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Terrible Opinions posted:This wasn't misrepresented. Like the episode directly shows Joe using his mother as a shield. yeah she said "I just signed the papers he put in front of me" them trying to take her house was her impression of the situation, which I'm sure Joe encouraged I definitely have zero fuckin sympathy for Joe and he deserves to be in prison for the way he treated his animals
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Mar 31, 2020 17:39
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The main thing is that BCR doesn't treat their cats in an equivalent way to joe exotic in any way. The biggest being they do not, under any circumstances, breed them. As I said i cluldn't give a gently caress about Carol, most higher ups in big nonprofits are just as scummy as in the for-profit sector, but there is no equivalence to be drawn there. Netflix misrepresented the size of the enclosures, and the size of the crowds for sure, and they are an accredited sanctuary. Like they legit do good and important work for big cats including working to shut down cub petting and advocating against breeding white tigers and poo poo. And now people are apparently showing up to harrass their volunteers, and they're definitely flooding comments of vids of their rehab bobcats (which are kept in smaller pens while recovering from injuries to just post 'cats in cages' and 'why don't you let them go' (it's... it's a rehab cat, it's GONNA be let go?). BCR also claims their meat grinder is a hand meat grinder that can only handle one-inch cubes. Which obviously isn't verfiable by me but if so it's loving hilarious that Netflix showed a big old industrial meatgrinder. Since they misrepresented the enclosure size, it doesn't seem crazy that BCR is telling the trust about their meat grinder. Again, reality show level misrepresentation. mycatscrimes has a new favorite as of 17:50 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 17:44
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I was all in on Carol being a good, if spacey, person. Then it came up she was with PETA and my bias-ometer went right back to neutral. Time for Ep2!
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Mar 31, 2020 17:53
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Know that the lady who was Don's assistant that they interview from the show was caught embezzling 600,000$ from BCR
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Mar 31, 2020 17:57
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Also the cage at the big cat place that Joe Exotic shows is a small side box to put food and water in on a way bigger cage so people feeding them don't get bit. You see one in use during one of the Carol parts. Zoos, like real ones, not these sketchy private ones in the show, use those as well. It is not surprising to me that Joe Exotic doesn't know what a safety measure is considering his method of feeding is an open chute just big enough for a tiger to put its arm through. Private zoos should be fully outlawed everywhere and even a lot of public city zoos should be closed. No one in the show is making the case for private exotic animal ownership, especially the people that are saying that it's a good thing.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:05
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I'm sure the volunteers really do care about the animals, that is the whole premise of the scamghosthorse posted:Private zoos should be fully outlawed everywhere and even a lot of public city zoos should be closed. No one in the show is making the case for private exotic animal ownership, especially the people that are saying that it's a good thing.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:06
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capitaldelendaest posted:BCR also claims their meat grinder is a hand meat grinder that can only handle one-inch cubes. Which obviously isn't verfiable by me but if so it's loving hilarious that Netflix showed a big old industrial meatgrinder. Since they misrepresented the enclosure size, it doesn't seem crazy that BCR is telling the trust about their meat grinder. Again, reality show level misrepresentation.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:08
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I'm trying to find sources posted that aren't correspondence with people I know from that world, though the BCR site is a good start. However, the Netflix doc is bullshit like a lot of them are; it's an entertainment product and they can and do lie. Hell, one of the most famous docs of the last 20 years--Supersize Me--was literally fake.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:09
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I agree. Those animals that cannot be returned to the wild should be cared for by the govt. Nonprofits universally exploit volunteers and must be cracked down on. The nonprofit industry is another capitalist scam. But in the world as it currently is, there is no equivalence between the way BCR treats their animals and what they do and Joe Exotic.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:10
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Terrible Opinions posted:That was Joe's meat grinder. Hence him being there in the scene. Weren't they using it to imply Carol could have ground up her husband and fed him to the tigers? It seemed clear it was being implied that BCR had the capability to do that using the meat grinder shown on screen as a visual.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:11
