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Lone Goat posted:5 of those mythics are from the commander set and not in Ikoria proper. I didn’t include those thanks
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Apr 3, 2020 06:55
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Lone Goat posted:nice meltdown This + Storm's Herald + Claim the Firstborn to untap it?
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Apr 3, 2020 07:18
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As a connoisseur of big dumb idiots, this is already my favorite set ever made
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Apr 3, 2020 07:23
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I can't believe they're letting green tap down enemy blockers. Smh
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Apr 3, 2020 07:23
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Sampatrick posted:How on earth do you play this set IRL literally very carefully
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Apr 3, 2020 07:32
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Samael posted:This + Storm's Herald + Claim the Firstborn to untap it? or just play kiora
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Apr 3, 2020 07:44
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This is just Hearthstone as a set and I guess that's alright since Corona ruined tabletop for the foreseeable future anyways, but with ability counters, keeping track of cycling and mutate stacking cards on top of each other, it's basically going to be a boardgame in paper. Whoever signed off on that is entirely too optimistic re:the diligence of people in keeping track of poo poo.
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Apr 3, 2020 08:02
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I've never liked the argument that wizards shouldn't do certain new mechanics because players are lazy and won't bother keeping track of things b/c that train of thought would mean no counters, no copies, and no tokens at all people can remember which die on their table represents their four 2/2s and which one represents their three 1/1s without feeling like tokens were a mistake, you know?
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Apr 3, 2020 08:20
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this set is confusing to my dumb sleep deprived brain. gut reaction is that they overdid the complexity.
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Apr 3, 2020 08:27
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I don't know, doesn't seem like too much to keep track of. There is a bit of a voltron vibe to it, but even if it's a mutated stack of cards with some keyword counters, you just look at the card during combat and read stuff from top to bottom. And cycling doesn't need any tracking, it's just a one time effect. I think it's harder to keep track of big board states with a bunch of dorky creatures and a million tokens than it is keeping track of one big monster.
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Apr 3, 2020 08:39
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I had to reread the mutate description a few times to get what it did. Maybe it's poor wording, or just me being dumb.
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Apr 3, 2020 08:43
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is it really that hard to use a dice or a pen & paper or something to keep track of how many cycles you've done? like we can track life totals okay and you probably won't cycle 20 times in a game so
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Apr 3, 2020 08:49
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I think it's one of those mechanics that's hard to parse from text, but if someone just shows you like "you can play these two cards one on top of another and they get all the text" it's pretty easy? i don't know, we'll see
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Apr 3, 2020 08:51
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the "tracking cycling" is referring to a legendary that shuffles itself into your library when you cycle it but after the fourth time you do so it enters the battlefield instead. which, like, isn't hard to track. it was one of the revealed japanese alt art cards that doesn't have an official translation to point at yet thoughRinkles posted:I had to reread the mutate description a few times to get what it did. Maybe it's poor wording, or just me being dumb. I think it's easier to comprehend when you look at how it'll look on paper:  When you mutate a card, you choose to put it either on top or bottom. The card on top retains everything on the card including name, CMC, and power/toughness, and the card on bottom is just "the abilities on this card are added to the abilities on the top card." You can chain these mutations, too; there's no limit to how many additional lines of text you append. In regular play, it's really fairly straightforward and works like how host/augment Just Works.
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Apr 3, 2020 08:53
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Funny because with the cards laid out like that, I’d assume they would take the power and toughness of the bottom card And I actually don’t think counting to four is that trivial, when you’re also keeping track of a full game of magic. Maro himself has warned against overloading the attention of the player. Wonder how he feels about this.
