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I didn't like the first episode and hated the second, but the third has kinda won me over. It's the first time I feel like an overall narrative is coming together. The first two episodes felt more like random poo poo thrown at the wall. In certain ways the world of WW is scarier than other periods of social stratification. Caste systems or the guilded age were objectively bad, unjust and inefficient. Social position was assigned not by ability or potential but mostly by luck and it made things worse for everyone. It's easy to argue against that. The system in WW seems to stratify society based on human potential, which is much harder to argue against. We do want a free society where everyone can become whatever they want to be, but we also want the surgeons operating on us or the judges assigned to our court cases to be the best of the best. There is an inherent contradiction in that. It's an interesting topic to explore and I have total faith in this dumb tits & robots show to explore that topic with the appropriate nuance. Especially after season 2. 
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Mar 31, 2020 18:50
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Only the AI has decided out it's easier to force the real world to fit the simulation than the other way around. That'd actually be an interesting plot point. They did mention how the park never managed to make copies of people that worked in the real world.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:52
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Do we know how Diplodicus was able to get access to the transcripts that I assume came from the sphere? If she's been able to hack into it and steal information from it, it seems like she'd be able to get all the information she needs that way.
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Mar 31, 2020 18:59
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Wafflecopper posted:lol season 1 is the good season, you just wait Yeah, but it's still corny as hell. The melodrama played out by amazing actors is half the appeal of Westworld.
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Mar 31, 2020 19:01
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Cojawfee posted:Do we know how Diplodicus was able to get access to the transcripts that I assume came from the sphere? If she's been able to hack into it and steal information from it, it seems like she'd be able to get all the information she needs that way. She did ask Tommy Flanagan to look into him, and his boss is the one with surface level access to the sphere.
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Mar 31, 2020 19:05
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I'm really digging this season so far. I don't have a lot to say other than I'm excited to see who's inside Hale's body and I hope Dolores and Jesse kick some cyberpunk rear end. I have noticed that the first batch of posts after an episode airs tend to be super critical, and then the mellow viewers who are enjoying the show filter in slowly over the rest of the week. Kind of funny.
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Mar 31, 2020 21:27
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GABA ghoul posted:I didn't like the first episode and hated the second, but the third has kinda won me over. It's the first time I feel like an overall narrative is coming together. The first two episodes felt more like random poo poo thrown at the wall. The people who want to be "useful" to society would still be able to pursue those tasks (job might not be an appropriate word), it'd just not be expected that everyone would have to do so. GABA ghoul posted:It's an interesting topic to explore and I have total faith in this dumb tits & robots show to explore that topic with the appropriate nuance. Especially after season 2. How are u posted:I have noticed that the first batch of posts after an episode airs tend to be super critical, and then the mellow viewers who are enjoying the show filter in slowly over the rest of the week. Kind of funny. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 21:28
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esperterra posted:Yeah, but it's still corny as hell. Oh yeah I didn’t mean to imply it isn’t. I meant good relative to S2 and S3
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Mar 31, 2020 21:39
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When most people say "good tv" they mean entertaining and that is absolutely what westworld season 1 is. Season 2 has some major pacing issues that prevent it from really being good.
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Mar 31, 2020 21:42
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Season 2 is still entertaining, moreso when binged. Aaron Paul is really making this season for me, though: I care less and less about scenes that don't have him...
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Mar 31, 2020 22:54
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How are u posted:I have noticed that the first batch of posts after an episode airs tend to be super critical, and then the mellow viewers who are enjoying the show filter in slowly over the rest of the week. Kind of funny. I think people were only super critical of the second episode because it sucked.
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Apr 1, 2020 00:00
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Loving The Culture references. Special Circumstances indeed.
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Apr 1, 2020 00:15
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How are u posted:I have noticed that the first batch of posts after an episode airs tend to be super critical, and then the mellow viewers who are enjoying the show filter in slowly over the rest of the week. Kind of funny. It's because the Chad HBO-havers expect a certain level of quality from their monthly subscription while the Virgin torrenters will happily lap up whatever slop HBO dishes out because it's free. In all seriousness though I complain about the show a lot but I do find it pretty entertaining. It's just got some glaring flaws (the writing) that stand in pretty stark contrast with the other top-notch elements of the show (production design, acting, music, etc.) True Blood was brought up earlier and I think that's a good comparison, because practically everything on that show was a little goofy, so you don't feel the need to focus on the one wrong note. Going back to the "brain ball mystery" for a second, I think what's irritating and manipulative about it is that it's a mystery where the characters know the answer but we don't. A character trying to solve a puzzle is fun because either we're just as in the dark as they are and get to watch it unfold with them, or because we know something they don't and get to see how they work it out. Characters who know the whole story but talk around it ("you know who you are") for no diegetic reason don't really bring the same thrills.