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But among other things, you can just look at Google image search for people who have visited the place over the years and see what the enclosures are like there. There's really no question that Netflix lied or deeply misrepresented in at least a few key respects.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:11
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capitaldelendaest posted:Weren't they using it to imply Carol could have ground up her husband and fed him to the tigers? It seemed clear it was being implied that BCR had the capability to do that using the meat grinder shown on screen as a visual. Pick posted:But among other things, you can just look at Google image search for people who have visited the place over the years and see what the enclosures are like there. There's really no question that Netflix lied or deeply misrepresented in at least a few key respects. Like the Netflix show's biggest crime against BCR is that it expected it's viewers to actually watch and not take Joe's bullshit at face value due to how obviously craze he is, and then they let the primary representative of BCR be their obviously lovely boss woman.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:50
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Terrible Opinions posted:They did it when Joe was giving his explanation and then cut to her saying that their meat grinder was hand sized. I'd say that's pretty clear cinematic language to get you into joe's headspace before revealing it was bullshit. "Carole's a cis het white woman who saw an underprivileged gay man doing exactly what she does and saw profit if she could get rid of him, hth" "Carole's big cat enclosures are as bad as Joe's" ^^ I mean ppl itt who supposedly did watch it seem to have taken away the message that joe exotic and BCR are equivalent They are all over BCR's socials as well. I take your point, though, just sucks for the people who actually work and BCR and the good work they do for big cats that viewers are apparently eager to take this narrative away from 'tiger king' mycatscrimes has a new favorite as of 19:01 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 18:58
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I think that's just a danger inherent in centering documentaries around individuals who present themselves as larger than life rather than the actual holistic organization. Cause BCR is run by someone who is just a very unpleasant person who is scummy in a very similar way to Jeff Lowe, the other main person antagonistic to Joe in the series. Even if her organization is self evidently better for the cats. Though as people evidently have actual contact with BCR peeps. Do they actually not pay their workers? I wanna make sure that wasn't something taken out of context in the documentary. Cause all of the organizations present in Tiger King appeared use cult tactics to either get work for no compensation or basically slave wages. Even if none of the rest of them are as bad as Antle.
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Mar 31, 2020 19:19
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Terrible Opinions posted:Though as people evidently have actual contact with BCR peeps. Do they actually not pay their workers? I wanna make sure that wasn't something taken out of context in the documentary. Cause all of the organizations present in Tiger King appeared use cult tactics to either get work for no compensation or basically slave wages. Even if none of the rest of them are as bad as Antle. I don't have details on the structure, but they have both staff and volunteers. My friend who volunteers usually puts in hours on a few Saturdays per month. I'm not gonna say nonprofits are incapable of taking advantage of volunteers, I'm sure that can/does happen, but she does it for enjoyment because she likes being around the animals.
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Mar 31, 2020 19:48
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Okay it was just glossed over real quick with someone saying they weren't paid and someone else saying they spend every holiday there in the same episode. Which raises my exploiting workers flags.
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Mar 31, 2020 19:54
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They did show Carole explaining the small feeding portion of the cage that Joe was complaining about, though there was basically a cut to it every time it transitioned to a scene at BCS Carole, doc, and Joe are all sociopaths who use people's love for animals to exploit them and make a living, Joe was also just a meth head idiot from bumfuck Oklahoma
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Mar 31, 2020 19:56
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Terrible Opinions posted:Okay it was just glossed over real quick with someone saying they weren't paid and someone else saying they spend every holiday there in the same episode. Which raises my exploiting workers flags. i have bad news for you about every nonprofit organization in america it's a scummy industry built on exploiting people from the ground up and in a just world we'd break up every single one and make them publically owned BCR is still not comparable to Joe Exotic or other 'roadside zoo' style animal hells
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Mar 31, 2020 20:01
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yeah I'm pretty sure the editorial narrative of using the least flattering footage and quotes because the people who spent five years researching animal abuses was thinking "gently caress all these people forever".