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Apr 3, 2020 08:58
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The only tricky bit is that it has the power/toughness of the thing on top, which is somewhere in the middle of all the text visually, instead of the stuff in the power/toughness box at the very bottom. That's pretty minor though. e: you don't need to start counting to four until that one specific card is cycled, and cycling that card immediately has you do something special (shuffle it into your library) that cues you up to get out your d6 to track how many times you've done it. The random "count how many times you've cycled total this game" thing is way more annoying. Jabor fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 08:58
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now, caveat: because there are a lot of interactions in magic there are gonna be some weird edge cases but a lot of it is "let's wait for the rules update to see how those work" the things we know for sure: - mutate is an alternate casting cost and there's no other way to mutate a thing (as revealed currently) than to cast a card with mutate - once a creature is mutated and is on the board, it's treated as a single creature. if it dies, the stack goes to the graveyard, if it gets exiled the stack goes to exile, if it gets bounced back to hand the stack gets bounced back to hand. things you're going to encounter fairly often: - if someone tries to kill the target of the mutate, it doesn't fizzle like playing an enchantment; instead, the mutate card enters the battlefield as a normal creature (since you're still just Casting A Creature) - if someone flickers a mutated creature, the stack goes to exile but (because they're not being cast) the cards all return separately to the battlefield. this can be used offensively and defensively, of course. - for commander players, remember that going to the command zone is a replacement effect for your commander only, so if yours is one of the cards in the stack only that specific card can return. (the entire stack counts as your commander on the board, though). sorry to anyone excited to sneak non-commanders into your command zone things that you're going to see because people like to break poo poo and who knows how this'll actually work - if you mutate a devotion god to the bottom and it loses devotion (and becomes not a creature), will it "fall off" or will you have a typeless permanent - if you mutate a planeswalker animated with sarkhan to the top do you get both the creature abilities and the loyalty abilities when it stops being a creature? - how about animated lands and artifacts? personally i'm thinking that they're probably going to add a state-based action for when a mutate card stops being a creature just by virtue of things breaking less Jabor posted:The random "count how many times you've cycled total this game" thing is way more annoying.
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Apr 3, 2020 09:04
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flatluigi posted:things that you're going to see because people like to break poo poo and who knows how this'll actually work My guesses: - You'll have a typeless permanent. - Yes. - If you put the creature on top, the creature abilities will override whatever animated it (because the mutation has the newest timestamp). If you put it on the bottom, then it will revert back to being a land with all those creature abilities once the animation effect wears off. My big question: Will copy effects copy the entire stack (with mutations), or just whatever happens to be on top?
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Apr 3, 2020 09:11
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Tainen posted:This is a card in the set CYCLE COUNT IS AT ONE 
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Apr 3, 2020 09:12
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Jabor posted:My big question: Will copy effects copy the entire stack (with mutations), or just whatever happens to be on top? someone asked maro:  so yeah it follows from the rule of thumb "when it's on the board, treat it as a single creature" and you get one hell of a token
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Apr 3, 2020 09:24
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the way i understand mutate easily is that the top creature eats the bottom creature and gains all its abilities but not its power and toughness mutate doesn't convey the idea easily imo, I would have called the mechanic "Digest".
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Apr 3, 2020 11:17
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My only true complaint so far is that mutate mechanics are going to encourage every player to put equipment/enchantments below the enchanted creature like that, instead of having the names cascade out to the top left. Otherwise we'll see how it plays. I'm hesitant about cross-table readability but need to see it in action first.
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Apr 3, 2020 11:18
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maaan every big timmy-bait has monkeycheese creature types, but the one bigass turtle in blue is just a leviathan? foh
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Apr 3, 2020 12:22
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bunch of cards     https://twitter.com/Marshall_LR/status/1245984280695562242 Edit: Shark is a new card type right? they used to be just fish before i think
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Apr 3, 2020 12:37
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showcase version of stirrix edit and another card:  Clash of Titans Instant Target creature fights with another target creature Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 12:40
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flatluigi posted:people can remember which die on their table represents their four 2/2s and which one represents their three 1/1s without feeling like tokens were a mistake, you know? Actually this is a perfect example of why everyone hates the garbage people who play token decks without bringing their own tokens. Get some paper and a sharpie or get hosed. Mox Hombre posted:I don't know, doesn't seem like too much to keep track of. There is a bit of a voltron vibe to it, but even if it's a mutated stack of cards with some keyword counters, you just look at the card during combat and read stuff from top to bottom. And cycling doesn't need any tracking, it's just a one time effect. I think it's harder to keep track of big board states with a bunch of dorky creatures and a million tokens than it is keeping track of one big monster. So do you pick up the entire pile or one card at a time? Did you put them back in the right order? Did your opponent? Wasn't that guy on top last turn?