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Apr 1, 2020 00:40
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Also determinism is bunk, iterative prediction would safeguard against it. Anybody trying to build a predictive system that didn't safeguard against determinism, would fail very quickly. It is, like, phrenology level quackery. Collateral fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 00:57
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Collateral posted:Also determinism is bunk, iterative prediction would safeguard against it. whatever nerd, pretty blonde said robots know the future
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Apr 1, 2020 01:44
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lmfao the dialogue in this show is so loving bad
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Apr 1, 2020 02:55
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Hace posted:lmfao the dialogue in this show is so loving bad Yeah its so robotic
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Apr 1, 2020 03:14
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hobbesmaster posted:Yeah its so robotic lmao
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Apr 1, 2020 03:21
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lol
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Apr 1, 2020 03:32
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I am laughing
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Apr 1, 2020 03:34
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There should be a voting for who hale bot is. I would vote clementine because the character has that vibe so far. It could be Teddy and that would be my wish. It will probably be some dumb 5th option though.
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Apr 1, 2020 05:49
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Collateral posted:Also determinism is bunk, iterative prediction would safeguard against it. DropsySufferer posted:There should be a voting for who hale bot is. I would vote clementine because the character has that vibe so far.
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Apr 1, 2020 06:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:This is only really a problem under a system where your job is what you are. Even in the real world a lot of people could work a lot less than they do and find their identity elsewhere, with the tech shown in WW it'd be possible for people to explore all sorts of avenues that our socio-economic system has decided are a waste of time. Except as in the real world, a bunch of parasites sits on top of the heap and makes everyone work for them. I'm sure there are ways to explore all kinds of avenues in the WW on some form of basic income. Caleb doesn't want that though because he wants preferred medical treatment for his mother. He wants something more. I think most people in society strife for above average societal recognition, prestige or material wealth. And it's obviously mathematically impossible for everyone to have that, so you get to have some kind of mechanism of how these things are assigned. And no matter what, you also always end up with people who have below average of these things and feel frustrated. quote:What does "appropriate nuance" mean? The show going with "meritocracy is a sham (designed to make the people on top feel good about themselves)" is an entirely fair assessment, hell, the very name meritocracy was thought up by a dude mocking the concept. Meritocracy has always been a poo poo idea meant to justify why the people on top are on top, the show is just taking the idea to its natural conclusion - though the only real difference between WW and the real world is that they have a big AI doing poo poo deliberately while the oppression within our system happens more organically. A SAT score is a good predictor of a university education outcome, much better than general intelligence. Is it oppressive to use it to assign limited university places according to it?
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Apr 1, 2020 06:54
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GABA ghoul posted:I'm sure there are ways to explore all kinds of avenues in the WW on some form of basic income. Caleb doesn't want that though because he wants preferred medical treatment for his mother. He wants something more. GABA ghoul posted:I think most people in society strife for above average societal recognition, prestige or material wealth. And it's obviously mathematically impossible for everyone to have that, so you get to have some kind of mechanism of how these things are assigned. And no matter what, you also always end up with people who have below average of these things and feel frustrated. GABA ghoul posted:A SAT score is a good predictor of a university education outcome, much better than general intelligence. Is it oppressive to use it to assign limited university places according to it?
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Apr 1, 2020 08:45
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Serac: noun noun: serac; plural noun: seracs a pinnacle or ridge of ice on the surface of a glacier He's an A.I. for sure.
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Apr 1, 2020 13:32
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Has this been talked about? Can Charlotte bot be Maeve? That image in the hotel room where dolores is cradling Charlotte reminded me of Maeve cradling her kid in the maze
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Apr 1, 2020 13:44
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I like this because it fits with the "they're inside the simulation." Surak is just the personification of the system, ala Logan at the end of S2 inside the Forge. That would also be why no one can find the richest man in the world: he isn't a man with a physical body, but a god-like AI with the power to predict what all of the humans are doing. Well so far he hasn't seemed to be that benelovent.
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Apr 1, 2020 13:55
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In the beginning of the episode dheloughres is all shots up and near death and Jesse pink man is helping her. In like the next scene she’s fine and telling maybe-maeve maybe-Angela what she has to do. Are we thinking those are two separate times/timelines/future/past whatever, or did they just jump ahead until she’s fine?
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Apr 1, 2020 14:54
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Charlotte-bot is obviously MIB? I came in here surprised to see people even speculating.
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Apr 1, 2020 15:00
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They have magical healing wands.
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Apr 1, 2020 15:04
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stoops posted:Has this been talked about? Can Charlotte bot be Maeve? I think this is very likely. Nothing in the Maeve scenes from episode 2 prove that she isn't in a simulation, especially since Bernard who is established to be in the same reality plane as Delores found Maeve with with her ball missing.
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Apr 1, 2020 15:34
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DropsySufferer posted:There should be a voting for who hale bot is. I would vote clementine because the character has that vibe so far. It's either Delores' dad, or Delores with Wyatt split inside Delores.
