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Many other games have already done it really well and it seems like a massive cop out to say that Valve isn't capable of doing at least as good of a job
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Apr 3, 2020 21:25
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honestly i can't tell who is saying, "this game is exceptional, i just wish they did even more of this one specific thing," and, "i want to be nit picky over the extremely popular well received thing"
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Apr 3, 2020 21:27
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Tweak posted:honestly i can't tell who is saying, "this game is exceptional, i just wish they did even more of this one specific thing," and, "i want to be nit picky over the extremely popular well received thing" My personal opinion is that in VR a lot of very specific and seemingly nitpicky things are the difference between making a video game that happens to be in VR and making something that justifies the use of VR in making the world feel like an alternative plausible reality, and the second thing is what I actually want and care about and what I think will make VR successful long term
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Apr 3, 2020 21:29
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at the risk of sounding disingenuous, did this aspect of HL:A ruin the whole VR gaming experience or just make it not up to the level of the acclaimed success it is being touted as?
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Apr 3, 2020 21:31
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Tweak posted:honestly i can't tell who is saying, "this game is exceptional, i just wish they did even more of this one specific thing," and, "i want to be nit picky over the extremely popular well received thing" I've said before it doesn't ruin the game, its still easily in my top 5 VR games, but its also without a doubt the one aspect that brings the game down the most. Its a big glaring flaw in an otherwise great project.
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Apr 3, 2020 21:32
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I'm sure it's both. Taken as a whole, Half-Life Alyx is a fantastic game with exceptional writing, story beats, design and production values. It's by Valve so it gets the one-two punch of the best playtesting ever and also to ride on the hype that's in-built to being a Half-Life game. I personally think its is the best Half-Life game, and it's my favorite VR game. Lots of other people have said the same. If you are more on team Oculus, or just in the realm of 'PUSH IT FORWARD' as you grit your teeth free moving at the speed of light, it would be easy to be more negative on it because of the fact that stuff like Stormlands gets overlooked. Or your favorite jankfest that is Boneworks. The only thing I want from Alyx is 'more', and, failing that, mod tools so people can really gently caress with things. IF Valve decides to SDK with Alyx like the did the OG Half-Life we can see all sorts of rich content that we saw when the modding scene for Half-Life was starting up. Maybe, possibly. We won't ever get that with Facebook.
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Apr 3, 2020 21:32
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It's also not fair to say it's a 2016 era game like one person said, when 2016 was the time when developers were saying it was impossible to do continuous movement and turning because it would make people constantly throw up.
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Apr 3, 2020 21:32
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KakerMix posted:I'm sure it's both. How did this turn into an oculus/facebook rant?
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Apr 3, 2020 21:35
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Tweak posted:at the risk of sounding disingenuous, did this aspect of HL:A ruin the whole VR gaming experience or just make it not up to the level of the acclaimed success it is being touted as? Kind of both? Every time I hit one of those hitches it's like going over a pothole with no suspension. It doesn't ruin the whole thing but it absolutely hurts and shocks me out of the game. I still finished it and I think it's a good game, but I think that this is a case where people are going to sour on those aspects over time as they get exposed to VR games with smoother and better made-for-VR mechanics. As an example, I think Lone Echo has aged superbly and I don't think Alyx will. Alyx's visuals and world building are phenomenal and are what made the game worth playing overall for me. Without those I would've quit after one session.
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Apr 3, 2020 21:35
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HL:Alyx isn't as amazing as everyone is making it out to be. This guy put it perfectly.Neddy Seagoon posted:Half-Life: Alyx is an amazing VR masterpiece circa 2016.
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Apr 3, 2020 21:49
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Tom Guycot posted:How did this turn into an oculus/facebook rant? Stormlands and Lone Echo are Oculus games?  Lemming posted:As an example, I think Lone Echo has aged superbly and I don't think Alyx will. Alyx's visuals and world building are phenomenal and are what made the game worth playing overall for me. Without those I would've quit after one session. See?
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Apr 3, 2020 22:20
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Kaker, I have nothing but love for you, but its really coming across like some weird playground nintendo vs sega thing when you're trying to imply the only reason someone might have an issue with the game is some ulterior motive. Its a good game, it can just be a good game and still have flaws. People not thinking its perfect the way it is isn't because of some sinister motivations outside the game itself.
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Apr 3, 2020 22:25
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Jack Trades posted:HL:Alyx isn't as amazing as everyone is making it out to be. This guy put it perfectly. I think it's amazing because I have no loving tolerance for Boneworks-style nauseating poo poo. For someone who wants to just teleport around and have the gun stuck to their hand it's one of the most comfortable VR experiences, and all the polish went into great set-pieces, scripting/pacing, and leisurely exploration and not stuff I don't care about like kinematics and finicky jungle-gym stuff. Basically if it's a step back, it's a step I'm happy they took.