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Mar 31, 2020 20:05
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capitaldelendaest posted:i have bad news for you about every nonprofit organization in america
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Mar 31, 2020 20:06
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the main problem with outfits like joes is not that they are run by unpleasant people it is that they contribute to illegal animal trade, breed captive tiger cubs and raise them in abusive conditions, and are basically animal torture farms for profit the non-profit structure employed by BCR is exploitative and like every other institution under capital is corrupt and perpetuates and benefits from an unjust system however they do NOT a) engage with illegal animal traders b) keep their animals in miserable conditions c) breed any of their animals for any reason OR d) perpetuate the idea that it is ok to cuddle tiger cubs or breed white tigers for human amusement i ain't going to go to bat for their employment practices, which i both don't know a lot about and don't really think will be worth defending please refer to my username for my opinon on explotative labor practice and the systems that perpetuate them the ASPCA and humane societies likely are run by equally unpleasant people and exploit volunteer labor, but that doesn't make them the exact moral equivalent of a puppy mill mycatscrimes has a new favorite as of 20:12 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 20:09
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and I'd say that showing BCR as basically only as lovely as most normal zoos was giving it a fair shake in the documentary. Especially compared to the outright criminal conditions animals were kept in at Joe's park. Viewers being taken in by Joe's charisma ain't exactly their fault.
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Mar 31, 2020 20:24
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i guess i can't really argue with that!
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Mar 31, 2020 20:34
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It's pretty wild to see people's reactions to all of this, because I listened to the Wondery podcast on it (I actually think I recommended it here once) some time ago and I actually thought that Carole came off better in the doc and I'm confused at how much more angry people are at her. Joe came off waaaay worse on the podcast. Tiger King clearly tried to make Joe seem more endearing and harmless to have an engaging "maincharacter" but even then I think that a lot of people are projecting villainous traits on to Carole and Heroic ones on to Joe because they find him to be more charismatic. It might have helped if the doc had shown that Joe is a cancer faking racist who starved housecats to death and most likely lied about his monumental suicide car crash attempt but oh well. It is kind of funny that Netflix has made Joe a celeb after that cringy "Dont gently caress With Cats" mess. Lol and maybe they shouldn't have loving deadnamed and misgendered Saff while exploiting a traumatic moment in his life. Yeesh.
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Apr 1, 2020 08:01
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Sarcopenia posted:It's pretty wild to see people's reactions to all of this, because I listened to the Wondery podcast on it (I actually think I recommended it here once) some time ago and I actually thought that Carole came off better in the doc and I'm confused at how much more angry people are at her. Joe came off waaaay worse on the podcast. I think it is your need to pick a side that you are projecting onto everyone else
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Apr 1, 2020 13:26
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hawowanlawow posted:I think it is your need to pick a side that you are projecting onto everyone else No, I see a lot of people doing this on Twitter and elsewhere. It’s a stupid trend but a visible one.
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Apr 1, 2020 13:51
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hawowanlawow posted:I think it is your need to pick a side that you are projecting onto everyone else People absolutely pick sides all the time.
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Apr 1, 2020 14:32
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Joe Exotic is a piece of poo poo. Straight up. He might not be completely guilty for the murder for hire thing but the animal abuse he is definitely guilty of. He does not care about animals. He bred and sold tigers. When he bred too many, he shot and killed healthy older tigers to make room for the small ones that could be petted. He deserves prison. He ruined multiple people's lives, and it's a travesty that Netflix showed him in any sort of positive or charismatic light. He is neither of those things. He was an egomaniacal narcissist strung out on coke and meth, being paranoid about Baskin and PETA because he was doing shady poo poo. I say this from first hand experience: Joe is a void of a human being.
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Apr 1, 2020 14:39
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VanSandman posted:People absolutely pick sides all the time. AlbieQuirky posted:No, I see a lot of people doing this on Twitter and elsewhere. It’s a stupid trend but a visible one. yeah I thought they were talking about this thread but I see now they meant the internet in general I never made a Twitter account and I never will lol
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Apr 1, 2020 15:27
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So I just watched episode 3 and—uh, what business was the missing dude in, exactly? Because he’s supposed to be a multimillionaire, but nobody knows how many millions, he had a habit of hiding money, had an office in a trailer, a collection of exotic animals, took frequent trips to Costa Rica, flew planes literally under the radar with no license or flight plan—the only money-making activity they clearly identify was him sometimes exporting secondhand cars to Costa Rica? And his lawyer won’t say much but seems convinced that he was pushed out of an airplane over the Gulf of Mexico. So he was running drugs, right?