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Apr 1, 2020 16:13
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Collateral posted:Also determinism is bunk, iterative prediction would safeguard against it. Assuming of course the world it lives in isn't itself a simulation, let's go full Rick and Morty. e: just saw this relevant article: Researchers find AI is bad at predicting GPA, grit, eviction, job training, layoffs, and material hardship qirex fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Apr 1, 2020 |
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Apr 1, 2020 16:36
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My dumb theory is that Serac is Rohoboam
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Apr 1, 2020 17:01
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Captain Splendid posted:My dumb theory is that Serac is Rohoboam bless u
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Apr 1, 2020 22:28
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GABA ghoul posted:I'm sure there are ways to explore all kinds of avenues in the WW on some form of basic income. Caleb doesn't want that though because he wants preferred medical treatment for his mother. He wants something more. "Preferred medical treatment" already speaks to the kind of dystopian critique WW is making of modern society, though, yes? It's essentially the plot of Elysium, that there's this Morlock underclass with (de facto) no chance for upward mobility, who routinely die from being too poor because the arch-capitalist system in power characterizes "wanting good health outcomes" as a luxury. Any "basic income" that fails to overturn that status quo hasn't really done anything in the pursuit of social equity. Caleb doesn't want "more," he wants to be treated as equivalently human to a rich person. Of course, the concept of wealth or success as a zero-sum-game says a lot about your thinking: that in essence, there's no version of a human society that isn't defined by market capitalism. Someone has to be the winner and someone (likely many more someones) have to be the loser. And I think this season of WW is specifically interested in challenging that, in a Marxist sense. Hence why the conflict is pivoting from Dolores' human vs. robot race war of S2 to a coalition of disenfranchised robots AND humans vs. the systems of control and oppression built by the rich. A Buttery Pastry posted:Given that the SAT score is essentially laundering racial oppression as meritocracy, yeah. Yes. 100%.
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Apr 1, 2020 23:36
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Xealot posted:"Preferred medical treatment" already speaks to the kind of dystopian critique WW is making of modern society, though, yes? It's essentially the plot of Elysium, that there's this Morlock underclass with (de facto) no chance for upward mobility, who routinely die from being too poor because the arch-capitalist system in power characterizes "wanting good health outcomes" as a luxury. Any "basic income" that fails to overturn that status quo hasn't really done anything in the pursuit of social equity. Caleb doesn't want "more," he wants to be treated as equivalently human to a rich person. I think there's also a bit of tapping into the zeitgeist: Caleb doesn't simply want to be treated ~like he is rich~ but instead wants the rich to be treated ~as if they were poor~ which seems like a distinction. I'm sure that will flip as he gains more agency over his own life...
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Apr 2, 2020 02:01
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Loving the idea that Wyatt is DLC that grants hosts +5 leadership and a cannibalism minigame
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Apr 2, 2020 08:18
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Given that the SAT score is essentially laundering racial oppression as meritocracy, yeah. You can't look at these things as distinct occurrences, you have to look at the whole process. Seen in a vacuum the SAT might be fine, but given the massive and persistent racial skew of the scores it's clear that your society ensures that certain parts of it are meant to fail. This failure replicates itself in two ways - by preventing members of oppressed groups from becoming more affluent and thus increasing the chances their offspring do well as well, and by serving as a justification for further oppression, arguing that these people are simply more suited for physical labor than rigorous mental work. Note that getting rid of racial disparities alone wouldn't solve the issue, as class also perpetuates itself under such a system, unless you separate children from their parents. I don't disagree with you here. University education outcomes are correlated with social background, same as SAT score. You basically got to rework the entire system from the ground up to minimize the relation between social background and education. Xealot posted:"Preferred medical treatment" already speaks to the kind of dystopian critique WW is making of modern society, though, yes? It's essentially the plot of Elysium, that there's this Morlock underclass with (de facto) no chance for upward mobility, who routinely die from being too poor because the arch-capitalist system in power characterizes "wanting good health outcomes" as a luxury. Any "basic income" that fails to overturn that status quo hasn't really done anything in the pursuit of social equity. Caleb doesn't want "more," he wants to be treated as equivalently human to a rich person. Capitalism didn't invent resource scarcity. A class of medical graduates is gonna have a normal distribution of competency so not everyone can get treated by the best doctors. A good public healthcare systems tries to distribute the limited resources more randomly(which is much fairer and more transparent than what a free market solution does) but it doesn't make the problem magically go away. Caleb would still be more likely to end up with subpar or average doctors and caretakers than good ones in a totally equal system.
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Apr 2, 2020 09:53
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GABA ghoul posted:Capitalism didn't invent resource scarcity. A class of medical graduates is gonna have a normal distribution of competency so not everyone can get treated by the best doctors. A good public healthcare systems tries to distribute the limited resources more randomly(which is much fairer and more transparent than what a free market solution does) but it doesn't make the problem magically go away. Caleb would still be more likely to end up with subpar or average doctors and caretakers than good ones in a totally equal system.
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Apr 2, 2020 15:42
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