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Apr 3, 2020 22:31
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Tom Guycot posted:Kaker, I have nothing but love for you, but its really coming across like some weird playground nintendo vs sega thing when you're trying to imply the only reason someone might have an issue with the game is some ulterior motive. yea it’s definitely more akin to, “i liked vr before it was cool”
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Apr 3, 2020 22:32
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There's nothing better than trying to have a good faith argument and try to back up all of my points and have it dismissed as just being a hipster/and or fanboy, what a fun discussion
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Apr 3, 2020 22:33
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maybe if it was still 2016
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Apr 3, 2020 22:36
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Tweak posted:yea it’s definitely more akin to, “i liked vr before it was cool” 
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Apr 3, 2020 22:40
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It's just a loving game you nerds, play a different one if you don't like it
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Apr 3, 2020 22:45
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"Only hipster elitists prefer more features in their games instead of less."
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Apr 3, 2020 22:46
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I'm only on chapter 8 so maybe it comes up at the end, but right now I'm really sad I don't get the gravity. That just seems like it's built for a VR.
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Apr 3, 2020 22:46
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Tom Guycot posted:Again, every single other VR action game manages to holster weapons without issue. I have hosed up holsters in sairento and boneworks constantly. It is I, the guy for whom the wrist mount was made! I think it is because I am like all back compared to other people maybe? But put thing in right holster and what do you know it fell to the floor.
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Apr 3, 2020 22:48
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Tweak posted:honestly i can't tell who is saying, "this game is exceptional, i just wish they did even more of this one specific thing," and, "i want to be nit picky over the extremely popular well received thing" for me, its a great game and im loving playing it, It has some things that I wish it did better. I only gripe on the things i wish it did better because i want it to be the perfect masterpiece it deserves to be. if someone walked up to me and said should i buy HL:Alyx I'd yell emphatically in their face yes.
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Apr 3, 2020 22:50
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bizwank posted:It's just a loving game you nerds, play a different one if you don't like it I'm pretty sure we all like the game, that doesn't mean we can't discuss what parts we found disappointing. This is a thread for discussing VR, it's not exclusively for circle-jerking.
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Apr 3, 2020 22:54
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Jack Trades posted:Stormland (IMO best VR action gameplay to date) lets you carry 4 guns and I literally never had an issue with picking out the wrong gun in that game ever. Both hips and behind both shoulders. Has anyone been able to make Stormland not suck with reVive yet?
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Apr 3, 2020 23:22
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lol you guys my argument was that Alyx doesn't need to impress us, VR havers. We were in this poo poo before it was cool (as was said). I was pointing out that if you feel like games such as Stormlands or Lone Echo pushed VR forward, then Alyx comes out and everyone says it's the best BUT you feel it's a regression compared to games that have already come out you might have a much easier time being critical of Alyx and Valve. I bring up Oculus games because there wasn't anyone actually producing games that could even be thought of as AAA, right? Boneworks is cool but is a weird euro-jank Stalker-like experience. Who besides Oculus was making anything like Alyx before Valve? I can respect Oculus' games while being critical of how they sell them.
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Apr 3, 2020 23:28
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Tip posted:I'm pretty sure we all like the game, that doesn't mean we can't discuss what parts we found disappointing. This is a thread for discussing VR, it's not exclusively for circle-jerking.
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Apr 3, 2020 23:30
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I have a feeling that the people saying alyx is a 2016 game weren't around for games in 2016
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Apr 3, 2020 23:49
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Cojawfee posted:I have a feeling that the people saying alyx is a 2016 game weren't around for games in 2016 Games like Arizona Sunshine? 
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Apr 3, 2020 23:54
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bizwank posted:Personal attacks are not "discussing", which is strictly what I found objectionable. Skimming through the closest thing I can find to a personal attack is you jumping in and calling people nerds. Cojawfee posted:It's also not fair to say it's a 2016 era game like one person said, when 2016 was the time when developers were saying it was impossible to do continuous movement and turning because it would make people constantly throw up. Cojawfee posted:I have a feeling that the people saying alyx is a 2016 game weren't around for games in 2016 Maybe you weren't around in 2016? There were games with smooth locomotion and free movement including Arizona Sunshine and The Climb.
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Apr 4, 2020 00:00
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I was around in 2016, I'm the OP of the previous VR thread...
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Apr 4, 2020 00:02
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Arizona Sunshine let you hold your gun with your left hand if you wanted to open a door with your right hand.  Also you could holster your gun in that game. Jack Trades fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Apr 4, 2020 |
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Apr 4, 2020 00:06
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Tip posted:Maybe you weren't around in 2016? There were games with smooth locomotion and free movement including Arizona Sunshine and The Climb. Didn't Arizona Sunshine release with teleport only at first, and it took them until 2017 to add smooth?
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Apr 4, 2020 00:08
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I specifically remember wishing games had smooth movement when I got my Vive, which was I started doing experiments in UE4 to try it out.
