. Having seen the way people responded in this thread I don't think it'll get through to them. But goddamnit, this next election actually matters even though Biden is a trashy piece of crap.

Biden wouldn't dare hold the legitimacy of SCOTUS in question over any ruling (because liberals love genocide and persecution as long as the proper forms are filled out)

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:47

PenguinKnight: Apr 6, 2009

Cerebral Bore posted:

The SCOTUS argument is complete bullshit because a GOP Senate would just refuse to confirm any Biden nominees anyway. So instead of a 5-4 decision you get a 5-3 decision. Big whoop.

yeah we�re pretty much at the point where if we ever want to retake scotus we need the senate and to pack the court, no matter who the dems run

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:48

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Archonex posted:

Kay. Guess i'll just wait to die when some doctor decides that treating me for the coronavirus/the next big medical crisis/whatever is against their religious beliefs once that SCOTUS ruling comes through. Or I end up on the streets when one of my employers realizes it's now legal to fire someone because they're trans. Or any of the other awful poo poo the Republicans are using the executive to push.

Do you believe your right to medical care and employment will be protected by a Biden administration?

You're just screeching and throwing a tantrum at this point. I'm sorry that conservatives hate us and the Democratic Party is happy to profit from our suffering. I don't know how you mentally go from that to yelling at people for not voting for Joe Biden.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:48

Archonex: May 2, 2012; MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Feldegast42 posted:

Biden wouldn't dare hold the legitimacy of SCOTUS in question over any ruling (because liberals love genocide and persecution as long as the proper forms are filled out)

Biden wouldn't. But a future SCOTUS past his administration could.

If we can't win the immediate fight we can at least set up the groundwork to make sure that the wrongs put into place today aren't legally enshrined as permanent fixtures from the position of one of the branches. The Republicans blocking a new SCOTUS nominee under a Democrat president while bad rulings were passed would definitely be the sort of thing that would get considered in a future case under a better SCOTUS.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:50

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Archonex posted:

Which would be grounds to hold the legitimacy of the SCOTUS's decision in question during a future push to rescind whatever decisions a Republican owned SCOTUS would do.

And it's not an "argument". It's literally laying out the realities of the situation. Having seen the way people responded in this thread I don't think it'll get through to them. But goddamnit, this next election actually matters even though Biden is a trashy piece of crap.

Just lmao forever if you think the Dem establishment has either the will or the guts to actually challenge the legitimacy of the system.

Also, once again, the realities of the situation is that Joe Biden cannot stop the march of fascism in any way or even delay it meaningfully.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:50

Mellow Seas: Oct 9, 2012; Can't post for 10 years!

PenguinKnight posted:

yeah we�re pretty much at the point where if we ever want to retake scotus we need the senate and to pack the court, no matter who the dems run

If I had to bet on how a Biden Supreme Court nom would go, I'd say after two or three months of the Republicans stonewalling a Garland-type nominee, Biden will just nominate a bog-standard right wing Federalist Society ghoul, except he'll be gay or something. I hope I'm wrong but that's probably where the smart money is.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:51

RBA Starblade: Apr 28, 2008; Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

How are u posted:

They genuinely do not care. You are an acceptable loss in their eyes. Gotta crack a few eggs to achieve True Socialism, so be it.

And if somehow that inexplicably doesn't get achieved as a result, it would have been just as bad anyway.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:51

Unoriginal Name: Aug 1, 2006; by sebmojo

Archonex posted:

Which would be grounds to hold the legitimacy of the SCOTUS's decision in question during a future push to rescind whatever decisions a Republican owned SCOTUS would do.

And it's not an "argument". It's literally laying out the realities of the situation. Having seen the way people responded in this thread I don't think it'll get through to them. But goddamnit, this next election actually matters even though Biden is a trashy piece of crap.

Every election matters, so stop voting for pieces of crap

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:54

Jewel Repetition: Dec 24, 2012; Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

Not voting for Joe Biden feels better and better every day. By November 3rd I'll be in a constant state of ecstasy that no drug or human experience could match, light pouring out of my eyes to illuminate my write-in of D&D's own Joementum.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:55

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

It's honestly incredible that the only arguments the dem fanboys can muster are reheated 2016 bullshit that failed back then and will fail even harder now. I guess they just have double down extra hard to still pretend that they're the good guys when literally reduced to arguing that their rapist fossil that will kill us all is slightly less bad than the other side's rapist fossil that will kill us all.

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:58

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 3, 2024 16:33

VitalSigns: Sep 3, 2011

I really don't understand the attitude of "rape is disqualifying for the presidency" and "I must help a rapist obtain the presidency"

Only one of those two propositions can be true. Either I should not help a rapist become president, or I don't believe committing rape is disqualifying.

It can't be both!

# ? Mar 31, 2020 20:59

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Protest Voting and Electoralism: Burn the Witch!

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