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Apr 3, 2020 12:51
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"this mechanic doesn't hold up to your opponent actively cheating" is also not a great argument
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Apr 3, 2020 12:58
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Mutate owns. Godzilla owns. Ikoria owns. Haters vacate.
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Apr 3, 2020 13:08
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Oops, guess I was wrong about the tricycle lands. Must’ve gotten them mixed up with a cycle of these rocks. I guess the rest of the bicycle lands are still possible  Edit: leaker still confident that tricycle lands are in so guess we will see. Tainen fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Apr 3, 2020 |
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Apr 3, 2020 13:10
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Shall be interesting to see if mutate cards have any impact on eternal formats, say giving Walking Ballista things like deathtouch or lifelink or a cheap way to amass counters. And this is a wedge set! Cool!
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Apr 3, 2020 13:11
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LMAO extremely hard at the thread full of “good” magic players complaining about this set being too mechanically interactive and requiring too much memory... How did any of you ever survive Storm, or Dredge, or... This set looks better than anything we’ve had since before War of the Spark. Eldraine broke the entire game in half, Theros was a big wet fart, and we finally get truly exciting cards with fun new mechanics and people are just like “ugh it’s too hard to keep track of all my Dinosaur cats, game bad” as if anyone will be playing paper magic in the next 3 months.
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Apr 3, 2020 13:18
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Katana Gomai posted:Actually this is a perfect example of why everyone hates the garbage people who play token decks without bringing their own tokens. Get some paper and a sharpie or get hosed. Yeah I hate dice as tokens, or dice on tokens to signify numbers. If I have too many tokens I put the dice in front to avoid confusion with +1/+1 counters. And if I don't have the right token I put a piece of paper in a sleeve to make a drat token. Clear boardststes are important
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Apr 3, 2020 13:19
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Am I right in thinking the Buy-a-Box card only has a Godzilla version so no copies with its rules-official name will exist? That’s a bit weird.
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Apr 3, 2020 13:23
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 This looks crazy good Bringing back both Knight of Ebon Legion and Dreadhorde butcher with bonus keywords? Bringing back Mayhem Devil with Deathtouch?
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Apr 3, 2020 13:31
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Rinkles posted:Funny because with the cards laid out like that, I’d assume they would take the power and toughness of the bottom card Imagine looking over your shoulder at Magic dad to check if he's ok with the cards you're using
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Apr 3, 2020 13:48
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I’m gonna stack my cards perpendicular to the base mutant instead of underneath, so that the P/T base creature is normal and all the other abilities are sticking out the side. This is a direct and violent response to people who play lands out front , the actual worst of us.
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Apr 3, 2020 13:50
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flatluigi posted:"this mechanic doesn't hold up to your opponent actively cheating" is also not a great argument gotta eliminate the drop step in case my opponent draws two cards
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Apr 3, 2020 13:52
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Lone Goat posted:nice meltdown
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Apr 3, 2020 13:53
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fatherboxx posted:
Seems excellent, there's not much that won't wear deathtouch and menace together really well. Would be nice if there were good black 2-drops right now, but a couple of KOTEL would be fine.
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Apr 3, 2020 14:03
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I thought Eldraine was cool as hell (shame about Oko), Theros was fine. Not excellent, not terrible, a perfectly serviceable set with the requisite number of cool cards in it. This one is too soon to tell, but 3B for an instant speed kill spell at common (with upside!) is a good sign for limited.
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Apr 3, 2020 14:06
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