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Apr 4, 2020 00:13
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Lemming posted:Games like Arizona Sunshine? Arizona Sunshine, Onward, Robo Recall, Dead & Buried, were all around in 2016 and had holsters on the body. Like, thats the only thing thats making me scratch my head in all this, it feels like people are all of a sudden saying holsters are now some strange experimental only for hard core VR users pushing boundaries kind of feature. EDIT: And I mean, as far as smooth movement, I remember at launch stuff like Adr1ft, Time Machine VR, Technolust, Fated, Dead Secret, and others that were smooth. Its not like it was some rare thing back then, or even as far back as the tuscany demo and stuff. Tom Guycot fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Apr 4, 2020 |
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Apr 4, 2020 00:25
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Tom Guycot posted:Arizona Sunshine, Onward, Robo Recall, Dead & Buried, were all around in 2016 and had holsters on the body. My hot take is that Alyx is basically a triple A version of Arizona Sunshine. Very similar in design in a lot of ways, especially in how it's a linear setpiece driven single player FPS game, all the way down to being designed around teleportation and then having smooth locomotion added in late/after the game launched. Alyx is obviously on another level, but still
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Apr 4, 2020 00:48
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Lemming posted:My hot take is that Alyx is basically a triple A version of Arizona Sunshine. Very similar in design in a lot of ways, especially in how it's a linear setpiece driven single player FPS game, all the way down to being designed around teleportation and then having smooth locomotion added in late/after the game launched. Alyx is obviously on another level, but still I don't think they have very much to tie them together, aside from being single player FPS games. Arizona Sunshine is much less focused on telling a story and environments tend to be very sparse. It's about as similar to Alyx as Half-Life 2 is to a Call of Duty campaign - sure, it's the same genre, but they're not doing the same thing within that genre.
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Apr 4, 2020 00:54
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Tom Guycot posted:Arizona Sunshine, Onward, Robo Recall, Dead & Buried, were all around in 2016 and had holsters on the body. It's not that either of these things are crazy and unheard of, but that for what Valve is wanting to do with Alyx - an accessible AAA VR title - they felt that teleportation and button weapon switching made more sense than physical holsters or designing around smooth movement. I'm not particularly convinced smooth movement is any more immersive than teleportation anyway, unless you ride a segway around everywhere.
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Apr 4, 2020 00:56
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Pierson posted:My headset finally arrived and it's incredible, everything I hoped for and more. I tried Alyx first thing and after experimenting with the movement options I did get pretty queasy with the 'regular' movement, so I'm gonna stick with teleporting. Is it better to slowly acclimate myself with just a few minutes at first and play for longer periods only after I've gotten used to it? I played the majority of Lone Echo sitting down and don’t feel I missed a thing
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Apr 4, 2020 00:59
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cargohills posted:I don't think they have very much to tie them together, aside from being single player FPS games. Arizona Sunshine is much less focused on telling a story and environments tend to be very sparse. It's about as similar to Alyx as Half-Life 2 is to a Call of Duty campaign - sure, it's the same genre, but they're not doing the same thing within that genre. Yeah, that's why I called it the AAA version. It's obviously on another level, they're just similar mechanically in a lot of ways. There's a similar thread between them that approaches your encounter in similar ways, though there are obviously still huge differences. Stuff like the floating hands, in the case of Arizona Sunshine they also do the thing where your hand disappears when you grab an object which was done for similar reasons people think you shouldn't have IK visible right now, ie that seeing the hand grab it in a way you're not grabbing IRL is immersion breaking (which I disagree with (also here's where a Job Sim dev talks about why they do it that way, and they even use a similar justification as in that Valve interview before where they say it's more of an issue for spectators and not a big deal for the person in VR)) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjc7AJwZ4DI&t=1795s I haven't really been able to articulate the mindset that I am disagreeing with but I think it probably comes down to the difference between "What can we get away with doing in VR? What doesn't make things worse, how can we take advantage of the disconnect that the players will tolerate?" and "How do we enhance the feeling of connectedness and groundedness in the world with the player? How do we contribute to a believable illusion that you're somewhere you're not?" and I think doing the second thing is much, much harder but it's unbelievably powerful when done well in VR Edit: I don't have a better way of phrasing it but I don't want to be unfair to what I listed as that first mindset, I don't think it's a negative thing that anyone's doing or anyone's being cynical about it, I just don't know how to phrase it in a way that doesn't seem like I'm denigrating it (even though I am because I disagree with it and I think it's wrong (but I'm really not because I don't think people are actively thinking that, they're just trying to do other things and figuring out things that work well enough to serve their other goals, I think people should just be prioritizing that sense of reality and groundedness and consistent set of rules in fantastic universes more than they do)) Lemming fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Apr 4, 2020 |
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Apr 4, 2020 01:03
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cargohills posted:It's not that either of these things are crazy and unheard of, but that for what Valve is wanting to do with Alyx - an accessible AAA VR title - they felt that teleportation and button weapon switching made more sense than physical holsters or designing around smooth movement. I'm not particularly convinced smooth movement is any more immersive than teleportation anyway, unless you ride a segway around everywhere. I think there's an aspect of "learned immersion"; smoothly sliding around isn't realistic, but we've been moving around like that in first person flat screen games for a long time so we've become accustomed to finding that immersive. Teleport movement doesn't have that aspect unless you've spent the last ten years playing first person point-and-click adventures.
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Apr 4, 2020 01:04
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