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Apr 1, 2020 15:55
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Pirate Radar posted:So I just watched episode 3 and—uh, what business was the missing dude in, exactly? Because he’s supposed to be a multimillionaire, but nobody knows how many millions, he had a habit of hiding money, had an office in a trailer, a collection of exotic animals, took frequent trips to Costa Rica, flew planes literally under the radar with no license or flight plan—the only money-making activity they clearly identify was him sometimes exporting secondhand cars to Costa Rica? And his lawyer won’t say much but seems convinced that he was pushed out of an airplane over the Gulf of Mexico. The big cat website goes over it. Among other things, apparently she did most of the work. It was real estate.
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Apr 1, 2020 16:00
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In the show they do talk about "some of his properties"
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Apr 1, 2020 16:03
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Better be a good loving house if I’m going to drop a man out of a speeding airplane from fifty feet over the ocean and watch him skip like a stone, pssh, pssh, pssh, over and over tumbling before his mangled corpse finally slows down enough to sink. That’s not me doubting anyone, I just mean they must build them different in south Florida.
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Apr 1, 2020 16:19
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My vibe from the show is that Joe is a complete egotistical idiot who get high on his own hype and could be easily manipulated by others that would pump his ego (which is how he lost his zoo and possibly got into the whole idea of murder for hire idea and trying to make it a reality). He got played hard, but that doesn't make it that he wasn't a villain himself. I know people picked sides and such but there were so many egos involved in the whole thing that it really came down to "who was the less lovely" for me, which was why I rooted for Carol's current husband (and weirdly enough the idiot libertarian campaign manager but that was more to do with him trying to wrap his idiot libertarian beliefs around the idea that someone like Joe even exists).
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Apr 1, 2020 17:08
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I just can't believe there wasn't a single normal person in the entire show. Not a single one. Closest would be Saff, but dude decided to chop his arm off so he could get back to work to try and save Joe's business. That's some hosed up thinking all on it's own.
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Apr 1, 2020 19:25
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Well he definitely couldn't afford two years of reconstructive surgery
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Apr 1, 2020 19:31
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I'm sure Joe's insurance would have cov.....oh.
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Apr 1, 2020 19:36
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Madkal posted:My vibe from the show is that Joe is a complete egotistical idiot who get high on his own hype and could be easily manipulated by others that would pump his ego (which is how he lost his zoo and possibly got into the whole idea of murder for hire idea and trying to make it a reality). He got played hard, but that doesn't make it that he wasn't a villain himself. I read this whole quote before realizing it wasn't about Joe Rogan. I also owned a Joe Exotic for Pres bumper sticker.
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Apr 1, 2020 20:09
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Also Joe definitely burned down his own gator pit.
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Apr 1, 2020 20:21
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Untrustable posted:Joe Exotic is a piece of poo poo. Straight up. He might not be completely guilty for the murder for hire thing but the animal abuse he is definitely guilty of. He does not care about animals. He bred and sold tigers. When he bred too many, he shot and killed healthy older tigers to make room for the small ones that could be petted. He deserves prison. He ruined multiple people's lives, and it's a travesty that Netflix showed him in any sort of positive or charismatic light. He is neither of those things. He was an egomaniacal narcissist strung out on coke and meth, being paranoid about Baskin and PETA because he was doing shady poo poo. I say this from first hand experience: Joe is a void of a human being. Agreed. I don't think you can help his appearance as charismatic. He has survived by relying on it and he is well aware of how to manipulate people. I don't think the doc showed him in a positive light. They showed every messed up thing he did. They showed how much he contradicted himself. But giving a narcissist a platform is almost a problem. All those people seriously deserve prison.
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Apr 1, 2020 20:45
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